Direct examination of Lenore A. Walker

📄 Direct examination of Lenore A. Walker — Thursday, December 5, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\DEC\5\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-LENORE-A.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 26 of 57

◀ Cross-examination of Randall R. Petee Witness scheduling ▶

Witness: Dr. Lenore Walker
Examiner: Peter Gelblum
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Thursday, December 5, 1996 • Utterances: 153

Plaintiffs' counsel read selected portions of the deposition of Dr. Lenore Walker, a domestic violence expert who worked for Simpson's defense in both the criminal and civil cases. The excerpts focused on authenticating her handwritten interview notes from six sessions with Simpson in jail, and notably revealed that tape recordings of some interviews were destroyed after being reviewed. Defense counsel added one counter-excerpt clarifying that Walker's notes captured what was significant, not a complete verbatim record.

# 1 THE COURT:

Proceed.

# 2 MR. GELBLUM:

Next, Your Honor, we're going to read the deposition of Lenore Walker, selected portions of that.

# 3 MR. GELBLUM:

Ms. Molinaro is going to read the answers.

# 4 MR. GELBLUM:

She may have been accidentally omitted from the list. I apologize.

# 5 MR. LEONARD:

Oh.

# 6 MR. BAKER:

I think we have to wait three days, according to rules.

# 7 MR. PETROCELLI:

That only applies to video depositions.

# 8 MR. BAKER:

That only applies to us.

# 9 THE COURT:

Okay.

# 10 MR. LEONARD:

They always want --

# 11 (Selected portions of the deposition of Dr. Lenore E. A. Walker were read by Plaintiffs' Counsel, Mr. Gelblum reading the questions, and Ms. Molinaro reading the answers.)

# 12 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 7, lines 10 to 12.

# 13 (Reading:)

# 14 Q:

Could you state your full name for the record, please.

# 15 A:

Doctor Lenore A. Walker.

# 16 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 8, lines 1 to 4.

# 17 (Reading:)

# 18 Q:

Okay. Have you been retained by Defendant, Orenthal James Simpson or his attorneys, in this case to render one or more opinions?

# 19 A:

Yes, I have.

# 20 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 8 lines 15 to 22.

# 21 Q:

And you, of course, worked on the criminal case, correct?

# 22 A:

Yes, I did.

# 23 Q:

Again, for the defense?

# 24 A:

Yes.

# 25 Q:

When were you first contacted do work in the criminal case?

# 26 A:

In August of 1994.

# 27 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 8, lines -- I'm sorry. Page 9, line 23, to page 10, line 10.

# 28 (Reading:)

# 29 Q:

About how many hours have you worked on this case?

# 30 A:

Maybe somewhere between 30 and 40. I am not sure.

# 31 Q:

And how many hours did you work in the criminal case?

# 32 A:

Many, many more. I don't even have an estimate right now.

I know I spent about 60 hours with Mr. Simpson, himself, and then, I just don't even have an estimate of how many hours of reading materials.

# 33 Q:

More than a hundred?

# 34 A:

Oh, yeah.

# 35 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 11, lines 6 to 10.

# 36 (Reading:)

# 37 Q:

And you personally spent about 60 hours with Mr. Simpson?

# 38 A:

About that.

# 39 Q:

That was all in jail?

# 40 A:

Yes.

# 41 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 172, line 6 --

# 42 MR. LEONARD:

Hold on.

# 43 MR. GELBLUM:

-- to page 174, line 20.

# 44 (Reading:)

# 45 Q:

Dr. Walker, I'm going to show you what we'll mark as exhibit 4.

# 46 MR. GELBLUM:

And, Your Honor, if I may -- these are -- I'm not going to actually hand these to Ms. Molinaro. These exhibits -- these are exhibits that are Dr. Walker's notes that have been turned into trial exhibits, we've been marking. We've shown them to Mr. Leonard already, portions -- the portions that Mr. Petrocelli referred to in his examination of Mr. Simpson, and they are portions of trial exhibits 1994, 8 and 1950.

Just to authenticate them, I'm going to read through this whole passage here.

# 47 (Reading:)

# 48 Q:

Is this a copy of your handwritten notes from interviews -- from interviewing Mr. Simpson?

# 49 A:

And then type edited.

# 50 Q:

And then typed up and edited, the handwritten notes.

Is the date on the first page, January 7, 1995, the date of the interview?

# 51 A:

Yes.

# 52 MR. GELBLUM:

And that's Trial Exhibit 1948, a portion of 1948. That is Exhibit 4.

# 53 (Reading:)

# 54 Q:

Did you write down everything Mr. Simpson said during the interview?

# 55 A:

No. As much as I could.

# 56 Q:

As much as you could?

# 57 A:

Yes.

# 58 Q:

You didn't select out as you were going through?

# 59 A:

No. Sometimes, if something got very emotional, I just couldn't write it down. Or if he got very loud or very fast, I couldn't write it down.

# 60 Q:

But you tried to write down as much as you could?

# 61 A:

Yes.

# 62 Q:

And in your -- and then your transcription in the typed version is that trying to fill in some of the gaps?

# 63 A:

I tried to fill in some of the gaps that I could remember.

# 64 Q:

Were the typewritten notes prepared in relation to when the handwritten notes were made?

# 65 A:

I don't know. It was during the -- still during the pendency of the criminal trial, before it was decided whether I would or would not testify, so I don't know exactly when.

# 66 Q:

Exhibit 5. Is Exhibit 5 a copy of your handwritten and then transcribed notes of your interview of Mr. Simpson on January 8, 1995?

# 67 A:

Yes.

# 68 Q:

Is Exhibit 6 a copy of your handwritten and typed notes of your interview with Mr. Simpson on February 26, 1995?

# 69 A:

Yes.

# 70 Q:

Is Exhibit 7 a copy of your handwritten notes and typed-up notes of your interview with Mr. Simpson on February 25, 1995?

# 71 A:

Yes.

# 72 Q:

Is Exhibit A a copy of your handwritten, and then still --

# 73 A:

Unedited.

# 74 Q:

-- unedited but typed-up version of your notes with your interview with Mr. Simpson on May 7, 1995?

# 75 A:

Yes.

# 76 Q:

And is Exhibit 9 a copy of your handwritten and still unedited typed-up notes of your interview with Mr. Simpson on May 6, 1995?

# 77 A:

Yes.

# 78 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 175, line 18, page 176, line 24.

# 79 (Reading:)

# 80 Q:

Did you tape-record any of these interviews?

# 81 A:

Some of them were tape-recorded when she wasn't present, but they were destroyed when -- once we listened to the tapes together and decided that we were going to -- just talk about what we were -- she did a couple that I didn't do, and I did a couple that she didn't do.

# 82 Q:

That's Dr. Stahly?

# 83 A:

Yes.

# 84 Q:

And why did you destroy the tapes?

# 85 A:

Because we didn't need them anymore. We just did it so that the other person could listen to it.

KEY QUOTE

# 86 Q:

Is that your normal practice when you're working as an expert witness, to destroy tape-recordings of interviews you've done?

# 87 A:

I rarely tape-record. And when I do tape-record, I usually don't keep them.

# 88 Q:

Why is that?

# 89 A:

Because they are usually unnecessary. My notes are usually all I need.

# 90 Q:

Do you check your notes against the tape recordings when you're preparing the typewritten version?

# 91 A:

Sometimes I do. In this case, I didn't.

# 92 Q:

Why not?

# 93 A:

Because I didn't think I needed to.

# 94 Q:

Why not?

# 95 A:

Because my notes seemed, to me, to be pretty complete when we went over and listened to the ones we did.

# 96 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 315, line 13, to 316, line 14.

# 97 (Reading:)

# 98 A:

The closest to what Mr. Simpson said would be in the handwritten notes. So if there's a discrepancy, the handwritten notes are the accurate ones. But even in the handwritten notes, I'm trying to take notes as Mr. Simpson is talking, and sometimes I transcribe a word that would be closest to his.

KEY QUOTE

# 99 Q:

I'm going to see if I can find it really quickly. While I do, let me make sure I understand the notes. All the notes you gave me, that's Exhibits 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 --

# 100 A:

Your numbers don't mean anything to me. I know they do for the record, but I don't have them.

# 101 Q:

Look at Mr. --

# 102 MR. LEONARD:

Leonard.

# 103 Q:

(BY MR. GELBLUM) -- Leonard's 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 --

# 104 A:

Yes.

# 105 Q:

-- my question is, the handwritten portions of those are all in your handwriting?

# 106 A:

That's correct.

# 107 Q:

Those are all your handwritten notes that you made contemporaneously as Mr. Simpson was speaking with you?

# 108 A:

That's correct.

# 109 Q:

You were trying to write down as much as possible what he said?

# 110 A:

That's correct.

# 111 MR. GELBLUM:

Page 317, lines 9 to 19.

# 112 (Reading:)

# 113 Q:

You were doing this as part your job as a consultant for the defense --

# 114 A:

Yes.

# 115 Q:

-- in the criminal case?

# 116 A:

Yes.

# 117 Q:

Now, the typed versions, the typed portions of Exhibits 4 through 9, the intent was to accurately transcribe the handwritten notes; is that correct?

# 118 A:

I suppose accurately was part of the intent, but it was very -- the intent was to transcribe the handwritten notes as accurately as possible.

# 119 MR. GELBLUM:

And finally, page 378, line 20, to page 379, line 12. (Reading:)

# 120 Q:

On page 19, the third entry starts, Kato comes in. Do you see that on page 19?

# 121 A:

Yes.

# 122 Q:

Then the last sentence says, Maybe out of town or a little --

I'm sorry. The last two sentences,

Paula out and about; maybe out of town or a little upset about inviting her.

Do you see that?

# 123 A:

Yes.

# 124 Q:

Would you look at the notes -- meaning the handwritten notes?

It's page 42. I believe it says, Maybe out of town or a little upset about not inviting her.

# 125 A:

That's correct.

# 126 Q:

Meaning Paula was a little upset about not being invited to the recital?

# 127 A:

He didn't know that for sure, but he made -- he thought maybe that was why he hadn't talked with her, or that maybe she would have been. But he didn't know that for sure.

# 128 MR. GELBLUM:

That's all from Dr. Walker's deposition. Would you like --

# 129 MR. LEONARD:

I just now noticed -- I think there's something I'd like to read. We can discuss it very quickly, if I can have a minute.

# 130 MR. PETROCELLI:

Is it within the scope?

# 131 MR. GELBLUM:

Yes.

# 132 MR. LEONARD:

I have one reading.

# 133 (Reading:)

# 134 Q:

Good morning, Dr. Walker.

# 135 A:

Good morning.

# 136 MS. MOLINARO:

Something Mr. Gelblum didn't read?

Excuse me, sir; I need a page and line reference.

# 137 MR. LEONARD:

Page 316, line 15.

# 138 MS. MOLINARO:

Okay.

# 139 (Reading:)

# 140 Q:

Were you just writing down what you considered to be significant?

# 141 A:

Yes. Or what I could get.

I mean, sometimes it wasn't significant, but I would just be writing. I wouldn't even have a chance to think about whether it was significant or not. But sometimes something significant would happen, but I couldn't write a lot because I was attending to the psychological piece of the significance.

# 142 Q:

But you were trying to write down just what you considered to be significant, correct? You didn't always succeed in that, as you just said, but that was your attempt?

# 143 A:

Well, that's not fair, because there are lots of things I wrote down that have no significance whatsoever. So I tried to write down enough so that I would -- so it would jar my memory of what we talked about.

I had no idea when we started out that it was going to be as copious as it was.

# 144 MR. LEONARD:

Thank you.

# 145 MR. GELBLUM:

Your Honor, I'd just like to offer the portions of the notes, as I referred to before.

And what we've done, we've put together the redacted versions of typewritten portions and the corresponding handwritten portions with respect to the notes.

We've given these to defense previously, and I think the marking is next in order, as opposed to 1994 and 1950.

# 146 THE CLERK:

That's fine. Next in order is 2230.

# 147 MR. GELBLUM:

I would offer those.

# 148 MR. LEONARD:

The only -- we have no objection, but we reserve the right in our case to put in portions that we find significant and pertinent.

# 149 MR. GELBLUM:

Sir --

# 150 THE COURT:

Yes?

# 151 MR. LEONARD:

Subject to the Court's ruling.

# 152 THE COURT:

Received.

# 153 (The instrument herein referred to as Portions of deposition of Lenore A. Walker which were read into the record by Plaintiffs' counsel were marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2230, and received in evidence.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Lenore Walker

I know I spent about 60 hours with Mr. Simpson, himself, and then, I just don't even have an estimate of how many hours of reading materials.

Establishes the depth of Walker's access to Simpson — 60+ hours in jail, far more than any other defense expert.

Lenore Walker

Because we didn't need them anymore. We just did it so that the other person could listen to it.

Walker's explanation for destroying tape recordings of Simpson interviews — a damaging admission about spoliation of potential evidence.

Lenore Walker

The closest to what Mr. Simpson said would be in the handwritten notes. So if there's a discrepancy, the handwritten notes are the accurate ones.

Establishes the handwritten notes as the authoritative record, setting up their use as trial exhibits against Simpson.

Lenore Walker

I had no idea when we started out that it was going to be as copious as it was.

Defense counter-excerpt: Walker saying her notes grew beyond what she intended, undermining the framing that she selectively recorded only damaging material.

Evidence (3)

Plaintiffs' 2230

Redacted portions of Walker's handwritten and typewritten interview notes from six sessions with Simpson (Jan 7, Jan 8, Feb 25, Feb 26, May 6, May 7, 1995)

admitted into evidence

Trial Exhibit 1948

Walker's notes from January 7, 1995 interview with Simpson

referenced for authentication

Trial Exhibits 1950 / 1994

Other portions of Walker's interview notes previously referenced by Petrocelli in Simpson's examination

discussed

Notable Exchanges (2)

Peter Gelblum•Robert Baker•Daniel Petrocelli

Brief procedural sparring over the three-day notice rule — Baker claimed it applied to deposition readings, Petrocelli corrected that it only applies to video depositions.

strategic

Dan Leonard•Ms. Molinaro•Peter Gelblum

Defense counsel added a counter-excerpt (page 316, line 15) to rebut the implication that Walker was selectively recording only significant statements. Walker's own words clarified her notes were not purely curated.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Lenore Walker

Walker, when the examiner references exhibits by number: 'Your numbers don't mean anything to me. I know they do for the record, but I don't have them.'

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Lenore Walker

evidence destruction / spoliation

Gelblum elicited that Walker destroyed tape recordings of Simpson interviews, claiming they were unnecessary — undermining the completeness and integrity of her documentation.

⚔ Lenore Walker

note-taking gaps

Walker acknowledged she did not write down everything Simpson said — 'sometimes if something got very emotional, I just couldn't write it down' — raising questions about what was omitted from the record used as trial exhibits.

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 8498 • 153 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103