Deposition reading of Rachel Ferrara

📄 Deposition reading of Rachel Ferrara — Monday, January 6, 1997

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1997\JAN\6\DEPOSITION-READING-OF-RACHEL-F.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 36 of 57

◀ Cross-examination of investigator Tippin Morning housekeeping ▶

Witness: Rachel Ferrara
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Date: Monday, January 6, 1997 • Utterances: 326

The deposition of Rachel Ferrara, a friend and romantic partner of Kato Kaelin's, was read into the civil trial record. Ferrara testified about her phone conversations with Kaelin on the night of June 12, 1994, establishing a precise timeline for when Kaelin heard the mysterious thumps on his wall — approximately 10:40 PM — and vouching for Kaelin's honesty and credibility as a person.

# 1 A:

Yes.

# 2 Q:

How long have you known him?

# 3 A:

I have known him since March of '94.

# 4 Q:

And during the time that you knew him in 1994, where was he living?

# 5 A:

O.J.'s guest house.

# 6 Q:

What was the address of that house?

# 7 A:

360 North Rockingham.

# 8 Q:

In Brentwood?

# 9 A:

Uh-huh. Yes.

# 10 Q:

And had you ever visited him at the guest house?

# 11 A:

Yes.

# 12 Q:

So you know what it looks like?

# 13 A:

Yes.

# 14 Q:

On June the 12th, 1994, did you receive a call from Kato Kaelin?

# 15 A:

Yes.

# 16 Q:

At approximately what time?

# 17 A:

Approximately 10:20.

# 18 Q:

And where were -- where were you when you got this call?

# 19 A:

At home.

# 20 Q:

I'm sorry?

# 21 A:

At home.

# 22 Q:

Without giving us your address, where was that? Was the address the same? Tell us the general area you were living in on June the 12th of 1994?

# 23 A:

It is West LA, Palms.

# 24 Q:

Okay. About how many miles from Rockingham and Brentwood would that be?

# 25 A:

Ten miles. That is a guess. I really don't know.

# 26 Q:

Okay. At 10:20 p.m., what were you doing when you got that phone call from Mr. Kaelin?

# 27 A:

I was watching TV. Not much.

# 28 Q:

Did you have a conversation with him?

# 29 A:

Yes.

MR. P. BAKER: Page 20,461, line 9. (Reading:) Now, did Kato talk to you about what he had done earlier that evening?

# 30 A:

Somewhat, yes.

# 31 Q:

Did he talk to you about going to McDonald's with Mr. Simpson?

# 32 A:

Yes.

# 33 Q:

During the course of your conversation, did you happen to ask Kato Kaelin what time it was?

# 34 A:

Yes.

# 35 Q:

And how did you happen to recall that?

# 36 A:

Because we were going to go out and do something and I asked him -- I was trying to figure out if it was too late, and he said -- so I asked him what time it was, and he said 10:30.

# 37 Q:

Now, you were supposed to go out with him that night, were you?

# 38 A:

Yes -- well, I don't know out, but...

# 39 Q:

Get together?

# 40 A:

Yes.

# 41 Q:

And so after he told you it was 10:30, at some point after that, did something unusual occur during the course of your conversation with him?

# 42 A:

Yes.

# 43 Q:

What was that?

# 44 A:

Well, he described it as an earthquake. He, um, he said there was a bang on his wall.

# 45 Q:

Okay. And about how long after you had asked the time and he told you it was 10:30 did he describe an earthquake occurring?

# 46 A:

After 10:30.

# 47 Q:

Right. You asked him what time it was, he said 10:30, correct?

# 48 A:

Right.

# 49 Q:

At some point after that he described an earthquake occurring?

# 50 A:

Uh-huh.

# 51 Q:

How long after that time when he said it was 10:30 did he describe hearing an earthquake?

# 52 A:

Approximately 10 minutes.

# 53 Q:

How did he describe that earthquake sound?

# 54 A:

He said it was a bang.

KEY QUOTE

# 55 Q:

When he told you about that, how did he sound?

# 56 A:

He sounded confused and startled and concerned.

MR. P. BAKER: Page 20,463, line 5. (Reading:)

# 57 Q:

Did he indicate to you in any way that he was -- how did he indicate to you that he was concerned?

# 58 A:

Well, because we tried to figure out what it was, and he said was there an earthquake, and I had the TV on, so I said no, for one thing, I didn't feel anything, and also because they usually report it right away, some sort of indication, and, um, just because he kept referring back to it in the conversation.

# 59 Q:

Okay. After he --

# 60 A:

And it was also -- and it also knocked his picture.

# 61 Q:

He said it moved the picture on his wall?

# 62 A:

Right.

# 63 Q:

After he -- after you said no, it was not an earthquake --

# 64 A:

Yes.

# 65 Q:

-- did he indicate some concern to you?

# 66 A:

Yes.

# 67 Q:

And what concern was that?

# 68 A:

We thought maybe somebody was outside.

# 69 Q:

All right. But you continued to talk to him for a while after that, didn't you?

# 70 A:

Yes.

# 71 Q:

About how long?

# 72 A:

Approximately 10 minutes or so.

# 73 Q:

Okay. During that 10 minutes that he continued to -- that you continued to talk to him, did the subject of that bang come up again?

# 74 A:

Yes.

# 75 Q:

How many times?

# 76 A:

Oh, I don't know how many times. I just know that it came up again.

MR. P. BAKER: Page 20472, line 11. (Reading:)

# 77 Q:

Just before he hung up with you, did he give you some instruction?

# 78 A:

Yes.

# 79 Q:

And what was that?

# 80 A:

He said if he doesn't call back in 10 minutes to call the police.

KEY QUOTE

# 81 Q:

What was his tone of voice when he told you that?

# 82 A:

It was -- I don't remember.

# 83 Q:

I'm sorry?

# 84 A:

I don't remember his tone of voice. It wasn't urgent.

# 85 Q:

Were you concerned?

# 86 A:

Not at the moment, not that much.

# 87 Q:

Did he indicate at any point that he wanted to go out and find what caused the noise?

# 88 A:

Yes.

# 89 Q:

And about what time was it that you hung up?

# 90 A:

Approximately 10:50.

MR. P. BAKER: Page 20,483. (Reading:)

# 91 Q:

And in fact between the period of March, 1994 and June 12, 1994, you had occasion to go over to the Simpson residence; is that correct?

# 92 A:

Yes.

# 93 Q:

And you spent some time over there; is that correct?

# 94 A:

Not a lot, but yes.

# 95 Q:

Did you spend some evenings there?

# 96 A:

One or two evenings.

# 97 Q:

On how many occasions would you say you went over there?

# 98 A:

I went over there in the daytime a few times, so I would say five or six.

# 99 Q:

All right. During that time frame?

# 100 A:

Yes.

# 101 Q:

All right. Sometime in the day and sometime in the evening; is that correct?

# 102 A:

Correct.

# 103 Q:

And did you ever see Mr. O.J. Simpson during any of these times that you went over there?

# 104 A:

Never.

# 105 Q:

So the five or six times you went over there between March of 1994 and June 12 of 1994, you never saw Mr. O.J. Simpson, right?

# 106 A:

Never.

# 107 Q:

On this particular evening that we are talking about, June 12, 1994, do you recall that you received a phone call from Mr. Kaelin that evening; is that correct?

# 108 A:

Yes.

# 109 Q:

And to the best of your recollection, that phone call was somewhere approximately 10:30 p.m., the first phone call; is that right?

# 110 A:

Approximately 10:30.

# 111 Q:

You were talking to him by 10:30 that evening?

# 112 A:

We were talking during 10:30, but it was before 10:30.

# 113 Q:

The first call was about what time, 10:20?

# 114 A:

Yes.

# 115 Q:

And at 10:30 you were still talking; is that correct?

# 116 A:

Yes.

# 117 Q:

You had some plans of possibly getting together that evening; is that correct?

# 118 A:

Yes.

# 119 Q:

As it turned out, you didn't get together that evening, did you?

# 120 A:

No.

# 121 Q:

And as I understand your testimony, that evening you had perhaps three conversations all together, is that correct, three telephone conversations?

# 122 A:

Yes, I guess you could put it like that.

# 123 Q:

It was during the first conversation that -- while talking to Mr. Kaelin he described for you a bang on the wall of his residence or something of that nature; is that correct?

# 124 A:

Yes.

# 125 Q:

Do you recall he used the term "bang on the wall;" is that correct?

# 126 A:

Yes.

# 127 Q:

At first, as I understand it, he thought it was an earthquake, and because you were watching television, you were aware at least there was no indication of an earthquake at this time; is that correct?

# 128 A:

Yes.

# 129 Q:

All right.

# 130 A:

Well, that is not the only indication, but I didn't feel anything.

# 131 Q:

So you didn't feel anything?

# 132 A:

Right.

# 133 Q:

You didn't see any mention of it either; is that correct?

# 134 A:

Right.

# 135 Q:

You were approximately 10 miles from where he was at that point; is that correct?

# 136 A:

That is an approximate. I'm not sure.

# 137 Q:

You were in Palms somewhere; is that correct?

# 138 A:

Yes.

# 139 Q:

Now, after he told you about this bang on the wall, there came a time when this conversation -- the first conversation terminated; is that correct?

# 140 A:

Yes.

# 141 Q:

Can you tell us about what time that first conversation terminated?

# 142 A:

Around 10:50.

# 143 Q:

And at that point you expected that Mr. Kaelin would call back again; is that correct?

# 144 A:

Yes.

# 145 Q:

And so that we are clear, if you can help us with this, what time did he call back after the first conversation, what was the time of the second conversation?

# 146 A:

Approximately 11:05.

# 147 Q:

So perhaps 15 minutes later he called back; is that correct?

# 148 A:

Right.

# 149 Q:

Do you know, or were you able to ascertain whether or not Mr. Kaelin had seen Mr. Simpson between the two phone calls, between 10:50 and 11:05, were you able to ascertain that?

# 150 A:

Yes.

# 151 Q:

That was based upon something that he told you?

# 152 A:

Correct.

# 153 Q:

Did you discuss with -- did you discuss with Mr. Kaelin that night that Mr. Simpson was going to Chicago on an airplane at all?

# 154 A:

Discuss?

# 155 Q:

Yeah, did you guys talk about that?

# 156 A:

It wasn't like a whole topic discussed. It was mentioned.

# 157 Q:

I'm not talking about a topic. Did you have occasion to mention that in the course of your conversation?

# 158 A:

Yes, yes.

MR. P. BAKER: That's all I have.

# 159 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 20,470, starting at line 15. (Testimony of Rachel Ferrara was read into the record; Ms. Bluestein reading the answers and Mr. Petrocelli reading the questions.)

# 160 MR. PETROCELLI:

(Reading:) CROSS-EXAMINATION

# 161 Q:

After the bang on the wall, at some point did Mr. Kaelin indicate to you that he wanted to terminate the conversation?

# 162 A:

Yes.

# 163 Q:

And were you expecting at the time he terminated the conversation to hear back from him again?

# 164 A:

Yes.

MR. P. BAKER: Objection, hearsay.

# 165 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 166 (Reading:)

# 167 Q:

After you hung up from him, did you leave your apartment?

# 168 A:

No.

# 169 Q:

Why didn't you leave your apartment?

# 170 A:

Because I didn't plan on leaving.

# 171 Q:

Okay. Were you waiting for him to call back?

# 172 A:

Yes.

# 173 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 20,473, line 8. (Reading:)

# 174 Q:

Did you ever hear back from Mr. Kaelin that night after you hung up at 10:50?

# 175 A:

Yes.

# 176 Q:

And what time was it approximately when you heard back from him?

# 177 A:

I would say approximately 11:05, 5 after 11.

# 178 Q:

I'm sorry?

# 179 A:

5 after 11.

# 180 Q:

Okay. And did you have a conversation with him about what occurred after he hung up with you at 10:50?

# 181 A:

Yes.

# 182 MR. PETROCELLI:

Question starting at line 27. (Reading:)

# 183 Q:

During your conversation with Mr. Kaelin, when you resumed your conversation after 11 o'clock or 11:05, did something interrupt your telephone call with him?

# 184 A:

Yes.

# 185 Q:

And how -- approximately how long had you been speaking, if you remember, at the point that the phone call was interrupted?

# 186 A:

Approximately 10 minutes.

# 187 Q:

Are you familiar with the feature on telephones called call waiting?

# 188 A:

Yes.

# 189 Q:

So are you familiar with what occurs when someone calls while you're on the line if you have call waiting?

# 190 A:

Yes.

# 191 Q:

And what is that?

# 192 A:

The -- it clicks or beeps or actually it clicks.

# 193 Q:

Okay. And during your conversation with Mr. Kaelin after 11 o'clock p.m. after you had been speaking to him for awhile, did something interrupt your call?

# 194 A:

Yes.

# 195 Q:

And what was that?

# 196 A:

Call waiting on his line.

# 197 Q:

On his line. And did he click off onto the other line?

# 198 A:

Yes.

# 199 MR. PETROCELLI:

Go to page 20,479, starting at line 7. (Reading:)

# 200 Q:

And after he clicked back on, you had some further conversation with him, didn't you?

# 201 A:

Yes.

# 202 Q:

And for how long did you speak to him after he clicked back on?

# 203 A:

After he clicked back over?

# 204 Q:

Yes.

# 205 A:

Not very long. He --

# 206 Q:

Complete your answer.

# 207 A:

Just a couple of minutes, and then he went outside.

# 208 Q:

And then did he call you back again after he came back inside?

# 209 A:

Yes.

# 210 Q:

And about how long was it that you spoke after he called you back the third time?

# 211 A:

The third time?

# 212 Q:

Right.

# 213 A:

Um, it was for a long time, an hour and a half.

# 214 Q:

Okay. About what time did you hang up with him?

# 215 A:

I don't know what time. I would have to calculate it and figure it out. I guess, let's see, 12:30, 1 o'clock.

# 216 Q:

Okay.

# 217 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 20,481, line 19. (Reading:)

# 218 Q:

And how long had you known Kato Kaelin prior to June 12, 1994?

# 219 A:

Well, for just -- well, since March, so...

# 220 Q:

All right. So you've known him since March of 1994; is that correct?

# 221 A:

Yes.

# 222 Q:

You met him in connection with this movie production we were talking about?

# 223 A:

Yes.

# 224 Q:

And during that period of time between March, 1994 and June of 1994, did a relationship of some kind develop between you and Mr. Kaelin?

# 225 A:

Yes.

# 226 Q:

And what was that relationship?

# 227 A:

We were friends and we were dating.

# 228 Q:

Dating?

# 229 A:

Yes.

# 230 Q:

And you came to know him pretty well as of June 12 of 1994?

# 231 A:

Yes.

# 232 MR. LEONARD:

Objection, rel --

MR. P. BAKER: Objection, relevance.

# 233 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 234 (Reading:)

# 235 Q:

Did you find him to be a fairly honest and straightforward person in your dealings with him?

MR. P. BAKER: Same objection.

# 236 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 237 MR. PETROCELLI:

These are Mr. Cochran's questions.

# 238 THE COURT:

I don't care whose it is. There's an objection. I sustained it.

# 239 MR. PETROCELLI:

They go directly to the nature of the relationship, Your Honor.

# 240 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 241 MR. PETROCELLI:

Next question. (Reading:) Did he tell you the truth as far as you knew?

MR. P. BAKER: Same objection.

# 242 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 243 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. Continuing on to 20,487 at line 22. Okay. Referring to a -- it's one of the telephone conversations. (Reading:)

# 244 Q:

Was that in the first conversation or in the second one?

# 245 A:

That was -- that was in the second.

# 246 Q:

Second conversation?

# 247 A:

Yes.

# 248 Q:

After he came back; is that correct?

# 249 A:

Correct.

# 250 Q:

And in the second conversation -- how long did that conversation last?

# 251 A:

Second conversation lasted, oh, approximately 10 minutes.

# 252 Q:

So about 11:15 or thereabouts?

# 253 A:

Yes.

# 254 Q:

And then after that there was a period of time and then you had a third conversation; is that correct?

# 255 A:

Yes.

# 256 Q:

Okay. So if the second conversation ended at about 11:15 --

# 257 A:

Uh-huh.

# 258 Q:

-- can you help us when the third conversation began, when he called you back?

# 259 A:

When it began?

# 260 Q:

Yes, what time did you start?

# 261 A:

Well, probably -- he wasn't outside for very long, so I would say 10 minutes later, so 11:20.

# 262 Q:

So your best recollection is that the third conversation would have started about 11:25 or thereabouts?

# 263 A:

Yes.

# 264 Q:

Okay. I understand these are just estimates, is that correct, your best estimate?

# 265 A:

Best estimate, yes.

# 266 Q:

And this third conversation was the one you shared with us that may have lasted up to an hour and a half; is that correct?

# 267 A:

Yes.

# 268 Q:

In the second conversation, did Mr. Kaelin say to you that he had seen a limousine outside in the driveway?

# 269 A:

Yes.

# 270 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. I assume you're going to sustain objections, Your Honor, to further questions about Kaelin's honesty and so forth.

# 271 THE COURT:

Just a minute.

# 272 MR. PETROCELLI:

It's at page 20,489. I think because they're reading this in I ought to have the opportunity to --

MR. P. BAKER: Your Honor --

# 273 MR. PETROCELLI:

-- Have the opportunity to read the testimony. (Pause.)

# 274 THE COURT:

Okay, I'll set aside the former ruling. I'll allow the question with regards to his honesty under 780 of the Evidence Code.

# 275 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you.

MR. P. BAKER: Your Honor, I'd like to object, outside the scope.

# 276 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 277 MR. PETROCELLI:

(Reading:) We're going back to page 20,482. Okay?

# 278 MS. BLUESTEIN:

Okay.

# 279 MR. PETROCELLI:

Referring to your knowledge of Kaelin, okay, starting at line 13.

# 280 Q:

Did you find him to be a fairly honest and straightforward person in your dealings with him?

# 281 A:

Definitely.

# 282 Q:

Did he tell you the truth as far as you knew?

# 283 A:

As far as I knew.

# 284 MR. PETROCELLI:

And over at page 20,489, line 25, actually going down to, "Do you believe that Kato Kaelin is an honest and credible person?" And your answer is at line 5. (READING:)

# 285 A:

I do believe that he is an honest and credible person.

KEY QUOTE

# 286 Q:

An honest and credible person?

# 287 A:

Yes.

# 288 Q:

Why do you say that?

# 289 A:

Because I -- I know him.

# 290 Q:

You still consider yourself a friend?

# 291 A:

He's very moral.

# 292 Q:

This is based upon the time you have known him since March of 1994; is that correct?

# 293 A:

Yes.

# 294 Q:

Okay.

# 295 MR. PETROCELLI:

And finally, page 20,497 at line 5. (READING:)

# 296 Q:

You have indicated to Mr. Cochran that many of your time estimates are approximate, do you recall that?

# 297 A:

Yes.

# 298 Q:

Was there one particular time that night when you absolutely determined what time it was during your conversation with Mr. Kaelin?

# 299 A:

Yes.

# 300 Q:

And when was that?

# 301 A:

10:30.

# 302 Q:

Okay. And that was how long before he told you about the bang?

# 303 A:

About 10 minutes before.

# 304 Q:

Okay.

# 305 MR. PETROCELLI:

No further questions.

MR. P. BAKER: Continuing, line 20, okay. (Reading:) REDIRECT EXAMINATION (READING:)

# 306 Q:

You are certain of that time?

# 307 A:

Yes.

# 308 Q:

And why is that?

# 309 A:

Um, just because of how much longer we talked.

MR. P. BAKER: Page 20,498, line 10.

# 310 Q:

When you just indicated to us you were certain of the time of 10:30, did you pay specific attention at that point to what time it was?

# 311 A:

Well, I was aware of it.

# 312 Q:

Okay. You directed -- did you direct your attention to what time it was at that point?

# 313 A:

At 10:30?

# 314 Q:

Yes.

# 315 A:

Yes.

# 316 Q:

What did you do to determine what time it was?

# 317 A:

I asked Kato what time it was.

# 318 Q:

Okay. So other than the time of 10:30 and the 10 minutes after that you have just indicated to us, are you certain of any of the other times you have mentioned or are those approximated?

# 319 A:

Well, I'm certain of the -- of the -- of the 11:05.

# 320 Q:

I mean I know it was after -- wait, okay.

# 321 A:

I mean I know it was after, um, yeah, I would say I'm certain.

# 322 Q:

What are you certain of?

# 323 A:

Of the times.

MR. P. BAKER: Nothing further.

# 324 MR. PETROCELLI:

That's okay, Your Honor, nothing further.

# 325 THE COURT:

Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we will adjourn until Wednesday, 8:30. Don't talk about the case, don't form or express any opinions. Merry Christmas.

# 326 (At 4:25 P.M. an adjournment was taken until Wednesday, January 8, 1997, at 8:30 A.M.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Witness

He said it was a bang. [...] He sounded confused and startled and concerned.

Contemporaneous description of Kaelin's reaction to the thumps, corroborating his account and suggesting genuine alarm rather than fabrication.

Witness

He said if he doesn't call back in 10 minutes to call the police.

Shows Kaelin was genuinely alarmed enough to issue a safety instruction, supporting the authenticity of his account.

Witness

I do believe that he is an honest and credible person. [...] He's very moral.

Petrocelli used Ferrara to rehabilitate Kaelin's credibility after defense attacks on his reliability as a witness.

Witness

10:30. [...] About 10 minutes before [the bang].

Pins the thumps to approximately 10:40 PM — directly relevant to the prosecution's timeline placing OJ at Rockingham at that time.

Notable Exchanges (2)

Daniel Petrocelli•Judge Fujisaki•P. Baker

Petrocelli sought to elicit Ferrara's opinion that Kaelin was honest and credible. Baker objected; Fujisaki initially sustained, then reversed after Petrocelli argued the questions bore on the nature of the relationship and invoked Evidence Code 780.

strategic

P. Baker•Witness

Baker's redirect pressed Ferrara on which time estimates she was actually certain of versus approximate, slightly undermining the precision of the timeline she had established.

probing

Light Moments (1)

Judge Fujisaki

Judge Fujisaki closes the session with 'Merry Christmas' to the jury, a rare moment of warmth in an otherwise grim trial.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Kato Kaelin

indirect rehabilitation (defense implication of unreliability)

Petrocelli used Ferrara to affirmatively vouch for Kaelin's honesty and moral character, countering prior defense suggestions that Kaelin was evasive or unreliable on the stand.

Witness Demeanor

(Deposition read into record by Ms. Bluestein reading answers and Mr. Petrocelli reading questions — no live demeanor observable)

(Pause noted during sidebar dispute over admissibility of honesty questions)

Objections

5 objections (2 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 8745 • 326 utterances

Civil Trial

Department 103