Direct examination of O.J. Simpson (part 2)

📄 Direct examination of O.J. Simpson (part 2) — Tuesday, November 26, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\NOV\26\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-O-J-SIMP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 23 of 57

◀ Direct examination of O.J. Simpson (part 1) Recess ▶

Witness: O.J. Simpson
Examiner: Robert Baker
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, November 26, 1996 • Utterances: 254

Kelly cross-examines Simpson on the January 1, 1989 domestic violence incident — how he snuck back to Rockingham in the early morning hours, went through a neighbor's property, hid a black bag in a garbage can, and lost his keys near a fence. Kelly then draws an explicit and dramatic parallel to June 12, 1994, arguing the behavior was identical, and closes by directly accusing Simpson of murdering Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.

# 1 Q:

Mr. Simpson, on January 1, 1989, after you had removed Nicole from your bedroom the second time, she went downstairs before you, did she not?

# 2 A:

Yes.

# 3 Q:

And after she had been downstairs, she went out the back door prior to you going up there, did she not?

# 4 A:

The back door was open; yes.

# 5 Q:

She went up before you?

# 6 A:

Yes.

# 7 Q:

And she also went into Michelle's bedroom before you, did she not?

She went out before you got up?

# 8 A:

That's correct.

# 9 Q:

After she had been in Michelle's bedroom, she left there before you, also, did she not?

# 10 A:

That's correct.

# 11 Q:

And after she left Michelle's bedroom the second time, she remained hiding out in the bushes till the police arrived, also, did she not?

# 12 A:

I'm not aware that -- she left Michelle's bedroom on two occasions, and the one occasion she went out. I don't know where she went.

# 13 Q:

Well, she was outside when the police arrived, was she not?

# 14 A:

That's what I'm told.

# 15 Q:

Now, isn't it a fact, Mr. Simpson, that when you walked into Michelle's room and she was on the phone, you hit her at that time?

# 16 A:

No, that's not.

# 17 MR. KELLY:

Steve, can you play Exhibit 1, please.

# 18 MR. BAKER:

Your Honor, I object to playing the tape.

# 19 MR. KELLY:

I'm not playing the whole thing, just ten seconds.

# 20 MR. BAKER:

I don't care.

# 21 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 22 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1, 911 tape, is played.)

# 23 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) Can you stop.

Do you hear those screams, Mr. Simpson?

# 24 A:

Yes.

# 25 Q:

Is that Nicole?

# 26 A:

I would assume so.

# 27 Q:

Okay.

And if an experienced 911 operator testified that she could hear someone being hit on the other end of the line --

# 28 MR. BAKER:

I object. This is improper.

# 29 Q:

-- would she be mistaken, Mr. Simpson?

# 30 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 31 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) Now, when the police arrived, you didn't think they had a reason to be there because you saw it as a family matter; is that correct?

# 32 A:

I don't know if I had at the time, but when the police arrived they got started in an argument with me.

# 33 Q:

What I'm asking you, you basically saw that as a family matter at that time, did you not?

# 34 A:

Yes.

# 35 Q:

Okay.

And you saw it a as a family matter because you basically just restrained Nicole and wrestled with her a little bit, correct?

# 36 A:

I don't think that was my testimony.

# 37 Q:

Well, I'm asking you now, is that --

# 38 A:

No.

# 39 Q:

Is that how you view a family matter?

# 40 A:

I said I was very, very physical in getting her out of the bedroom. And I got her out of the bedroom, but it was very physical.

KEY QUOTE

# 41 Q:

Once again, my question to you is: When the police arrived, you saw it as a family matter?

# 42 A:

Yes.

# 43 Q:

Okay.

Now, it's also your testimony that you left in your Rolls with the police there because your daughter Arnelle, and Michelle, your housekeeper, didn't want you in an argument with the police officers; is that correct?

# 44 A:

That was part of it, yes. I made comments of that.

# 45 Q:

And at the time you left, the police weren't even on your property, were they?

# 46 A:

You know, I couldn't see them. They were on Ashford, so I didn't see where they were. But I knew they were parked over on Ashford.

# 47 Q:

But you never saw them on your property, did you?

# 48 A:

I believe that Officer Edward, at one point, walked onto my property. But when I left, they were outside the wall, I presume. I didn't know they were -- you know, I had assumed they were still outside the wall over there.

# 49 Q:

They were outside the gate, also?

# 50 A:

That's correct.

# 51 Q:

And that's a big, six-foot iron gate?

# 52 A:

I don't believe so.

Oh, you mean the wrought iron gate at the gate?

Then I had a wall. You couldn't see them through the gate, where they were parked. They were behind the wall.

# 53 Q:

In any event, you could have walked outside your house at this time, could you not, Mr. Simpson?

# 54 A:

Yes.

# 55 Q:

But instead, you got in your Rolls and left. And in your mind, I believe you indicated you felt you were free to leave then; is that correct?

# 56 A:

Yes.

# 57 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered, Your Honor.

# 58 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 59 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) And the police never told you, as you testified, that they were going to place you under arrest at the time for spousal battery, correct?

# 60 A:

Absolutely not.

# 61 Q:

Okay.

And after you left there, you drove over to your friend, Alan Schwartz's house, did you not?

# 62 A:

Yes.

# 63 Q:

How far is that from your house, Mr. Simpson?

# 64 A:

A mile.

# 65 Q:

Did you park on the street when you got there?

# 66 A:

Yes.

# 67 Q:

You didn't park in the driveway?

# 68 A:

Maybe the driveway. I don't know.

There was a parking area that's right next to his garage, so I may have pulled into that area.

# 69 Q:

In fact, you did park there in that area, didn't you, Mr. Simpson?

# 70 A:

I may have. I'm not certain. It's normally where I would park when I go to his house.

# 71 Q:

You didn't have a flat tire when you got there, did you?

# 72 A:

No.

# 73 Q:

You didn't run out of gas?

# 74 A:

No.

# 75 Q:

Okay.

Now, by the way, what year was this Rolls Royce?

# 76 A:

I don't know.

# 77 Q:

Was it a vintage car, an older car?

# 78 A:

No.

# 79 Q:

Okay.

And do you recall what the license plates were?

# 80 A:

No.

# 81 Q:

Okay.

Did you have your "juice" plates on it at that time?

# 82 A:

No.

# 83 Q:

Now, there came a time when a little later, after you had gone to Alan Schwartz's house, that you went back to Rockingham, right?

# 84 A:

Yes.

# 85 Q:

And you drove Alan Schwartz's car back there, did you not?

# 86 A:

Yes.

# 87 Q:

When you drove Alan Schwartz's car back there, other than your Rolls Royce, you didn't pull into your driveway, did you?

# 88 A:

No.

# 89 Q:

And you didn't park in front of the Rockingham gates, did you?

# 90 A:

No.

# 91 Q:

And you didn't park in front of the Ashford gate, did you?

# 92 A:

No.

# 93 Q:

In fact, you parked up the street on Ashford, on the opposite side facing west, did you not?

# 94 A:

No.

# 95 Q:

Where did you park?

# 96 A:

On Bristol.

# 97 Q:

Parked on Bristol, actually, around the corner from Ashford?

# 98 A:

Yes, at the house, on the other side --

# 99 Q:

Okay.

# 100 A:

-- of my house.

# 101 Q:

And after you parked your car on Bristol, you then climbed over a fence on the abutting property and then walked into your backyard, did you not?

# 102 A:

No.

# 103 Q:

Never climbed over a fence?

# 104 A:

No.

# 105 Q:

Okay.

And after you had gone through the Von Watts backyard -- that's what you did, isn't it?

# 106 A:

Tennis courts.

# 107 Q:

And you went through your backyard, you went into your house again, did you not?

# 108 A:

Yes.

# 109 Q:

And you started up with Nicole a second time that night, didn't you, Mr. Simpson?

# 110 A:

No.

# 111 Q:

You were having a fight with her again, weren't you, Mr. Simpson?

# 112 A:

No.

# 113 Q:

And in fact, Michelle, your housekeeper, called your dear friend, Al Cowlings, to come over at this time, did she not?

# 114 A:

I have no idea.

# 115 Q:

Well, you don't know? You have no idea if Michelle called him, correct?

# 116 A:

Correct.

# 117 Q:

Well, shortly after you arrived back in that house, Mr. Cowlings showed up, did he not?

# 118 A:

I believe so.

I think he was there. I'm pretty sure he was there.

# 119 Q:

Okay.

He was there when you got there?

# 120 A:

He was there, at one time, when I came back. I think I came back a few hours after that, again, and he was there.

# 121 Q:

So if Al Cowlings said he received a phone call to come over because you and Nicole were fighting, he would be mistaken?

# 122 MR. BAKER:

I would object to this. This is hearsay.

# 123 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 124 MR. BAKER:

Improper --

# 125 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) Now, there came a time that you left --

By the way, when you left Rockingham, was Mr. Cowlings there, still, at that time?

# 126 A:

I think at the time I left -- I just don't remember him being there at that time. I think he was there the next time I came back. I just don't recall him being there then.

# 127 Q:

Well, the time you had gone over there in Alan Schwartz's car and left again, did you leave carrying anything from the house when you left to go back to Alan Schwartz's car?

# 128 A:

I carried some clothes for the next day. I carried some jewelry that Nicole had thrown all over the floor, and I carried it. I think that's about it.

# 129 Q:

You carried a bag out of there, didn't you?

# 130 A:

Pardon me?

# 131 Q:

You carried that out of there in a bag, did you not?

# 132 A:

I really think I just wrapped the clothes up and my jewelry.

I have a little thing that you fold over that I keep my jewelry in, some of hers, and I put it back in that, yes.

# 133 Q:

Okay.

So the black fold-up case?

# 134 A:

Yeah.

It was only about this big (indicating), not really a case.

# 135 Q:

And there was Nicole's jewelry you put in there?

# 136 A:

No, mostly my jewelry. I put a couple pieces of hers.

# 137 Q:

And when you left carrying that -- that case, you exited the back and went into the Von Watts backyard?

# 138 A:

Yeah. I went through the back gate and went out one of their gates.

# 139 Q:

And it's your testimony that you didn't climb over the Von Watts fence again to get to your car?

# 140 A:

I didn't have to. They had two gates. Like my gates, they were always open.

# 141 Q:

I'm asking you --

# 142 A:

No, I did not.

# 143 Q:

-- climb over a fence?

# 144 A:

No.

# 145 Q:

You never told Al Cowlings that you climbed over a fence at Von Watts to get to the street?

# 146 A:

That's correct.

# 147 Q:

Okay.

And when you got to Alan Schwartz's car, you were missing car keys, weren't you?

# 148 A:

Yes.

# 149 Q:

And in fact, when you were going through the backyard somewhere, you had dropped these keys, correct?

# 150 A:

Well, I didn't know if I had dropped them or if I had left them in my house.

# 151 Q:

Oh, by the time you got back through Von Watts' property to Alan Schwartz's car, you were missing the car keys, were you not?

# 152 A:

That's correct.

# 153 Q:

Okay.

And you also had this bag in your possession, still, to transport to Schwartz's correct?

# 154 A:

Yes.

# 155 Q:

And what, if anything, did you do with the bag at this time?

# 156 A:

Well, while I was -- when I couldn't -- I didn't have a key, so I couldn't get back in his car. So right where my car was parked was some foliage and a garbage can, and I put the -- I just put the clothes next to it and I put the bag underneath the lid, 'cause it was full, and I went back and tried to track my way back.

I went back into my house. I didn't see it. I came back, traced myself back again, looking for the key. And when I picked up my clothes and walked to Alan's house, and I forgot the bag.

# 157 Q:

You left it in a garbage can?

# 158 A:

Yeah, the top of -- under a lid.

# 159 Q:

Okay.

And when you got back to Schwartz's, you made a call to Al Cowlings, did you not?

# 160 A:

I don't think so. I think Alan showed up at Schwartz's.

# 161 Q:

In any event, when Cowlings showed up at Schwartz's, you told, or you asked him to retrace your steps through VanWotts and through your backyard?

# 162 A:

Yeah.

# 163 Q:

First of all, to look for your car keys, correct?

# 164 A:

Yes.

# 165 Q:

Isn't it a fact, first of all, Mr. Simpson, that he found those car keys at the base of a fence in VanWotts' was the property?

# 166 A:

I have no idea where he found them. He never told me where he found them.

But all our properties are surrounded by a fence, so -- and I know when I walk there, I walked along the property and came through the gate, so I could have dropped it there.

# 167 Q:

And you also asked him to get the black bag out of the garbage can, did you not?

# 168 A:

Actually, he was leaving, and I was getting up at that time, and I realized the black bag wasn't with me. And I told him that my Rolex -- I left my Rolex back there. I told him I -- where I thought I left it, and he got it.

# 169 Q:

He got the black bag out of the garbage can?

# 170 A:

Yeah, off the top lid.

# 171 Q:

By the way, this house where you had put this black bag, it was in a garbage can behind someone's house, was it not?

# 172 A:

No, that's not correct.

# 173 Q:

It wasn't on the street?

# 174 A:

Yes. The way they kept their garbage is like I normally keep mine; it's -- I have a wall and they didn't have a wall. I would say it's about 10 feet off the street.

# 175 Q:

Up off the driveway?

# 176 A:

Up the drive, 10 feet off the street, and it's sort of surrounded by hedges.

# 177 Q:

So we're clear, when you drove Schwartz's car back, you parked on Bristol around the corner; is that correct?

# 178 A:

That's correct.

# 179 Q:

Okay. And you went through someone else's property to get to your property, correct?

# 180 A:

Yes. I walked through the Schwartz's, which I do often when we're walking the dogs and things.

# 181 Q:

You lost an item you were carrying at some point when you went through the backyard also, did you not, Mr. Simpson?

# 182 A:

As I said, I lost the keys.

# 183 Q:

You lost something going through the backyard, Mr. Simpson?

# 184 A:

I lost the keys. I don't know where I lost it. As I said, I don't know if Alan ever told me where he found my keys in my yard, in my house, in the backyard. I don't recall him ever telling me where he found the keys.

# 185 Q:

Okay. And you basically hid a black bag in a garbage can also?

# 186 A:

Yeah. I put the clothes there. I didn't think if I was looking for the keys if anybody walked out because dogs were barking, they would take the clothes. I didn't want them to take my -- My jewelry.

# 187 Q:

When you parked the Schwartz car and went through VanWotts into your house, as far as you know, nobody saw you, did they?

# 188 A:

No dogs were barking at me but I don't think anybody saw me. It was 5 o'clock in the morning.

# 189 Q:

Mr. Simpson, isn't this exactly what happened on June 12, 1994 that you went over a fence, you dropped something, you hid a bag and you almost avoided detection then also; isn't that correct, Mr. Simpson?

KEY QUOTE

# 190 MR. BAKER:

I object. That's argumentative, without foundation.

# 191 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 192 A:

That's incorrect. Plus I didn't go over a fence.

# 193 Q:

And if Al Cowlings, your closest friend, says that you told him you went over a fence he's lying; is that correct?

# 194 MR. BAKER:

I object. That calls for hearsay.

# 195 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 196 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) And once again, it's your testimony that you, as you sit here today, that when you pulled out of your driveway that morning, you did not know you were to be arrested for spousal battery; is that correct?

# 197 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered.

# 198 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 199 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) You felt free to leave?

# 200 MR. BAKER:

Asked --

# 201 A:

I left.

# 202 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) Okay.

And you're certain of that?

# 203 A:

I'm certain I left, yes.

# 204 Q:

And you're certain you were told you were going to be arrested?

# 205 A:

They did not tell me I was going to get arrested.

# 206 Q:

You're sure you never hit Nicole that New Year's Day?

# 207 A:

I -- I'm certain I didn't hit her.

I was very physical.

# 208 Q:

You're certain you didn't murder Nicole on June 12?

# 209 A:

Absolutely not.

# 210 Q:

By the way, if Nicole told AC that you had hit her, would she not be truthful?

# 211 MR. BAKER:

This is hearsay.

# 212 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 213 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) If Nicole told AC that you pulled her hair, would she be lying then?

# 214 MR. BAKER:

Your Honor, this is --

# 215 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 216 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) By the way, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Cowlings has been one of your closest friends since childhood, has he not?

# 217 A:

My very best friend.

# 218 Q:

Okay.

Played high school, college, pro football with him?

# 219 A:

That's correct.

# 220 Q:

And there were times, even when you were on the road, that he would live at your house when Nicole was there, right?

# 221 A:

When Nicole wasn't there, yes.

# 222 Q:

And would it be fair to say that he and Nicole loved each other like a brother and sister?

# 223 A:

Very much so.

# 224 Q:

Okay.

And, in fact, AC is the one who -- Al Cowlings drove you up the 405 before you were placed under arrest the 17th; is that correct?

# 225 A:

That's correct.

# 226 Q:

And he was actually a pall bearer at Nicole's funeral?

# 227 A:

Yes.

# 228 Q:

Now, just one other thing Mr. Simpson:

You had testified as to a large number of phone calls you made to Judy Brown right after Nicole left you in early '92, correct?

# 229 A:

Virtually daily.

# 230 Q:

Okay.

Sometimes you called her as much as five times a day?

# 231 A:

I don't think so, 'cause she would call me sometimes, also.

# 232 Q:

You talked to her a lot?

# 233 A:

I talked to her for hours and hours

# 234 Q:

After your divorce became final in '92, that sort of stopped; you didn't keep making those phone calls, did you?

# 235 A:

I think that stopped long before it became final.

We may have talked from time to time before that, but certainly after May, it really wasn't nearly -- wasn't even close to what it had been before, and she would call me from time to time.

# 236 Q:

And is it a fact, Mr. Simpson that right after May 22, when Nicole had given you back the earrings and the diamond bracelet, and told you she didn't want to have anything to do with you anymore, you made one final call to Judy Brown?

# 237 A:

First of all, that didn't happen. What you're claiming didn't happen.

# 238 Q:

So that's not true?

# 239 A:

Not true.

# 240 Q:

After you received the earrings and diamond bracelet back from Nicole, did you make a phone call to Judy Brown?

# 241 A:

I may have talked to her that week, yes.

# 242 Q:

Isn't it true you may have said something to the effect, Judy, the first time it's my fault, but this time it's really going to hurt, Judy.

Do you remember saying something to that effect to her?

# 243 A:

Absolutely not.

# 244 Q:

And Judy, in turn, just told you to let her go, let Nicole go, and get on with her life? Did she say that to you?

# 245 MR. BAKER:

That's hearsay.

# 246 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 247 A:

That's absolutely not true. Judy was continually telling me about her concerns for Nicole, just like Nicole's other friends are -- were telling me at this time.

# 248 Q:

And you did make it hurt for Nicole at the end, didn't you, Mr. Simpson?

# 249 A:

I believe Nicole wanted us back together at that time, so I imagine by her actions, it hurt her a little bit, yes.

# 250 Q:

Well, you did more than that; you murdered her on June 12, didn't you, Mr. Simpson?

KEY QUOTE

# 251 A:

That's absolutely false.

# 252 Q:

And you murdered Ron Goldman?

# 253 A:

That's absolutely wrong.

# 254 MR. KELLY:

I have no further questions, Your Honor.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

O.J. Simpson

I -- I'm certain I didn't hit her. I was very physical.

Simpson's own words create the contradiction Kelly is after — 'certain I didn't hit her' immediately qualified by 'very physical.'

John Kelly

Mr. Simpson, isn't this exactly what happened on June 12, 1994 that you went over a fence, you dropped something, you hid a bag and you almost avoided detection then also; isn't that correct, Mr. Simpson?

The strategic payoff of the entire examination — Kelly explicitly links the 1989 sneak-back behavior pattern to the night of the murders.

O.J. Simpson

I was very, very physical in getting her out of the bedroom. And I got her out of the bedroom, but it was very physical.

Simpson's characterization of the 1989 assault — offered as a reframe, but still an admission of forceful physical contact.

John Kelly

You did more than that; you murdered her on June 12, didn't you, Mr. Simpson?

Direct accusation of murder put to the defendant, forcing a flat denial on the record.

O.J. Simpson

He was there when you got there? / He was there, at one time, when I came back. I think I came back a few hours after that, again, and he was there.

Simpson's hedged, inconsistent account of Cowlings's presence that night — sets up later credibility attacks via Cowlings's potential testimony.

Evidence (1)

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1

911 tape from January 1, 1989 domestic violence call — screaming audible

played in court, ten seconds, over Baker's objection

Notable Exchanges (4)

John Kelly•O.J. Simpson

Kelly walks Simpson through the full sequence of the January 1, 1989 night — sneaking back via a neighbor's property, losing car keys near a fence, hiding a jewelry bag in a garbage can at 5am — then pivots to say this is 'exactly what happened on June 12, 1994.'

strategic

John Kelly•O.J. Simpson

Kelly directly accuses Simpson of murdering Nicole and Ron Goldman as the final questions of the examination. Simpson denies both flatly.

devastating

John Kelly•O.J. Simpson

After playing the 911 tape screams, Kelly asks if an experienced operator who said she could hear someone being hit would be mistaken — objection sustained before Simpson answers.

heated

John Kelly•O.J. Simpson

Kelly introduces the Judy Brown angle — alleged phone call where Simpson supposedly said 'the first time it's my fault, but this time it's really going to hurt' after Nicole returned jewelry. Simpson flatly denies it happened.

revealing

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ O.J. Simpson

prior bad act / pattern evidence

Kelly establishes that on January 1, 1989, Simpson went over or through fences in the middle of the night, dropped something, hid a bag, and nearly avoided detection — then explicitly argues this is the same pattern as June 12, 1994.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

prior inconsistent statement (implied via third party)

Kelly twice implies Al Cowlings would testify that Simpson told him he climbed over the Von Watts fence, and that Cowlings found the car keys at the base of that fence — contradicting Simpson's denial.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

prior inconsistent statement (implied via third party)

Kelly introduces an alleged phone call to Judy Brown where Simpson purportedly said 'this time it's really going to hurt' after Nicole rejected him in May 1994. Simpson denies it happened.

Witness Demeanor

Simpson is evasive and hedging throughout ('I may have,' 'I think,' 'I don't recall')

Simpson corrects Kelly's geography unprompted — 'Tennis courts' when Kelly says 'Von Watts backyard'

Simpson's denial of the murder is flat and immediate: 'That's absolutely false.' / 'That's absolutely wrong.'

Objections

10 objections (6 sustained, 4 overruled)

Proceeding 8411 • 254 utterances • Defense witness

Civil Trial

Department 103