Mr. Vannatter, when we were getting in the car, took it and put it in the trunk of his car.

Okay. That was the car that you rode down to Parker Center in?

Yes.

And did he keep that grip after you ultimately left Parker Center?

Yes. I asked for it and he said it was in his car and he asked would it be all right if he just dropped it back at the house when he got back there.

Okay.

I said sure.

Okay. So that grip was then in his possession from about 1:30 --

That's okay, Erin, thank you.

-- about 1:30 to whenever he got back to Rockingham?

Yes.

Okay. Did he ever ask you if he could look in the grip?

No.

I mean you didn't care, but he never asked you; is that right?

I'm going to object to his preamble, him not caring. Ask him a question.

Ask him if he cared.

(BY MR. BAKER) Did you care whether he looked in your grip?

If he asked I would have said sure, but he didn't ask.

All right. And in any event, that piece of luggage was then returned to you at about 5:30 on the 13th, correct?

Yes.

Now, did Vannatter or Lange or any other LAPD officer on the 13th ask you for your luggage?

No one ever asked me or, to my knowledge, asked anyone with my defense team throughout any of the other trial for any of my luggage including my golf clubs.

Object to his comments to other people outside of himself.

Okay. Sustained.

(BY MR. BAKER) And during the criminal trial, were you requested to produce your golf bag, the one we've seen here in court today?

Objection, relevance.

Sustained.

Your Honor, I think it's relevant. I'd like to be heard.

Sustained. This is a civil trial.

Bob. Bob.

Let's be heard on that. Let me at least put it on the record.

Okay.

Hold on. Maybe you can tell me where you're going with this.

Let's just put it on the record. (The following proceedings were held at the bench with reporter:)

They've tried to infer that the golf bag is of great importance in this case, and it was -- had some nefarious things in it, and obviously we think it's important. He will testify that he is the one that told his lawyers to bring the golf bag to the criminal trial, and it was of absolutely no importance.

You could ask him that.

Thank you.

But whether somebody asked him, there's an objection, it's sustained.

MR. BAKER: Okay. (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury.)

(BY MR. BAKER) Did you request during the criminal trial that your golf bag and your Louis Buitton bag, your luggage, be brought down into the Courthouse in the criminal trial?

And what you meant is test it for blood?

Yes. I mean there seemed to be a lot of talk about my Louis Vuitton bag and golf bag and no one ever asked for it, and I felt maybe we can stop all the talk about it by bringing it in.

Now, Mr. Simpson, on the way to -- O.J., on the way down to Parker Center when you were in the vehicle with Vannatter and another officer, did they talk to you about your whereabouts the evening before?

Yes.

Did they ask you where you had been?

Yes.

And did they talk to you about whether or not you had been to get a hamburger and your whereabouts the evening before?

Yes. I told them. They didn't ask me if I had done that. I told them what I had done.

And when you got to the police station, you had an opportunity to discuss for a period of time with your lawyers, did you not, before the recorded statement?

I talked to the police for a while. Then my lawyers showed up and I talked to my lawyers and then I went back in with the police officers.

Okay. Now, when you got back in with the police officers, you heard a tape recording of the interview that they did with you on the afternoon of June 13, 1994, correct?

Yes.

Before that interview was tape-recorded, did they turn on the tape recorder and stop it and rewind it?

I don't -- I can't recall if they rewound it or put another tape in when they started interviewing me, but they stopped and started again.

Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what occurred the first time that they tape-recorded you?

Well, they turned it on and they started reading; they explained what they were doing, they started reading my rights. When they got to the part about a lawyer being present I made a comment.

What comments did you make?

I don't know. Just, oh, yeah, sure, that's what you say here, or something to that effect. And he stopped it and he says, oh, come on, O.J., we just want to get this thing over with. I mean if you want your lawyers in here, they can come in here and we'll be here all day. You said you wanted to talk to us. And I said, I do. And he said, well, you know, we just want to get it over with. We can get back -- we can -- you give some answers, you can go home, you can see your kids. And I said start it over again. And he did it again. I kind of chuckled at that point and the second time, but I didn't care if they talked to me or not. I didn't feel I needed a lawyer.

Now, did you think you had anything to hide from the police at the time that you were in Parker Center LAPD on June 13, 1994?

Absolutely nothing.

And were you tired?

I was tired. I was a lot of things; I was kind of -- you know, you can imagine what I had heard. I hadn't slept. I was tired. I was in shock. I was disbelieving. I was a lot of things.

Now, in the ride down, and before you were -- turned on the second time on the tape recorder, did you ever ask Vannatter or Lange or the third officer what had happened?

I asked him every time I spoke to a police officer or one of the detectives, I constantly asked him, you know, what happened.

Did anybody ever tell you what had happened?

Not -- nothing other than, you know, my kids didn't see anything and that type of stuff.

Would any of the LAPD ever give you any indication as to what occurred?

No.

And did you bring it up again in your recorded statement that the police officers -- you guys haven't told me anything, did you say that to him?

No, no.

Did you tell him that you had no idea what happened?

Yes.

And you said: (Mr. Baker read a portion of the transcript of O.J. Simpson's police interview.) You guys haven't told me anything. Every time I ask you --

Page 23. (Mr. Baker read a portion of the transcript of O.J. Simpson's police interview.) Every time I ask you guys, you say you're going to tell me in a bit.

Is that what you said to them?

Yes.

And was Vannatter doing most of the questioning?

He and Lange, they both were.

Now, you indicated on that recording -- they said there was blood all over and you volunteered to take a blood test, did you not?

Yes.

Why?

And they mentioned guns or -- strike that. When they said that we don't have a lot of answers ourselves, you told them you had a bunch of guns, correct?

Yes. And I was a little nervous about that because I had a gun in my car and I never locked my car and so I had a little concern about that.

Why did you have a gun in your car, O.J.?

Well, a month previous to this I was going down to Laguna to the recital and on Mother's Day, about 4 in the morning, and three cars attempted to run me off the road. I don't know if they were -- they had me encircled and they were slowing down to try to stop me, and so I held up my cell phone so they can see I may have been making a cell call and they took off. And I chased them for a little bit, chased one of them, to make him think I was chasing him. And after that I, you know, had a gun in my car.

Now, did Nicole know that you had guns?

Very much so, yes. She had shot -- I had her years previous shoot them so that she'd know how they would feel. And she was always concerned about guns in the house, so she had gone out and bought all the locks for the pistols that I had, revolvers. And in the last month of her life, whenever I was picking the kids up to go to school or whatever, she would always say, and I did, but she'd always say put that gun in the trunk while the kids were in the car.

Now, when you talked about locks, you're talking about trigger locks?

Yes.

Now, were you in this courtroom the day Nancy Ney testified from the Sojourn House that somebody named Nicole had called that didn't know if -- didn't know if her husband had any guns?

I wasn't here, but I heard that testimony and saw that -- that list in my child custody case.

Now, there wasn't any question in your mind Nicole knew you had guns and knew you had them in the car in the month before she died?

Most definitely.

Now, you also told the officers that you had to go out to the Bronco to get your phone, right?

Yes.

Now, you testified that you placed a cell phone call at about 10:00 on the 13th out by your automobile out in the driveway, right?

Yes.

Now, why did you need to go out to the Bronco to get your cell phone if you already had your cell phone, O.J.?

Objection, assumes facts.

I think there was a misstatement, 1213.

It's argumentative also.

You're objecting my question to my client is argumentative?

And it's been leading all day, too.

Anything else you want to put down?

That's it for now.

Start over.

(BY MR. BAKER) Tell us how your cell phone works?

Like most cell phones. But mine comes in a -- I had a package like a small purse and I would keep an extra battery in it. It would also have a battery charger, real small battery charger, so you can recharge it in any hotel room. It also had a plug in so you can plug it into any phone -- car, you know, car lighter. And it came in a real small package or purse, I guess you would call it.

Is that what you were going to get in from the Bronco just before you left?

Yes. And I -- as I said, I was tired and I sort of indicated that to the police. If you'll listen to the tape, I said the cell phone -- I think I said or whatever that is, and that -- whatever that is was referring to those -- the little package. And I said that to the police when they interviewed me, if you listen to that tape.

Okay. It says: (Mr. Baker read a portion of the transcript of O.J. Simpson's police interview.)

Page -- Page 15, line 22. Do you recall bleeding at all in your truck in the Bronco? I recall bleeding at my house and I went to the Bronco. The last thing I did before I left, I was rushing, was went and got my phone out of the Bronco.

And there's a sound apparently, and you say -- well, whatever that is.

The sound is um.

I don't know if that's um or not.

Whatever that is is what I was talking about the case and all the other stuff.

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, in that statement you gave to the police, you said something about calling Paula on the 12th, do you recall that, or driving to Paula's?

Yes.

Were you in fact driving to Paula's on the 12th or the 11th?

On the 11th.

You didn't go to Paula's after the recital, did you?

No.

Was that a mistake?

Yes, it was. I think I was con -- I have a way of talking, when someone will call and say what are you doing, I'll say I'm going to somebody's place, and in fact I'm at home. But I was sort of running both nights and things together because I didn't really have a Sunday night because I hadn't slept, and at the exact same time on Saturday night I was on my way to Paula's and I called Paula when I was on my way to Paula's at that particular time. I don't know the significance of it. I just had those two nights running together.

Okay. Fair enough. Now, after the statement was completed by the officers, what occurred next at LAPD Parker Center?

They said, well, let's go down and -- I guess either take blood or take pictures or something. And we went down. I can't recall if we took the pictures first or second, I don't recall, and then we went and, you know, they kind of inspected my hand and -- hand, and Nurse Peratis cleaned the -- the cut.

When you say they kind of inspected your hand, O.J., what do you mean they kind of inspected your hand?

Well, both Vannatter and Lange, and the nurse, because they were -- they were looking at my hand, you know, I don't know if they were looking for any bits of anything there, but -- so they took my hand and inspected it, and then I put it down on the thing and Nurse Peratis came in with a swab and cleaned it.

Did they inspect both of your hands, your left and your right?

I don't recall if they did anything to my right hand. I don't recall.

Did they rotate your hand around, did they look at it?

They had it and looked at it and cleaned it.

And Lange and Vannatter were right there, as well as Peratis obviously, when he was bandaging it?

Yes. As a matter of fact, when they were taking the picture of it, I can't recall if it was Vannatter or Lange, they took it and positioned my hand, how they wanted the picture to be taken.

Now, at that time, did you have any cut on your left hand other than a cut that was on the knuckle of your middle finger?

No.

Now, you ultimately went back to your office after you left LAPD?

Yes. Vannatter told me I shouldn't go back to the house just yet, they were about finished, but he would let me know when I could go back to the house. And we told them where we would be. And after being at the office for an hour or so, you know, I was sort of restless, I wanted to get home, and I called, and someone said it was okay, come home.

All right. And so you then went back to Rockingham, correct?

Yes.

Was it a zoo by then, with the media?

Yes, outside, yes.

And did you view the television as to accusations that were being made against you that night?

Yes. What -- we were looking for information and -- everyone seemed to be in shock, and we went into my living room and put all three TV's on and -- and, you know, didn't get much information.

Did you get a lot of accusations.

Yeah. People were saying some things that I didn't feel were accurate or true.

Did you leave Rockingham the following day?

The following morning, yes.

And went to where?

I went to meet my kids. I went directly to -- well, directly up to -- I went to my office. I'm sorry. I went to my office.

When did you meet your kids?

A little later. We had been calling, and

A.C. I guess was a little late leaving Laguna, and we ended up meeting -- we ended up meeting, I believe, up on -- on -- I'm sorry, I'm getting when I got out of incarceration and that day sort of confused here. I met them at Bob Kardashian's house.

And you stayed at Bob Kardashian's house from the 14th to the 17th, with the exception of when you went to the wake and the funeral, correct?

Yes.

Now, on June 15, did you direct your attorneys to offer the services of Henry Lee and Michael Baden to the officers of the LAPD?

Yes, I knew their reputations, I thought they were police officers, both of them. I had spent a lot of time in Connecticut, and I heard a lot about Henry Lee. And we felt if -- I felt -- I wanted whoever did this to be caught, and I said I'll pay their expenses and their costs for them to come out and work with LAPD and, you know, not to work for me, but to work with the Los Angeles Police Department, 'cause I understood them to be the best people in the world at this type of stuff.

Did the LAPD reject that?

Yes.

I'm going to object, Your Honor. He has no personal knowledge. It's also stricken from Lee's.

Last portion is stricken.

(BY MR. BAKER) Were you under the care of a doctor that week?

Yes.

Were you medicated?

Yes.

Do you know with what?

No. It was a couple things.

Did you attend the wake of Nicole Brown Simpson?

Yes.

Did you have a conversation with Juditha Brown at that event?

Yes.

Did she ask you if you were responsible for Nicole's death?

Yes, she asked me if I had anything to do with it, she really got right up in my face and asked me.

What did you say?

I told her no, I didn't, Judy, and I told her I loved Nicole.

Now, you were here when Judy testified relative to when you and Nicole broke up the second time, something about it's going to hurt; remember that?

Yes.

Would you tell us what was said in that conversation, sir?

I had made up my mind that I wanted to not be involved with whatever was going on in Nicole's life, other than the kids. It had been a real tough month. I mentioned some of it yesterday, but there are a few other things. And I called Judy 'cause I had a big concern about Nicole, I wanted Judy to help me or for Judy to -- and Lou to talk to Nicole to get her to go back to the therapy that she had been going to evidently immediately before she asked me to get back in the relationship. And I told Judy -- I shared with Judy some things then that I had not told her before, like the car. And I told her, Judy, you got to do something, you know, the first time it was my fault, but this time -- I can't do this anymore, Judy, you know, it hurts to do it, but I've got to distance myself from this, you guys have got to do something. Judy was concerned, was every bit as frightened as me. Judy said things to me that she was concerned about, but she felt she couldn't say anything.

Object to what Judy felt or her concerns.

Sustained.

Ask that the prior statement be stricken with regard to that.

Stricken.

(BY MR. BAKER) From the conversation, did you form the opinion that Judy understood your concerns; Judy Brown?

Yes, very much so.

Objection, calls for operation of mind, Your Honor.

Sustained.

Calls for what?

Just sustained.

Calling for somebody else's state of mind.

Calls for his opinion.

Sustained.

Concern of the other person.

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, on June 17, were you examined by various people?

Yes.

And did you have any bruises on your body, Mr. Simpson?

Not that I know of, no.

The area underneath your right -- on your bicep of your left arm.

Yes.

You saw that picture here in court?

I wasn't -- I don't think I was here the day that we spoke of it, but I was aware that, you know, they made some allegation about that.

How long has that mark been on -- been on your arm?

Since I retired from football.

Is it still there today?

Yes. Along with many other imperfections in my -- coloration of my body, because of football.

Now, on the 17th, you knew that the LAPD was going to arrest you, didn't you?

Yes.

And what did you ask Al Cowlings to do?

Well, early on, I had asked him to give some money to my kids, my older kids, because I felt they wouldn't want to go to work, and I had some cash, and then at one point I just turned to him and asked him to take me to Nicole's grave.

Why?

Well, I was -- I -- I was feeling a lot of pain and I just wanted it to end and I wanted to go to Nicole's grave and I, you know, I was I guess feeling suicidal.

And you had a gun in your duffel bag. Did you --

Yes.

Did you plan to end your life?

Were you -- were you feeling grief stricken?

Yes.

Did you feel that you had been unfairly accused of killing your ex-wife?

I'm sure, among all the things I was feeling, that I was in a lot of pain, I was -- I was missing Nicole, my kids didn't cry, I -- you know, I guess they had attacked me somewhat, and that hurt, hurt me. And I just didn't know what to do.

And what, if anything, or what -- what was it that kept you from ending your life that day?

Well, partially it's the -- my mother told me years ago that you couldn't go to heaven if you commit suicide, and I was kind of dealing with that. And thank God for

A.C.

Didn't you think that that was an act of cowardice. You had four children, two young kids?

Yes, I was totally ashamed of myself right after that. And I'm ashamed that I ever thought that.

Did you ever tell anyone at the time that you had contemplated ending your life or thereafter, that you were in any way responsible for Nicole Brown Simpson's death?

14, 16 --

Facts not in evidence, Your Honor.

Overruled.

(BY MR. BAKER) 15 months?

Yes.

Have you also just about lost every material possession that you've had as a result of this incident?

You know, Your Honor, you made an order forbidding us to get into this.

Sustained.

Opening the door. I'm happy to go into it.

I don't have anything further at this time.

Cross-examine. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY

You told this jury on Friday Mr. Simpson, that you never, ever, attempted to lie about anything important in your life. Do you remember that?

Not anything that was germane to anything.

Excuse me. Do you remember that testimony? Please answer yes or no.

Yes.

And when you told this jury on Friday that you never, ever attempted to lie about anything important, you understood that your credibility is a crucial issue in this case, right?

Argumentative, Your Honor.

Sustained.

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You understand that it's important that you be believed by this jury, correct?

Same thing, Your Honor.

Overruled.

Argumentative. Irrelevant.

You may answer.