Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Daniel Petrocelli

📄 Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by Daniel Petrocelli — Friday, April 26, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\DEPOSITION\1996\APR\26\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ALLEN-CO.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 25 of 31

◀ Direct examination of Allen Cowlings by John Kelly Direct examination of Denise Brown by John Kelly ▶

Witness: Allen Cowlings
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Friday, April 26, 1996 • Utterances: 442

Petrocelli opens by confronting Cowlings with the contradiction between his lawyer's press statements — that Cowlings wanted to tell his complete story — and his blanket Fifth Amendment assertions, establishing that any willingness to testify was contingent on immunity Cowlings never sought. The remainder of the examination covers Cowlings' employment history, his New York trip the week before the murders (where he stayed with Bobby Bender and took a car-phone call from OJ Simpson), his limited knowledge of OJ's relationship with Paula Barbieri, and his financial dealings with Simpson — with privilege invoked only for questions tied directly to the murder week.

# 1

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 2 Q:

Mr. Cowlings, my name is Daniel Petrocelli. I represent Fredric Goldman. You have asserted the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination a number of times throughout this deposition. I would like to ask you some questions about that.

Were you aware that your lawyer, Mr. Re, made comments to the press to the effect that you wanted to talk, you wanted to tell your story? Are you aware of that?

# 3 MR. RE:

Are you asking if he's aware whether

# 4 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 5 MR. RE:

I made comments?

# 6 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yes.

# 7 Q:

Are you aware that your lawyer made comments on your behalf that you wanted to testify fully and completely and wanted to tell the complete story that you have?

# 8 MR. RE:

You talking about with the grant of immunity?

KEY QUOTE

# 9

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 10 Q:

Are you aware of that?

# 11 A:

With the grant of immunity?

KEY QUOTE

# 12 Q:

Whatever. That you wanted to be able to tell your story. Yeah, if you had immunity, you would talk.

# 13 A:

Yes.

# 14 Q:

Okay. And is that true?

# 15 A:

Yes.

# 16 Q:

Okay. What have you done to get immunity?

# 17 MR. RE:

Well, wait a second. He has no obligation to get immunity, he cannot get immunity, and under Kauffman and Daly you are the one who can get him immunity. So there is nothing that he can do in any event.

# 18

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 19 Q:

Well, the question is: Have you done anything, have you taken any effort, made any effort to obtain permission from the D.A.'s office or go to court, seek relief, or do anything to enable you to come here in this case and give full and complete testimony?

# 20 MR. LEONARD:

Object

# 21 MR. RE:

There is no procedure for him to do that. That's an improper question. I direct him not to answer it.

# 22

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 23 Q:

Have you instructed your lawyer to take such actions on your behalf?

# 24 MR. RE:

He is not a lawyer. He can't instruct me what to do under the law. It's an improper question. There is nothing that can be done in that regard, and it's totally improper. I direct him.

# 25

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 26 Q:

Have you had any discussions with anybody about whether or not you would testify fully and completely in this deposition in this lawsuit, other than counsel?

# 27 A:

No. Just with my counsel.

# 28 Q:

Okay. You understand that the Fifth Amendment is a right that belongs to you and not to your lawyer. Right?

# 29 A:

Yes.

# 30 Q:

And it's your choice whether or not to exercise it. You understand that. Right?

# 31 A:

Yes.

# 32 Q:

And you can choose not to exercise it and testify fully and answer all the questions. Right?

# 33 A:

Yes.

# 34 Q:

And you have chosen not to do so. Right?

# 35 A:

Under the advice of my attorney.

# 36 Q:

Do you believe you have something to hide?

# 37 MR. RE:

That's an improper question.

# 38 MR. LEONARD:

And I object.

# 39 MR. RE:

It's completely improper. I direct him not to answer that kind of question.

# 40

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 41 Q:

Do you have something to hide, sir?

KEY QUOTE

# 42 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation

# 43 MR. RE:

Again, that's a totally improper question. Anyone who implies

# 44 MR. LEONARD:

Argumentative.

# 45 MR. RE:

Anyone who implies that there is something wrong with asserting the Fifth Amendment is doing it for grandstanding and grandstanding only, because there is nothing wrong with that.

KEY QUOTE

# 46 MR. PETROCELLI:

Are you directing him not to answer?

# 47 MR. RE:

Yes.

# 48 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

# 49 Q:

Where do you work, Mr. Cowlings?

# 50 A:

I work for Jonathan Martin Dress Company.

# 51 Q:

What exactly do you do there?

# 52 A:

Production and sales.

# 53 Q:

And how long have you been there?

# 54 A:

Over five years now, I would think.

# 55 Q:

Have you been working there full time for the last five years?

# 56 A:

Yes.

# 57 Q:

And normally you work what, 40 hours a week?

# 58 A:

Give or take more.

# 59 Q:

Okay. And have you taken any significant breaks from your employment in the last five years since you've been there?

# 60 A:

Just in the last two years with this unfortunate situation. He's been more than people I work for have been very supportive.

# 61 Q:

You've been able to take time off?

# 62 A:

Yeah.

# 63 Q:

And you've been compensated anyway, even though you've taken the time off?

# 64 A:

I get paid. Yes, I get my regular salary.

# 65 Q:

There hasn't been any reduction in your compensation. Is that right?

# 66 A:

No.

# 67 Q:

And you said you're in production?

# 68 A:

Yes.

# 69 Q:

And this is what? What kind of business is this?

# 70 A:

Dress manufacturer. We make women's dresses, and I work at the factory.

# 71 Q:

And they sell the dresses to retailers and wholesalers?

# 72 A:

Retailers, yes. Retailers.

# 73 Q:

And your job is in the production side of this?

# 74 A:

Some production, some sales.

# 75 Q:

You travel quite a bit?

# 76 A:

Yeah, I do travel. I work very closely with the owner of the company.

# 77 Q:

You travel to New York at all?

# 78 A:

New York, yes.

# 79 Q:

Okay. And you travel to Brooklyn at all?

# 80 A:

No.

# 81 Q:

Okay. Do you know a woman by the name of (name deleted)?

# 82 A:

Yes.

# 83 Q:

And who is (name deleted)?

# 84 A:

[She's] a friend of mine.

# 85 Q:

And where does she live?

# 86 A:

She lives in Brooklyn.

# 87 Q:

Okay. Are you in contact with her?

# 88 A:

We talk. We've known each other. We talk off and on. Not all the time, but every once in a while.

# 89 Q:

Okay. When is the last time you spoke to her?

# 90 A:

Actually, she called me last week.

# 91 Q:

How often do you talk to her?

# 92 A:

She's an entertainer, she's on the road a lot, and she was on tour with the Rolling Stones for a couple years, I guess, this last tour they had.

# 93 Q:

In 1994 did you talk to her at all?

# 94 A:

I could have. I don't remember.

# 95 Q:

What about in June of 1994?

# 96 A:

I could have. And most of the time when I go to New York, I may call her to see if she's in town or something. I don't know if I did or not.

# 97 Q:

Do you recall speaking with her at any time in the middle of June of 1994?

# 98 A:

She called after all this had happened to wish me, you know, good will.

# 99 Q:

She called during the week of June 13th?

# 100 A:

I don't know if it was no, I don't know when it was. I had a lot of phone calls, and I was returning phone calls to the people that I knew.

# 101 Q:

Who else did you talk to in New York City that week?

# 102 MR. RE:

Wait a second. Which week are you talking about?

# 103 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Which week?

# 104 MR. PETROCELLI:

June 13th.

# 105 MR. RE:

Assert the privilege.

# 106 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I wasn't in New York.

# 107 MR. RE:

No, no. He said, "Who else did you talk to in New York..." I am asking you to assert a privilege to it.

# 108 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Oh, privilege.

# 109

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 110 Q:

Do you know Bobby Bender?

# 111 A:

Yes, I do.

# 112 Q:

Is he a good friend of yours?

# 113 A:

Yes.

# 114 Q:

And he lives in Long Island?

# 115 A:

Yes.

# 116 Q:

Did you talk to him that week?

# 117 MR. RE:

Same thing. Assert the privilege.

# 118 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Privilege.

# 119

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 120 Q:

Okay. Have you been in contact with him since June 17, 1994

# 121 A:

Yes.

# 122 Q:

On a regular basis?

# 123 A:

Yes.

# 124 Q:

Okay. And you've spoken to him about Mr. Simpson's case, haven't you?

# 125 A:

We have spoken about the situation.

# 126 Q:

And you spoke to Mr. Bender about the fact that Mr. Simpson stayed with him a couple days before the murder. Right?

# 127 A:

I don't know for sure. I know I stayed here when I was there that week.

# 128 Q:

When you were in New York the week that I guess it would be June 5

# 129 A:

Uh-huh.

# 130 Q:

or June let me see yeah, the week of June 5, June 5 being a Sunday, you were there what days that week in New York?

# 131 A:

I was there the week before I was there before that before the weekend all that happened, I was in New York. I came in the week yeah, I guess.

# 132 Q:

The murders occurred on June 12th

# 133 A:

12th.

# 134 Q:

on a Sunday.

# 135 A:

I came in I think on like on a Thursday or a Friday. Yeah, I guess that date that you earlier

# 136 Q:

June 9 or June 10 is when you came back from Long Island, New York?

# 137 A:

Yeah, I came back on a Wednesday.

# 138 Q:

Wednesday? So that would be June 8?

# 139 A:

Yeah, I think so.

# 140 Q:

And when did you go to New York that week?

# 141 A:

The week I think I came in like the following week. Could have been a Wednesday or a Thursday.

# 142 Q:

And the entire time you were there you stayed with Bobby Bender?

# 143 A:

Yes.

# 144 Q:

Okay. And, now, you said you had a telephone call with Mr. Simpson I believe on Tuesday when you were in New York and he was in Los Angeles. Is that right?

# 145 A:

Yes, I think no. The phone call no, I take that back. The phone call came into Bob Bender's house, and Bobby and I were there. O.J.

# 146 Q:

I see.

# 147 A:

O.J. had called from his carphone.

# 148 Q:

And called Bender and you at Bender's house?

# 149 A:

Right.

# 150 Q:

Okay. And then you told Mr. Simpson you were going back to L A., and he was coming out to Bender's, actually. Right?

# 151 A:

Yes, he was coming in to New York. I didn't know if he was going to stay there. He was coming into New York.

# 152 Q:

Okay. Now, you've spoken to Bender about Simpson's stay with him those couple of days that week, didn't you?

# 153 A:

No, I don't remember talking to him about it.

# 154 Q:

Isn't it true that Mr. Bender described to you what O.J. Simpson was like during those couple of days at his house?

# 155 A:

I don't remember.

# 156 Q:

You don't have any recollection of that

# 157 A:

No.

# 158 Q:

of ever having spoken with Mr. Bender about Mr. Simpson's behavior and his demeanor during those few days?

# 159 A:

No.

# 160 Q:

Okay. Did you have any conversation with Paula Barbieri in the month of June prior to June 12th?

# 161 A:

No.

# 162 Q:

None at all?

# 163 A:

There was one I stopped by O.J.'s one night to get a ball autographed, and Paula was there, Paula, Arnelle, O.J. When that happened, I don't know. It would have been before June.

# 164 Q:

Before you took your trip to Bender's in June?

# 165 A:

Yes.

# 166 Q:

And was it your understanding when you saw Mr. Simpson there with Paula Barbieri that he had resumed his relationship with her?

# 167 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation. Calls for speculation.

# 168 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I really don't know.

# 169

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 170 Q:

Did you know anything about his relationship with Paula at that time?

# 171 A:

I know they had been seeing each other.

# 172 Q:

When was the first time you saw or learned that he had been seeing her again?

# 173 A:

I never thought too much of it, to be honest with you.

# 174 Q:

In fact you never understood that he ever broke up with her. Right?

# 175 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 176 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I really don't know, sir. It's

# 177

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 178 Q:

In other words, from the first time he met Paula Barbieri and started to date her, you never understood that he broke up with her for an extended period of time. True?

# 179 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 180 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I don't know. I wasn't around them.

# 181

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 182 Q:

And you never became aware of a time in his relationship with Miss Barbieri where he stopped seeing her for an extended period of time. True?

# 183 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation.

# 184 ALLEN COWLINGS:

I have no knowledge of that.

# 185

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 186 Q:

Well, that's what I'm saying. You don't have any knowledge that he ever stopped seeing her for a lengthy period of time. Correct?

# 187 A:

I don't know. I don't know. I couldn't answer that. I wasn't around a lot, so I couldn't tell you what status the y were.

# 188 Q:

Well, you know he was seeing Miss Barbieri during his divorce with Nicole, right, back in 1992 when he first met her?

# 189 A:

Yeah, he was seeing they were dating.

# 190 Q:

Right. And did there ever come a time to your knowledge when they stopped dating?

# 191 A:

I really don't know. I really don't.

# 192 Q:

Did there come a time when you didn't see Paula Barbieri for an extended period of time?

# 193 A:

I wasn't around there a lot.

# 194 Q:

Okay. How many times have you seen her total in your life before the murders?

# 195 A:

Before the murders? I could probably count it on one hand.

# 196 Q:

Just about four or five times?

# 197 A:

If that much. I really didn't see a lot of Paula and O.J. because I wasn't coming around that much.

# 198 Q:

Okay. So let me make sure we're clear on this. As you sit here today, prior to the murders I am only referring to prior to the murders on June 12 you have no knowledge or information about the status of his relationship with Paula Barbieri, when it was on, when it was off, and so forth?

# 199 A:

No. No, I don't.

# 200 Q:

Is that correct?

# 201 A:

That's correct.

# 202 Q:

Okay. Do you have any financial involvement with Mr. Simpson?

# 203 MR. LEONARD:

Objection. Vague.

# 204 ALLEN COWLINGS:

No.

# 205

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 206 A:

No.

# 207 Q:

Do you receive any money from him?

# 208 A:

No.

# 209 Q:

Are the two of you invested in any common businesses or enterprises?

# 210 A:

There was a

# 211 MR. LEONARD:

Presently?

# 212 MR.PETROCELLI:

Yeah.

# 213 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Well, not presently, no.

# 214

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 215 Q:

When was the last time?

# 216 A:

He had called me that's when he was involved with Swiss Army knives and he said he he put my name down as something pertaining to a deal that he was involved in. And he said he couldn't go into details at this point in time, but, you know, he let me know that he was thinking of me, and once it was finalized or everything was put in it's proper place, he would be able to explain to me a little more detail what it was about.

# 217 Q:

When did that occur?

# 218 A:

Whenever he was putting together the deal with Swiss Army.

# 219 Q:

Is that before Nicole's murder?

# 220 A:

Yes, way before.

# 221 Q:

Long before?

# 222 A:

I don't know how long before.

# 223 Q:

Did that deal ever eventuate?

# 224 A:

Not that I know of. I never heard any more about it.

# 225 Q:

So within five years prior to Nicole's death, did you have any common business investments with Mr. Simpson?

# 226 A:

No.

# 227 Q:

Did you receive any money from him other than a free plane ticket or

# 228 A:

No.

# 229 Q:

accommodation here or there?

# 230 A:

No.

# 231 Q:

Okay. You supported yourself entirely

# 232 A:

Yes.

# 233 Q:

from your own earnings?

# 234 A:

Yes.

# 235 Q:

And, now, did you say you had some kind of interest in Public Storage?

# 236 A:

Well, that was years ago. That was when Public Storage first started.

# 237 Q:

And you've sold that interest?

# 238 A:

Yes, long ago.

# 239 Q:

Okay. And you have no financial interest in that company anymore?

# 240 A:

No.

# 241 Q:

Or in Louis Marx's company either, Forschner?

# 242 A:

No.

# 243 Q:

Okay. Has O.J. Simpson transferred any financial investments or instruments to you in the last two or three years?

# 244 A:

No.

# 245 Q:

Okay. Do you know whether he has transferred any financial investments or instruments to anyone?

# 246 MR.LEONARD:

Objection. Lack of foundation. Calling for speculation.

# 247

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 248 Q:

Do you know? That's all I'm asking.

# 249 A:

I don't know. I have no knowledge of that.

# 250 Q:

Okay. Do you have any photographs of O.J. Simpson taken, let's say, within five years before Nicole's death in your possession?

# 251 A:

I have one.

# 252 Q:

Just one?

# 253 A:

Yes. I know for sure I have one.

# 254 Q:

And where is that? At your house?

# 255 A:

Yes.

# 256 Q:

And who is in that photograph?

# 257 A:

O.J. and I.

# 258 Q:

And when was that taken?

# 259 A:

It was taken at a football game.

# 260 Q:

When was that?

# 261 A:

It was a playoff game.

# 262 Q:

Years ago?

# 263 A:

Few years ago. It was the Raiders were playing Denver in the playoffs.

# 264 Q:

Okay. That's the only photograph you have?

# 265 A:

That I know for sure because I still see it. I mean, I have it up.

# 266 Q:

Okay. Do you have any other pictures of Mr. Simpson taken within five years before Nicole's death?

# 267 A:

No.

# 268 Q:

Do you have any notes or letters from him?

# 269 A:

No.

# 270 Q:

Do you have any notes or letters from Nicole?

# 271 A:

No.

# 272 Q:

Have you given anybody since Nicole's death copies or originals of any photographs?

# 273 A:

No.

# 274 Q:

Or notes or letters?

# 275 A:

No.

# 276 Q:

Or documents of any kind?

# 277 A:

No.

# 278 Q:

Okay. Is this deposition the first time you've ever been examined under oath concerning the circumstances of Nicole and Ron Goldman's death?

# 279 A:

Yes.

# 280 Q:

Okay. Has anybody other than Mr. Re ever questioned you about these events?

# 281 A:

I was questioned by two officers the night that I was arrested.

# 282 Q:

And other than that incident?

# 283 MR. RE:

You mean questions he has answered, not people have questioned the press have questioned him repeatedly.

# 284 MR.PETROCELLI:

Not the press. I am talking about people in their official capacity.

# 285 ALLEN COWLINGS:

Well, Don and Vannatter and Lange

# 286

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 287 Q:

Okay. And that's it?

# 288 A:

Yes.

# 289 Q:

Okay. Have you ever been videotaped in answering questions, practiced, rehearsing, anything like that?

# 290 A:

No.

# 291 Q:

Okay. Do you have what is your educational background? Did you graduate from USC?

# 292 A:

No.

# 293 Q:

Did you ever get a degree?

# 294 A:

No.

# 295 Q:

Have you ever been convicted of a crime?

# 296 A:

No.

# 297 Q:

Have you ever been of any crime, felony, misdemeanor, anything?

# 298 A:

Traffic violations.

# 299 Q:

Prior to working at your current employer, what did you do for a living?

# 300 A:

Some film work. I worked as a T.A. on a number of commercials, worked on two features as a technical adviser on anything related to football.

# 301 Q:

You retired when?

# 302 A:

In '79

Q : So from 1979 till your present job, you worked in television?

# 303 A:

I was involved in advertising; I was involved in a restaurant, worked for Public Storage; done commercial work, film work.

# 304 Q:

What did you do for Public Storage?

# 305 A:

I ran their I came in as a district manager, and then I got appointed to head up start up a maintenance program in maintaining the projects in the Los Angeles County area.

# 306 Q:

And how long did you do that for?

# 307 A:

I got involved with a restaurant. I started it up, and then the restaurant opportunity came. I was made partners of a restaurant over in Hollywood called Fellini's, and then so I left Public Storage.

# 308 Q:

You were working full time at Public Storage?

# 309 A:

Yes.

# 310 Q:

And what time period was this?

# 311 A:

I was there two or three years, I think.

# 312 Q:

Then you went to Fellini's?

# 313 A:

Fellini's, yes.

# 314 Q:

Who was your partner?

# 315 A:

A guy by the name of Fred Levinson, who was the commercial director who I been knowing for a long time.

# 316 Q:

And he worked with O.J. Simpson. Right?

# 317 A:

Yes. Yes, he did.

# 318 Q:

On the Hertz commercials?

# 319 A:

I think so. I think so.

# 320 Q:

And then how long were you involved with Fellini's?

# 321 A:

Not too long. I had a problem with two of the other gentlemen that he had made partners.

# 322 Q:

Who were they?

# 323 A:

One was I don't know one was they were brothers, and one was named Alan and I forgot the other one's name. So we didn't see eye to eye, so I left.

# 324 Q:

What years did you operate Fellini's?

# 325 A:

I was only there for about three months, three or four months.

# 326 Q:

And what year was that?

# 327 A:

I wouldn't know.

# 328 Q:

In the '80s?

# 329 A:

That was in yeah, probably in the late '80s, I think.

# 330 Q:

And after Fellini's, what did you do professionally?

# 331 A:

What did I do. I think I did commercial work. I did a trying to think, figure out when would this fall in. I was the Kool man, Kool cigarettes print ad, black model for Kool for two years. They had a cigarette campaign. I did billboards, print ads, and I did that for about two years, off and on.

# 332 Q:

After Fellini's?

# 333 A:

I don't know where it falls in there. Could have been, or it could have been before. I really couldn't tell you.

# 334 Q:

And after what did you do right before your current job?

# 335 A:

Couldn't tell you. Probably did I couldn't tell you.

# 336 Q:

You don't remember?

# 337 A:

No, I don't remember.

# 338 Q:

Okay. What is your wife's name?

# 339 A:

Marion.

# 340 Q:

Marion?

# 341 A:

Marion.

# 342 Q:

Does she live with you?

# 343 A:

No.

# 344 Q:

Where does she reside?

# 345 A:

She lives on [address deleted].

# 346 Q:

Do you know the address? A: I have it written down.

# 347 Q:

When did you get married?

# 348 A:

It was July or was it November. It's been a couple years. I couldn't give you the exact date.

# 349 Q:

What year was it?

# 350 A:

Probably would have been '93. '93?

# 351 Q:

Did you have a best man?

# 352 A:

No, uh-uh. We went to Vegas and got married.

# 353 Q:

Okay. Does Mr. Simpson know Marion?

# 354 A:

Yes.

# 355 Q:

How long did they know each other?

# 356 A:

Her and I went together for about a year almost. He met her, been out with her. Nicole, too.

# 357 Q:

Did Nicole ever meet

# 358 A:

Yes.

# 359 Q:

Marion?

# 360 A:

I'm sorry. Yes.

# 361 Q:

And you went out as couples?

# 362 A:

Yes.

# 363 Q:

Okay. How many times did you think that Nicole and Marion had come into contact with each other?

# 364 A:

Went by the house once, went to dinner with O.J. and Nicole and two other couples. Could have been two or three times.

# 365 Q:

Did you and Marion separate before or after Nicole's death?

# 366 A:

We just thought that it would have been best because I wanted to keep her out of all this craziness, so I just tried to keep some sanity, you know, with us. It was just before it happened we kinda like we were having some problems. Then after it happened I just told her, you know, just, you know, be best that we just, you know, try to maintain some privacy.

# 367 Q:

Did she move out of the home you were living in, or did you move out of the home?

# 368 A:

I moved out.

# 369 Q:

Okay. Did you move out of that home before or after Nicole's death?

# 370 A:

Before.

# 371 Q:

How long before?

# 372 A:

I don't know.

# 373 Q:

Days? Weeks? Months?

# 374 A:

No, it was sometime before. I don't know when, but I did.

# 375 Q:

Okay. And what was the address where you were living in June on June 12, 1994?

# 376 A:

It was on Centinela.

# 377 Q:

On June 12 of 1994?

# 378 A:

Oh, June 12th?

# 379 Q:

Yeah.

# 380 A:

I was up in the Palisades.

# 381 Q:

And Marion and you were living on Centinela?

# 382 A:

Before then, yes.

# 383 Q:

You moved out and moved to the Palisades?

# 384 A:

Yes. I still had my apartment in Santa Monica.

# 385 Q:

Where does the Santa Monica apartment fit in? I'm a little confused. Centinela?

# 386 A:

No. On San Vicente.

# 387 Q:

Okay. Let me get this straight. You still had a place on San Vicente in Santa Monica while you were living with your wife

# 388 A:

Yes.

# 389 Q:

on Centinela? Is that what you re saying?

# 390 A:

No. Her and I lived on Centinela, but I still had my apartment on San Vicente, 7th and San Vicente.

# 391 Q:

And it was vacant?

# 392 A:

Yeah, there was nobody there.

# 393 Q:

And then you moved into it?

# 394 A:

When her and I split up, I went back. Then when the earthquake hit and damaged my apartment, I moved up to the Palisades.

# 395 Q:

Okay. And that's where you were living on June 12, 1994?

# 396 A:

Yes.

# 397 Q:

Are you still living there?

# 398 A:

No.

# 399 Q:

And when did you leave that apartment?

# 400 A:

Sometime after all the craziness happened. Could have been a few months afterwards.

# 401 Q:

What was the address of that apartment?

# 402 A:

Which one?

# 403 Q:

The one on June 12, 1994, the one where you were living

# 404 A:

Up in the Palisades?

# 405 Q:

on June 12th. Yeah.

# 406 A:

It was a house.

# 407 Q:

Did you own the house?

# 408 A:

No.

# 409 Q:

Did you rent it?

# 410 A:

Yes, I rented part of the house.

# 411 Q:

And were you living there with someone?

# 412 A:

The owner of the house lived in the other part of the house.

# 413 Q:

What is the name of the owner of the house?

# 414 A:

(name deleted).

# 415 Q:

How do you spell the last name?

# 416 A:

Is it (name deleted)?

# 417 Q:

Does (name deleted) still live there?

# 418 A:

Yes.

# 419 MR.PETROCELLI:

Okay. We will have to break now. I was hoping that we could commence again on Monday. Mr. Leonard informs me he is not available on Monday, so I guess we are going to have to schedule this at the next best date for everyone.

# 420 MR. RE:

Tuesday?

# 421 MR. LEONARD:

I won't be available next week.

# 422 MR. PETROCELLI:

Well, I just want to say on the record that I would like to get this done as soon as possible.

# 423 MR. LEONARD:

That's fine.

# 424 MR. PETROCELLI:

And perhaps you can rearrange your schedule to make yourself available sometime next week?

# 425 MR. LEONARD:

No, I won't be able to be available next week.

# 426 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. Well, when can you make yourself available?

# 427 MR. LEONARD:

The week after.

# 428 MR. PETROCELLI:

On Monday, May 6?

# 429 MR. LEONARD:

Let me get back to you. I'm going over

# 430 MR. RE:

I'll be in trial that week.

# 431 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. Well, because of all the objections on the record, I just think it's important that we get this transcript completed as soon as possible.

# 432 MR. LEONARD:

Why don't we keep going now?

# 433 MR. PETROCELLI:

Because I have to stop at 4:30, and I can't finish in a half an hour, anyway.

# 434 MR. LEONARD:

How about tomorrow?

# 435 MR. PETROCELLI:

And I asked Mr. Re and he is not available tomorrow, although I'm willing to come in tomorrow to do this.

# 436 MR. LEONARD:

Well, I am, too, so...

# 437 MR. KELLY:

I am.

# 438 MR. RE:

I'm not.

# 439 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. So

# 440 MR. LEONARD:

All right.

# 441 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. So I guess we will have to adjourn at this point.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes the deposition of Allen Cowlings, Volume III. The number of videotapes used was three. We are going off the record, and the time is approximately 4:26.

# 442 (ENDING TIME: 4:26 P.M.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Allen Cowlings

With the grant of immunity?

Cowlings reveals his stated willingness to testify was conditional — undercutting Re's public claim that he simply 'wanted to talk' and establishing the privilege as strategic rather than compelled.

Daniel Petrocelli

Do you have something to hide, sir?

Forces Re to instruct non-answer on a direct, plain-English question, creating a stark record: the jury will see Cowlings refuse to deny it.

Allen Cowlings

The phone call came into Bob Bender's house, and Bobby and I were there. O.J. had called from his carphone.

Places OJ Simpson in active contact with Cowlings and Bender from his car phone in the days before the murders — directly relevant to the Bronco timeline and what Cowlings knew.

Donald Re

Anyone who implies that there is something wrong with asserting the Fifth Amendment is doing it for grandstanding and grandstanding only.

Re's heated outburst reveals the depth of tension between Cowlings' cooperative public posture and his litigation strategy — and hands Petrocelli exactly the confrontational optics he was seeking.

Evidence (1)

Informal

Photograph of Allen Cowlings and OJ Simpson at a Raiders vs. Denver playoff game, currently displayed in Cowlings' home.

discussed

Notable Exchanges (4)

Daniel Petrocelli•Allen Cowlings•Donald Re

Petrocelli used Re's own press statements to trap Cowlings into confirming his desire to testify was conditioned on immunity, then asked what steps Cowlings had taken to obtain it — Re intervened to argue no mechanism exists, directing non-answer.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•Allen Cowlings•Donald Re

Cowlings began answering a question about New York contacts during the murder week before Re cut him off mid-sentence to instruct him to assert the privilege — catching Cowlings already partly engaged with the answer.

tense

Daniel Petrocelli•Allen Cowlings

Cowlings disclosed that OJ called Bender's Long Island home from his car phone while both Cowlings and Bender were present — then corrected himself from an earlier characterization, placing the call precisely at Bender's house rather than a separate call to Cowlings.

revealing

Daniel Petrocelli•Dan Leonard•Donald Re

Closing scheduling colloquy: Petrocelli pressed to reconvene quickly given the volume of privilege objections on the record; counsel could not agree on a date, adjourning at 4:26 PM.

procedural

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Allen Cowlings

prior inconsistent statement via counsel's public statements

Petrocelli used Re's own press comments — that Cowlings wanted to testify fully — to show Cowlings' willingness was conditional on immunity, portraying the Fifth Amendment assertions as strategic concealment rather than genuine legal compulsion.

⚔ Allen Cowlings

implausible selective memory

Cowlings claimed no recollection of any conversation with Bobby Bender about OJ Simpson's behavior or demeanor during his stay at Bender's house before the murders — despite the two being close friends who acknowledged discussing 'the situation' generally.

Objections

11 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 9000 • 442 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Deposition Trial

Department 103