Thank you. The People call Andrea Mazzola to the stand.
Andrea Mazzola, called as a witness by the People, was sworn and testified as follows:
Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this Court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.
Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.
Miss Mazzola directing your attention to the date of June 13, 1994, did you participate in some evidence collection at the location of 360 north Rockingham and 875 Bundy in Los Angeles?
And on the 14th did you also participate in some collection at the Bronco in the print shed?
Now, before getting into those matters, I would like to ask you a little bit about your training and your experience. First of all, what is your job title?
We work in the crime lab; collection, preservation of evidence and analyzing the evidence, testifying as an expert witness in Court.
And is part of your job description as a criminalist, that you actually have to analyze evidence?
And then as part of your job description are you also required to testify in Court as an expert witness?
Was that true when you were first hired with the Los Angeles Police Department as a criminalist 1?
Now, before you became a criminalist 1 at the Los Angeles Police Department, did you have some formal training in school?
Before you were allowed to take courses that were specific to forensic science, did you have to take general background science courses?
And what kind of courses did you take that were general background science courses before you got into the specifics of forensic science?
We had to take general chemistry, organic chemistry, qualitative analysis, quantity--quantitative analysis, chemistry, biochemistry. We had to take some biology courses, such as anatomy, genetics, basic biology.
All right. And after you were finished with taking these various general science courses, did you then take some courses that were specific to the area of criminalistics?
Approximately how many courses did you take in school that were specific to the area of criminalistics?
It involved the analyzing of trace evidence, such as hair, fiber, minute glass particles, extremely small pieces of evidence.
Okay. Now, did this professor that taught you in the trace analysis course use any particular technique to impress on you the importance of maintaining control of your evidence?
Yes. Umm, if he thought that we were not maintaining control over our evidence, if he thought we were leaving it out on the bench top, he would confiscate the evidence. And since the evidence was your unknown, you had to buy it back with points, and each report was only with 50 points to begin with, so if you lost 20 points buying your evidence, you more or less couldn't pass that one section.
Did you lose any points during this course as a result of not maintaining control of your evidence?
All right. And did this technique that the professor used seem to work in impressing on you the--
Okay. Now, as a student when you were there at the California State University did you start--did you participate with other students in starting any organizations in the area of criminalistics?
Yes. Umm, since forensic science was such a small major, we wanted to try to bring more people into the area, at least let them become familiar with it, so we started an organization which became recognized by the university to promote forensic science, to give people an idea of what it was.
Okay. Did you also begin attending meetings as a student of the California Association of Criminalists?
It is an organization of criminalists, people in the fields. They attend meetings, seminars, classes, to gain more information in the field, to share ideas, new techniques.
Okay. And when you graduated from the California State University, did you begin working at a law enforcement agency--
And what was your job title there when you began with the Kern County District Attorney's office in their crime lab?
And when you were there working in toxicology, umm, was there anything that you learned in terms of handling biological specimens and avoiding cross-contamination that would be relevant towards processing a crime scene?
Well, anytime you are working with biologicals or any evidence, you have to be careful of cross-contamination. You only work on one item or one sample at a time. You never have two items open at the same time. You are very careful about the utensils you use, whether it is pipettes, which are usually disposable, or tweezers or scissors, anything.
Okay. And when you were there at the Kern County District Attorney's office crime lab, did you have the opportunity to see what other criminalists were doing in areas that were not involved with toxicology?
So did you sort of get an overview of different areas of criminalistics while you were there?
Did you ever have the opportunity of seeing people at the Kern County crime lab, the criminalists, processing bloody clothing or clothing from rape cases that might contain biological evidence?
While you were there did you join any other organizations that are involved in the area of criminalistics?
And what is the American Academy of Forensic Sciences as opposed to the California Association of Criminalists?
They are similar in that they are both organizations dealing with the area of criminalistics, forensic science, the law. The American academy takes a wider view. We have people who are in the law, we have dentists. There are different sections dealing with the different professions.
Now, after you left the Kern County District Attorney's office crime lab, where did you go?
So as a toxicologist were you doing the same thing that you were doing when you were working in the Kern County toxicology section?
And you were doing the actual--is it a chemical analysis or a physical analysis of the biological specimens?
Okay. When were you--at this toxicology, valley toxicology, what were the dates that you were there?
Oh, let's see. Let me check my--it was approximately May of `93 to about the middle of December of `93.
Okay. And when you were hired were you hired alone or were there other people that were hired in the same group?
There were three other people who were hired approximately the same time as I was.
It involved showing us the way that the LAPD crime lab collects their evidence, the different sections, what they had to offer us, what they had available to help us at a crime scene or analyzing evidence once we got back to the lab.
Did they teach you how to physically pick up evidence and collect evidence at a crime scene?
How was that done? Was that a theoretical instruction or a practical or a combination?
It was a combination. They first told us why they do it this way, why you need to pick up, be it blood or whatever. Then we had practical hands-on where we would actually pick up the blood from different substrates; concrete, carpet, stone.
So were these mock crime scenes or what were they when you were picking up this blood in the mini academy?
It really wasn't like a mock crime scene. They just had the blood on the different substrates that we would tend to run into out in the real world, so we would have hands-on experience on how to manipulate the stain, how to collect it, preserve it, to learn, you know, to be careful about contamination.
Did they also teach you other techniques such as tool marks, dust prints, shoeprints and the like?
All right. Now, how difficult was it for you to learn how to pick up blood, biological evidence?
Okay. And as a criminalist, when you start as a criminalist 1, are you expected to go out to crime scenes and pick up evidence?
We are expected to accompany the more experienced criminalists when we can. We watch them, the way they process scenes. We are allowed to pick up evidence under their supervision. It gives us more training under supervision.
Okay. Now, is there some aspect in which even though you are a criminalist 1 and you've been taught how to do these physical--how to physically collect the evidence, is there some aspect in which you are still being trained in crime scene investigation during that 18 months?
In that period it is more like we are being trained in the discretionary area to go to a crime scene, to look at it, to decide what is evidence, what we can pick up that would be of value, what can be analyzed back at the lab. That is the part that we are being trained in as criminalist 1's.
Well, are you still being trained in the physical part of how you actually physically pick up a shoeprint or how you physically pick up a piece of biological evidence?
To a certain extent. For the most part we are trained in the technical area. It is the discretionary area, making the decisions, that we are in the process of learning.
What all does this discretionary area involve in terms of being a criminalist? Is it just what to pick up and what not to pick up?
Well, also it involves dealing with the people you will find at the scene; the detectives, the Coroner's people, determining what is viable evidence versus what is really not part of the scene.
When you are at a scene do you simply just pick up anything and everything that happens to be in the area or within a certain diameter of the bodies, in the case of a murder? How do you go about making that kind of a decision?
That again is the discretionary area. You have to look at the whole scene, try to get an idea of what could have happened and start looking for items that could be connected. It is better to pick up a little more than not enough.
KEY QUOTEIs there any problem with just indiscriminately collecting everything that you see?
Yes, because you will spend all your time picking up every single little bit of paper or whatever and you are not adding towards figuring out what happened. You are adding a lot of garbage is what it is.
And is it this area in which during the 18 months you are still being trained then in terms of how to evaluate a crime scene, how to make this kind of decision?
Now, prior to the work that you did on June the 13th, had you actually gone out on crime scenes and seen other people collect evidence and collect some evidence yourself?
Now, when you listed the number of crime scenes, do you distinguish between a crime scene and a car search?
All right. With respect to your first crime scene, did you actually pick up any evidence at that crime scene?
And was there any biological evidence that was involved in that first crime scene?
Now, when you processed that first crime scene, did you get any feedbacks in terms of how you had done?
We--the people that were processing the scene were given a commendation for the scene.
Okay. Did you also process another crime scene after this and before June the 13th that had biological evidence in it?
Were there any other crime scenes that you participated in before June the 13th that had biological evidence that you physically participated in collecting?
There was one that had biological evidence, but the collection procedure was not the procedures used on the other scenes.
But there was one car search that you were involved in that also had biological evidence?
Now, after June the 13th and before today's date did you participate in any more crime scenes that had biological evidence that needed to be collected?
Now, at the crime lab, the Los Angeles Police Department crime lab, do they have a position that is known as criminalist trainee?
All right. But as you said, there is--to some extent you are being trained in crime scene processing and investigation--
--as a criminalist 1? At the crime scenes that--the crime scenes that you participated in on June the 13th and also on the 14th in the Bronco, if we divide the work of a criminalist up the way that you have suggested into the mental and discretionary type components and the physical collection components--
Okay. Now, going back a second to this mini academy, when you were going through the mini academy, do they actually teach you specifically what the people in serology are going to do with the evidence after you've collected it, in the case of biological evidence?
Now, I would like to direct your attention back to the date of June the 13th, 1994. At some point in the early morning did you receive a telephone call that awakened you?
All right. And did that call notify you that you were to respond to a crime scene?
Now, are all criminalists at the laboratory expected to respond to crime scenes?
Sometimes we are on call for a week. We take the evening calls at night. Sometimes we are assigned to the weekend and it is 24 hours a day.
So on this particular occasion on June 13th did this simply happen to be the occasion that you were on call?
What did you have to do after you got this call notifying you that you needed to respond to a crime scene?
I called my criminalist 3, Mr. Fung, and informed him that we had a scene and we were to meet at the laboratory.
And did the--did you then drive in the truck to the location--to the Rockingham location?
Now, while you were going to the Rockingham location in the truck, was there any conversation with respect to filling out the crime scene identification checklist, the Officer in Charge portion?
Your Honor, at this time I would like to take a look at People's 161 identification.
Maybe we can just focus in on the area that says "OIC name." Okay. You need to pull the paper a little bit over to the right.
What was the conversation that you had with respect to filling out that portion of this form?
Without telling us what the conversation was, there was some conversation about it?
Okay. Now, after you actually got to the location, did you continue to be the--or were you the Officer in Charge after you got to the Rockingham location?
What are the functions of the Officer in Charge, as opposed to the person assisting him or her?
The Officer in Charge, no. 1, talked to the detectives to try to get an idea of what is going on, they make the discretionary calls as to what to pick up as evidence, they interact with the people at the scene, whether it is the detectives, police officers, Coroner's officials.
Now, with respect to People's 189 for identification, when was this document filled out?
I'm sorry. Objection, your Honor. Foundation. We don't even know who filled it out first.
Okay. And you placed--and did you have any conversation with respect to how this form was going to be filled out that you can remember?
Now--thank you. That is fine. By the way, did you do any searching of the interior of the Bronco at any time on the 13th or was that done at some later time?
All right. Now, shortly after you arrived at the Rockingham location did you have any conversations with any detectives who gave you a walk-through of the location?
They showed us some things that they were interested in, they wanted us to take a look at.
At first it was the Bronco and after there were some other items they wanted us to take a look at.
Okay. Now, did you physically collect some of the stains that were located at the Rockingham location that morning, the morning of the 13th?
And did Mr. Fung participate physically in the collection of some of those stains?
Your Honor, at this time I would like to take a look at the demonstration board. It is People's 162 for identification.
Using this demonstration board, can you describe for us, starting with the first cell on People's 162, the steps that are involved in collecting a stain?
All right. And is the first phase in this collection stated on the board the numbering and measuring phase?
The location, measurements, the photo i.d. Numbers and a brief description are noted on the evidence collection sheet.
Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 2 that says "Dampened swatch," what is involved in this stage of the collection procedure?
A small cloth swatch of the approximate size you need is selected with a pair of clean tweezers. A drop of distilled water is put on the swatch. It is then shaken so any excess water is shaken off.
And directing your attention now to cell no. 3 that says "Collect substrate control," what is done in this phase of the correction procedure?
The cloth swatch is placed on the substrate, the concrete or whatever, as close to the stain as possible, but without getting it in the stain, to get a background control of what the sample is on.
So if the item of interest, for example, instead of being on a walkway, were on a wall, what would be the substrate?
What is the purpose of taking this control that is near the stain but not on the stain?
Well, it could be used for two factors: One is to provide a background, what the sample was on, so when they go to run tests on the sample, they can see if the background itself would interfere with the tests. The control can also be checked for DNA or other items of interest to see if any contamination took place.
Now, so this control is basically just a blank swatch that has water on it that is put on the concrete in this example?
So do you handle this piece of evidence exactly--or this piece of swatch exactly the same way that you would handle a swatch that was actually put on the stain?
Why is it that you use the identical handling procedures for the substrate control that you would use for a swatch that was actually put on the stain?
Because you want them to be as identical as possible. The only difference being one will contain the item of interest; the other won't.
Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 4 on People's 1--excuse me--162 for identification, what phase of the collection procedure is shown here?
It looks like the cloth swatch is being placed into a small plastic envelope, small plastic bag. The control is placed in one bag.
Okay. And now directing your attention to cell no. 5 that says "Clean tweezers"--excuse me. I'm sorry. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 5, that says "Clean tweezers" in our demonstration?
Yes. After the control is taken, the tweezers are cleaned with distilled water and a chem wipe, which is like a laboratory Kleenex.
Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 6, which says on our board "Take new swatch, then dampen it," what does this phase of the collection procedure involve?
Our swatches are stored in plastic tubes so you have to take a small selection of them out of the tube without handling them and then you can select the correct size that you need, so that is what is being shown.
It depends on the size of the stain. You want to select a size swatch that is small enough that--so when you apply it to the stain you would get it as concentrated as possible.
Now, in this particular photograph it is kind of hard for me to see that there are actually swatches in that little bottle, but is that what you are saying?
Okay. Now, let's take a look at cell no. 7 that says "Collect stain" and "Number card removed" is in parentheses. What are you doing here?
Right, the same as with the control. You dampen the swatch, shake off the excess water, then you apply the swatch to the stain.
And finally taking a look at cell no. 8 that says, "Package stain in same envelope with substrate control," what is involved in this procedure?
The swatch with the stain is placed in a separate plastic envelope. Both the control and the swatch with the item you are interested in are placed in the same coin envelope with the item number written on the outside.
Now, when you are collecting one of these stains, do you collect one stain at a time?
And I want to ask you some questions about different things that could happen when you are collecting a stain. Do you--do you ever drop the tweezers while you are doing that?
When you are taking a swatch that actually has blood on it, do you ever drop that bloody swatch?
When you are pouring the--maybe pouring is not the right word, but you are taking some of those little swatches out of the container, the little pill bottle--
If you are taking either the control or the actual item, you can use both swatches.
Okay. But what if you have two swatches stuck together? Do you try to separate them or is it possible that you could apply both of them to the stain at the same time, without knowing it?
You can tell if two of them are stuck together. Umm, you separate them and you--you use one swatch at a time, either to pick up the control or to pick up the stain itself.
Okay. And what about the labeling of the coin envelopes? Have you ever mislabeled one of those by writing the wrong item number?
Okay. When are they--when are the envelopes labeled in relationship to when the collection takes place? Before--
--in our demonstration, you are going to put that in an envelope that is labeled what?
Now, when you were at the Rockingham location did you place your initials on all the coin envelopes as you were collecting them?
And do you recall testifying at what we've been referring to or sometimes referred to as a griffin hearing on August 23, I believe, of 1994?
Okay. And in that--when you were testifying at that hearing at that time, did you believe that you had put all of your initials or your initials on all of the items that you had collected on the 13th?
Your Honor, I'm sorry. Move to strike the last answer. It is conclusionary as opposed to testimony.
Now, on the other stains--excuse me--other scenes that you had collected stains on prior to the 13th, had you initialed on those occasions?
There were only going to be two of us at the scenes collecting evidence. We were working as a team, so it really didn't matter if our initials were on the envelopes since we were working as a team.
KEY QUOTENow, as to the crime scene identification checklist that we talked a little bit about, when you testified at the griffin hearing, what was your understanding of how that checklist was supposed to be used?
At the time I thought that everything had to be filled out. The other scenes that I had gone on they had filled out the checklist.
Let's just take a look at the last page of the exhibit. It is 1107 for identification.
Is this the form that you use out in the field when you are collecting evidence?
Okay. Now, prior to testifying at the griffin hearing did you believe that every single box in every single column needed to be filled out?
And as a result of your training and experience after the griffin hearing, did you learn something different?
I learned that this is a general guideline for us. Some of the boxes really don't apply to us at the scene.
Okay. With respect to the time column, have you noticed now, based upon the experience that you have to date, that different criminalists in the Los Angeles Police Department have different practices with respect to how they fill out that column?
Some fill out every single individual time that something is collected. Others put a starting time that they start collecting evidence and an ending time when they stop. Everything that is collected is collected while you are at the scene, so it happens between those two times.
And then are there some people that use what I guess you might call an intermediate type usage of that time column and put in some times, as you did on the 13th?
All right. Now, getting back to the collection of the evidence at Rockingham, perhaps we can take a look at People's 120 for identification. It is the board of Rockingham, the outside stains.
Now, with respect to People's 120 for identification, do you recognize what is depicted here?
It is not going to be on the monitor. Maybe you can just step down for a moment and take a look at this.
And are these photographs that depict various items that you participated in collecting on the 13th at Rockingham?
Now, when you were doing the physical collection on these, do you recall what order they were done in? Were they done in numerical order?
And would that mean that you started with the stains that are down towards the gate?
Now, with respect to the stains that are leading from the Bronco into the driveway area, did you and Dennis Fung physically collect those--
Now, can you tell us, when you first started the collection, can you be more specific as to who was doing what in terms of the physical collection?
As I said, I was the one that collected the stain offer the Bronco, and Mr. Fung collected the stain on the street. When we got to the driveway, he did, I believe it was like the first two stains, and I took over from there and was the one who physically collected the rest.
With respect to the other stains, do you have a recollection of whether he physically participated in collecting any of those?
So at the beginning of the stains he was doing more of the physical collection and then towards the end less?
And with respect to the first phase of the collection procedure, the documentation, the numbering and the measuring phase, how did the two of you work together to accomplish that?
All right. Now, with respect to the stains at the end of the outdoor area, stain no. 7 and stain no. 8, do you recall where Dennis Fung was around the time that those were collected?
Do you recall whether anyone else was present at the time those stains were collected?
Now, with respect to the stains at the Rockingham location, were--was every single last stain collected or were there some that were not collected?
And what is your training with respect to the need to collect every stain as opposed to less than all the stains?
Well, on a trail you want to get a representative sample, you want to get the first few stains, you want to pick up the last few stains. The ones in between, as long as they appear to be going in the general direction, there is nothing out of the ordinary with them, not every single stain has to be collected.
And is that the technique that you and Mr. Fung used with respect to collecting these stains?
All right--you can--I want to ask you some questions that you may have to refer to your crime scene identification checklist for, so you may want to return to the stand.
Mr. Goldberg, are you going to refer back to this exhibit, People's 120, for a minute.
Okay. With respect to the stains numbered 4 through 6 on our diagram, with the photo i.d. Numbers, 4 through 6, down towards the beginning portion of the driveway, can you tell us the time frame that those stains were collected?
I'm sorry, your Honor. The record should reflect that the witness is refreshing her recollection from some notes. May I approach the witness and see?
And with respect to the stains that are up towards the--close to the entrance area, stain no. 7, stain no. 8, what was the time frame of those stains?
Did you have some time frames in your crime scene identification checklist to give us?
Item 7 was collected approximately 9:10. Item 8, approximately fifteen minutes later.
Okay. Now, when you were at the location, from what you saw of all of the stains, did any of them appear to have been stepped in?
Before you left the Rockingham location, did you and Mr. Fung do any--go through any process in terms of double-checking the evidence that you had?
We knew what item numbers we collected. We look at each individual item to make sure that we had everything.
Okay. And is that a routine thing that you have done on the other crime scenes that you were on before this?
At the other crime scenes we make sure that we have everything that we collected.
What did you do with the various coin envelopes that you had with the biological evidence of them--in them?
Were you wearing gloves during the collection procedure of the biological evidence at Rockingham?
And do you know whether you were wearing the same pair of gloves the whole time?
Objection, your Honor, speculative. She said "I probably," and move to strike the answer.
Strained. Rephrase the question. Excuse me. The jury is to disregard the last answer and question.
Do you have a practice at a crime scene to wear the same pair of gloves throughout the entire crime scene?
I change the gloves when they start getting uncomfortable. If I am done possessing an area and I am moving on to a completely separate area, I will change gloves.
By the way, just going back for a second to the blood collection procedure, can you--do you ever touch the blood with your gloved hands?
Is that something that has happened to you by accident where you have touched a bloody swatch with your gloved hands?
Now, what do you do with the gloves that you are wearing at the time that you leave the Rockingham location? Do you keep them on?
No. We take a paper bag which we label "Trash" and any trash that we generate, whether it is used gloves, swabs, chem wipes, anything, goes into this bag and we take it with us.
Now, when you arrived at the Bundy location, from your own independent recollection, what was going on at that location when you arrived?
There were a lot of people there. The Coroners were there. It appeared that there were detectives at the scene.
From your independent recollection do you recall whether you saw the body of either Nicole Brown or Ronald Goldman?
Were you playing--paying close attention to what was going on during this period of time?
Okay. Do you recall an incident where Mr. Fung took a bag over to Mr. Lange, Detective Lange?
Did you ever, from your own independent recollection, recall seeing Nicole Brown at the location with any blanket over here?
And where do you remember seeing it the first time that you can recall seeing it?
Now, I would like to direct your attention to People's 165 for identification, the board showing the Bundy biological evidence.
And do the photographs appear to depict various items of biological evidence that you and Mr. Fung collected on the 13th?
Now, with respect to this diagram, I don't think it is on here, but do you recall the first item of evidence that--biological evidence, rather, that you collected, the first stain?
With respect to the biological evidence in the caged-off area, can you describe for us, in the physical collection procedure, how you and Mr. Fung worked together in collecting that evidence?
He was supervising. He was watching me. After we had marked the numbers, they had been photographed, measured, sketched, he watched as I collected the biological.
Okay. And do you recall whether he did any of the physical collection with respect to those items in the caged-off area?
All right. And did you then begin--which did you do first, the caged-off area or what we referred to as the trail, in terms of collecting biological evidence?
Do you recall any stains now, from your independent recollection, that Mr. Fung physically participated in swatching on the trail?
Item 112, he picked up a little more blood off of that item than I had picked up, and there was one other item farther down the trail that he picked up. I can't remember which one now.
Okay. And does the call-out line depict the general area where that was located?
Now, can you specifically tell us, in terms of item or photo number, where this other item was, or is it just a general recollection?
Can you tell us anything that stands out in your mind about that other stain or the circumstances surrounding the collection of that stain?
Well, I remember that Mr. Fung knelt down and became a little upset because there were several purple berries in the area and he had knelt down on one and had stained his pants, so he was a little upset about that.
Excuse me, counsel. Miss Mazzola, if you would, over the last several questions and answers, you have talked over each other. Miss Mazzola, let Mr. Goldberg finish asking the question. Mr. Goldberg, let her finish answering the question before you start with the next one.
Now, when you were collecting these items along the trail area, I direct your attention to stain no. 50, that is item no. 115, and then stain no. 51, it is down here in the lower right-hand corner.
That is item no. 116. Do you recall specifically why they--why they were numbered in that order?
Okay. Do you--when you were at a scene--when you were at this scene did you make it a practice to number them in some sort of sequence based on the geography of the location?
Now, with respect to stain no. 52, that is item no. 117, do you recall collecting that stain?
Is there anything about that stain or the substrate control on that stain that stands out in your memory?
What stands out in my memory, because when I went to take the control, a red color, pigment came up on the swatch, and that is the first time that has happened to me, so--it was about the same color as the driveway. That is why it stands out.
Other than that, do you recall anything particularly coming up on the control swatches on the other items on the trail?
So the only one that stood out in your mind, in terms of coming up with something on the control, was no. 52?
if he thought we were leaving it out on the bench top, he would confiscate the evidence. And since the evidence was your unknown, you had to buy it back with points, and each report was only with 50 points to begin with, so if you lost 20 points buying your evidence, you more or less couldn't pass that one section.
At the time I thought I did. Looking back I apparently didn't.
There were only going to be two of us at the scenes collecting evidence. We were working as a team, so it really didn't matter if our initials were on the envelopes since we were working as a team.
That again is the discretionary area. You have to look at the whole scene, try to get an idea of what could have happened and start looking for items that could be connected. It is better to pick up a little more than not enough.