Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

Actually, I'll start on 734, line 27 through 735, line 26.

Are you ready counsel? Do you have that?

What line? I am sorry.

27.

Thank you.

"Question: And which--I am sorry. At Bundy again, were there certain stains that you collected and other stains that were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: Yes. "Question: And which bloodstains were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: I believe he collected the red stains that were near the shoeprints that were made on the walkway. "Question: Would you please look at your notes and tell me which numbers those are? "Question: And when you say that, you say he collected the actual foot shoeprints where he collected alleged drops that were near the shoeprints? "Answer: He, if I remember correctly, took swatchings of the red stains that were constituting the footprint itself. "Question: Can you tell us which ones those were, please? "Answer: Property items 55 and 56. "Question: And that is it? "Answer: Yes. "Question: All other bloodstains at the Bundy crime scene were collected by you, ma'am? "Answer: Yes." Do you recall that testimony?

Somewhat.

Okay. And since testifying at this hearing, was there an occasion when you and Dennis Fung went over the crime scene identification checklist again to try to make notations as to who physically collected which items?

Objection as to hearsay.

Excuse me. Overruled.

Yes.

And have you since had an occasion to think about yourself what happened at the scene and who did what?

Yes.

And did you in fact do, other than on stain 55 and 56, the shoeprints, most of the physical swatching on the other stains?

Most of the physical swatching, yes.

All right. And since then, have you come up with the two recollections that you testified to on stain 47 and the item with the berry?

Yes.

Now, at the time that you testified at this Griffen hearing, did you believe that all of the photographs taken of the bloodstains had rulers in them or scales in them?

I believe that they had, yes.

What made you think that?

Because I had seen the photographer lay down a scale on one of the drops. So I assumed that he was going to do it for all of them.

Did you since look at the crime--have you since had an opportunity to review the crime scene photographs?

Yes.

Have you had an opportunity to review the crime scene photographs before testifying at the Griffen hearing?

No.

And in reviewing the crime scene photographs, did you see a scale in every single one of the photographs?

No, I did not.

All right. I'd like to direct your attention to an exhibit that we've previously marked as Defense 1081.

And it's page 2. This is the crime scene identification checklist, your Honor.

All right.

What's this of?

Bundy.

Miss Mazzola, do you recognize this to be part of the crime scene identification checklist for Bundy?

Yes.

And whose handwriting is on that list?

Mine.

Now, do you see the notation that says was this scene--excuse me--"Has this scene been altered. If so, by whom and how"?

Yes.

Did you write that question mark in there or did someone else do it?

I did.

And why did you do that?

Because at the time, I did not know if the scene had been altered. It was an assumption that it had because the Coroners were there.

All right. Now, is it your understanding as a criminalist that you have a responsibility or that the criminalist has a responsibility to make inquiries of anyone in terms of whether the scene was altered?

The criminalist really does not do any investigative work.

Okay. But does the criminalist talk to the investigating officer?

Yes.

So would the criminalist perhaps ask questions about what happened prior to their arrival on the scene?

Yes.

But when you say "Investigative work," what are you talking about when you use that term?

Actually talk to the individual people to find out if they personally had moved anything, where they had been.

You mean, in terms of a more formal witness interview?

Right.

Do the criminalists do that at Los Angeles Police Department?

No.

Thank you. Now, I would like to talk about some of the items that were collected in and around the caged-off area at the Bundy location and first the glove. I think it's People's 164.

Excuse me. It's 77-a for identification. Your Honor, maybe I can just put a piece of butcher paper down on the little table over there so we can take this out.

Miss Mazzola, I would like you to, after putting the gloves on, remove People's 77 and describe what you're doing for the record.

Okay. Do you have a knife or--

Do you have a preference?

No. Thank you. I'm opening the sealed envelope. I am removing a paper bag and I'm opening the bag and removing the glove.

Now, do you recognize any of the writing on that paper bag?

Yes.

Whose writing is that?

It looks like most of it is my writing.

Okay. And is that the paper bag into which the glove was placed at the Bundy location?

Yes.

Now, have you had an opportunity to look at some videotapes showing yourself collecting a glove and also cap at the Bundy location?

Yes.

Prior to seeing those videotapes, did you have an independent recollection of who collected those items?

I knew that I collected most of the items in that area.

Did you recall specifically who collected the glove prior to viewing the videotape?

Specifically, no.

All right. Did the viewing of the videotape refresh your recollection?

Yes.

Now, prior to this crime scene--well, let me back up for a second. When did you actually start taking the criminalistics courses at school, the criminalistics portions of your formal education?

Oh, let's see. 1987, 1988, somewhere in there.

So had you been involved in the forensics science community then for approximately six years or so prior to collecting this glove?

Objection. Leading.

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

How long have you been involved in the scientific community prior to collecting this glove?

I had contact with them since beginning my forensics courses at school.

And that was how many years?

Six, seven, somewhere around there.

Your Honor, object and move to strike. It's totally irrelevant whether she had contact.

Overruled.

And can you show us now the technique that is used to collect a piece of evidence such as this glove by placing it back in the bag? I know it's sort of wrinkled, but maybe you can do it for us.

Okay. After the photo id number is written on the bag corresponding to the number given the glove, the bag is opened and you want to pick up the glove in a secured grip, but touching as small an area as possible. I'll just put it in and fold the bag closed securely and that's it (Indicating).

That's all there is to it?

And did you feel qualified to do that after being involved in the forensics science community for about six years?

Yes.

Objection, your Honor. Irrelevant whether she felt qualified.

Overruled.

Now, I would like to show you People's next exhibit, I think it's 78. It's the cap.

Yeah.

All right. You want to place that back in the envelope?

Thank you.

Can you now retrieve People's 78 for identification and show us what you're doing?

Okay. Removing the paper bag from the envelope, opening the bag and retrieving the hat.

And what is that item?

That is a knit watch cap.

And who recovered that from the location?

I did.

Do you recognize the writing that's on the packaging?

Yes.

Whose is that?

That's my writing.

Okay. You can replace that, describe what you're doing for the record.

Thank you (Witness complies.)

People's 78's been replaced. Mr. Goldberg.

Miss Mazzola, does there appear to be any trace evidence or anything that was left on that butcher paper?

I don't see anything.

Perhaps we can just dispose of it then.

There's a trash can right beside you.

Thank you.

Mr. Goldberg.

I would like to now show you a videotape we previously marked as Defense 1083 for identification and then I'll ask you some questions about it.

Could we have the lights dimmed a little bit? I think we can get better resolution that way.

Now--

Thank you.

Miss Mazzola, did Defense 1083 depict you at the crime scene collecting some evidence?

Yes, it does.

What were you collecting in that tape?

I was collecting the hat and glove at Bundy.

And did you change gloves in-between collecting the hat and the glove?

No.

Why not?

Okay. And when you were at a crime scene and collecting evidence, is it your habit to, if you see something on your gloves or see some blood or trace on your gloves, to change them?

Yes.

So the glove and the hat were in close proximity?

Yes.

Now, I'd like to show you another exhibit that's been marked as People's 192 for identification and then I would like to ask you some questions about that.

Okay. If you can stop for just a second.

I would like to direct your attention to the dark area that is in approximately the middle of the screen.

And for the record, this is just shortly after Mr. Fung put down an item and then disappeared up the steps. He's no longer depicted in this frame.

Yes.

Let's continue. Maybe we can stop for just a second.

We've stopped on a card that I think says 103 and it appears to depict part of the glove on the left side of the screen and part of the knit cap on the right side of the screen; is that correct?

That's correct.

Is this what you were referring to when you were saying they were in close proximity?

Yes.

And why is that significant?

Well, any trace that I think would be moved from one to the other if you hadn't changed gloves and they were not in such close proximity, that would be more of a concern than if they were side by bide like that (Indicating).

And is this where they were at the time that you first saw them?

Yes.

And when you collected them?

Yes.

Let's continue. Let's stop for a second.

Now we have a photograph that has three evidence cards in it. Did you place those evidence cards down or did someone else do it?

Someone else.

And who was that?

Mr. Fung.

And does this photograph depict the envelope and the glove and the watch cap--excuse me--the cap after the three evidence cards were placed down?

Yes.

All right. Let's continue. Now if we can stop for just a second.

Can you see that dark area that I directed your attention to on the first frame that we stopped on?

Yes.

And now for the record, we're on a frame at the end of this collage that has a crime scene tape across the upper portion of the screen, your Honor.

Yes. It appears to be the step area, appears to be Mr. Fung wearing booties on the second and third steps.

Thank you.

Now, with respect to the area, the dark area that I directed your attention to, do you know what that was?

No.

Was it the glove?

No.

Did you ever see the glove in any location while you were at the scene other than as depicted in the still photography you saw?

No.

Now, I'd like to direct your attention to an item that we've marked as People's 32 for identification and also 191 for identification.

May I approach the witness?

You may.

I'm showing you People's 32 for identification. Do you recognize what is in this envelope or this plastic baggie rather?

Yes.

What is that?

That appears to be the envelope that was found at Bundy.

Do you recognize any of the writing on the packaging?

Yes.

Whose is that?

Some of it is mine.

Who wrote item no. 39 on there? Is that your writing?

That appears to be my writing.

And what about 104?

That's mine.

Is 104 the photo?

Yes.

And directing your attention to People's 191 for identification, is this the same type of bag that is used in the Scientific Investigation Division?

Yes.

All right. Now, did you package at the scene the eyeglass envelope, the bloody envelope into the packaging material, the paper bag that has the photo id and item number id on it?

Yes.

How did you do that?

I picked up the envelope wearing gloves in a small relatively clean area and placed it in the bag and folded down the top.

Okay. And is the bag that it's placed in appear to be the same type that I've just given you, the fresh one?

Just--yeah. Brown paper bag.

All right.

Now, perhaps we can see the clip of the tape that's previously been marked as Defense 1082.

I want you to look--have we already--maybe we can back it up again--very closely at the item that's being passed between yourself and Mr. Fung. Maybe we can just see that again. Do you see that?

Yes.

All right. We're stopping at frame 13:24:24.

It's a little blurry. Okay. Fine. That's fine. Is that the entire tape?

Did you get a chance to take another look at that?

Yes. I caught a glimpse of it.

What?

I caught a glimpse of it.

Okay. Have you seen this before?

Yes.

This footage? And is that item the bloody eyeglass envelope?

No.

Would you hand a bloody eyeglass--a bloody piece of evidence to Mr. Fung?

Objection. Speculation.

Overruled.

No.

If he wasn't wearing gloves?

No. Absolutely not.

Why not?

He wasn't wearing gloves, plus I was the one that was packaging the evidence.

Okay. Do you know in what way Mr. Fung and you were working together at this time in terms of the evidence collection in this area? I'm referring to Defense 1082.

I was the one that was in the caged-in area picking up the larger items of evidence. Mr. Fung was handing me the bags, taking the bags from me as I was handing them out.

Do you know--why was it that the two of you didn't work in the cage simultaneously?

At that point, there were other pieces of evidence inside that had to be picked up and there was not enough room for both of us to be in there without running the risk of hurting some of the evidence.

Okay. So only one of you was in there?

Correct.

And that was you?

That was me.

And why is it that you would not hand an un-gloved criminalist a bloody piece of evidence?

I wouldn't hand anybody anything bloody if they were not wearing gloves.

But is it for health reasons or--

Personal protection, right.

What kinds of problems are you now concerned of, about as a criminalist in terms of dealing with biological evidence at a crime scene?

Today, we have various types of hepatitis, we have HIV, we have aids, we have all kinds of things that are showing up in biologicals.

Are criminalists in general pretty sensitive about the health issues that are involved in collecting biological evidence?

Very, very mindful of it.

Thank you.

Now, do you recall at the Bundy location seeing any stains on a rear gate on the 13th?

I honestly don't even remember a rear gate.

Okay. Do you remember having a walk-through with a detective at the beginning of your collection procedure?

I remember starting on a walk-through, yes.

Do you know whether you went all the way back as--well, do you know where the rear gate is now?

Now I do, yes.

How?

From photographs, video.

Okay. When you went through the walk-through, did you go back as far as the rear gate?

No.

Did Mr. Fung continue on with the walk-through?

Yes, he did.

Without you? Okay. And at the Bundy location, did any of the blood drops on the area that we've referred to as the trail appear to have been stepped in?

No.

Approximately what time did you leave the Bundy location?

Oh, it was approximately 3:15 or so, 3 o'clock, 3:15.

All right. And where did you go after you left?

We went back to Rockingham.

Did you take the crime scene truck?

Yes.

And what would you have done with the gloves that you had been wearing at the Bundy location when you left?

They were taken off and put in the trash bag.

Before you left, did you do the same evidence inventory procedure that you've described?

Yes.

And do you have--are you--do you have an independent recollection of exactly where that took place?

Not an exact recollection. I have an idea where it took place, but I can't be absolutely positive.

Was it outdoors?

It was outdoors, yes.

Can you tell us in terms of being towards the front of the Bundy location? By that, I mean the Bundy side or to the rear towards the alley side?

It was up front.

All right. What time did you return to the Rockingham location?

Probably around 3:30 or so.

Do you have any notes with you that you can use to give us the time that you collected the first item of evidence once you returned to Rockingham in the afternoon?

Yes, I do.

Can you tell us? Do you have it memorized or do you need something?

I don't have it memorized.

Please tell us what you are referring to to give us that information.

Okay. I'm referring to the evidence collection sheet.

Your Honor, I am sorry. I'll object. I would say there has to be a proper foundation laid before she refreshes her recollection. She hasn't done that.

Overruled.

Okay. This says 1540.

So that's 3:40?

3:40.

Was the notation as to the time in your handwriting or Mr. Fung's?

My handwriting.

And when you made that notation, how did you do it? Did you ask someone or look at your watch or what?

I think I just glanced at my watch.

All right. And this first item was stain no. 11?

Correct.

Which was on which side of the house?

It was on the side of the house near the garage, on that end of the house.

That little narrow walkway area?

Right.

And that's outdoors?

That's outdoors.

All right. Now, I would like to direct your attention back to some testimony at the Griffen hearing on page 758. Well, actually 757, line 25 through 758, line 4.

I'm sorry? What lines?

Line 25 and 758 to line 4.

Do you have that, Mr. Neufeld?

Yes.

All right. Thank you. Proceed.

At the Griffen hearing, did you give the following answers to the following questions? "Question: And what time did you get back to Rockingham was it? "Answer: Right around 4 o'clock, somewhere in there. "Question: How do you know it was about 4 o'clock? "Answer: Because of the time that is noted that we collected the sample in the foyer." Do you remember giving that testimony?

Yes.

Okay. So was this testimony that you got back there at 4 o'clock correct?

No.

And why did you testify that way?

All right. Now, I would like to read you another passage that occurred just previously to that on page 757.

Counsel, it's lines 12 through 15. 757, 12 through 15.

Proceed.

Just previously to that, did you give the following answer to this question? "Question: So as soon as you got back to Rockingham, the first thing that you did was walk inside and lift item no. 12? "Answer: After it was photographed." Do you recall that?

Yes.

So was item no. 12 in fact the first item that you collected?

No.

So why did you think that item no. 12 was the first thing that you collected and that it was at 4 o'clock?

Because as I said, I was just going off of the notes. I didn't have time to go through them and refresh my memory and I looked at the wrong line.

Did you--didn't you see no. 11 at that time when you were testifying at the Griffen hearing and looking over the crime scene identification checklist?

I honestly don't remember.

Okay. But based upon the crime scene identification checklist, was item no. 11 in fact the first stain that you collected in the afternoon?

Yes.

And who did the physical collection on that?

I did.

All right. Now, did you in fact collect a stain no. 12 in the foyer area of Rockingham?

Yes.

Perhaps we can see People's 169, which is the interior Rockingham map.

Can you see this, Miss Mazzola? Directing your attention to the photographs on this exhibit that are labeled with photograph numbers--photograph no. 12 and the call out line, do those depict where this item was collected?

Yes, it does.

And this was the first interior item?

Correct.

And who did the physical collection in terms of the swatching of this item?

I did.

Was Mr. Fung watching you on this item?

Yes, he was.

All right. Now, after collecting this item from the foyer area, where did you go in the location?

We started making our way upstairs looking as we were going for any items of evidence.

So you collected downstairs first before going upstairs?

Correct.

And when you got upstairs, did you go to the master bedroom area of the house?

We did go there.

Did you see the item that's contained in photographs 13?

Yes, I did.

And where were they?

They were at the foot of the master bedroom bed.

All right. And did you also see the item that's depicted in the photographs that are labeled 14?

Yes, I did.

And what are you doing in this photograph?

That--

Photograph that shows you holding a q-tip.

That is a simple presumptive test for blood.

Is that the phenolphtalein test?

Yes, it is.

Now, if you look closely at that photograph, in the upper right-hand corner, you can see that there is some clothing on the ground. Can you see that? It's right behind the shower door. No. The one that has you doing the presumptive test.

Yes.

The one that has photograph no. 14.

Yes.

Do you recall how that clothing got there?

One of the detectives was looking through the clothing.

Was that while you and criminalist Fung were in this master bathroom, master bedroom area?

Yes, it was.

And prior to this detective looking at this item, where was the clothing?

The clothing was in a clothes hamper. You can't really see that.

Okay. That's fine. You can resume the witness stand.

Thank you.

So when the detective took the items out of the hamper, did he ever put them back in the hamper that you saw or did he just leave them on the floor?

I don't remember if he put them back or not.

But he did--but he did take them out and put them on the floor?

Yes.

Okay. You can take that down.

Do you know how the towels got on the floor?

No, I don't.

Okay. Now, after collecting item no. 12, what was the next item number that you collected, that was collected in your presence?

May I check my notes?

Yes.

After item 12, item 13 was picked up.

And after item no. 13, what was picked up?

Item 14.

And who physically collected item no. 13?

Mr. Fung.

What time was item no. 14 collected?

Approximately 1640.

And the record should reflect that Miss Mazzola is referring to her notes.

Yes.

And were you referring to the crime scene identification checklist?

Yes, I was.

Now, is there a time for 13 on that list or is it just 12 and 14?

Just 12 and 14.

Your Honor, I would just like to clarify something before I ask my next question.

Yes. At the sidebar with the court reporter, please.