📄 Re-redirect examination of Dennis Fung (part 2) — Tuesday, April 18, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\APR\18\RE-REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-DEN.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 59 of 167

Re-redirect examination of Dennis Fung (part 2)

Witness: Dennis Fung
Examiner: Barry Scheck
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, April 18, 1995 • Utterances: 258
Barry Scheck continued his recross-examination of LAPD criminalist Dennis Fung, pressing him on whether his redirect testimony changed his prior account of when the socks were collected (4:30–4:40), and attacking the reliability of his crime-scene reconstruction based on videotape and still photographs rather than independent memory. Scheck also introduced two photographs (Defense 1108 and 1109) showing an evidence card in two different positions near the Bundy envelope, undermining Fung's reconstruction methodology. The examination was interrupted at the end when a broken courthouse photocopier prevented Scheck from obtaining page citations needed to continue impeachment.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open Court:)
2 THE COURT:

Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

3 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Fung, you have told us that you have seen the tape?

4 MR. FUNG:

Yes, or portions of it.

5 MR. SCHECK:

And in this tape you recall seeing that there is a panning shot of the bedroom area and the bed?

6 MR. GOLDBERG:

Vague as to what "Panning shot" means and what area specifically.

7 THE COURT:

Overruled. Do you understand the question?

8 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

9 THE COURT:

Proceed.

10 MR. SCHECK:

And at the point the camera passes over the carpet area and the bed and cuts just at the moment that one would have seen an item in the position of the socks as they were photographed on June 13th?

11 THE COURT:

Is that a question?

12 MR. SCHECK:

Yeah.

13 MR. SCHECK:

Is that what you saw on the tape?

14 MR. FUNG:

There was a panning shot, but I don't believe from the angle that the shot was taken that the socks would have been visible.

15 MR. SCHECK:

All right. When you saw that tape, did you see that at the point that the socks should have appeared the tape cuts?

16 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, it is still vague.

17 MR. SCHECK:

Asking what he saw. Goes to his state of mind.

18 THE COURT:

Overruled.

19 MR. FUNG:

Well, I remember looking for the socks in the videotape and they weren't there--

20 MR. SCHECK:

And, umm--

21 MR. FUNG:

--in the video.

22 MR. SCHECK:

All right. And in your--now, you prepared for this redirect examination over the weekend?

23 MR. FUNG:

We--I came in over the weekend, yes.

24 MR. SCHECK:

How many days?

25 MR. FUNG:

Let's see. Saturday and then I viewed a videotape on Sunday.

26 MR. SCHECK:

What about Friday afternoon?

27 THE COURT:

That is not the weekend.

28 MR. SCHECK:

I understand. That is why I asked the question.

29 MR. FUNG:

No, not on Friday afternoon.

30 MR. SCHECK:

And was it over the weekend that you saw this videotape?

31 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, it is vague as to which videotape.

32 MR. SCHECK:

The videotape of the interior of Rockingham?

33 MR. FUNG:

I did not view the videotape of Rockingham that day.

34 MR. SCHECK:

When did you view the videotape of Rockingham?

35 MR. FUNG:

It was the day after--to the best of my recollection it was the day after the hearing for the videotape with the photographers and the detectives were--

36 MR. SCHECK:

So you were aware--

37 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, perhaps we can at some point get the Court to take judicial notice of that date.

38 THE COURT:

I don't recall myself when the date was.

39 MR. GOLDBERG:

I don't either.

40 THE COURT:

All right. Mrs. Robertson will give that to us.

41 MR. SCHECK:

Have you spoken to any of the people at SID who testified at that hearing about the videotape?

42 MR. FUNG:

In what regard?

43 MR. SCHECK:

Well, have you spoken to a Mr. Adkins?

44 MR. FUNG:

I have spoken to Mr. Adkins.

45 MR. SCHECK:

About the videotape?

46 MR. FUNG:

Just that he was going to have to testify because it was taken.

47 MR. SCHECK:

Uh-huh. And was there discussion between the two of you about a time on the videotape that would indicate when that videotape was taken of objects in Mr. Simpson's master bedroom?

48 MR. GOLDBERG:

Hearsay, your Honor.

49 THE COURT:

Overruled. Was there a discussion of that? Yes or no?

50 MR. FUNG:

No.

51 MR. SCHECK:

And what about--you know a gentleman named Ford?

52 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

53 MR. SCHECK:

And do you know if he testified at the hearing?

54 MR. FUNG:

I believe he did.

55 MR. SCHECK:

And did you have a discussion with him about the time on the videotape where it depicts items in Mr. Simpson's master bedroom?

56 MR. FUNG:

No.

57 MR. SCHECK:

In your preparations for redirect examination with the Prosecutors did you have a discussion with them about the times on the videotape which shows items in Mr. Simpson's master bedroom?

58 MR. FUNG:

I believe the subject came up.

59 MR. SCHECK:

And when the subject came up, did they press you to change your testimony that the collection of the socks happened between 4:30 and 4:40?

60 MR. FUNG:

No.

61 MR. SCHECK:

Did they press you to say that your collection of the socks was not necessarily after item no. 12 and before item no. 14?

62 MR. FUNG:

No.

63 MR. SCHECK:

In other words, your testimony on redirect examination that you are no longer sure if the sock was collected--socks were collected between 4:30 and 4:40 was just something that you decided to say on redirect examination without any consideration of the time on that videotape?

64 MR. GOLDBERG:

It is argumentative, misstates the testimony.

65 THE COURT:

Overruled.

66 MR. FUNG:

My testimony then was and still is to the best of my memory.

67 MR. SCHECK:

Is that your answer?

68 MR. FUNG:

Yes, it is.

69 MR. SCHECK:

Well, isn't there a difference between the way you testified about the time in which the socks were collected and the order in which the socks were collected on redirect examination versus your direct examination and cross-examination?

70 MR. GOLDBERG:

Calls for speculation, compound.

71 THE COURT:

Sustained.

72 MR. SCHECK:

Well, you had read to you questions and answers of what you said on direct?

73 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

74 MR. SCHECK:

And you had questions and answers of what you said on cross-examination about this?

75 MR. FUNG:

During some portion, yes.

76 MR. SCHECK:

I just did that with you now, right?

77 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

78 MR. SCHECK:

And then on your redirect examination do you not concede, sir, that your testimony changed?

79 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative, calls for speculation.

80 THE COURT:

Overruled.

81 MR. FUNG:

I answered the question with different words, yes.

KEY QUOTE
82 MR. SCHECK:

Well, the different words that you used were a change in when the time--which of the words that you used constituted a change in the time that you could have collected the socks?

83 MR. GOLDBERG:

I object. That misstates the evidence. There was no change in time.

84 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

85 MR. SCHECK:

When you answered on redirect, you are now saying that you did not know if the socks were collected in between 4:30 and 4:40, right?

86 MR. GOLDBERG:

Misstates the testimony.

87 THE COURT:

Sustained.

88 MR. SCHECK:

Were you asked: "Question: And can you tell us whether those--whether those--between the collection of item 12 and item 14 by looking at your crime scene checklist? "Answer: It was collected within that time frame. I don't know if it was collected in between those two times, though. "Question: What are the two time frames? What is the time frame for 12? "Answer: The time frame is 4:30. "Question: And that was the stain in the foyer? "Answer: Yes. "Question: And what is the time for 14? "Answer: The time for 14 is 4:40. "And that was the stain in the master bedroom? "Answer: Yes. "Question: Now, just--I just want to make sure I understood your testimony. Do you know whether you collected--whether you collected 13 in between 12 and 14? "Answer: I know it was in that time frame, but I do not specifically recall nor can I tell from my notes if they were. "Question: For sure? "Answer: For sure." Were you asked those questions and did you give those answers?

89 MR. GOLDBERG:

That was asked and answered. Argumentative.

90 THE COURT:

Overruled. You can answer the question.

91 MR. FUNG:

I was asked those questions.

92 MR. SCHECK:

Now, you don't think that that is different than your direct testimony?

93 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative.

94 THE COURT:

Sustained.

95 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Fung, is this a habit you have of suddenly becoming vague if you think it is going to help the Prosecution's position?

KEY QUOTE
96 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative.

97 THE COURT:

Sustained.

98 MR. SCHECK:

Now, you were asked some questions on redirect examination about the videos of Bundy and a three-dimensional brown object on the blanket. Do you recall that?

99 MR. FUNG:

I don't remember--I never--I don't recall it being a three-dimensional--saying it was three-dimensional. There was a dark object on the walkway area.

100 MR. SCHECK:

And--one minute, your Honor.

101 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
102 MR. SCHECK:

Now, you spent a lot of time going over those videotapes with the Prosecutors, haven't you?

103 MR. FUNG:

I spent some time looking at the videotapes and going over still photographs.

104 MR. SCHECK:

How much time?

105 MR. FUNG:

Well, about a half hour, an hour maybe.

106 MR. SCHECK:

That's all?

107 MR. FUNG:

That's all.

108 MR. SCHECK:

From the time you first saw those videotapes to the time you came in here and testified about it on redirect examination, you only reviewed those for a half hour?

109 MR. GOLDBERG:

It is vague as to which videotape.

110 THE COURT:

He said half hour to an hour.

111 MR. SCHECK:

Half hour to an hour?

112 MR. GOLDBERG:

Still vague as to which videotape.

113 THE COURT:

Overruled.

114 MR. SCHECK:

You can answer.

115 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

116 MR. SCHECK:

Now, I think you testified on redirect examination that when you looked at the video and the stills you were going through a process of reconstruction?

117 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

118 MR. SCHECK:

And you had no independent memory--withdrawn. And part of that--and in your reconstruction of the stills and the videotape, you had a very specific recollection of putting down a card near a pole at a certain point in time?

119 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, it is vague and unintelligible as phrased, your Honor.

120 THE COURT:

Overruled.

121 MR. GOLDBERG:

Whether he is talking about the tape or his--

122 THE COURT:

Overruled.

123 MR. FUNG:

I had a recollection of putting a card down by the pole?

124 MR. SCHECK:

Yeah.

125 MR. FUNG:

I don't think that is a recollection. That is something that I saw happen in the videotape.

126 MR. SCHECK:

All right. So in other words, you had no independent memory of exactly what you did in putting down the cards? You just looked at the videotape and looked at still photographs and sort of made up what you think happened?

127 MR. GOLDBERG:

That is argumentative, your Honor.

128 THE COURT:

Sustained.

129 MR. SCHECK:

You looked at the still photographs and you looked at the videotape and you tried to reconstruct what you think happened?

130 MR. FUNG:

I looked at the videotape, I looked at still photos, and with what I remember from the crime scene, I came up with a reconstruction.

131 MR. SCHECK:

Well, your memory of the crime scene, did it include exactly what cards you put down next to the objects and in what order you did them?

132 MR. GOLDBERG:

It is overbroad as to "Cards."

133 THE COURT:

Sustained.

134 MR. SCHECK:

Do you have an independent--did you have an independent recollection of which cards you put down at what time?

135 MR. GOLDBERG:

It is still vague as to place.

136 THE COURT:

Sustained.

137 MR. SCHECK:

As to any of the cards that you put down--

138 THE COURT:

At Bundy?

139 MR. SCHECK:

At Bundy with respect to the glove, the hat and the envelope, did you have a specific recollection of what you did and when you did it?

140 MR. FUNG:

I don't have specific recollection as to what exact time it is, but I do know what order I did things in.

141 MR. SCHECK:

Well, when you put the cards down, do you have an independent recollection as to whether or not you put a card down in one location and then before the photographer took a picture decided to move it to a somewhat different place?

142 MR. GOLDBERG:

Assumes facts not in evidence.

143 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

144 MR. SCHECK:

At any time when you were putting down the card near the hat, the glove and the envelope, do you have a specific recollection about putting down a card and just leaving it in the first place you put it?

145 MR. FUNG:

No.

146 MR. SCHECK:

Could you have put down a card and then decided to move it a little bit?

147 MR. FUNG:

That is a possibility.

148 MR. SCHECK:

And isn't it true, sir, that the reconstruction that you went through of the still photographs and the videotape are based on the assumption that you put certain cards down, left them in positions and didn't change them and you did it in a certain order?

149 MR. FUNG:

My reconstruction is based on that, plus the fact that I would not move the evidence until a photograph had been taken.

150 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
151 MR. SCHECK:

Do you have a specific recollection--withdrawn. Could it have been, sir, that when you were putting down a card by the hat, that you put it down at one place at first and then moved it to another?

152 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, that calls for speculation.

153 THE COURT:

Sustained the way it is phrased.

154 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
155 MR. SCHECK:

Well, based on your recollection of the crime scene, is that something that you could have done?

156 MR. GOLDBERG:

It still calls for speculation.

157 THE COURT:

Sustained.

158 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
159 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I have two photographs that I would like to have marked as Defendant's next in order. One would be then--

160 THE CLERK:

1108.

161 MR. SCHECK:

1108 and the next one, 1109.

162 (Deft's 1108 for id = photograph)
163 (Deft's 1109 for id = photograph)
164 MR. SCHECK:

And I would like to put 1108 on the elmo, if I may.

165 THE COURT:

All right.

166 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
167 (Brief pause.)
168 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, I would like to object to showing these photographs. Perhaps we can approach.

169 THE COURT:

What is the basis, legal basis?

170 MR. GOLDBERG:

Legal basis is it is not impeaching; therefore not relevant.

171 THE COURT:

Overruled.

172 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
173 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Fung, I would like to direct your attention to the envelope. Do you see that?

174 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

175 MR. SCHECK:

Do you see where the card is behind the envelope?

176 MR. FUNG:

Yes, I do.

177 MR. SCHECK:

And that is an envelope--that is--that would be no. 104, which would be the photo i.d. Of the envelope? Why don't you check.

178 MR. GOLDBERG:

May the record reflect that he is checking in what appears to be his crime scene identification checklist notebook?

179 THE COURT:

Yes.

180 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

181 MR. SCHECK:

Are you checking a page that indicates the time in which these objects were collected?

182 MR. FUNG:

No.

183 MR. SCHECK:

Because you didn't write down in your evidence item collection sheet the time that these items were collected?

184 MR. FUNG:

The times were not written down at Bundy.

185 MR. SCHECK:

So when you went through this reconstruction with the still photographs and the videotapes, you didn't even have the times that the items were collected?

186 MR. GOLDBERG:

That is argumentative as phrased.

187 THE COURT:

Sustained.

188 MR. SCHECK:

Now, I would ask to show the next item.

189 THE COURT:

All right. 1109.

190 (Brief pause.)
191 MR. SCHECK:

Do you recognize that to be a picture of the envelope again?

192 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

193 MR. SCHECK:

And that is card 104?

194 MR. FUNG:

Yes.

195 MR. SCHECK:

And that is in a different position in that photograph?

196 MR. FUNG:

What? The envelope is in the same position.

197 MR. SCHECK:

The envelope is in the same position, but the card is in a different position?

198 MR. GOLDBERG:

That is argumentative.

199 THE COURT:

Sustained.

200 MR. GOLDBERG:

Motion to strike.

201 MR. SCHECK:

Is the card in a different position?

202 MR. GOLDBERG:

Asked and answered.

203 THE COURT:

Overruled.

204 MR. FUNG:

Yes, the card is in a different position, but that is not uncommon for the card to be moved in a different position for photographic purposes.

KEY QUOTE
205 MR. SCHECK:

All right. It is not uncommon at all to be moving these cards around during the process of still photography?

206 MR. FUNG:

That's correct.

207 MR. SCHECK:

But your entire reconstruction, without independent recollection, based on the videotape and the still photographs, is based on a very specific judgment about which cards were placed down in what order?

KEY QUOTE
208 MR. GOLDBERG:

It is unintelligible and overbroad.

209 THE COURT:

Overruled.

210 MR. FUNG:

My reconstruction was based on those factors, plus my practice of not moving evidence--

211 MR. SCHECK:

So--

212 MR. FUNG:

--until photographs are taken.

213 MR. SCHECK:

So the basic assumption here is that you don't move evidence before it is photographed?

214 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, it is vague.

215 MR. FUNG:

That is my general practice.

216 MR. SCHECK:

Well, that is what you did here?

217 MR. FUNG:

That is what I did here.

218 MR. SCHECK:

And it would be your general practice to report if someone moved evidence from the position in which it was originally found to a different position?

219 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, it is overbroad.

220 THE COURT:

Overruled. This is something we've already gone into.

221 MR. SCHECK:

I'm moving into it right now.

222 MR. SCHECK:

You were asked questions on redirect examination about why you thought the scene might have been altered?

223 MR. FUNG:

I don't specifically recall that line of questioning.

224 MR. SCHECK:

Do you recall questions on redirect examination about your responsibility to find out who might have altered the crime scene?

225 MR. FUNG:

In redirect?

226 MR. SCHECK:

Yes.

227 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, his ability to recall testimony is irrelevant.

228 THE COURT:

Overruled.

229 MR. SCHECK:

Were you asked these questions and did you give these answers on redirect examination?

230 MR. GOLDBERG:

I need a citation.

231 THE COURT:

Sustained.

232 MR. SCHECK:

Well, your Honor, we don't have page citations. I can--

233 THE COURT:

You need to give page citations. If you can't give page citations, you can't do it.

234 MR. SCHECK:

Well, we don't have--

235 (Brief pause.)
236 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, do we have a page number from yesterday's transcript? We have live notes. I have the questions and answers.

237 THE COURT:

Check with the Court reporter.

238 (Brief pause.)
239 THE COURT:

Do you have something else you can move on to?

240 MR. SCHECK:

No.

241 THE COURT:

How much more do you have?

242 MR. SCHECK:

I think an hour.

243 THE COURT:

Let me check and see on the availability of our daily transcript.

244 (Discussion held off the record between the Court and the Court reporter.)
245 THE COURT:

We have had a photocopy repair person since 8:30 this morning working on our machines.

KEY QUOTE
246 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, would it be--

247 THE COURT:

Do we have a master copy that is available?

248 REPORTER OLSON:

Yes.

249 THE COURT:

Miss Olson, would you check on that, please. Apparently Miss Moxham stepped away.

250 (Brief pause.)
251 THE COURT:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, if you want to stand and stretch for a moment, we will have the Court reporter get the transcript from yesterday.

252 (Brief pause.)
253 THE COURT:

All right. We will give Mr. Scheck a moment to locate the passage.

254 MR. SCHECK:

Without a computer--

255 THE COURT:

Mr. Scheck, if you like, I will take a 15-minute recess at this point.

256 MR. SCHECK:

Well, your Honor, it is just--you know, I can get these on the computer, I can get right to the page, but without the transcript page number, if we can't--

257 THE COURT:

Let's do this: Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take a 15-minute recess at this point. Please remember all my admonitions. Do not discuss this case among yourselves, don't form any opinions, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you, do not allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. We will stand in recess for fifteen minutes. All right.

258 (Recess.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Dennis Fung
I answered the question with different words, yes.
Fung effectively concedes his redirect testimony differed from earlier accounts of the sock collection timeline, while trying to minimize the admission.
Barry Scheck
Mr. Fung, is this a habit you have of suddenly becoming vague if you think it is going to help the Prosecution's position?
One of Scheck's most direct attacks on Fung's credibility, suggesting deliberate evasion — sustained as argumentative but the implication landed in front of the jury.
Dennis Fung
Yes, the card is in a different position, but that is not uncommon for the card to be moved in a different position for photographic purposes.
Fung concedes evidence cards were moved during photography, which directly undercuts his reconstruction of the order items were collected.
Barry Scheck
But your entire reconstruction, without independent recollection, based on the videotape and the still photographs, is based on a very specific judgment about which cards were placed down in what order?
Scheck frames the core methodological problem: Fung's reconstruction rests on assumptions that are now shown to be unreliable.
Lance A. Ito
We have had a photocopy repair person since 8:30 this morning working on our machines.
Explains why the proceeding ends abruptly — no transcript citations available, halting Scheck's planned impeachment.

Evidence (5)

Defense 1108
Photograph of Bundy crime scene showing evidence card near the envelope (card in one position)
introduced, displayed on Elmo
Defense 1109
Second photograph of the same Bundy envelope showing the evidence card in a different position
introduced, displayed; used to show card was moved during photography
Informal
Videotape of interior of Rockingham (Simpson's master bedroom), showing panning shot where socks should have appeared
discussed; Fung testified socks were not visible on the tape
Informal
Videotapes of Bundy crime scene with still photographs, used by Fung for reconstruction of collection order
discussed; Scheck challenged reliability of reconstruction based on them
Informal
Fung's crime scene identification checklist notebook, referenced for item numbers and times
consulted by Fung during testimony; no times recorded for Bundy items

Notable Exchanges (4)

Barry ScheckDennis Fung
Scheck reads back Fung's redirect testimony word-for-word about not knowing if socks were collected between 4:30 and 4:40, then asks if that differs from his direct testimony. Fung admits he 'answered the question with different words.'
strategic
Barry ScheckDennis Fung
Using photos 1108 and 1109, Scheck demonstrates the evidence card near the Bundy envelope moved between two photographs. Fung concedes the card was in a different position but says it is common practice to move cards for photographic purposes — which then undermines his reconstruction methodology.
revealing
Barry ScheckDennis Fung
Scheck presses Fung on whether prosecutors urged him to change his timeline testimony during weekend preparation. Fung denies any pressure, saying the redirect testimony reflected his own recollection.
strategic
Lance A. ItoBarry Scheck
Scheck is halted mid-impeachment because he cannot provide page citations from yesterday's transcript — the courthouse photocopier has been broken since 8:30 a.m. Ito calls a 15-minute recess.
procedural

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito
The courthouse photocopier has been broken all morning, preventing access to daily transcripts. Ito drily announces 'We have had a photocopy repair person since 8:30 this morning working on our machines,' bringing the high-stakes cross-examination to a halt over a mundane equipment failure.
Barry Scheck
Scheck complains he could find the transcript page instantly on a computer but can't navigate the paper copy; Ito offers a 15-minute recess rather than watch him search.

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ Dennis Fung
prior inconsistent statement
Scheck reads back Fung's direct and redirect testimony verbatim to show his account of when the socks were collected shifted — Fung ultimately concedes he 'answered the question with different words.'
⚔ Dennis Fung
demonstrative evidence contradicting reconstruction
Defense photos 1108 and 1109 show the same evidence card in two different positions near the Bundy envelope, proving cards were moved during photography and undermining Fung's reconstruction of collection order.
⚔ Dennis Fung
bias / improper preparation
Scheck questions whether prosecutors pressured Fung to soften his timeline testimony during weekend prep sessions, implying his redirect testimony was shaped to help the prosecution.
⚔ Dennis Fung
lack of independent recollection
Scheck establishes that Fung's reconstruction of the Bundy collection sequence was based entirely on videotape and still photos reviewed over only half an hour, with no independent memory, and that no times were recorded for Bundy items in his notes.

Witness Demeanor

Fung is guarded and careful throughout, frequently qualifying answers ('to the best of my recollection,' 'I don't specifically recall').
No stage directions indicating emotional reactions.

Objections

25 objections (10 sustained, 13 overruled)
Proceeding 5749 • 258 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 APR 18, 1995 📄 Re-redirect examination of Den
APR 18, 1995 KRT DvH TD