Redirect examination of Philip Vannatter

📄 Redirect examination of Philip Vannatter — Tuesday, December 10, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\DEC\10\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 29 of 57

◀ Redirect examination of Philip Vannatter (part 2) Re-redirect examination of Philip Vannatter ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: John Kelly
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 • Utterances: 90

Baker used redirect to hammer Vannatter on two chain-of-custody failures: (1) he never sealed the evidence envelope containing Simpson's reference blood, leaving it unsealed in his possession for roughly three hours, and (2) he did not properly examine the shrubbery around the Rockingham glove for signs of disturbance. Vannatter acknowledged both failures, though he offered justifications for each.

# 1 MR. KELLY:

I have no further questions.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER:

# 2 Q:

Let me show you -- I'll show you next in order.

# 3 THE CLERK:

2251.

# 4 (The instrument herein described as an analyzed evidence envelope was marked for identification as Defendants' Exhibit No. 2251.)

# 5 MR. BAKER:

2251.

# 6 Q:

Mr. Vannatter, that is an analyzed evidence envelope like the one that you say you got from your desk and put into -- put the vial that you got from Thano Peratis in, correct?

# 7 MR. KELLY:

Objection, beyond the scope.

# 8 MR. BAKER:

He went into the blood vial on the tape.

# 9 MR. KELLY:

Just asked an observation on the video that Mr. Baker had played portions of yesterday, Your Honor. I didn't go into the content or the writings.

# 10 THE COURT:

You did point out the envelope.

Overruled.

# 11 MR. KELLY:

Okay.

# 12 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) That's like the one that you say that you had gotten from your desk in -- or from -- or handed to Thano Peratis and had him sign it, right?

# 13 A:

Yes.

# 14 Q:

And --

# 15 A:

Yes.

# 16 Q:

And the instructions on that analyzed evidence envelope are of -- that that is supposed to be sealed, right, as soon as the blood vial is placed in it?

# 17 MR. BAKER:

Can I have my picture back.

# 18 (Mr. Petrocelli hands photo to Mr. Baker.)

# 19 MR. BAKER:

Thank you.

# 20 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) See where it says under the officer requesting withdrawal?

# 21 A:

Yes.

# 22 Q:

Okay.

It's supposed to be sealed, is it not?

# 23 A:

It says when the affidavit is completed, sign below as a witnessing officer and seal the envelope, yes.

# 24 Q:

And was, in fact, the envelope with the -- strike that.

I take it that you followed these instructions, and once there was an affidavit of the person withdrawing blood, you sealed that envelope, right? Very important, isn't it?

# 25 A:

No, I didn't seal the envelope and the reason I didn't was Mr. Fung was going to book the evidence, and he needed to see what he was going to book. I couldn't seal it and ask him to book it without seeing what was in it.

# 26 Q:

You testified in this courtroom last month that you in fact sealed the envelope, did you, sir?

# 27 A:

No, sir. No, sir. I never sealed this envelope. The other envelopes I got were sealed.

KEY QUOTE

# 28 Q:

So let me see if I've got this straight.

Play the video.

# 29 (Videotape played at 171659.)

# 30 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Do you agree that that envelope in your left hand is not sealed, correct?

# 31 (Referring to videotape.)

# 32 A:

I don't recall sealing the envelope, and the reason I don't was it was not -- it could not have been booked at that point.

# 33 (Videotape stops playing at 17:19.)

# 34 Q:

Detective Vannatter, you agree that that envelope you had in your left hand just shown in the videotape was not sealed, true?

# 35 A:

I believe it was not sealed, yes.

# 36 Q:

And so --

# 37 MR. BAKER:

Put this on the Elmo.

MR. P. BAKER: This is 225 (sic).

# 38 MR. BAKER:

I think it's 17.

Okay. Sorry.

# 39 (The instrument herein described as a photograph of the actual analyzed evidence envelope was marked for identification as Defendants' Exhibit No. 2252)

# 40 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) This is a photograph of the envelope that was actually used, is it not, can you see it?

# 41 A:

I would guess it is.

# 42 Q:

Okay.

# 43 MR. BAKER:

Now, Phil, take it down to the bottom, please.

# 44 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, Thano Peratis signed, under penalty of perjury, that he drew the blood on 6/13 at 2:30, and apparently executed the declaration that says 5/19/94. That has to be an error, correct?

# 45 A:

Yeah.

# 46 Q:

He obviously didn't withdraw the blood a month before?

# 47 A:

The murder hadn't occurred yet. That's obviously an error.

KEY QUOTE

# 48 Q:

Now -- Now, Mr. Vannatter, there is a set procedure after blood is drawn from an individual relative to sealing the envelope, relative to initialing the envelope, every time the seal is broken, and dating and time go on the back of the envelope to ensure that there is a chain of custody, correct?

# 49 MR. KELLY:

Objection, beyond the scope, Your Honor, irrelevant what the procedure is.

# 50 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 51 A:

The policy on it is you book it as soon as practical. Once it's booked, then every time it's reopened, it's initialed, yes.

# 52 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Detective Vannatter, if this is such an important piece of evidence that you drove an hour and 20 minutes, because chain of custody was important, you sure wanted to have that envelope sealed with the blood in it, so that the chain of custody was protected if you weren't going to take any blood out of that vial, true?

# 53 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative, Your Honor.

# 54 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 55 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) The rules require you to seal the envelope and you didn't do it; isn't that correct, sir?

# 56 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative, beyond the scope, irrelevant.

# 57 THE COURT:

Just a minute.

MR. P. BAKER: Next in order.

# 58 THE COURT:

This is 225 --

MR. P. BAKER: I think --

# 59 THE CLERK:

What's up on the screen?

MR. P. BAKER: The blood vial envelope, next in order. Didn't I say that, Judge?

THE COURT REPORTER: What is the number then?

# 60 THE COURT:

I don't know. We'll find out in a minute.

# 61 THE CLERK:

The evidence envelope 2251.

# 62 THE COURT:

That makes that 52.

# 63 THE CLERK:

2252.

# 64 THE COURT:

Okay.

Read me the question.

# 65 (Reading:)

# 66 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) The rules

require you to seal the envelope and you

didn't do it; isn't that correct, sir?

# 67 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 68 A:

I testified I didn't seal the envelope.

# 69 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) And under the instructions, number 4, it was after the affidavit was completed around 4:30 (sic), long before 5:15, before you took the vial and it'd been in your automobile, correct?

# 70 A:

Yes.

# 71 Q:

Sign below as witnessing officer and seal the vial in this envelope using completed sealed evidence labels. None of that complied with it, true?

# 72 A:

That's true.

# 73 Q:

So the envelope with Mr. Simpson's blood in it was in your possession from 2:30 to 5:16, or 5:19, or whenever it was unsealed with only you in possession of that vial of Mr. Simpson's reference blood, correct?

# 74 A:

That's correct.

It was part of my job, Mr. Baker.

# 75 Q:

Yeah. And part of your job was to follow the instructions; to A, book evidence immediately, B, seal the envelope, none of which you did. That was part of your job too, wasn't it?

# 76 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative, compound.

# 77 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 78 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, one other thing, when you as a detective on this particular case went back to the southside of Mr. Simpson's house, looked at the glove, you were four feet away, what -- from about me to you, four feet away, you looked at the glove, you looked down at the shrubbery, and you found absolutely not one bit of evidence that anyone came over the fence and disturbed any shrubbery whatsoever, correct?

# 79 MR. PETROCELLI:

Lack of foundation given that he was unable to see down the entire length of the fence, as Mr. Baker pointed out.

# 80 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 81 A:

I was not really looking to see if anybody came over the fence. I didn't see any evidence of anybody coming over the fence.

KEY QUOTE

# 82 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Mr. Vannatter, you're a detective of 23 years. You find a piece of evidence, you've just been to Bundy where there's a glove underneath a fence within 3 feet of two bodies, and you are informed by Detective Fuhrman that there is a glove there, and there is a hedge going over on the right side as you view the glove, there is no blood trail, there is not one drop of blood around any leaf on the ground, and you're telling this jury --

# 83 MR. PETROCELLI:

Your Honor, this is closing argument.

# 84 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 85 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) You had an obligation to look, didn't you?

# 86 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative.

# 87 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 88 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) As a detective, are you telling this jury you didn't look to see whether or not there was an area or destruction of broken branches or anything; is that what you're telling me?

# 89 A:

I'm telling you I didn't observe any evidence of anything coming over the fence.

# 90 MR. BAKER:

Thank you, sir. Nothing further.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY:

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Phillip Vannatter

I never sealed this envelope. The other envelopes I got were sealed.

Direct admission that the envelope containing Simpson's blood was never sealed, contradicting what Baker implied Vannatter had said earlier in the trial.

Phillip Vannatter

The murder hadn't occurred yet. That's obviously an error.

Confirming that Peratis's affidavit was dated 5/19/94 — a month before the murders — an error in the chain-of-custody paperwork for Simpson's blood draw.

Phillip Vannatter

That's correct. It was part of my job, Mr. Baker.

Vannatter conceding that the unsealed vial was in his sole possession from roughly 2:30 to 5:16–5:19, then adding a defiant but double-edged qualifier.

Phillip Vannatter

I was not really looking to see if anybody came over the fence. I didn't see any evidence of anybody coming over the fence.

Admission that, as a 23-year detective standing four feet from the glove, he was not actively investigating whether the glove had been planted by someone coming over the fence.

Evidence (4)

Defendants' 2251

Blank analyzed evidence envelope of the type used to contain blood vials — introduced as a sample to show the sealing instructions printed on it

introduced, read aloud

Defendants' 2252

Photograph of the actual analyzed evidence envelope used for Simpson's blood, showing Peratis's signature and the erroneous date of 5/19/94

introduced, discussed

Informal

Videotape (timecode 17:16:59–17:19) showing Vannatter holding the unsealed envelope

played, used to confront Vannatter

Informal

The Rockingham glove and surrounding shrubbery area on the south side of Simpson's house

discussed

Notable Exchanges (3)

Robert Baker•Phillip Vannatter

Baker methodically walked through the printed instructions on the evidence envelope — seal immediately, initial every reopening, date and time on back — then got Vannatter to confirm he followed none of them, leaving Simpson's blood in his sole possession for nearly three hours unsealed.

strategic

Robert Baker•Phillip Vannatter

Baker confronted Vannatter with the Peratis affidavit date error (5/19/94 instead of 6/13/94), which Vannatter confirmed was obviously wrong because 'the murder hadn't occurred yet.' The casual confirmation highlighted sloppiness in the blood-draw paperwork.

revealing

Robert Baker•Phillip Vannatter•Daniel Petrocelli

Baker's extended question about the glove — no blood trail, no broken branches, a 23-year detective standing four feet away — was cut off by Petrocelli as 'closing argument' (sustained), but Vannatter's answer still conceded he wasn't actively looking for fence-crossing evidence.

heated

Light Moments (1)

Hiroshi Fujisaki

Mid-examination procedural confusion over exhibit numbers: Baker, the clerk, and Judge Fujisaki all talked over each other trying to sort out whether the photo was 2251 or 2252, with Fujisaki finally saying 'I don't know. We'll find out in a minute.'

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Phillip Vannatter

prior inconsistent statement + documentary impeachment

Baker implied Vannatter had previously testified he sealed the envelope; Vannatter denied ever saying that, but was then confronted with videotape and the envelope's own printed instructions to establish he violated procedure regardless.

⚔ Thano Peratis

documentary error

The affidavit Peratis signed under penalty of perjury bore the date 5/19/94 — a month before the murders — which Vannatter confirmed was an error, casting doubt on the care taken with the blood-draw paperwork.

Objections

8 objections (4 sustained, 4 overruled)

Proceeding 8572 • 90 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103