Brian 'Kato' Kaelin testifies about his living arrangements at OJ Simpson's Rockingham estate and reconstructs the evening of June 12, 1994 in detail: his afternoon conversations with Simpson about Nicole and the recital, the McDonald's run around 9:11 PM, and the three loud thumps he heard behind his bedroom wall around 10:40-10:50 PM that rattled a picture and led him to discover the limousine waiting outside. He also recounts a 1993 incident where Nicole's back door was broken and he was asked by police to fix it.
# 1 MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, Plaintiffs call Brian Kaelin.
BRIAN KAELIN, called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiffs, was examined and testified as follows:
# 2 THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
# 3 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: I do.
# 4 THE CLERK: Please be seated.
And would you please state and spell your name for the record?
# 5 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: Brian Kaelin K-A-E-L-I-N, B-R-I-A-N.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PETROCELLI:
# 6 Q: Morning, Mr. Kaelin.
# 8 Q: You are also known by Kato?
# 10 Q: Okay.
In October of 1993, October 25 to be specific, you were living with -- you were living at the residence of Nicole Brown Simpson in a guest house?
# 12 Q: And at that time, were you present during at least part of a verbal argument between Nicole and Mr. Simpson?
# 14 Q: And the police came?
# 16 Q: Did there come a time when you had occasion to observe the back door that leads out from her house to the backyard?
# 18 Q: And was that when the police were wrapping up their work and getting ready to leave?
# 20 Q: What did you see?
# 21 A: The door -- the French doors in the back of the Gretna Green house that was broken on top, and there was wood on the floor.
# 23 A: They asked me to, the police, to hammer it shut, the door.
So I picked up the wood; I hammered it and put extra nails in for safety.
# 24 Q: There was actually wood on the floor.
You picked it up and you fixed it?
# 27 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 28 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, did -- was that door broken from before, by the way?
# 29 MR. BAKER: Objection. Foundation.
# 30 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 31 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you know?
# 32 A: It was at one time broken. I don't know if it was the same part, but it had a break to it.
# 33 Q: Is there any doubt in your mind that the damage that you saw was fresh damage on that day?
# 35 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 36 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: It was fresh damage.
# 37 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Let me ask you the question again.
# 38 MR. BAKER: Move to strike the answer.
# 39 THE COURT: Stricken.
# 40 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) The piece that you fixed?
# 42 Q: Had you seen that piece before that day, on the ground?
# 44 Q: Okay.
And what did you do with that piece?
# 45 A: I got on a chair and I hammered it back where it was broken from.
# 46 Q: Okay.
And did you do anything else to the door?
# 47 A: Yeah. I think there was maybe another piece. I hammered that in there; then I put extra nails on top of the door.
# 48 Q: Let me now move on.
At the end of the year, you -- did you leave Nicole's guest house?
# 50 Q: Where did you move?
# 52 Q: The home of Mr. Simpson?
# 54 Q: And where did you live at Mr. Simpson's house?
# 55 A: I had a guest house in the back.
# 56 MR. PETROCELLI: And let me put a board up, Your Honor.
# 57 (Counsel places board on easel.) # 58 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'd like to ask you some questions about the property, okay?
First of all, you moved in when?
# 59 A: I moved in about January 7.
# 60 Q: And you were living there still, as of June 12, 1994?
# 62 Q: Were you close friends with O.J. Simpson?
# 64 Q: How would you describe your relationship with him?
# 65 A: When he was around, I would say hi. Never went out with him socially, and pretty much had his life, I had my life.
# 66 Q: Okay.
Did you have access to his house?
# 68 Q: The inside of the house?
# 70 Q: Did you have access?
# 72 Q: Did you have the alarm code?
# 74 Q: Did you guys hang out together?
# 76 Q: Did you go out on double dates?
# 78 MR. PETROCELLI: This is 116, Your Honor, this board here.
# 79 (Exhibit 116 displayed on easel.) # 80 MR. PETROCELLI: Everybody see?
# 81 (Nod affirmatively.) # 82 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Kaelin, can you see from there?
# 83 MR. PETROCELLI: May he step down, Your Honor?
# 84 (Nods affirmatively.) # 85 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Where did you live?
# 86 A: Right here (indicating).
# 87 Q: In that room.
And for you to get to your room from the outside of the property, what did you do?
# 88 A: I would go through this gate (indicating).
# 90 A: Come in here, go back down the stairs to the room.
# 91 Q: You had a key to your room?
# 93 Q: Did that key work any other doors?
# 95 Q: So you didn't go through the front of the house --
# 97 Q: -- to get inside your room?
# 99 Q: Okay.
And this part is the main residence. Is that where Mr. Simpson lived?
# 101 Q: Okay.
Did the -- on the weekend of June 11 and June 10 -- June 11 and June 12, excuse me -- did Mr. Simpson have a dog on the property?
# 103 Q: And what was the name of that dog?
# 105 Q: Can you put up the picture of Chachi.
(Exhibit 114 displayed).
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you know how to spell that?
# 106 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: C-H-A-C-H-I.
# 107 MR. PETROCELLI: Can you get close up?
This is Exhibit 114.
# 108 (The instrument herein referred to as a Photograph of Mr. Simpson's dog, Chachi at front gate on Rockingham, was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 114.) # 109 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is that Chachi?
# 111 MR. PETROCELLI: Can you give me a wider shot on that now, Steve, as wide as it will go.
# 112 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) What gate is that?
# 113 A: That's the Ashford gate.
# 114 Q: You say that's the gate you usually use to get inside the property?
# 116 Q: Where did you usually park your car?
# 117 A: I usually was on Ashford. That's one of my spots. That's my car right there. (Indicating.)
# 118 Q: Can you point to it.
# 119 (The witness complies.) # 120 MR. PETROCELLI: Let the record reflect the witness is pointing to the area -- I guess that would be -- what direction is that? North, east? Help me out. East?
# 121 MR. BAKER: It's south. He's pointing south from the Ashford gate, south.
# 122 MR. PETROCELLI: I'm not too good with directions.
To the left of the Ashford gate.
# 123 MR. BAKER: Oh, left is east. I agree with that. I'm sorry.
# 124 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) To the left of the Ashford gate, correct?
# 126 Q: Where did Mr. Simpson usually park his Bronco, if you know?
# 127 A: Usually on Ashford.
# 128 Q: Can you point where on Ashford Mr. Simpson usually parked his Bronco?
# 129 A: I think it would be a wider shot.
It would be here or on this side of the street, sometimes there (indicating).
# 130 Q: And the first place you pointed to was where the mailbox is?
# 132 Q: Okay.
And we're talking about the white Bronco?
# 134 Q: And that's based on your observations, living there between January 1994 and June 1994, right.
# 135 MR. BAKER: Leading, Your Honor.
# 136 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 137 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: Yes.
# 139 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) What is the --
# 140 MR. BAKER: Wait. Wait. Time out.
Could we get this witness directed when an objection is sustained, not to answer, please.
# 141 THE COURT: If you would just not lead, it would solve everything, Counsel.
# 142 MR. PETROCELLI: Mr. Kaelin, when there's an objection, hold off for a second; let the judge rule, okay?
# 143 (Nods affirmatively.) # 144 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You gave some testimony about where Mr. Simpson usually parked his Bronco. What was that based on?
# 145 A: Seeing it usually parked there.
# 146 Q: And the time that you lived there was when?
# 148 MR. PETROCELLI: Give me the picture of Kato.
The other Kato.
# 149 (Exhibit 28, Photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson's dog, Kato, was displayed on the TV screen.) # 151 MR. PETROCELLI: This is Exhibit 28.
# 152 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) By the way, do you recognize the animal?
# 154 Q: What is the name of the animal?
# 156 Q: Do you know who it was named after?
# 158 Q: Do you know why that is?
# 159 A: The kids were thinking of names to call it and then they said "Kato."
# 160 Q: And was Kato, the dog, on the Simpson property on June 11 and June 12?
# 162 Q: So how many dogs were on the property during those two days?
# 164 Q: Now, could you describe the physical condition of Chachi?
# 165 A: I think Chachi had arthritis in the leg; it was always hobbling, kind of arthritic.
# 166 MR. BAKER: I move to strike on the basis of no veterinary foundation.
# 168 THE COURT: Overruled. Lay opinion as to a dog's condition is common.
# 170 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Based on your observations of Chachi, was he an old dog or younger dog?
# 172 Q: Did he move quickly, slowly?
# 174 Q: And did you ever make any observations about what Chachi would do if the Ashford gates or the Rockingham gates opened up?
# 175 A: Chachi usually stayed in one spot on the grass.
# 176 Q: Did you see Chachi run out of the gate, either gate, when the gates were open?
# 178 Q: Did you ever see Mr. Simpson walk Chachi?
# 180 Q: Did you ever see Mr. Simpson take Chachi outside the property?
# 182 Q: You ever been inside the garage of Mr. Simpson?
# 184 Q: Okay.
What did it look like?
# 187 A: It had weights, a car, lot of boxes, I think televisions.
# 188 MR. PETROCELLI: Give me 188, Steve.
# 189 (Mr. Foster displays photograph on TV screen.) # 190 (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of inside of Mr. Simpson's garage was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 188.) # 191 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) How many times were you in that garage?
# 192 A: Maybe two, three, or four times.
# 193 Q: I show you Exhibit 188.
Does that appear to be the condition of the garage at the time you saw it?
# 195 Q: Prior to June 12, 1994, did you know whether there was a door in that garage that led outside?
# 197 Q: Had you ever used that door?
# 199 Q: Had you ever seen anyone use that door?
# 201 Q: Let's turn to the weekend of June 11 and June 12.
On June 11, did you have occasion to spend any time with Mr. Simpson?
# 204 A: It was in the afternoon, on June 11.
# 205 Q: What were the two of you doing?
# 207 Q: And did anything come up in the conversation that you recall now?
# 208 A: Yes. There was a movie on, "The World According to Garp," and there was a part that was coming up in the film that he wanted me to see. And it was a --
You want me to go on?
# 210 MR. BAKER: I'd like a question, Your Honor, instead of a narrative response.
# 211 THE COURT: Ask a question.
# 212 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Please relate the conversation between Mr. Simpson and you regarding the Garp movie.
# 213 A: He wanted me to see this part that was coming up in the film with --
KEY QUOTE # 214 MR. BAKER: Move to strike as nonresponsive.
# 215 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 216 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You may answer.
# 217 A: And there's a part in the film where the wife was going to give oral sex in the car, and he wanted me to see that part.
An he compared it to seeing oral sex -- Nicole giving oral sex at the Gretna Green house.
# 218 Q: What did Mr. Simpson say, as best you can recall, when he pointed out the oral sex scene to you on television?
# 219 A: That he was outside Gretna Green and saw Nicole doing it to a gentleman named Keith.
# 220 Q: And did he tell you when he had seen this?
# 221 A: I don't remember the date.
# 222 Q: Did Mr. Simpson say anything to you that day about Nicole Brown Simpson, other than what you just said?
# 223 A: There was talk of having a white picket fence -- a white picket fence and having the kids around; that he liked the sound of having children around.
# 224 Q: Did he say anything else that you can recall?
# 225 A: He was getting ready for a dinner, a black-tie dinner, and he was feeling like he didn't really want to go.
# 226 Q: And did he indicate who was going?
# 228 MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I'm going to object to this witness testifying as to what Mr. Simpson was allegedly feeling. He can certainly testify as to what he said, but I don't think he has any more psychological background than he does veterinary background.
# 229 THE COURT: Sustained.
You may inquire as to what he said.
# 230 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) What we're interested in is what Mr. Simpson said and did.
# 231 A: He said he didn't feel like going to this dinner.
# 233 A: He just didn't want to go.
I think he was just tired.
# 234 MR. BAKER: I object to him saying what he thinks.
# 235 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did he say he was tired?
# 237 MR. BAKER: Move to strike what he thinks.
# 238 THE COURT: You may inquire whether those were his words. If those were his words, the objection is overruled.
# 239 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Were those his words?
# 241 Q: Did he say to you who he was going to the dinner with?
# 243 Q: What did he say?
# 244 A: That he was going to the dinner with Paula Barbieri.
# 245 Q: And that was the extent of your conversation with him on that day?
# 246 A: Pretty much, yes.
# 247 Q: Did you see Mr. Simpson the next day --
# 249 Q: -- Sunday, June 12?
# 251 Q: When did you see him on that day for the first time?
# 252 A: It was in the afternoon, approximately at 2 o'clock or ...
# 253 Q: And where were you with Mr. Simpson at that time?
# 254 A: In the kitchen nook area to the house.
# 255 Q: And who was there?
# 256 A: I -- just myself.
# 259 Q: And did you have any conversation with him at that time?
# 261 Q: And can you recall what was said?
# 262 A: Once he got in -- he longed for a white picket fence, to have the family.
# 263 Q: Is that what Mr. Simpson said?
# 264 A: That's what Mr. Simpson said.
# 265 Q: Okay.
What else did Mr. Simpson say?
# 266 A: Well, he was on the phone at this time, to a Traci Adell, and was telling her that --
# 267 Q: Who is Traci Adell?
# 268 A: Traci Adell was a friend of mine that he was talking to on the phone.
# 269 Q: How did he get her number?
# 270 A: Through -- he left a number for her by getting the number from me, and she called back.
# 271 Q: So, someone that you introduced him to?
# 272 A: On the phone, yes.
# 273 Q: And after the Traci Adell conversation, did Mr. Simpson say anything else to you that afternoon?
# 275 Q: What did he say?
# 276 A: There was talk of the IRS, and he was mentioning how he was going to do something with the IRS, with changing Nicole's address, and somehow that would cause some sort of financial damage to her.
KEY QUOTE # 277 Q: And is that what he said?
# 279 Q: Did he say anything else to you about Nicole in that afternoon conversation, if you can recall?
# 280 A: I don't think so.
# 281 Q: Did he say anything to you in that conversation about Paula Barbieri?
# 283 Q: What did he say?
# 284 MR. BAKER: Relevancy, Your Honor.
# 285 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 286 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did he say anything to you about a discussion with Paula Barbieri and the recital that Mr. Simpson was going to attend?
# 287 MR. BAKER: Objection. Relevance.
# 288 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 289 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You may answer.
# 290 A: Yeah. O.J. had said that he didn't want Paula to go to the recital.
And he was mentioning that Paula probably wanted to get married and have kids, and he was fine, because he had enough kids now and he didn't want anymore kids. And he wasn't sure that she was the one for him to settle down with.
# 291 Q: Did Mr. Simpson tell you why he did not want Paula to go to the recital?
# 292 MR. BAKER: Objection. Relevancy.
# 293 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 294 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: Mr. Simpson had said that what he wanted to do was -- he thought it would be a family thing and he didn't want Paula to be there.
# 295 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, did you go someplace when that conversation ended?
# 297 Q: And what did you do?
# 298 A: I played basketball.
# 299 Q: And at some point in time, you got back in from basketball. Do you recall when that was?
# 300 A: I think it was about 6:30 or 7:00, approximately.
# 301 Q: You got back from basketball, what did you do when you returned from basketball?
# 302 A: I went back into the nook area.
He called me in.
# 303 Q: You entered the property, right?
# 305 Q: Just so we understand what you mean about the nook area, we're referring to 1126.
You entered the Ashford gate?
# 307 Q: And you're starting to walk there?
# 308 A: I'm starting to walk right in front there. And I think he said "Kato."
# 309 Q: And Mr. Simpson is where, right here?
# 310 A: Should I go down there?
# 312 A: The nook area would be here (indicating).
# 313 Q: Okay.
You're pointing to this little area that juts out from the main residence, and he then called you into the nook area?
# 315 Q: Okay.
And when you went inside and spoke to him, was this before or after he had come back from the recital?
# 316 A: This was after the recital.
# 317 Q: And what, if anything, did Mr. Simpson say to you about the recital that he had just attended?
# 318 A: O.J. had said that he was wondering what it would be like for these women to be wearing their outfits when they're grandmas, he had said.
# 319 Q: Did he indicate which women he was referring to?
# 321 Q: What did he say about that?
# 322 A: What is she going to do when she's a grandma?
# 325 Q: What did -- describe the outfit.
# 327 Q: And what else did Mr. Simpson say to you about the recital, if anything?
# 328 A: He said that Nicole was playing hardball with him because he wanted to see his daughter, Sydney, and she wasn't --
# 330 A: -- allowing him to.
# 331 Q: Mr. Simpson indicated to you what in regard to Sydney and Nicole?
# 332 A: He regarded that he wanted to see his daughter and Nicole was playing hardball, because she wouldn't let him see her after the recital.
# 333 Q: And did he say anything else to you about the recital that you can remember?
# 335 Q: By the way, what was Mr. Simpson wearing at the time of that conversation, at about 6:30, 7 o'clock?
# 336 A: I thought it was a sharp-looking sweatsuit, dark, white zipper.
# 337 Q: What do you mean by a sweatsuit?
# 338 A: Like a jogging outfit.
# 339 Q: When that conversation ended, what did you do?
# 340 A: I'd asked if it was okay for me to take a jacuzzi.
# 341 Q: What did he say?
# 343 Q: And then what happened?
# 344 A: I took a jacuzzi.
# 345 Q: And after you finished your jacuzzi, what did you do?
# 346 A: I finished the jacuzzi; I went back into my room, and then he came to my door and told me that I forgot to turn the jacuzzi jets off.
# 347 Q: Okay. You're in your room now?
# 349 MR. PETROCELLI: Can we have Exhibit -- Steve -- yeah, give us 143, the inside of Mr. Kaelin's room.
# 350 (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of Mr. Kaelin's room at Rockingham was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 143.) # 351 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, is that your room -- was that your room, I should say?
# 353 Q: And this (indicating), is that a door there?
# 354 A: Yes, it's a door.
# 355 Q: And is that door --
Now I'm going to go to 116.
Does that door point out into the yard here?
# 357 Q: Okay.
And this is a wall behind your bed?
# 359 Q: And that's a wall that is along this south pathway where this air conditioner is located?
# 361 MR. PETROCELLI: Can we have another shot of that room, Steve.
# 362 (Mr. Foster complies.) # 363 THE REPORTER: Excuse me; what exhibit is that?
# 364 MR. PETROCELLI: 194.
# 365 (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of Mr. Kaelin's room at Rockingham was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 194.) # 366 Q: That's another picture of your room?
That's the bed you slept in?
# 368 Q: There is a picture on the wall. Is that the same wall where the air conditioner was located?
# 369 A: The back wall, yes.
# 370 Q: And the air conditioner is on the other side of the bed?
# 371 (Nods affirmatively.) # 372 Q: Is that correct?
# 374 Q: Okay.
So you're in your room and Mr. Simpson came to your room. And what did he say?
# 375 A: He had told me that I forgot to turn the jacuzzi jets off.
I apologized.
# 376 Q: And you remember what he was wearing at that time?
# 377 A: It was the same outfit I'd seen before, the dark sweats.
# 378 Q: Was it common, by the way, for Mr. Simpson to come to your room?
# 380 MR. BAKER: Object, your Honor. There's no foundation.
# 381 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 382 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Was that -- was that the first time he had been to your room?
# 383 A: I think maybe once before.
# 384 Q: After you apologized, what happened next?
# 385 A: He had left, and it seemed like he came back again, a short time later.
# 386 Q: And when Mr. Simpson returned a short time later, what were you doing?
# 387 A: I was on the phone.
# 388 Q: And who were you talking to?
# 390 Q: Where did O'Brien live at the time you were talking to him?
# 392 Q: And what happened when Mr. Simpson came to your room this second time this evening?
# 393 A: He asked to borrow some money.
# 394 Q: You were on the phone?
# 395 A: I was on -- on the phone.
# 396 Q: What did he do? He knocked on the door?
# 397 A: He shouted my name.
I didn't get off the phone; I put it down on the bed; and I said, "What's up?"
And he said, I have an embarrassing question; I've got to ask you for some money because all I have is hundreds.
# 398 Q: Did he say to you why he needed the money?
# 399 A: For a sky cap to tip him, I believe.
# 400 Q: And what did you say?
# 401 A: I said sure. I gave him a twenty.
# 402 Q: And then what happened?
# 403 A: Well, then he said he was going to get something to eat, and I invited myself to come along, and --
# 404 Q: How did you do that?
# 405 A: I said, hey, I'm kind of hungry; can I go?
# 406 Q: Let me back up for a second.
After you gave him the 20-dollar bill, what did he say next to you?
# 407 MR. BAKER: Asked and answered.
# 408 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 409 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: That he --
# 410 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You said something about going to dinner, if you can recall?
# 411 A: Yeah. He had said that he was going to get something to eat.
# 412 MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I object to that leading of Mr. Petrocelli. He can ask a question without saying --
# 413 MR. PETROCELLI: I was trying to bring him back to the same point of reference.
# 414 MR. BAKER: Then going to dinner.
# 415 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 416 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You understand where we are in the testimony?
I'm trying to get you to tell the jury, as best as you can recall, what Mr. Simpson said to you after you gave him the 20-dollar bill?
# 417 A: Okay. I was -- he had mentioned that he was going to get something to eat.
# 418 Q: Is that what he said?
# 420 Q: I'm going to get something to eat?
# 422 Q: Okay. And what did you then say?
# 423 A: I wanted to come along, and I asked if it was okay for me to go.
# 424 Q: Is that what you said?
# 425 A: Yes. Can I go?
I was on the phone. I told Tom, my friend, hey, I'll call you back.
# 426 Q: And then what did Mr. Simpson say when you said, "Can I go?"
# 427 A: There was a pause.
# 428 MR. BAKER: Move to strike as nonresponsive, Your Honor.
# 429 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 430 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) You may answer.
# 431 A: There was a pause, and I felt as if I wasn't supposed to invite myself.
# 432 MR. BAKER: Move to strike as nonresponsive.
# 433 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 434 MR. BAKER: Can he answer the question?
# 435 THE COURT: Spit it out.
# 436 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: So I invited myself.
# 437 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) What did Mr. Simpson say after you said --
# 438 A: It was quite a pause. Then he said to me, yeah, you can come along.
# 439 Q: Okay.
And you, in terms of your state of mind when he said that, after the pause, what did you feel?
# 440 A: That I invited myself.
# 441 MR. BAKER: I object. It's irrelevant.
# 442 THE COURT: The answer may remain.
Let's move it along.
# 443 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, when you -- when Mr. Simpson came down to see you, did you look at the watch or the clock to see what time it was?
# 445 MR. PETROCELLI: Let me show you the next exhibit in order, exhibit -- the next exhibit -- I should say Exhibit C-189.
# 446 (The instrument herein referred to as Blow up entitled calls made by Brian Kaelin June 12, 1994 was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 189.) # 447 Q: We showed you your phone records.
From that phone record, can you tell us what time Mr. Simpson came to your room and asked you for the money --
# 449 Q: -- and then went off to dinner?
This is 189.
There's an entry on June 12 at 2103, which is 9:03, to San Diego for 8 minutes. Is that the call?
# 453 Q: So at the end of that call, would have been 9:11 p.m.?
# 455 Q: And is that the time that you think you left with Mr. Simpson?
# 457 Q: Okay.
And when you hung up the phone with Mr. Simpson -- with Mr. O'Brien, excuse me -- you then proceeded with Mr. Simpson to go where?
# 458 A: Through the house.
# 460 A: To the nook area.
# 462 A: And into the Bentley.
# 463 Q: Now, during this entire period of time, from the moment you invited yourself to dinner, to the time you got in the car, the Bentley, did Mr. Simpson ask you where you wanted to go for dinner?
# 465 Q: Did Mr. Simpson say anything to you about what dress you should wear or he should wear for dinner?
# 467 Q: Did you say anything to Mr. Simpson about where you should go for dinner?
# 469 Q: Was there any conversation at all about where you were going to dinner?
# 471 Q: When you got in the Bentley, did you know where you were going to dinner?
# 473 MR. BAKER: Objection. Relevance, Your Honor.
# 474 MR. PETROCELLI: Okay.
# 475 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 476 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, what happened when you got into the Bentley?
# 477 A: I got into the passenger side and we took off.
# 478 Q: Okay.
And what gate did you leave out of?
# 479 A: It would be the Rockingham gate.
# 480 Q: Okay.
And you -- when -- you know how Mr. Simpson opened the Rockingham gate, from inside his Bentley?
# 481 A: I think there was a button he presses.
# 482 Q: And the gates automatically open?
# 484 Q: Did Mr. Simpson do anything unusual when he got to the Rockingham gate before he left?
# 486 Q: Did he stop and wait for the gates to close before he took off?
# 488 Q: Did he say anything to you about looking for Chachi?
# 489 MR. BAKER: Objection. Leading and suggestive.
# 490 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 491 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: No.
# 492 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay.
Where did you and Mr. Simpson drive?
# 493 A: We drove to McDonald's.
# 494 Q: Okay.
At any point during the ride to McDonald's, did Mr. Simpson say to you where you were going?
# 496 Q: So you didn't know?
# 498 Q: At some point in time, he pulled into a McDonald's?
# 500 Q: And what happened then?
# 501 A: Went to the drive-through and he ordered the food.
# 502 Q: Okay.
Happen to remember what he ordered?
# 503 A: I think it was a large hamburger.
# 504 MR. BAKER: Relevance.
# 505 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 506 BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN: Large one, I think fries, and a drink.
# 507 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And you ordered?
# 508 A: A grilled McChicken and French fries and an orange drink.
# 511 Q: And did -- do you know if Mr. Simpson -- how he -- you paid by giving up the money to Mr. Simpson?
# 513 Q: Was there any change coming back?
# 515 Q: Who handed it back to you?
# 517 Q: Do you know whether Mr. Simpson got any change for the airport, for the sky cap?
# 519 Q: After the food was ordered, then what happened?
# 520 A: Then we drove right back.
He ate his food and drove right back to the house.
# 521 Q: Mr. Simpson ate his food in the car?
# 523 Q: Did you eat your food in the car?
# 525 Q: What were you doing with your food?
# 526 A: It was in my lap.
# 527 Q: Was there a lot of conversation in the car?
# 529 Q: Now, what happened when you returned to Rockingham?
# 530 A: Okay. We got -- I got out of the car.
# 531 Q: First of all, do you remember which gate you used to get back on to the property?
# 532 A: I'm pretty sure it was the Ashford gate.
So I got out of the car and had my food and I started to walk towards the nook area and I looked behind and he wasn't next to me, and then I said, well, I'll go to my room.
# 533 Q: When you got out of the car and -- with your food and started walking to the nook area, why were you doing that?
# 534 A: Because I thought -- we had gone to get the dinner together -- that I was going to eat it there too, you know, eat it with him.
# 535 Q: Okay. Did you assume that he was going into the kitchen with you?
# 537 MR. BAKER: Irrelevant, and his state of mind is immaterial.
# 538 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 539 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) When you -- as you approached the kitchen nook door -- is there a door there?
# 541 Q: -- what did you see Mr. Simpson doing?
# 542 A: He was at the front door of the Bentley, just standing there.
# 543 Q: Okay. Was he walking?
# 545 Q: Was he bending down?
# 547 Q: Was he scooping out lettuce from the driver's side of his car?
# 549 Q: Was he doing anything to indicate that he was cleaning or picking things up?
# 551 Q: What did you say to him?
# 552 A: I looked, and I said I'll go to my room.
# 553 Q: Okay. And when you got to your room, what did you do?
# 554 A: I think I got the food and I called Tom back.
# 555 Q: And from your cell phone records, again --
# 556 MR. PETROCELLI: What exhibit number is that, 189?
# 557 A: It was a regular phone.
# 558 Q: I'm sorry. From your telephone records, Exhibit 189, there's an entry at 9:37 to San Diego, 7 minute phone call.
# 559 (Nods affirmatively.) # 560 Q: Is that the time that you made a phone call, when you got back from McDonald's?
# 562 Q: Using that as a point of reference, 9:37, what time did you get back to your room following the trip to McDonald's with Mr. Simpson?
# 563 A: I got back to the room probably right at 9:37, possibly, called Tom immediately.
# 565 MR. PETROCELLI: I'm going to put up 116 again, the diagram of Rockingham.
# 566 (Exhibit 116 displayed.) # 567 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) And if you would, with the Court's permission, walk over here and point to where the -- Mr. Simpson's Bentley was parked when you returned from Rockingham?
# 569 Q: In that little alcove there?
# 571 MR. BAKER: Can we put an X.
# 572 MR. PETROCELLI: Indicating this alcove.
# 573 MR. BAKER: I understand he's indicating.
# 574 MR. PETROCELLI: I don't think we need an X.
# 575 THE COURT: It's his exhibit.
You want an overlay; do your overlay.
# 576 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Where's the door, by looking at Exhibit 116, to the kitchen nook that you were heading towards?
# 578 Q: At what point in the path from the Bentley to the kitchen nook did you decide to go back to your room?
# 580 Q: Okay. And at what point in your trip from the Bentley to the kitchen did you turn around and see Mr. Simpson, where were you?
# 581 A: I was about here (indicating).
# 582 Q: And where was he?
# 583 A: Still right here, at the car (indicating).
# 584 Q: Okay. Now, after you went back to your room, what did you do?
# 585 A: From McDonald's?
# 587 A: I called Tom up.
# 588 Q: And after you got off the phone call with Tom, what did you do?
# 589 A: I was going to type up resumes. I -- there was a typewriter in the office area, so I plugged it in two outlets and I tried to plug it in everywhere and it wasn't working. After I sort of gave up on it, I called up Rachel.
# 590 Q: And who is Rachel?
# 591 A: She was a friend of mine.
# 592 Q: And she's a local call?
# 594 Q: And you spoke to Rachel on the telephone?
# 596 Q: What else did you do?
# 597 A: Well, the time I was talking to her I was kind of -- had the phone in the bed. I said, Rachel, I'm plugging in this typewriter, it's not working here. I was explaining to her that the outlets weren't working. And I stayed on the phone with her for awhile.
# 598 Q: And during the time that you were in the room -- you were in your room, right?
# 600 Q: Did you ever leave the property during this time you're describing?
# 602 Q: Okay. You left the property when something happened later on, right?
# 604 Q: Before we get to that, during the time that you're in your room talking to Rachel about a typewriter, did you leave the room at all?
# 606 Q: Did you see Mr. Simpson at all?
# 608 Q: Did you hear him?
# 610 Q: Okay. Were you looking at the clock and watch at all?
# 612 Q: Then what happened?
# 613 A: Then I heard these three noises that were thumps, three loud thumps, and my picture moved in the...
KEY QUOTE # 614 MR. PETROCELLI: Can we have the photo of his room with the picture.
This is 143 on the television monitor.
Give me 194, Steve.
# 615 (Exhibit 194 displayed.) # 616 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) When the noises occurred, did you look at a watch or a clock?
# 618 Q: And you said a picture moved. Can you point to Exhibit 194 and tell us what picture you're referring to?
# 619 A: This picture. It just moved after I heard the thumps, the picture moved that way.
# 620 Q: It tilted a little bit?
# 622 Q: How do you know that it moved?
# 624 Q: Now, where were you at the precise time that you heard these noises?
# 625 A: Leaning up against this bed, like that, talking on the phone (indicating).
# 626 Q: Talking on the phone?
# 628 Q: So your back was against the head board?
# 630 Q: And you said you heard these noises.
What did they sound like?
# 631 A: Like someone falling back behind my bedroom wall.
# 632 Q: And what makes you say that?
# 633 A: Because that's what it sounded like to me after --
# 634 Q: You previously testified about the rhythm and volume of these noises.
Do you remember that?
# 636 Q: By hitting the witness stand.
Can you demonstrate that to the jury, the rhythm and the volume of the noises.
# 637 (Witness pounds witness stand three times.) # 638 Q: And did you feel anything against your back?
# 640 Q: What did you feel?
# 642 Q: Okay. What did you then do?
# 643 A: Well, I talked to Rachel on the phone, I said, Rachel, did we just have an earthquake?
# 644 Q: Why did you say that?
# 645 A: I kind of wanted to believe that it was an earthquake because the picture moved. And she said no.
# 646 Q: Why did you want to believe it was an earthquake?
# 647 A: Because I didn't want to believe there was someone back there.
# 648 Q: And what did Rachel then say?
# 650 Q: What did you then do?
# 651 A: I explained to her what had happened, the picture moved, and I said I should probably check on this.
# 652 Q: What did you do?
# 653 A: I got off the phone with her and then -- I have a flashlight, pen light, in the drawer, and I went to check on the noise.
# 654 Q: About how long of a period of time were you on the telephone with Rachel from the time you heard these noises until the time you got off?
# 655 A: About two to three minutes.
# 656 Q: And at two to three minutes, what was said?
# 659 A: I was saying to her that this noise -- that it first was an earthquake, and I was trying to convince myself that -- not to be scared. I told her, well, I'm going to check on this noise. If you don't hear from me in ten minutes, be worried. In a joking manner. And she was saying why don't you come over here, that type --
# 660 Q: She said why don't you come over here?
# 662 Q: What did you say?
# 663 A: I said no, I better check on this.
# 664 Q: Was there anything else said?
# 666 Q: Is that all that was said in the time from when you heard the noises until you got off?
# 667 A: I believe so, yes.
# 668 MR. BAKER: Leading and suggestive, Your Honor.
# 669 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 670 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Can you recall anything else that was said other than what you have testified to thus far?
# 672 Q: From the time you heard the noises until the time you got off?
# 673 A: No, I think that was it.
# 674 Q: Okay. Now, when you got off the phone, did you look at a watch or a clock?
# 676 Q: Okay. Why don't you then describe again what you did when you got off the phone?
# 677 A: I went out through the -- my door.
# 678 Q: First you did what?
# 679 A: I opened the drawer.
# 681 A: And I had a flashlight.
# 682 Q: Now, there's a dresser right next to your bed here, underneath the picture.
Is that the dresser that had the drawer that you opened?
# 684 Q: Okay. And you got -- what kind of flashlight did you get?
# 685 A: Like about the size of this pen (indicating to magic marker). Or marker.
# 687 A: And I went outside and I went to the path to the front of the house and I followed that around.
# 688 Q: Now, could you go over to Exhibit 116, and it might be helpful if you use this pointer, and could you trace for the jury the route that you took when you left your house upon hearing -- left your room upon hearing the noises?
# 689 A: I went out my door, through to these stairs, followed this to that path and I took this path all the way there.
# 690 Q: Okay. Why don't you stop there for a moment.
At what pace were you walking?
# 692 Q: From the moment you grabbed the flashlight or pen light or whatever it was, till the time that you started walking out, did you do anything in between?
# 694 Q: And did you walk directly to the area that you just traced?
# 696 Q: And approximately how long did that take from -- let me clarify the question.
How long did it take from when you got off the phone with Rachel until the time that you arrived around this point right here (indicating to Exhibit)?
# 697 A: About 30 to 40 seconds.
# 698 Q: Now, when you arrived at that point, and for the record, I was pointing to where the pathway intersects the driveway, did you see anything?
# 699 A: Yes, there was the limousine at the gate.
# 700 Q: You saw a limousine at the gate?
# 702 Q: Where was the limousine parked, if you could be a little more precise?
# 703 A: Here's the gate, and the car was pulled all the way up to the gate.
# 704 Q: When you passed that limousine or walked by that limousine, did you stop?
# 708 Q: Did you do anything in regard to the limousine?
# 710 Q: What did you do?
# 711 A: I went back, followed this -- the driveway, and I went behind by the garage area, where I -- there's a little gate here that's off the hinge, I picked it up and I moved to the side and I walked down just a bit of the way with the pen light and tried to look.
# 712 Q: And what was your purpose in going where you just described?
# 713 A: Well, I heard it back here and I thought that's the way I have to go to see if -- where the noise is coming from.
# 714 Q: Okay. I'd like you to assume that based upon cell phone records and other evidence in the case, that the limousine driver saw you --
# 715 MR. BAKER: I'm going to object to this, Your Honor.
# 716 MR. PETROCELLI: Excuse me, your honor, I haven't finished my question.
# 717 MR. BAKER: I understand that. But there's no -- this is leading, suggestive, and hypothetical.
# 718 MR. PETROCELLI: It is not leading.
# 719 THE COURT: Sustained. I'll sustain it.
# 720 Q: (BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay. Do you have an estimate of the time that you heard these noises?
# 721 A: In between the 10:40 to 10:50 hour.
# 722 Q: Okay. Now, is that -- what do you base that on?
# 723 A: The phone calls.
# 724 Q: All right. Did you at any time --
# 725 A: I didn't, I never looked at a clock.
# 726 Q: I can't hear you.
# 727 A: I didn't look at a clock.
# 730 Q: Now, when you walked past that limo driver, after hearing the noises, was that the first time that evening that you walked past a limo driver on the property?
# 732 Q: Okay. Why don't you complete what you were telling us. You walked behind that garage, correct?
# 734 Q: And what did you do?
# 735 MR. BAKER: I object to a narrative.
# 736 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 737 A: I walked a few steps, five feet, and I shined the light, and the light was -- it's somewhat dim, and I went back out that same path. I put the gate back up.
# 738 Q: Well, how far did you get down?
# 740 Q: Okay. Why did you stop?
# 742 Q: And why were you scared?
# 743 A: Because I had a little pen light and that's it.
# 746 Q: Could you see in front of you?
# 748 Q: When you turned around, what did you then do?
# 749 A: All right. So I went back up this way and I put the gate back up and I noticed the limo still was outside and I thought maybe I should let this limo driver in.
# 750 Q: Okay. Why don't you -- before you get to the limo driver, let me ask you a couple of other questions.
When you did your first route around the back of the house to the front of the house, were -- were you able to observe the main residence?
# 752 Q: Okay. Did you notice if there were any lights on in the downstairs part of the main residence in the back when you were walking around?
# 753 A: I thought maybe the bedroom lights might have been on.
# 754 Q: Now, the bedroom is not -- is the bedroom downstairs or upstairs?
# 758 Q: So what are you saying, that you thought you saw what upstairs?
# 759 A: I thought maybe the lights were -- in the upstairs were on, possibly.
# 760 Q: Could you tell if his television was on?
# 762 Q: Could you tell --
# 763 A: No, it wasn't on.
# 764 Q: Could you tell if it had been on?
# 765 A: No.
I think I'm confusing the question. I'm sorry.
# 766 Q: Let me ask you this: Had you ever seen from your vantage point in the back of the house, in the backyard, up into Mr. Simpson's bedroom, could you ever tell if he were watching television?
# 767 A: Yeah, I could see a reflection.
# 768 Q: You could see what?
# 769 A: A reflection that I could tell if the TV was on.
# 772 Q: Okay. What do you mean by reflection?
# 773 A: The screen of the TV will reflect off the window.
# 775 A: His bedroom window.
# 776 Q: His bedroom window?
# 778 Q: When you made this route around the house after you heard the noises, did you see anything from Mr. Simpson's bedroom to indicate that the television was on?
# 779 MR. BAKER: Objection, no foundation.
# 780 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 782 Q: Okay. And please state again whether or not you saw lights on or off in the bottom part of the house?
# 783 A: I believe they were off.
# 784 Q: Okay. Now, when you walked around the house the first time and you walked past this point here, did you notice whether lights were on or off in this part of the house, the front part that faces the driveway?
# 785 A: I believe it was dark.
# 786 Q: Okay. After you came back from your trip from behind the garage, or your partial trip I should say, you said you saw the limo driver was out there?
# 787 A: I saw the limo was back there.
# 788 Q: Was the car in a different or the same place than when you saw it the first time?
# 790 Q: What did you do?
# 791 A: I went to this gate control box.
# 793 A: And I opened it up, I pressed the button, and the gates opened.
# 794 Q: What gates opened?
# 795 A: The Ashford Street gate. So the limo could get in.
# 796 Q: And what happened?
# 797 A: And the driver drove up. And the dog was here, Chachi, and I waited for Chachi to get across because Chachi started to go in front of the car and went back into the grass area, and the driver came up.
# 798 Q: Now, when you let the limo driver in by pressing that button, as of that time had you had any conversation with him at all?
# 800 Q: Had you even seen him?
# 802 Q: So you did this on your own?
# 804 Q: And why did you do so?
# 805 A: I was wondering why he was out there.
# 806 Q: Had you ever done that before?