Cross-examination of Andrea Mazzola (afternoon, part 2)

📄 Cross-examination of Andrea Mazzola (afternoon, part 2) — Tuesday, April 25, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\APR\25\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-ANDREA-MA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 61 of 167

◀ Court ruling clarification Discovery motions ▶

Witness: Andrea Mazzola
Examiner: Peter Neufeld
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, April 25, 1995 • Utterances: 757

Defense attorney Peter Neufeld conducts a methodical cross-examination of LAPD criminalist Andrea Mazzola using a prosecution-produced demonstration videotape (shot April 4, 1995) that backfired badly. Frame by frame, Neufeld compels Mazzola to acknowledge that during the demonstration she repeatedly rested her right hand on dirty concrete, transferred that contamination to her tweezers and swatches, dropped swatches on the ground, and allowed moisture from the control swatch to visibly spread into contact with the bloodstain — all while never changing gloves between stains. He also establishes that the prosecution's still-photo demonstration board omitted the dropped swatches and documentation steps shown on the videotape.

# 1 THE COURT:

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect I think that we've been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Let me make sure. Yep. They're all here. All right. Andrea Mazzola is again on the witness stand undergoing cross-examination by Mr. Neufeld. Miss Mazzola, good afternoon again.

# 2 MS. MAZZOLA:

Good afternoon.

# 3 THE COURT:

You are reminded you are still under oath. Mr. Neufeld, you may continue.

# 4 MR. NEUFELD:

Thank you.

# 5 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, again calling your attention to collecting a stain demonstration board with the still photographs on it, would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that the still photographs depicted--shown on this board, because they are still photographs, don't capture the continuous motion involved in the entire process of bloodstain collection?

# 6 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's argumentative.

# 7 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 8 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 9 MR. NEUFELD:

And when you first set out to do this demonstration for Mr. Goldberg and the Prosecution, did the Prosecution attempt to record this demonstration with a videotape as well?

# 10 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 11 MR. NEUFELD:

And the video was shot at the same time that the still photographs were taken?

# 12 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 13 MR. NEUFELD:

And it was your job during this videotape demonstration to act out the role of the criminalist collecting bloodstains?

# 14 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 15 MR. NEUFELD:

I mean this wasn't a real case, right?

# 16 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 17 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Let me put this down now.

# 18 (Brief pause.)

# 19 THE COURT:

And, Mr. Cochran, could you just flip that one around, please?

# 20 MR. COCHRAN:

I will, your Honor.

# 21 THE COURT:

Thank you.

# 22 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, SID has its own still photographers, correct?

# 23 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 24 MR. NEUFELD:

and SID even has personnel who can take videotapes as well, right?

# 25 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's irrelevant.

# 26 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 27 MR. NEUFELD:

When this videotape was being made of you doing the demonstration, Miss Mazzola, was it your understanding that it was being produced for the purpose of showing it to the jury during the trial?

# 28 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's irrelevant.

# 29 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 30 MS. MAZZOLA:

That was a possibility. I don't think they came right out and said it would be shown. It was a possibility.

# 31 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola--

# 32 THE COURT:

Wait. Let her finish the answer.

# 33 MR. NEUFELD:

I thought she had. I apologize, Miss Mazzola. Go ahead.

# 34 MS. MAZZOLA:

Be my guest.

# 35 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, no. Is there more?

# 36 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 37 MR. NEUFELD:

What was your understanding--when you were engaged in this demonstration for the District Attorney and the videocamera is rolling, what is your understanding of what the purpose of this videotape was going to be?

# 38 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant.

# 39 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 40 MS. MAZZOLA:

That it might be shown to the jury.

# 41 MR. GOLDBERG:

And so while the District Attorney was producing this videotape, you tried to perform the task of criminalist to the best of your ability; is that correct?

# 42 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 43 MR. NEUFELD:

And knowing that the videotape was meant to represent the process of bloodstain collection as practiced by you, you also tried to make it as realistic as possible; did you not?

# 44 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 45 MR. NEUFELD:

And is the tape--have you seen the videotape?

# 46 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 47 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, while you were performing the demonstration--I'm sorry. Withdrawn. Did Mr. Goldberg ever tell you at any time either during the videotape or after the videotape that he was concerned that the videotape revealed some common accidents?

# 48 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor--your Honor--

# 49 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 50 MR. GOLDBERG:

May we approach?

# 51 THE COURT:

No.

# 52 MR. NEUFELD:

Did Mr. Goldberg or any Prosecutor ever tell you that it was important to convey to this jury how simple crime scene--I'm sorry--bloodstain collection is?

# 53 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant. Calls for hearsay.

# 54 THE COURT:

Overruled. You can answer the question. Was that ever said to you?

# 55 MS. MAZZOLA:

Not to show how simple it was. Just to show the procedure.

# 56 MR. NEUFELD:

Did any Prosecutor ever express to you the importance of conveying to this jury that it's actually--that it is a simple procedure?

# 57 MR. GOLDBERG:

Asked and answered.

# 58 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 59 MS. MAZZOLA:

It is a simple procedure, but that--

# 60 MR. NEUFELD:

I didn't ask that.

# 61 MS. MAZZOLA:

--that was not the main issue.

# 62 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. I'm not asking what was the main issue. Was it a secondary issue that was conveyed to you by the Prosecutors, that they wanted to show or suggest to the jury--

# 63 THE COURT:

Counsel, secondary, tertiary, I mean where are we going to go with this? Was it discussed by any Prosecutor with you to show that how simple a process it was?

# 64 MS. MAZZOLA:

No, I don't believe so.

# 65 THE COURT:

Proceed.

# 66 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, during your prep sessions with Mr. Goldberg, did he tell you that there was a chance that this videotape might be played for the jury?

# 67 MR. GOLDBERG:

Asked and answered.

# 68 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 69 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't remember if he said there was a chance it might.

# 70 MR. NEUFELD:

Are you aware of the fact that on the videotape you are depicted dropping swatches?

# 71 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 72 MR. NEUFELD:

And were you at all concerned that the videotape depicted you dropping swatches?

# 73 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 74 MR. NEUFELD:

But you were aware of it?

# 75 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 76 MR. NEUFELD:

And during your prep sessions with the Prosecutors in this case, didn't they tell you that on direct examination, you should admit that you dropped swatches occasionally in the event that this videotape is played to the jury? Didn't that come out?

# 77 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, it's compound.

# 78 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 79 MR. NEUFELD:

In the prep sessions with Mr. Goldberg and the other Prosecutors, didn't they tell you that there was a chance that this videotape might get played for this jury by the Defense?

# 80 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes, there might a chance.

# 81 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And you also knew that on this videotape, you are depicted dropping swatches; isn't that correct?

# 82 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 83 MR. NEUFELD:

And during the prep session with Mr. Goldberg and other Prosecutors, was it discussed that you should readily acknowledge occasionally dropping swatches at crime scenes?

# 84 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know if they brought it out in the prep sessions. It's--

# 85 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, do you recall on direct examination Mr. Goldberg asking you about whether you dropped swatches?

# 86 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes, I--

# 87 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's irrelevant.

# 88 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 89 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe so.

# 90 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, during those prep sessions, you said some of them lasted as much as five hours?

# 91 MS. MAZZOLA:

It was not a continuous five hours.

# 92 MR. NEUFELD:

I understand that. You said some of the sessions lasted overall as many as five hours at the Prosecutor's office; is that right?

# 93 MS. MAZZOLA:

I was at the Prosecutor's office for upwards of five hours, but not talking to them the entire time.

# 94 MR. NEUFELD:

On different days?

# 95 MS. MAZZOLA:

Right.

# 96 MR. NEUFELD:

And on some of those days, they would ask you questions that they intended to ask you once you took the witness stand; did they not?

# 97 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 98 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. Well, was one of the questions that you discussed during those prep sessions a question involving you dropping swatches during a crime scene collection?

# 99 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know if that was during one of the prep sessions.

# 100 MR. NEUFELD:

Are you saying that the very first time you ever heard that question asked was when you took the witness stand here? A I believe it was mentioned when we were taking the photographs for the collection demonstration.

# 101 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. At this time, your Honor, I would like to play the videotape.

# 102 THE COURT:

All right. Let's mark it.

# 103 MR. NEUFELD:

What's next in order?

# 104 THE COURT:

1117.

# 105 (Deft's 1117 for id = videotape)

# 106 THE COURT:

Proceed.

# 107 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 108 MR. NEUFELD:

Your Honor, I've never done this before in front of the jury. So there may be a couple of times where I ask to go back and slow it down and please indulge me a little bit.

# 109 THE COURT:

Well, you've seen your colleagues.

# 110 MR. NEUFELD:

Exactly. All right.

# 111 (At 3:29 P.M., People's exhibit 1117, a videotape, was played.)

# 112 MR. NEUFELD:

Stop it a second.

# 113 MR. NEUFELD:

By the way, did you notice the date at the beginning of this?

# 114 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 115 MR. NEUFELD:

It says 4-4-95. Does that refresh your recollection as to when this videotape was made?

# 116 MS. MAZZOLA:

Not really.

# 117 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Do me a favor. I'm sorry, your Honor. Could you just go back to the beginning one more time? Can you stop there a minute?

# 118 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, is that your--you're wearing leather gloves, correct?

# 119 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 120 MR. NEUFELD:

And it's your right hand that's now resting on the ground, isn't it?

# 121 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe so.

# 122 MR. NEUFELD:

Can you just back up a few frames? That's good. Thank you.

# 123 MR. NEUFELD:

Is that your right hand that's resting on the ground?

# 124 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 125 MR. NEUFELD:

Would it be fair to say that the ground there outside on the street is dirty?

# 126 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 127 THE COURT:

You want to describe--unfortunately, Mr. Neufeld, since we don't have a real-time counter and if you're going to isolate particular items, you're going to need to describe them, either print them or describe them.

# 128 MR. NEUFELD:

This will be 1117-A.

# 129 (Deft's 1117-A for id = printout)

# 130 MR. NEUFELD:

And, Miss Mazzola, just before this shot where you put the right hand down on the dirty ground, did you clean the tweezers?

# 131 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 132 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Now, can you continue?

# 133 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola--

# 134 MR. NEUFELD:

Stop again.

# 135 MR. NEUFELD:

--did you just take the tweezers and put them--and move them from the left hand and transfer them to the right hand?

# 136 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 137 MR. NEUFELD:

And that's the right hand that you just had put down on the dirty ground; is that correct?

# 138 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 139 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. One moment.

# 140 (Brief pause.)

# 141 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Continue.

# 142 MR. NEUFELD:

And are you now pouring swatches out onto the cap?

# 143 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 144 MR. NEUFELD:

Freeze there for a second. Could you just go back about 10 frames or five seconds? Right there.

# 145 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, at that particular moment, Miss Mazzola, was a swatch about to fall out of the cap and you prevented it from falling out by catching it or bringing your right pinkie into contact with that cap?

# 146 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know. If one was going to fall out, I would just let it fall.

# 147 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, can you back up a second? All right. Little bit more. Okay. Would you show that little sequence in show motion, please? And just keeping going down then.

# 148 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, at that point, didn't you--

# 149 MR. NEUFELD:

Stop there for a second.

# 150 MR. NEUFELD:

Didn't you just bring your hand down to that cap because a swatch was about to fall out off the cap; and it didn't, you saved it?

# 151 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't believe so because it appears that I'm putting the cap back on the bottle; and if a swatch was in there, I wouldn't turn the cap over because the swatch would fall out anyway.

# 152 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, you were about to put the cap down at that point, right?

# 153 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know.

# 154 MR. NEUFELD:

And there were swatches in the cap?

# 155 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know how many swatches were in the cap.

# 156 MR. NEUFELD:

Can you just back it up five seconds? Let us see this one more time, regular speed. Back, back, back, back a little more. Okay. Now start it.

# 157 MR. NEUFELD:

Didn't you just see you do something with your pinkie, Miss Mazzola, to try to catch something on that cap?

# 158 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know if I was trying to catch something on the cap or what.

# 159 MR. NEUFELD:

But you could have been; is that correct, Miss Mazzola?

# 160 MS. MAZZOLA:

It's a possibility.

# 161 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. And the same hand that you're using to catch that swatch at that point, if that's what you could have been doing, is the same right hand that you had just put down on the dirty ground; is that correct?

# 162 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 163 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Continue.

# 164 MR. NEUFELD:

What you're doing now is, you're making the control swatch?

# 165 MS. MAZZOLA:

That is correct.

# 166 MR. NEUFELD:

Item no. 5?

# 167 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 168 MR. NEUFELD:

And, Miss Mazzola, on the dirty pavement outdoors like this, would you expect to see some kind of dirt or debris on the control swatch?

# 169 MR. GOLDBERG:

Calls for conclusion.

# 170 MR. NEUFELD:

Based on your experience.

# 171 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant.

# 172 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 173 MS. MAZZOLA:

Might, might not.

# 174 MR. NEUFELD:

Hmm?

# 175 MS. MAZZOLA:

Might, might not. I don't know.

# 176 MR. NEUFELD:

Even on an out-door pavement like this, you wouldn't expect to find some dirt?

# 177 MR. GOLDBERG:

Asked and answered.

# 178 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 179 MS. MAZZOLA:

It's a possibility you would find some dirt.

# 180 MR. NEUFELD:

Is it a probability that you would find some dirt, Miss Mazzola?

# 181 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's argumentative.

# 182 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 183 MR. NEUFELD:

Continue, please.

# 184 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, when you put the plastic bag in the envelope at that point, you folded it over to seal it, didn't you?

# 185 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 186 MR. NEUFELD:

And that would retain the moisture in it, wouldn't it?

# 187 MS. MAZZOLA:

It would help keep the swatch from slipping out.

# 188 MR. NEUFELD:

Hold it one second, please.

# 189 MR. NEUFELD:

Other than preventing the swatches from slipping out, by folding over the top of the plastic bag when it's wet inside, that also will--that will also result in preserving the moisture in those swatches, wouldn't it?

# 190 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 191 MR. NEUFELD:

One moment.

# 192 (Brief pause.)

# 193 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 194 MR. NEUFELD:

Could you just back up about--back up. Go a little more. Okay. Now go forward a little bit.

# 195 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, after you make the control swatch, Miss Mazzola, you then clean the tweezers off before you go on to actually collect the bloodstain; is that correct?

# 196 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 197 MR. NEUFELD:

Can you freeze it there for a second?

# 198 MR. NEUFELD:

And what you just did, ma'am, was to pick up--you're going to use that wet wipe or Kleenex to clean the tweezer, right?

# 199 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes. The chem-wipe.

# 200 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. And you just picked up that chem-wipe with the same right hand which you had been resting on the dirty concrete, right?

# 201 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 202 MR. NEUFELD:

One moment.

# 203 (Brief pause.)

# 204 MR. NEUFELD:

Continue, please. Stop.

# 205 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, you just transferred the tweezers that you just cleaned back into the right hand again, didn't you?

# 206 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes. The parts away from the tips.

# 207 MR. NEUFELD:

Can you back up a second? Okay. Go forward.

# 208 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, there you're holding it away from the tips, correct?

# 209 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 210 MR. NEUFELD:

Go ahead. Continue. And now stop.

# 211 MR. NEUFELD:

You moved your fingers further up toward the front of the tweezers, didn't you? Miss Mazzola, isn't the tweezer now completely enclosed in your hand, in your right hand?

# 212 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know if it's entirely enclosed or if my finger is just brought up along the side of it.

# 213 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, your fingers that are brought up along the side of it are the fingers of your right hand that you had just put down on the dirty pavement; isn't that correct?

# 214 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 215 MR. NEUFELD:

Continue.

# 216 MR. NEUFELD:

Now you're pouring more swatches out of the bottle, correct?

# 217 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 218 MR. NEUFELD:

And are some of the swatches falling to the ground and missing the cap?

# 219 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 220 MR. NEUFELD:

Stop for a second. Okay. Continue. Stop there.

# 221 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, do you see some of the swatches that fell to the ground between the bottle and your knee?

# 222 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 223 MR. NEUFELD:

At this time--I noticed last time when you took the cap off the bottle, after you took out a swatch, you put it right back on the bottle, didn't you, last time?

# 224 MS. MAZZOLA:

Sometimes I do, yes.

# 225 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. But this time, you put the cap down, didn't you?

# 226 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 227 MR. NEUFELD:

Is that because you considered for even a moment perhaps putting those swatches that fell to the ground back into the bottle?

# 228 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 229 MR. NEUFELD:

You never considered that even for a moment?

# 230 MS. MAZZOLA:

Never.

# 231 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay.

# 232 (The videotape continues playing.)

# 233 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, when you made this demonstration tape, were you aware of the fact that your right hand had been resting on the dirty concrete?

# 234 MS. MAZZOLA:

No, I don't believe so.

# 235 MR. NEUFELD:

Is this the first time you knew that?

# 236 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 237 MR. NEUFELD:

And, Miss Mazzola, you said you did know, however, that you had dropped swatches during the course of this videotape, right?

# 238 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes. That's correct.

# 239 MR. NEUFELD:

And in fact, comment had been made by others present about the fact that you had dropped swatches; isn't that correct?

# 240 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant, your Honor.

# 241 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 242 MR. NEUFELD:

Well--you also testified on direct examination, Miss Mazzola, that you had never dropped the swatch that had blood on it. Was that your testimony?

# 243 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe so.

# 244 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, had the Prosecutor told you during the prep sessions that it was safe for you to give that answer because we don't have you doing that on the videotape?

# 245 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, this is improper. It's argumentative.

# 246 THE COURT:

Sustained. The jury is to disregard the implication of that question. Proceed.

# 247 MR. NEUFELD:

You also testified, Miss Mazzola, on direct examination that one reason--I'm sorry. Withdrawn. You also testified that at crime scenes, your gloved hand has never touched a bloodstain or wet blood; is that correct?

# 248 MS. MAZZOLA:

That is correct.

# 249 MR. NEUFELD:

But isn't one reason why you wear these protective gloves in the first place is because you could accidentally touch a bloodstain or wet blood?

# 250 MS. MAZZOLA:

We wear them for our own protection because we are around blood.

# 251 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, when you say you wear these gloves for your own protection, Miss Mazzola, isn't that protect--isn't that to protect you from an accidental contact with blood? Isn't that the whole purpose you wear the gloves?

# 252 MS. MAZZOLA:

Blood among other things, yes.

# 253 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. So it's anticipated by the people who taught you at SID to wear gloves that accidental contact between a criminalist and blood does happen from time to time; isn't that correct?

# 254 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 255 MR. NEUFELD:

So when you say that you have never touched blood or a wet bloodstain even with your protected gloves on, what you're really saying is that you've never done it such as that you're aware of it; isn't that correct?

# 256 MR. GOLDBERG:

I think that misstates her testimony.

# 257 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 258 MS. MAZZOLA:

Such that I was aware of, yes.

# 259 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. Now, this is going to be the swatch of the actual evidence, correct?

# 260 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 261 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Could you stop there?

# 262 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, as you see, Miss Mazzola, do you see the--the jury can see it too. Do you see the moist area where you had made the control swatch?

# 263 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 264 MR. NEUFELD:

And do you see that the moisture has run all the way over to the point where it's actually in contact with the bloodstain?

# 265 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know if that is moisture from the control swatch or the pigment of the concrete itself.

# 266 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, I'm--

# 267 MR. NEUFELD:

May we please go back quickly to--reverse, show her just the collection of the control swatch? Back up more. Back, back, back. Back up. Back up before it starts touching it. Back up so it's just off the ground, you know, an inch or so. Okay. Go ahead. Stop. Can you back up? I want to get it just before it makes contact. Stop. Stop.

# 268 MR. NEUFELD:

Now that you see the control swatch just as it's about to hit the control area next to stain no. 5, would you agree that the discoloration we saw later on when you're actually about to lift the bloodstain is moisture from the control swatch?

# 269 MS. MAZZOLA:

Well, it's a little hard to tell. It's possible--

# 270 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, do you actually see any discoloration in the area immediately adjacent to that bloodstain in this picture before you put that wet control swatch on the ground?

# 271 MS. MAZZOLA:

I see the area slightly in front of the swatch between the swatch and the stain itself.

# 272 MR. NEUFELD:

Isn't the area at that point, Miss Mazzola, fairly consistent and not darker, appreciably darker in the area--in the immediate area where you're placing down the control swatch at this point? Isn't that a fair assessment of what's depicted here, ma'am?

# 273 MS. MAZZOLA:

Well, it looks slightly darker to me, but--

# 274 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, could you go forward to where she's about to put down the--yeah. Go a little bit further. Slow it down. In slow-mo. That's right.

# 275 MR. NEUFELD:

Now do you see the discoloration created by the moisture emanating out from the control swatch?

# 276 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 277 MR. NEUFELD:

And that's a different color than the other discolorations in the pavement, isn't it?

# 278 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes, it is.

# 279 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. All right. And you can see even at that point the moisture has almost touched the bloodstain, hasn't it?

# 280 MR. GOLDBERG:

Vague as to almost.

# 281 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 282 MS. MAZZOLA:

There's still separation between the two.

# 283 MR. NEUFELD:

There's still some separation there. Okay.

# 284 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, go forward to the next place where we're about to collect the evidence.

# 285 MR. NEUFELD:

By the way, Miss Mazzola, the swatch that you just picked up could be the same swatch that you had touched with the right hand to help stay in the cap, couldn't it?

# 286 MR. GOLDBERG:

Assumes facts not in evidence.

# 287 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 288 MR. NEUFELD:

Stop.

# 289 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, can you see that the moisture has spread out from the control swatch so it is in fact touching the blood drop stain?

# 290 MS. MAZZOLA:

It appears to be.

# 291 MR. NEUFELD:

And, Miss Mazzola, you're not supposed to do that, are you?

# 292 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's vague as to supposed to.

# 293 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 294 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, when you're instructed--

# 295 THE COURT:

Excuse me, counsel.

# 296 MR. NEUFELD:

I'm withdrawing the question. There was an objection.

# 297 THE COURT:

When I start to rule, let me rule.

# 298 MR. NEUFELD:

Oh, I'm sorry.

# 299 THE COURT:

Overruled. Proceed.

# 300 MS. MAZZOLA:

Would you please--

# 301 MR. NEUFELD:

When you received your instruction on how to collect bloodstain evidence, although you were taught to collect a control close to the bloodstain, you were also taught, Miss Mazzola, not to allow the moisture from the control swatch to come into contact with the bloodstain; isn't that correct?

# 302 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't believe that was ever mentioned.

# 303 MR. NEUFELD:

well, Miss Mazzola, if in fact that swatch itself had been contaminated by your dirty hand, for instance, would the contamination be transferred to the moisture that is emanating out from the swatch? Could that happen?

# 304 MR. GOLDBERG:

It's vague as to which swatch.

# 305 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 306 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know.

# 307 MR. NEUFELD:

You don't know if it could happen?

# 308 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know if it could happen.

# 309 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, if there was dirt on your hand and your hand came into contact with the control swatch, would you agree that it's possible that there could be a transfer of that trace evidence of that contaminant from your glove to the swatch?

# 310 MS. MAZZOLA:

It would be possible.

# 311 MR. NEUFELD:

And would you agree, ma'am, that if that control swatch was moistened with water, that there could be a transfer of trace evidence from the swatch to the water?

# 312 MS. MAZZOLA:

There would be items from the ground in the water, but the bloodstain itself is on the ground. So it's all in the same substrate.

# 313 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, that assumes, does it not, Miss Mazzola, that everywhere on the ground, you have the same contaminants and the same substrate? Isn't that correct?

# 314 MS. MAZZOLA:

That close a substrate would be approximately the same.

# 315 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, when you put your right hand down on the ground, you didn't do that two inches away or one inch away from the blood drop. You did that several feet away, didn't you?

# 316 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 317 MR. NEUFELD:

And if your hand came into contact, the hand that touched the dirty pavement several feet away came into contact with the control swatch, it could contaminate the control swatch with whatever contaminant your right hand came in contact with, couldn't it?

# 318 MS. MAZZOLA:

If the hand came in contact with that particular swatch, yes.

# 319 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And if that swatch then comes into contact with water, the water can pick up that contaminant, can't it?

# 320 MS. MAZZOLA:

A possibility.

# 321 MR. NEUFELD:

And if that water then spreads outward and actually comes into contact with the bloodstain, then the bloodstain can come into contact with the very same contaminant that the right hand initially came into contact with. Isn't that a possibility?

KEY QUOTE

# 322 MS. MAZZOLA:

A possibility, yes.

# 323 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. But it's your testimony that you were never instructed to keep the control swatch moisture not in contact with the bloodstain? They never taught you that at the SID mini academy?

# 324 MS. MAZZOLA:

It was never a strong point that was brought up.

# 325 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, was it a small point that was brought up?

# 326 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't remember.

# 327 MR. NEUFELD:

So is it--best of your recollection, it could have been, but you just don't recall?

# 328 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't recall.

# 329 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, as you sit here today, would it make sense to you as a criminalist not to let the moisture from the control swatch come into contact with the bloodstain?

# 330 MS. MAZZOLA:

That would be preferable.

KEY QUOTE

# 331 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Can you go forward, please.

# 332 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, you're having some difficulty in this swatch absorbing the bloodstain?

# 333 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 334 MR. NEUFELD:

One moment.

# 335 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 336 MR. NEUFELD:

Would you just back up? Could you go forward? Can you go forward slowly?

# 337 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, at that point, Miss Mazzola, did you just move the swatch into the area of moisture immediately adjacent to the bloodstain where some of the control moisture was?

# 338 MS. MAZZOLA:

I can't tell if the swatch was touching the moisture or not.

# 339 MR. NEUFELD:

Did it appear to you that it was though?

# 340 MR. NEUFELD:

Can you just back up three seconds? Okay. Now just go forward slow.

# 341 MR. NEUFELD:

Did it appear to you at that point that it's touching the moisture adjacent to the stain?

# 342 MS. MAZZOLA:

It's still hard to tell if it was actually touching.

# 343 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Just go forward. Let's go forward in regular speed.

# 344 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, in this particular demonstration, you were asked only to make one swatch of this particular bloodstain, correct?

# 345 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 346 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, in the--this case, in some of the blood stains, you made as many as a half dozen blood swatches?

# 347 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't remember exactly how many, but on some of them, it was more than one.

# 348 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. And would you agree, ma'am, that if you did, for instance, four or five swatches, there's four or five times the opportunity to make mistakes as there is in a single swatch?

# 349 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative.

# 350 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 351 MR. NEUFELD:

In this particular demonstration, you're having some difficulty getting blood to be absorbed onto that swatch?

# 352 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes. The stain was--

# 353 MR. NEUFELD:

That sometimes happens with--

# 354 THE COURT:

Wait, wait.

# 355 MR. NEUFELD:

Sorry.

# 356 MS. MAZZOLA:

To dry the blood, since it was so cold, they put a heater on the blood spots and it more or less baked it onto the concrete.

# 357 MR. NEUFELD:

And you're putting it in the coin envelope now?

# 358 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 359 MR. NEUFELD:

And the coin envelope is not sealed, is it?

# 360 MS. MAZZOLA:

No. Not sealed.

# 361 MR. NEUFELD:

Now you're cleaning the tweezers again?

# 362 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 363 MR. NEUFELD:

And again, Miss Mazzola, you're holding the tweezers in your right hand now?

# 364 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 365 MR. NEUFELD:

Same right hand that touched the ground, correct?

# 366 MS. MAZZOLA:

My right hand.

# 367 MR. NEUFELD:

Yes. And is that your right hand hitting the ground again?

# 368 MS. MAZZOLA:

My hand was on the ground, yes.

# 369 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Notice you're stretching.

# 370 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 371 MR. NEUFELD:

Is it tiring bending down there to do even a single swatch?

# 372 MS. MAZZOLA:

No. When it is extremely cold, my left knee tends to tighten up a bit.

KEY QUOTE

# 373 MR. NEUFELD:

And in this instance, you're actually brushing away the swatches that you actually dropped to the ground?

# 374 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 375 MR. NEUFELD:

By the way, Mr. Yamauchi and Dennis Fung were also present during this?

# 376 MS. MAZZOLA:

Mr. Yamauchi was.

# 377 MR. NEUFELD:

And did Mr. Yamauchi--I thought you said Dennis Fung was there as well.

# 378 MR. NEUFELD:

Would you hold it a second, please?

# 379 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe he was back and forth between the demonstration area and the lab itself.

# 380 MR. NEUFELD:

One moment.

# 381 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 382 MR. NEUFELD:

Just back up a second, please.

# 383 MR. NEUFELD:

And when you actually collected the swatch, were your knees on the ground?

# 384 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe so.

# 385 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Can you back up? Back up to just where she's about to get up.

# 386 MR. NEUFELD:

And are you now putting your left hand on your knee?

# 387 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 388 MR. NEUFELD:

And that's the knee that was just on the pavement?

# 389 MS. MAZZOLA:

I think it was on the pavement.

# 390 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And when--you're wiping the ground now with your right hand, correct?

# 391 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 392 MR. NEUFELD:

And you didn't change gloves before you went on to the next swatching, did you?

# 393 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 394 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Hold it one second. You're going forward. What are you doing?

# 395 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 396 MR. NEUFELD:

And there are more swatches that have dropped to the ground again, haven't there?

# 397 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 398 MR. NEUFELD:

Again, your right hand with the tweezers is going down to the dirty ground?

# 399 MS. MAZZOLA:

Is on the ground.

# 400 MR. NEUFELD:

Would you agree that the pavement outside where you're shooting this has dirt on it, ma'am?

# 401 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 402 MR. NEUFELD:

By the way, Miss Mazzola--

# 403 MR. NEUFELD:

Let's stop for one second.

# 404 MR. NEUFELD:

I notice in the demonstration board, when you're actually--when they show you either using the control swatch or swatch on a piece of evidence, you don't see any of the swatches that are lying on the ground; is that correct?

# 405 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe so.

# 406 MR. NEUFELD:

That they don't show any swatches lying on the ground?

# 407 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 408 MR. NEUFELD:

After you finished making this videotape, did the Prosecutor ask you to repeat the exercise again?

# 409 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 410 MR. NEUFELD:

Continue the tape.

# 411 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, you now took out a coin envelope; is that right?

# 412 MS. MAZZOLA:

That is correct.

# 413 MR. NEUFELD:

And that's because you were asked to demonstrate how it is that you put documentation on the coin envelope that you're going to put these swatches in; isn't that right?

# 414 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant, your Honor.

# 415 THE COURT:

She can describe what she's doing, counsel, not the instructions.

# 416 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. Could you stop just a second? Back up a little bit. I want you to do this in slow motion. Okay, just to--go forward now.

# 417 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, when you're going to--

# 418 MR. NEUFELD:

Can you stop for just one second?

# 419 MR. NEUFELD:

When you are documenting a coin envelope in the demonstration, do you put down the item number?

# 420 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 421 MR. NEUFELD:

And when you put down the item number, do you use the number sign before the number?

# 422 MS. MAZZOLA:

Sometimes, yes.

# 423 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And do you also on the coin envelope write down your initials as the person who was collecting this item?

# 424 MR. GOLDBERG:

Vague as to the videotape.

# 425 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 426 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't believe I did on this.

# 427 MR. NEUFELD:

Is that what you were taught to do, Miss Mazzola?

# 428 MS. MAZZOLA:

I can't remember if we were taught that or if it's something we pick up. I'm not sure.

# 429 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, if you pick something up because you learn it from more senior criminalists at the first crime scenes that you attended, that would be one way of learning this information, correct?

# 430 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 431 MR. NEUFELD:

Another way of learning it would be because somebody at the SID mini academy explained to you this is the way to do it; is that correct?

# 432 MS. MAZZOLA:

That could be another way.

# 433 MR. NEUFELD:

Either way, you are learning to do something a particular way; isn't that correct?

# 434 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 435 MR. NEUFELD:

So the question, ma'am, is, were you taught one way or the other, that when you are collecting an item, as you are in this picture, to write down your initials as well as the item number on the coin envelope?

# 436 MS. MAZZOLA:

As I believe I said earlier, some criminalists put their initials on the envelopes. Some don't.

# 437 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola--

# 438 MR. NEUFELD:

Let's play this tape forward now in slow-mo. Just bring it up regular speed until she's about to start writing on it.

# 439 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, I want you to look very carefully at the movement of your hand, of your right hand as it writes on the envelope, okay?

# 440 MS. MAZZOLA:

Okay.

# 441 MR. NEUFELD:

Since you can't see what you're writing, you just have to look at the movement. You're writing something there, correct?

# 442 MS. MAZZOLA:

That appears to be, yes.

# 443 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And you picked up the pen. Now you're writing something else?

# 444 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 445 MR. NEUFELD:

And now you picked up the pen. Now you're writing something else?

# 446 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 447 MR. NEUFELD:

So, Miss Mazzola, there are three different things that you wrote on that envelope, correct? A it appears that I have the coin envelope and the plastic envelope there together.

# 448 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, did you write three different things with your hand in that down position?

# 449 MS. MAZZOLA:

It appears so.

# 450 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And, Miss Mazzola, one of the things that you were taught to write was the number, correct?

# 451 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 452 MR. NEUFELD:

Second thing you were taught to write is the number sign; is that correct?

# 453 MS. MAZZOLA:

We were not taught that.

# 454 MR. NEUFELD:

So sometimes you do that and sometimes you don't?

# 455 MS. MAZZOLA:

I tend to do that.

# 456 MR. NEUFELD:

You tend to do that?

# 457 MS. MAZZOLA:

I tend to do that.

# 458 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. That's the second thing. The third thing--the third thing, Miss Mazzola--and that would be, the first thing you were doing there was actually writing your initial; isn't that correct?

# 459 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know if that was my initials or not.

# 460 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, when you write your initials "Am," don't you write it in one continuous motion?

# 461 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 462 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. Let's--one second. Continue. Continue regular speed.

# 463 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, by the way, Miss Mazzola, you were--you wrote out the envelope and put documentation on it because that's a standard practice of yours, correct?

# 464 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 465 MR. NEUFELD:

Yet, on the demonstration board, there is no photograph of you actually filling out the envelope, is there?

# 466 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know.

# 467 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, can you freeze it just one second?

# 468 MR. NEUFELD:

Would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that it's an important step for criminalists to document--to document the item that he or she is collecting?

# 469 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 470 MR. NEUFELD:

And it's important for purposes of identifying an item; isn't that right?

# 471 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's right.

# 472 MR. NEUFELD:

And it's also important for maintaining or beginning the chain of custody; isn't that right?

# 473 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 474 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, take a look at the demonstration board, Miss Mazzola.

# 475 MS. MAZZOLA:

Right.

# 476 MR. NEUFELD:

Would you agree that even though you say that this is an important step in the process, that there's no photograph showing you documenting the coin envelope on this demonstration board?

# 477 MS. MAZZOLA:

There doesn't appear to be.

# 478 MR. NEUFELD:

Did you have any input at all into the creation of this demonstration board without a photograph of you doing the necessary documentation?

# 479 MS. MAZZOLA:

I had no input on the construction of the board.

KEY QUOTE

# 480 MR. NEUFELD:

All right.

# 481 THE COURT:

For the record, what was exhibited to the witness was People's 162.

# 482 MR. NEUFELD:

When you saw the board--you say the board had been shown to you prior to your testifying in this case, hadn't it?

# 483 MS. MAZZOLA:

I had a quick look at it, yes.

# 484 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, when you had a quick look at it, Miss Mazzola, did you say to the Prosecutor, "Wait a second. You're missing one important aspect of the bloodstain evidence collection process, namely the documentation of the coin envelope"? Did you say that to them?

# 485 MR. GOLDBERG:

This is irrelevant, your Honor.

# 486 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 487 MR. NEUFELD:

Can you go forward, please?

# 488 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 489 MR. NEUFELD:

See the moisture moving out from the control swatch, Miss Mazzola?

# 490 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 491 MR. NEUFELD:

You see it--

# 492 MR. NEUFELD:

Hold it.

# 493 MR. NEUFELD:

You see it coming into contact with the portion of the bloodstain that moves out in an arm to the right?

# 494 MS. MAZZOLA:

It appears that it is.

# 495 MR. NEUFELD:

One second. Can you just back it up a little bit, please, about five seconds? Stop.

# 496 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, see the dirt on the fingertips of the third and fourth fingers of your glove?

# 497 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 498 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Continue. Stop.

# 499 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, do you see that you've now turned the tweezers around so the tips are right in the middle of that palm of the glove with the dirty fingers?

# 500 MS. MAZZOLA:

I can't see which way the--

# 501 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. Could you back it up again?

# 502 MS. MAZZOLA:

--tips are facing.

# 503 MR. NEUFELD:

Could you back it up for just a few seconds, please? Okay. Now stop.

# 504 MR. NEUFELD:

Do you see that the tip of the tweezers is going into that envelope into the plastic bag?

# 505 MS. MAZZOLA:

Correct.

# 506 MR. NEUFELD:

Now go forward in slow motion, please.

# 507 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, do you agree it is--

# 508 MR. NEUFELD:

Stop.

# 509 MR. NEUFELD:

--it is now the tip of the tweezers which has gone back into your hand?

# 510 MS. MAZZOLA:

The tips would not be in my palm area because they were extremely sharp.

# 511 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, I'm not suggesting that you were cutting yourself or sticking yourself with the tweezers. But wouldn't you agree that it's possible to simply take the tweezers and hold them like this in your palm without cutting yourself (Indicating)?

# 512 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, it's speculation.

# 513 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 514 MR. NEUFELD:

Isn't it possible you can do that, Miss Mazzola?

# 515 MS. MAZZOLA:

Not those type of tweezers.

# 516 MR. NEUFELD:

You're saying that those types of tweezers are such that you can not hold them like this without cutting yourself (Indicating)? Is that your testimony?

# 517 MS. MAZZOLA:

Unless the tips were around the bottom of your hand, I can't see how you could hold the entire tweezers in your hand without getting poked.

# 518 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, if you have it simply resting in your hand like this and the point is down here near the bottom of your palm like this (Indicating), you wouldn't necessarily poke yourself, would you?

# 519 MS. MAZZOLA:

If the tips were below your hand, yes.

# 520 MR. NEUFELD:

If the tip is actually resting on your hand such as I'm doing with my pointed pen (Indicating), I'm not poking myself, am I?

# 521 THE COURT:

It's not the same, counsel.

# 522 MR. NEUFELD:

I understand that, your Honor.

# 523 MR. NEUFELD:

But am I poking myself with this?

# 524 MS. MAZZOLA:

The tips--

# 525 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant.

# 526 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 527 MR. NEUFELD:

Let's continue the tape.

# 528 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, the tip of the tweezers is very close to your fingers at this point, isn't it, on your right hand? Even if the actual tip itself isn't touching, you were pretty close to the edge on that, weren't you?

# 529 MR. GOLDBERG:

Pretty close is vague.

# 530 MR. NEUFELD:

You were within a half inch or quarter of an inch from the tip, weren't you, Miss Mazzola?

# 531 MS. MAZZOLA:

I couldn't tell how close I was on--

# 532 MR. NEUFELD:

Dropped other swatches there, Miss Mazzola; is that correct?

# 533 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 534 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, you were having some difficulty getting the swatch to get onto the stain there, right?

# 535 MS. MAZZOLA:

Right.

# 536 MR. NEUFELD:

Slow down. Stop.

# 537 MR. NEUFELD:

And so now you've moved your fingers on the dirty glove that had been in contact with the pavement down toward the tip of those tweezers, haven't you?

# 538 MS. MAZZOLA:

They are still a ways away from the tip.

# 539 MR. NEUFELD:

I understand that. But you've moved them down away from the position they were normally in to try and get that swatch to come off the tip, haven't you?

# 540 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 541 MR. NEUFELD:

And that's the same hand that had the dirt on the fingers, correct?

# 542 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe so.

# 543 MR. NEUFELD:

Continue.

# 544 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, between the collection--now you're collecting item no. 6; is that right?

# 545 MS. MAZZOLA:

That is correct.

# 546 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, between the collection of item 5 and item no. 6, you never changed your gloves, did you?

# 547 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 548 MR. NEUFELD:

And the reason you never changed your gloves is because no one at SID ever taught you to change your gloves?

# 549 MS. MAZZOLA:

They don't need to teach you when to change your gloves. You change your gloves periodically.

# 550 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, did anyone at LAPD SID ever teach you to change your gloves between the handling of different blood stains?

KEY QUOTE

# 551 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 552 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, you said that one of the procedures that you have been taught--

# 553 MR. NEUFELD:

Thank you.

# 554 (At 4:16 P.M., the playing of the videotape concluded.)

# 555 MR. NEUFELD:

One of the procedures that you have been taught at LAPD was to put some scale in the photograph such as a tape--such as a ruler to indicate the size of the actual bloodstain, correct?

# 556 MR. GOLDBERG:

That misstates the evidence.

# 557 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 558 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, were you taught as part of your instruction on forensic photography to have a ruler placed in the scene?

# 559 MR. GOLDBERG:

Asked and answered.

# 560 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 561 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, did you use a ruler when doing this demonstration to indicate--for purposes of documenting the stain, the size of the stain?

# 562 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant.

# 563 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 564 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 565 MR. NEUFELD:

And did you not do that because the Prosecutors didn't tell you to do that?

# 566 MS. MAZZOLA:

I didn't do that, but no one told me not to.

# 567 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. One moment, your Honor.

# 568 THE COURT:

Certainly.

# 569 (Brief pause.)

# 570 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, how many crime scenes have you collected bloodstains at since June 13th, 1994?

# 571 MS. MAZZOLA:

Two I believe.

# 572 MR. NEUFELD:

And would you agree that additional training and more experience makes you more proficient today than you were 10 months ago?

# 573 MS. MAZZOLA:

Experience helps.

# 574 MR. NEUFELD:

And would you agree that when collecting blood or bloodstains, mistakes can occur?

# 575 MS. MAZZOLA:

Mistakes can happen, yes.

# 576 MR. NEUFELD:

And would you agree that when collecting bloodstains, especially in evidence that's going to go out for DNA analysis, that the criminalist must understand how in the course of making different mistakes DNA could become degraded?

# 577 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't think we bear in mind DNA specifically. We look at any serological testing.

# 578 MR. NEUFELD:

Were you ever taught at the SID mini academy any connection at all between the mistakes that can happen at a crime scene and the effects it will have on DNA or other serological testing?

# 579 MR. GOLDBERG:

Misstates the evidence.

# 580 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 581 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, the wet swatches, Miss Mazzola, were placed in the truck in brown paper bags; is that right?

# 582 MS. MAZZOLA:

That is correct.

# 583 MR. NEUFELD:

Does the LAPD SID unit have a written procedure for storing biological evidence in the van?

# 584 MS. MAZZOLA:

I do not know.

# 585 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, there's a refrigerator in the van, isn't there?

# 586 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 587 MR. NEUFELD:

Did Fung instruct you to put the bloodstain swatches in the refrigerator?

# 588 MR. GOLDBERG:

Calls for hearsay.

# 589 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 590 MS. MAZZOLA:

No, he did not.

# 591 MR. NEUFELD:

And you did not see Fung put them in the refrigerator, did you?

# 592 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 593 MR. NEUFELD:

Would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that or were you aware of the fact that the refrigerator worked at least some of the time?

# 594 MS. MAZZOLA:

I was aware that it worked some of the time, yes.

# 595 MR. NEUFELD:

And that it would work for several hours eventually before the battery going dead?

# 596 MS. MAZZOLA:

I wasn't sure how long it would work.

# 597 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, have you ever been aware of the fact that it did work for more than one or two hours?

# 598 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't remember if I ever found that out.

# 599 MR. NEUFELD:

you didn't find out how long it did work for?

# 600 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 601 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that even a few hours of keeping wet blood swatches in the refrigerator is better than not keeping them there at all?

# 602 MR. GOLDBERG:

Beyond the scope of her expertise.

# 603 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 604 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, you said that you had been told by people at LAPD SID that heat can have some effect on bacteria growing on the blood swatches; isn't that correct?

# 605 MR. GOLDBERG:

Asked and answered.

# 606 THE COURT:

Sustained. Counsel, I assume there's some other witness who is going to testify to these events.

# 607 MR. NEUFELD:

One moment, your Honor.

# 608 (Brief pause.)

# 609 MR. NEUFELD:

Now, Miss Mazzola, when you came back to Rockingham later in the afternoon on the 13th, the first item of evidence that you collected inside the house was item no. 12; is that right?

# 610 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe so, yes.

# 611 MR. NEUFELD:

And item no. 12 is more than a single drop of blood, isn't it?

# 612 MS. MAZZOLA:

If I remember correctly, it is.

# 613 MR. NEUFELD:

In fact, it is three drops of blood, isn't it?

# 614 MS. MAZZOLA:

I'm not exactly sure how many.

# 615 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, the other drops of blood that you or bloodstains that you collected from the driveway that day, they were all individual drops; were they not?

# 616 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 617 MR. NEUFELD:

And weren't you taught, Miss Mazzola, that whenever you have distinct drops, even if they're close together, that they should be collected in separate packages?

# 618 MS. MAZZOLA:

That was up to the discretion of the supervisor.

# 619 MR. NEUFELD:

Let me show 14--

# 620 (Brief pause.)

# 621 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, did you receive a handout from the SID unit entitled, "Collection and preservation of body fluids"? Do you have it?

# 622 MS. MAZZOLA:

I might have. I don't remember.

# 623 MR. NEUFELD:

Next in order would be?

# 624 THE COURT:

1118? 1118.

# 625 (Deft's 1118 for id = handout)

# 626 MR. NEUFELD:

Show you this, ask you to take a look at item no. 13.

# 627 MS. MAZZOLA:

Okay.

# 628 MR. NEUFELD:

By the way, Miss Mazzola--also look at that. Do these two pages represent a handout that you received at the SID mini academy?

# 629 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes. They look familiar.

# 630 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. And in the handout that you received from the SID mini academy, weren't you told specifically, quote, if there is more than one distinct stain, these should be treated as different stains and collected separately?

# 631 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's what the handout says.

# 632 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. And, Miss Mazzola, does it anywhere in that handout say, "Oh, but wait a second. You can make an exception if the senior criminalist says to"?

# 633 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative.

# 634 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 635 MR. NEUFELD:

Did you ever receive any written instructions at all from LAPD SID suggesting that you could make an exception from that rule when the senior criminalist so chose?

# 636 MS. MAZZOLA:

There is nothing written down.

# 637 MR. NEUFELD:

In fact, even on the demo board that we just looked at, Miss Mazzola, items 5 and 6 are only several inches apart, aren't they?

# 638 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe--well, what do you call by several?

# 639 MR. NEUFELD:

Would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that items 5 and 6 are within a foot of one another?

# 640 MS. MAZZOLA:

They could be within a foot, yes.

# 641 MR. NEUFELD:

And, Miss Mazzola, I believe you said that you had also been taught it wasn't necessary to pick up every single drop in a area, but only to pick up representative drops; is that correct?

# 642 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 643 MR. NEUFELD:

In fact, other than the three drops that you saw in the foyer where you picked up item no. 12, weren't there some other small drops in the vicinity that you didn't bother to collect?

# 644 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't remember if I saw any other little drops around that area or not.

# 645 (Brief pause.)

# 646 MR. NEUFELD:

But you would agree, ma'am, that there were at least a few drops in that foyer area where you collected no. 12?

# 647 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 648 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. And, Miss Mazzola, I believe you said that from looking at the drops outside, one could not tell which direction they were going in; isn't that correct?

# 649 MS. MAZZOLA:

I did not look at them as to try to determine directionality. I don't have any experience in that field.

# 650 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, did Mr. Fung in your presence say that they had any particular direction?

# 651 MR. GOLDBERG:

Calls for hearsay.

# 652 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 653 MR. NEUFELD:

I believe you said, Miss Mazzola, before that you can't tell whether or not this trail of blood drops at Rockingham is leading from the house to the Bronco or from the Bronco to the house; isn't that correct?

# 654 MR. GOLDBERG:

Asked and answered.

# 655 MR. NEUFELD:

Just for foundation for the next question.

# 656 THE COURT:

That's what she said.

# 657 MR. NEUFELD:

In fact, Miss Mazzola, from what you've just said, the greater number of drops that you saw in any particular area was that concentration of drops in the foyer inside the front door; isn't that correct?

# 658 MS. MAZZOLA:

That is correct.

# 659 MR. NEUFELD:

let me ask you a hypothetical, Miss Mazzola.

# 660 MR. NEUFELD:

I'll hold it up like this.

# 661 MR. GOLDBERG:

May I just--

# 662 MR. NEUFELD:

Let's put it on this.

# 663 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, as a criminalist, have you learned that when a person initially cuts himself or herself, you bleed more profusely, and then as clotting occurs, the bleeding dies down? Did you learn that?

# 664 MR. GOLDBERG:

Beyond the scope of her expertise.

# 665 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 666 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, just from your common every-day experience, have you ever had a cut?

# 667 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 668 MR. GOLDBERG:

Calls for opinion, conclusionary.

# 669 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 670 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, what do you know both professionally and from your own experiences as to how frequently blood drops are made when you first get cut and how they dissipate as time passes?

# 671 MR. GOLDBERG:

Same objection.

# 672 THE COURT:

Overruled. Do you know anything about those topics?

# 673 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't know how fast the blood drops form or drop.

# 674 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, let me ask you this hypothetical, Miss Mazzola. If someone cut himself in the foyer of his house, might he bleed more profusely inside before going outside?

# 675 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 676 MR. NEUFELD:

It's a hypothetical.

# 677 THE COURT:

No. It has to be within the expert's expertise. It's not.

# 678 MR. NEUFELD:

As a criminalist, Miss Mazzola, have you been trained--have you received any training at all in looking at blood pattern, any?

# 679 MS. MAZZOLA:

Very little bit. Not much at all.

# 680 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, Miss Mazzola, would you agree that the pattern of drops that you observed--that the pattern of drops that you observed on June 13th at Bundy are consistent with--

# 681 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, I object to anything further along this line.

# 682 THE COURT:

Overruled. Let me hear the question.

# 683 MR. NEUFELD:

--are consistent, Miss Mazzola, with an individual cutting himself inside the house where you observed those three drops?

# 684 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained. Counsel, this is beyond her expertise.

# 685 MR. NEUFELD:

One moment.

# 686 (Brief pause.)

# 687 MR. NEUFELD:

Next in order then?

# 688 THE COURT:

1119. Miss Robertson, 1119?

# 689 THE CLERK:

Yes.

# 690 THE COURT:

Thank you.

# 691 (Deft's 1119 for id = photograph)

# 692 THE COURT:

Mr. Neufeld, you might want to wind it up.

# 693 MR. NEUFELD:

All right. One moment, your Honor.

# 694 THE COURT:

No. Go ahead and finish your thought.

# 695 MR. NEUFELD:

Put that up.

# 696 MR. NEUFELD:

Miss Mazzola, do you recognize that photograph?

# 697 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 698 MR. NEUFELD:

And is that photograph showing at least three different blood drops?

# 699 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 700 MR. NEUFELD:

On the foyer near the card no. 12?

# 701 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 702 MR. NEUFELD:

And isn't it true, Miss Mazzola, that that was the only blood drops or bloodstains that you observed on the first floor of the house?

# 703 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 704 MR. NEUFELD:

And isn't it true, Miss Mazzola, that after you collected those blood drops in item no. 12 in the foyer near the front door, that you then walked up the stairway?

# 705 MS. MAZZOLA:

I believe we started going upstairs, yes.

# 706 MR. NEUFELD:

And you examined the light carpet on the stairs?

# 707 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 708 MR. NEUFELD:

And as you examined that light carpet on the stairs, there was absolutely no bloodstains seen there at all, right?

# 709 MS. MAZZOLA:

I did not observe any.

# 710 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, you were looking, weren't you?

# 711 MS. MAZZOLA:

Right.

# 712 MR. NEUFELD:

And wasn't Dennis Fung looking?

# 713 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 714 MR. NEUFELD:

And he didn't say he observed any either, did he?

# 715 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 716 MR. NEUFELD:

And you were not only looking for blood drops at that point, you were also looking for dry flecks of blood as well, weren't you?

# 717 MS. MAZZOLA:

Anything that was red.

# 718 MR. NEUFELD:

And you didn't see anything that was red on this white carpet ascending all the way up the stairs?

# 719 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't remember what color the carpet was.

# 720 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, was it light color ma'am?

# 721 MS. MAZZOLA:

It was light, yes.

# 722 MR. NEUFELD:

It was the kind of color that if there was a red drop, it would stand out, wouldn't it?

# 723 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 724 MR. NEUFELD:

And then as you walked down the hallway on that second floor toward Mr. Simpson's bedroom, there was also that same light colored carpeting, correct?

# 725 MS. MAZZOLA:

I don't recall. Could be. I don't remember.

# 726 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, when you--you were examining the floor, weren't you, at that point?

# 727 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 728 MR. NEUFELD:

And you didn't see any blood drops there either, did you?

# 729 MS. MAZZOLA:

That's correct.

# 730 MR. NEUFELD:

And you didn't see any flecks of blood, did you?

# 731 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 732 MR. NEUFELD:

And when you examined that stairway going up the stairs, ma'am, did you examine the banister also?

# 733 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 734 MR. NEUFELD:

And on the banister, ma'am, there were no flecks of blood, were there?

# 735 MS. MAZZOLA:

I personally did not observe any.

# 736 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, did Mr. Fung personally observe them in your presence?

# 737 MS. MAZZOLA:

Not in my presence, no.

# 738 MR. NEUFELD:

And on that banister, there were no flecks of blood either, were there?

# 739 MS. MAZZOLA:

I did not see any.

# 740 MR. NEUFELD:

And Mr. Fung didn't mention any to you, did he?

# 741 MS. MAZZOLA:

No.

# 742 MR. NEUFELD:

And if you had seen them, you would have collected them, wouldn't you?

# 743 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 744 MR. NEUFELD:

And you would have photographed them?

# 745 MS. MAZZOLA:

Yes.

# 746 MR. NEUFELD:

And also on that banister, ma'am, there were no smears of blood, were there, indicating that somebody had blood on their hands? Isn't that correct?

# 747 MS. MAZZOLA:

I did not recall seeing anything like that.

# 748 MR. NEUFELD:

And Mr. Fung didn't observe any either that he mentioned to you, did he?

# 749 MR. GOLDBERG:

Calls for conclusion. Hearsay.

# 750 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 751 MR. NEUFELD:

Did Mr. Fung in your presence say to you that he had observed any smears of blood on the banister?

# 752 THE COURT:

Sustained. Counsel, why don't you rephrase that question; did Mr. Fung point out to you any blood smears, et cetera, et cetera.

# 753 MR. NEUFELD:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 754 MR. NEUFELD:

You can answer the Judge's question.

# 755 MS. MAZZOLA:

No, he did not.

# 756 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. Why don't we stop at this point.

# 757 THE COURT:

All right. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take our recess for the afternoon. Please remember all of my admonitions to you; don't discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't allow anybody to communicate with you and do not conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. As far as the jury is concerned, we will stand in recess until 9:00 o'clock. I'll see counsel as soon as the jury has departed.

Temperature

devastating

Key Quotes (5)

Andrea Mazzola

That would be preferable.

Mazzola concedes that it would be preferable NOT to let control swatch moisture contact the bloodstain — after denying she was ever taught this — validating Neufeld's contamination theory on her own terms.

Peter Neufeld

And if that water then spreads outward and actually comes into contact with the bloodstain, then the bloodstain can come into contact with the very same contaminant that the right hand initially came into contact with. Isn't that a possibility?

Neufeld closes the contamination chain: dirty ground → gloved hand → control swatch → moisture spreading to bloodstain. Mazzola answers 'A possibility, yes.'

Andrea Mazzola

No. When it is extremely cold, my left knee tends to tighten up a bit.

Answering whether bending down to collect swatches is tiring — an unexpectedly humanizing detail that also confirms her body was repeatedly contacting the dirty pavement.

Andrea Mazzola

I had no input on the construction of the board.

Mazzola distances herself from the prosecution's demonstration board (People's 162), which conspicuously omitted photographs of dropped swatches and envelope documentation.

Peter Neufeld

Did anyone at LAPD SID ever teach you to change your gloves between the handling of different blood stains?

Mazzola answers 'No' — establishing that the SID's own training protocol failed to require glove changes between stains, a core defense argument about systemic evidence-handling failure.

Evidence (5)

Deft's 1117

Prosecution-produced demonstration videotape of Mazzola collecting bloodstain swatches, dated 4-4-95

introduced and played in full during cross-examination; used to impeach Mazzola's direct examination testimony

Deft's 1117-A

Still printout captured from the demonstration videotape showing Mazzola's right hand on dirty concrete

introduced as freeze-frame exhibit to supplement videotape playback

People's 162

Prosecution still-photo demonstration board showing bloodstain collection procedure

challenged; Neufeld establishes it omitted dropped swatches and envelope documentation steps visible on the videotape

Deft's 1118

SID training handout titled 'Collection and preservation of body fluids'

introduced; used to impeach Mazzola — handout explicitly states distinct stains must be collected separately, contradicting her claim that departures were at the supervisor's discretion

Informal

Refrigerator in LAPD SID evidence van

discussed; Mazzola acknowledges wet blood swatches were not placed in the working refrigerator on June 13, 1994

Notable Exchanges (4)

Peter Neufeld•Andrea Mazzola

Neufeld walks through the videotape frame by frame, repeatedly freezing on Mazzola's right hand touching dirty concrete, then showing the same hand handle tweezers and contact swatches. Mazzola acknowledges each step only when the video evidence is undeniable.

methodical and devastating

Peter Neufeld•Andrea Mazzola

Neufeld establishes a contamination chain: dirty ground → glove → control swatch → moisture spreading to bloodstain. Mazzola ultimately concedes each link is 'a possibility' and that keeping moisture away from the stain 'would be preferable,' despite claiming she was never taught this.

revealing

Peter Neufeld•Andrea Mazzola

Neufeld confronts Mazzola with the SID handout (Deft's 1118) stating distinct stains must be collected separately, after she testified that combining drops was at the senior criminalist's discretion. She concedes the handout contains no written exception.

strategic

Peter Neufeld•Hank Goldberg•Lance A. Ito

Neufeld attempts to ask whether Goldberg told Mazzola it was 'safe' to testify she never dropped bloody swatches because the tape didn't show it. Ito sustains the objection and instructs the jury to disregard the implication — but the insinuation about prosecutorial coaching had already landed.

heated

Light Moments (3)

Andrea Mazzola

After Neufeld apologizes for interrupting her answer, Mazzola drily responds 'Be my guest' — then confirms she had nothing more to say.

Lance A. Ito

Neufeld tells Judge Ito he has never played a videotape for the jury before and asks for patience. Ito replies flatly: 'Well, you've seen your colleagues.'

Lance A. Ito

Neufeld uses his pointed pen to demonstrate that sharp objects can rest in a palm without drawing blood, prompting Ito to interject: 'It's not the same, counsel.'

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Andrea Mazzola

prior inconsistent act / videotape impeachment

Prosecution's own demonstration videotape directly contradicts Mazzola's direct examination testimony: she had denied touching blood with gloved hands, yet the tape shows her dirty-handed technique; the prosecution's demo board omitted the dropped swatches shown on tape.

⚔ Andrea Mazzola

prior written statement / training document

SID's own training handout (Deft's 1118) states distinct stains must be collected separately, contradicting her testimony that combining drops was permissible at supervisor discretion.

⚔ Andrea Mazzola

bias / prosecutorial coaching

Neufeld elicits that prep sessions lasted up to five hours, that prosecutors discussed the possibility of the defense playing the videotape, and that Mazzola's direct examination conveniently addressed swatch-dropping — implying her testimony was shaped around the tape's contents.

Witness Demeanor

Mazzola gives clipped, cautious answers — frequently 'I don't know,' 'I don't believe so,' 'It's a possibility' — suggesting coaching to avoid overcommitting.

She volunteers explanations only occasionally, e.g., noting her left knee tightens in cold weather and that the blood was 'baked' onto concrete by a heater during the demo.

No stage directions indicating visible distress, though her answers become increasingly minimal as Neufeld closes contamination chains.

Objections

38 objections (14 sustained, 20 overruled)

Proceeding 5792 • 757 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103