I was born in China.

And did you subsequently go to Taiwan?

Yes.

And in 1960, Dr. Lee, what did you do?

In 1960, I was a police captain in Taiwan Police Department.

Did you graduate from Taiwan police college?

Yes.

And how long did you remain a captain in the Taiwan police department?

Approximately five years.

Were you the youngest Chinese ever to be made a captain in the Taiwan Police Department?

Exactly.

When did you develop an interest in science, Dr. Lee?

During my career as a police captain, involving investigation of a crime, crime-scene investigation, I start developing an interest in crime-scene investigation of physical evidence. I tried to find a better way to solving cases.

All right. And when you're working in a police department, you did cases where you investigated the crime scene?

Yes, sir.

Did you also do evidence comparison and interview -- interrogation of witnesses?

Yes, sir.

All right. Now, how long did you remain in Taiwan as a police captain, sir?

Approximately five years.

And in 1964, did you leave Taiwan?

Yes.

And where did you go then, sir?

I went to Maylasia first.

And did you then leave the Taiwan Police Department?

Yes.

And how long did you stay in Maylasia?

Approximately a year.

Okay. And then in 1965, what did you next do, Dr. Lee?

I decided to come to United States to further my study.

Okay. And where did you come to the United States?

New York, to John Jay College of Criminal Justice. That's part of a city university.

And did you go there on a scholarship, sir?

Yes, I got some financial assistance.

In what -- what is or was at the time John Jay College?

John Jay College, at that time, probably has the best reputation in the country of the best forensic program. Also have excellent faculties that encourage me to go to school, to further my study.

And what, sir, caused your interest in forensic science to lead you to John Jay University?

I was a police officer/detective, and I always have a curiosity, interest in forensic science. However, my degree in Taiwan as police science -- I don't have a degree in nature science. At the time I work at the NYU Medical Center -- that's a graduate school, medical school level. I need the bachelor's degree to continue my graduate study. John Jay College is geographically very close to NYU Medical Center, also have a good reputation, and they gave me some financial assistance.

Okay. Now, was John Jay College the first college to offer a degree in forensic science?

I think that time Berkeley also offers the degree.

Okay. At that time, did you meet Peter DeForest, the gentleman sitting in the room?

Yes.

And he was a professor at that time?

Yes.

And at -- that was at John Jay College?

Yes.

Now, when did you ultimately get your degree from John Jay College?

I forgot the exact date. 1970 or something like that.

All right. Now, in terms of while you went to John Jay College, were you working full-time at NYU?

Yes.

Did you to go night school at John Jay College?

Yes. Most of the courses is nighttime.

How long did it take you to get your Bachelor of Science degree at John Jay College, going at night?

Year and a half, two years.

And then, two years later, did you get your master's degree in biochemistry from NYU in 1974?

Yes; two years later, I get my master degree of science from NYU.

And your principal tutor at NYU is Serrio Ochia, the Nobel laureate in medical genetics; is that right?

Yes.

And you then, in a single year, received your Ph.D.; is that correct?

Yes, correct.

What was your Ph.D. in?

Ph.D. in molecular biology/biochemistry.

And that was when, approximately 1975?

1975.

Okay. Now, after you had your Ph.D., what did you then do, Dr. Lee?

I started looking for jobs.

Okay. And where did you find the job?

I tried different places. As a matter of fact, I had Dr. DeForest also assist me looking for positions and I got couple offers, some to stay in a research area, continue my biochemistry study. In addition to that, I received a couple offers to teach forensic science. One of the offer for University of New Haven, I took that offer.

And, Doctor, that was 21 years ago, correct?

Yes.

Do you still teach at the University of New Haven?

Yes, I still teach at University of New Haven.

Now, in 1976, were you promoted to run the program at the University of New Haven?

Yes. I've become the program chairman, and I first associate professor. One year later, I become a full professor.

As a full professor, were you tenured?

Yes.

What does tenure mean?

Tenure, basically, the school recognize your acomplishments and your contribution to teaching and in the community affair and to your profession, which means if you -- you have a job for your life.

And then there's no termination once you're tenured; is that correct?

Unless you have some criminal activity or other illegal activity, no termination.

You were tenured within three years of getting your Ph.D.; is that correct?

Yes, sir.

All right. Now, Doctor, back in 1975, when you went to the University of New Haven, did you start investigating criminal cases at this time?

Even before that time, yes.

Okay. And what type of agencies or governmental agencies did you work for?

Start with most. The majority of agencies agency are public defenders' office, private attorneys, with a small fraction of law-enforcement agencies or prosecutors' office.

All right. Now, over the years, did you work, then, for additional law-enforcement agencies?

Yes. At that time, University New Haven, we start to develop a laboratory, testing laboratory, which I'm also the director of that laboratory -- provide forensic services to the community. Gradually, more and more police department, fire department, District Attorney's office around the country utilize our services.

And do you -- did you, in the '70s, do work for the New York police?

Yes, sir.

The Greenburg police?

Work with Dr. DeForest on cases.

And did you, over the years, become well-known, both nationally and internationally, as a criminalist?

Yes. Gradually, I got recognized by our peers and law-enforcement community.

When you started the forensic lab at -- at the University of New Haven, could you tell me how many people were full-time, how many people were part-time?

Start with university in 1975. I'm the only faculty, only have two full-time student and few part-time students, without a laboratory, only a few simple pieces of equipment. By 1978, we have four full-time faculties. We probably have approximately 100 students, and we'll have a more well-equipped laboratory.

Doctor, let's fast-forward to 1996. Can you tell us how many employees, students and faculty, you had in the program at the University of New Haven?

In 1996, we further added couple other faculty, including one of my former professor, Dr. Gaensalen. He also a colleague of mine. And there many other faculties join the university. We start our graduate program now. There was only undergraduate. Graduate program only take about 15 graduate students each year, try to maintain a good, high-quality program.

And how many undergraduate students do have you presently?

We develop a program call Law Enforcement Science. By that time, possibly 200 students in that program.

And how many faculty members do you have roughly in the undergraduate program?

In total program, law enforcement and criminal justice, approximately 13, 14 faculties.

Now, Doctor, is it -- did you hire one of your former professors at John Jay College to work in your program?

Yes, sir.

Okay. And that's Dr. --

Gaensalen. He's a very highly respected forensic scientist in the field.

Now, I want to go back into the chronology, if I may. In 1979, you officially joined the Connecticut State Police; is that correct, sir?

Before 1979, I -- I guess, advisor for Connecticut State Police Laboratory, in 1979 officially. May 1970, Governor Grasso offered me a job of director, chief criminalist, the first chief criminalist for the State of Connecticut.

And in 1980, Doctor, then -- Governor Grasso then gave you another job, did he not?

Yes. The State offered me as the director of the laboratory.

And you have been the director of the forensic laboratory from 1982, and including the present time, correct?

Yes, sir.

And right now, you are now building a new, modern facility as a forensic laboratory, are you not?

Half of the laboratory already accomplished; the other half, hopefully by next year, we will be finished.

And give us just a general description of the laboratory you were in till you got the new laboratory and the change from the size of the laboratory.

It's a long history. And I started in the men's room, literally convert a men's room about one-tenth of this room, with one microscope. I have 27 state troopers work for me, sergeants and lieutenant troopers. Now, we have about 43 civilian-type scientists. Eleven have their Ph.D.s, M.D. terminal degree. The majority finished a master degree. The equipment in the laboratory now possibly over 40 million dollars through the grants foundation, contribution, and bonded money. The laboratory now have 14 sections. Early days, we just worked together. Very little type of services we can provide to the community. The majority of my activity at that time involving crime scene, actual crime-scene investigation and bring to the lab for microscopic comparison and analysis. Nowadays, we have immunology section, biology section, DNA section, chemistry section, trace section, firearm, document, fingerprint, imprint, reconstruction, all variety of sections. I'm very lucky. Have many good people work with me.

Doctor, in terms of the -- your history from 1975, the last 21 years, you went from the men's room to a thoroughly modern forensic science lab; is that correct?

That's correct.

Now, you have worked on the case that we're here on as an independent consultant previously, have you not?

Yes, sir.

And does that indicate your -- is that on your own time, as contrasted to the time for the -- that you put in for the State of Connecticut?

Yes. This is not my official capacity. I work on this case as a total independent consultant, use my own time.

Now, in terms of what your lab handles in Connecticut, how many police departments do you handle the forensic or crime-scene evidence for?

Our laboratory currently serve 174 police department, 189 fire departments, 14 judicial district, plus about 30 other state, local, federal law-enforcement agencies in state.

And do you also receive cases submitted to you from states other than Connecticut?

Yes. Many, many cases fall from other state.

Do you have other states, for example -- for example, up here in New England?

Yes. All of the New England cases, including Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, constantly we're working with them on cases. At this moment, all those five states, this moment, I'm working cases with them. Those are major cases.

All right. And do you work on cases from states other than New England?

Yes.

California, for example?

Yes.

The L.

County Sheriff's Department?

Yes.

Hawaii?

Yes. Many cases in Hawaii.

Alaska?

Alaska. Montana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Virginia, New York, Pennsylvania.

Almost every state in the country?

Almost every sate.

Now, you get your cases, Dr. Lee, in three different ways, true?

Yes.

And how is it that the cases are referred to you as the director of the forensics lab?

The first type of cases, official submission, case submitted through the law enforcement agency to our laboratory. By official capacity, we examine those cases. The second type of cases, if one state request the other state for assistance, for example, right in moment, Pennsylvania's State Commissioner asked our commissioner for assistance. A potential homicide investigation. West Virginia commissioner asked our state police state commissioner, so that kind of through one state to another, to another state, request of the third, basically, in the individual contact referee, people would refer back and forth. Also some through University. That's an independent consultants' cases, nothing to do with the laboratory.

Now, at the federal level, that is for the United States Government, as contrasted to the state government, do you do work for the federal government?

Yes, sir.

Tell us about your relationship with the FBI.

Very close. And FBI have excellent laboratory. They always give state local laboratories support. Over the years, I've been as their chairman of research training committee for many years and -- until I resigned about six years ago. I still have very close contact with many laboratory examiners and FBI laboratory people.

Have you ever lectured at the FBI Academy?

Yes, sir.

And what have you lectured upon?

Quite a few different subjects area.

For example, crime reconstruction?

Yes.

Sexual assault?

Yes.

How about trace evidence?

Participate in some lecture in trace evidence, too.

Now, ASCLAD is a group that you're a member of; is that not correct?

Yes.

And what does ASCLAD stand for?

That stand for American Crime Laboratory Directors Association.

And does the ASCLAD and the FBI Shave a close relationship?

Yes.

And have you ever been, for example, an editor, or had anything to do with any journals that the FBI has published?

I was the editor for FBI Crime Laboratory Digest for many years.

I want to go back a little bit we're still on the federal. Have you done any work for the United States, such as the Defense Department?

Yes.

What did you do for the defense department?

Involving examination of physical evidence, involving testing, the procedure -- technique I developed, which is used by their laboratory.

Okay. Did you assist the Defense Department in a homicide case in Korea?

Yes.

And how about with the Justice Department? Have you ever done any work for the United States Department of Justice?

Yes.

What have you done in that regard, sir?

The most recent one is for an independent counsel Vincent Foster untimely death case.

Now, Doctor, we've on international investigations have you been asked by other heads of other countries or administrations of the countries outside the United States to investigate?

Yes.

And how about -- can you give us an example?

Two days ago I was in Taiwan to assist the serial rapist, serial arson investigation. Also, some kidnap and legislator was kidnapped. I was -- I was asked to review the case and asked to reinvestigate the case.

Now, Dr. Lee, in terms of working with the defense or the prosecution in a criminal case, what would you say is the percent of times that you work for the prosecution as contrasted to the times that you had worked for the defense?

Okay. When you are working for the prosecution, and the defense experts want to observe experiments or look at evidence in your lab, do you allow them to do that?

Yes, I allow them, and I think that's healthy and have an independent expert come to exam. We'll have nothing to hide. I will welcome with open arms, especially defense expert have credential, have recognized as an expert. I have nothing to hide about it.

Do you let defense experts, for example, in cases you're assisting the prosecution, join in the experiment that you do?

Yes. I will let them observe or join, even have coffee with me together, have tea, and work together as a team.

All right. And do you have to close down the lab anything of that sort to let the defense expert in to look at evidence or assist you in an experiment?

No. That activity goes on. Laboratory just have so many cases. The defense expert allowed to walk around. In other words, have all the freedom. I'm not restrict them, say have to stay in one spot.

Now, Doctor, is it your practice and procedure to let defense experts roam freely in the laboratory?

Depends on the defense expert. They want to work in conference room, we'll set up in the conference room. Defense expert say I want to work in the lab bench, I let them work in the lab bench. If defense say I want to use men's room, I let them use men's room (laughter).

Very kind of you. If they want to use the ladies room, if they're ladies, you let them use the ladies room?

Let them use the ladies room, sometimes buy them lunch if they're people I respect.

Thank you very much. Doctor, have you published any papers?

Yes.

Approximately how many?

I lost track. Maybe 200, 300, something in that neighborhood.

And what are the different areas that you have published papers in?

Early days, Dr. DeForest basically my principal co-author on many papers. Subsequently, Dr. Gaensalen, we'll work on a lot of paper together, and most recently basically myself and the my co-workers work together. Area covers serological evidence, typing, ABO grouping isoenzyme, DNA, trace evidence, a sell ran, crime scene, enhancements of shoe print, impression, marks at the scene. Most recently I'm very interested in writing about reconstruction, how to put the case together. Of course, other areas such as blood-stain pattern interpretation, hair examinations -- right at this moment I'm working on five different subject area: One is involving trace evidence in traffic accident reconstruction; one deals in DNA; another area in the ethics in forensic area, forensic scientist ruled in the trial should not be bias, should not be -- say, if you're a prosecution witness, you're okay, once you become a defense witness, you're -- you become a hired gun or a whore. That should be a court appointed witness, so area like that.

Doctor, how many books or monographs have you written major chapters in?

Approximately 20.

What's a monograph?

Monograph is a booklet that deals with a specific area. For example, recently my co-worker and myself, Dr. Gaensalen, we receive a grant for a National Institute of Justice to study the rape -- the crime of rape. We publish it or publish a monograph in regards to the rape investigation; how to collect evidence, how to preserve evidence, what that type of genetic marker can use for identifying somebody or also the limitation of such tests.

Doctor, some of the books used as textbooks in forensic science --

Yes.

-- that you've written? And give me an example, if you can, of a book that's used as a textbook in forensic science?

One of the best books is co-author with Dr. DeForest and Dr. Gaensalen called Forensic Science Introduction to Criminalistics. That's probably one of the best textbook on the market now.

And how long has that textbook been out?

That book been published for quite a few years. Currently it's under -- we're under revision for second edition.

I'm getting rewired. That's okay. Let me get to -- got to redress. We okay? Pardon me for the interruption, Doctor. I had to get rewired here with a different mike.

Doctor, have you written in Physical Evidence in Forensic Science?

We.

And what have you written in that regard, sir?

Physical Evidence for -- over the years I work with the detectives and police officer, fire marshals, I found an urgent need to provide them some guideline, how to recognize potential evidence, how to collect the evidence, document the evidence and preserve the evidence, and properly submit to the laboratory. I'm also -- they should know what's the laboratory capability, what the test means, the positive, negative, inconclusive. So physical evidence in Forensic Science basically is a -- not the technical manual, but the book provide the law enforcement community, sometime attorneys, prosecutor, defense attorney, a quick reference guide on different category of physical evidence, and understand the underlying principle and the current status of analytic and procedure.

That monograph on physical evidence of physical forensic, physical evidence has been widely distributed?

Yes.

What languages has that monograph been published in?

It's been published in English, but been translated by many countries now; in Chinese, both from Taiwan and China, Korea and Spanish and Arabic.

And Crime-Scene Investigation, is that a book that you've written as well?

Yes. Recently I finish a book called Crime-Scene Investigation.

And is that a textbook monograph? What is it?

A textbook on -- basically dealing with the crime-scene procedures specifically. This book is co-authored with some laboratory people.

All right. Doctor, let's move to DNA for a minute. Have you ever written a monograph on how to collect DNA evidence?

Yes.

And is that kind of the gold standard in criminalistic writings about the collection of DNA evidence?

Up to today that's the only reference guide that was written with FBI scientists about collection, preservation of DNA evidence.

All right. TWGDAM, what's that?

TWGDAM, that's the technical working group of DN

A.

That's T-W-G-D-A-M, correct?

Yes.

Were you a founding member of that organization?

I was one of the early member at the beginning.

Okay. What's OTA stand for, Doctor?

Office Technology Assessment.

What is your involvement with that?

OTA set up a DNA committee called Forensic Application of DN

I was one of the committee members to study the forensic application of DN

A.

And relative to the NRC report, what did you do, if anything, concerning the NRC report on DNA?

I only have some input of the first -- only in the first committee -- I was a committee member of National Research Council. Council set up a committee to study the DNA application for forensic science; we issue a report. I'm part of -- a committee member.

All right. Now, you have been an editor of various publications, have you not, sir?

Yes.

And tell us, have you been the editor, for example, of the Journal of Forensic Science?

Yes, I'm editor of Journal of Forensic Science. I'm an editor of Forensic Identification, editor of American Journal of Forensic Pathology, and I'm editor of some other journal which I don't remember. About seven of them.

Forensic Science Review; how about that?

Yes.

Now, the Journal of Forensic Science, they're the official publication of what?

Academy of Forensic Science.

It's American Academy, is it not?

Yes, sir.

Okay. And the Journal of Forensic Identification is the official publication of what?

For international identification of association.

All right. And so you do serve as editor on both the American Journal and the International Journal?

Yes, sir.

All right. And the American Forensic Pathology Journal that you serve on as the editor, is that Forensic Medicine and Pathology?

Yes. Basically 99 percent of the paper related to forensic pathology and not forensic medicine.

Doctor, going to your -- into your teaching for a moment, moving to a new area, I think we've already established you continue to teach at the University of New Haven?

Yes.

You also teach where else?

I also currently this semester am teaching at UCONN Law School, teach with a judge. Also, I'm teaching at Central Connecticut University, Connecticut. Also was Wcsleyan University in Connecticut where we have a molecular biology course. Also, I'm teaching with some other people in Western Connecticut. Bridgeport University have approached me. However, we haven't set up a day yet. Also, I give guest lecture Northeastern and many other university before. I also lecture at John Jay College of Criminal Justice before, People's University Central Police College and mainly --

People's University, is that Beijing?

Beijing.

Go ahead. I apologize for interrupting?

And three weeks ago I was in China, lecture -- I give a series lecture in different agencies and university.

Now, do you teach law enforcement agencies across the world?

Yes.

And have you been a lecturer for the FBI Justice Department?

Yes, the FBI, ATF, Justice Department, DE

I taught six courses of crime-scene investigation reconstruction for DEA, Drug Enforcement Agency, last year. Many federal, Air Force, Naval investigation, federal level -- as a matter of fact, next week or next two weeks I have to give a lecture for the U.S. Justice Department for the U.S. Attorney on crime scene.

ATF is?

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearm.

An agency of the federal government?

Yes, sir. I teach advanced arson classes for them.

Now, in terms of evidence, you've taught police academies?

Yes.

National Association District Attorney?

Many, many. Next week I have to teach for the New England Fire Marshal annual meeting next Monday. Tuesday, I have to be in Oklahoma to teach an advance crime scene class. Friday I have to be in Pennsylvania to teach a course for Pennsylvania Medical Examiners Coroners annual meeting. Pretty busy.

I'll say. Doctor, you're also a member of various professional organizations, are you not?

Yes, sir.

And can you tell us what the IAI is?

IAI stands for International Identification of Association.

And are you a distinguished member of that organization?

Yes. I'm one of the few distinguished member in that organization.

Actually, there are less than 10 distinguished members in that organization?

Yes. Much less.

And in that organization you seek to identify, by various means, evidence, do you not, or -- strike that. Do you seek to identify the perpetrator of a crime?

It's -- basically it's an organization involving identification techniques.

All right.

Which include fingerprint, footprint, document, pattern evidence, and other periphery -- other physical evidence such as voice analysis and other type of scientific technique using criminal investigation.

Now, does the IAI have a certification program for criminalists?

No. They have a certification program for latent print and a certification program for crime scene. Now, right at this moment, they develop a certification program for blood pattern interpretation.

Okay. And have they honored you with any type of an award, sir?

Yes. They have the highest award in their organization called Donnero award.

Donnero?

Yes.

And when were you given that award, sir?

I forgot. 1970 or '80 something, 1980 something.

Fair enough. Let's move on to the American Academy of Forensic Science. Are you a member of that?

Yes, I'm a member.

And are -- have you been given the distinguished fellow medallion in that organization?

Yes. I received the highest membership category couple years ago.

You've also been given the highest award of that organization that that organization awards, have you not?

Yes, the criminalistics actually received one of the Distinguished Criminalist Award.

And Doctor, to your knowledge, has anyone ever -- else in the world ever received the Donnero and the Distinguished Criminalist Award?

No.

Other than yourself?

Right. In moment I'm the only one.

All right. Now, are you a member of the International Association of Blood-Stain Analysts?

Yes.

And you're regional vice-president of that organization?

I was.

Okay. International Homicide Investigators Association?

Yes.

Are you a member and advisor of that group?

Yes.

And are you a fellow of the English Fingerprint Society?

Yes.

How about ASCLAD?

I was a board member. I was chairman of research academy. I was chairman of scholarship committee and many other committees.

And were you inspector for a --

Yes, I was an inspector for American Crime Laboratory Inspection Team.

And by the way, Doctor, is the LA Crime Lab accredited by ASCLAD?

Probably not.

Okay.

It's not.

Okay. Thank you. Doctor, are you also a member of the American Board of Criminalists?

Yes.

And are you certified by the American Board of Criminalists?

No.

Why not?

I was the board member, and also I was the peer group, also review some tests. I feel not fair to other people if I know what's on the questions, test question and take the test.

So you devised the test question. You think you ought to be able to pass it?

I only devise certain portion of question. Other people devise the rest of question. However, I was the guinea pig, take the question, that review the question.

I see. So you think you could pass that one, Doctor?

Maybe.

Doctor, have you received from various police department and crime labs around the world hundreds, literally hundreds of certificates and awards of appreciation?

Yes, plaques. medals -- last week alone I receive two medals: One is the highest honor for Taiwan government for overseas Chinese for my accomplishment in science. And next one is given to me by Minister of interior for my contribution in arson fire investigation and the knowledge -- contribution of literature to fire arson investigation.

Congratulations. Now, Doctor, putting modesty aside, have people indicated in your presence that they believe that you are the number one criminalist in the world?

Oh, I don't consider that.

All right. Doctor, how did you get involved in the murders of June 12, 1994, of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson? Dr. Lee, I want to -- Dr. Lee, I want to go back over one thing before you -- we get into how you got involved in this --

THE COURT: 10-minute recess, ladies and gentlemen. Don't talk about the case. Don't form or express any opinion. (Recess.) ( JURORs resume their respective seats.)

Okay. (Whereupon a videotaped deposition of Dr. Henry Lee was played.) DIRECT EXAMINATION BY

Let's go back over one thing before we get into how you got involved in this case. Dr. Lee, in the criminal case, were you -- you personally, as contrasted to any organization, paid for your services?