Redirect examination of Teresa Ramirez

📄 Redirect examination of Teresa Ramirez — Wednesday, September 13, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\SEP\13\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-TERESA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 153 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Teresa Ramirez (part 2) Jury instructions ▶

Witness: Teresa Ramirez
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, September 13, 1995 • Utterances: 102

Peter Neufeld cross-examines Teresa Ramirez, the videographer who filmed a July 27th deposition of ailing LAPD criminalist Thano Peratis. Neufeld probes the circumstances of the taping — particularly a 14-minute gap, whether Peratis ever left the room, and whether prosecutor Goldberg had coached Peratis before or during the session. The examination ends inconclusively when Neufeld requests time to cue up the tape to refresh the witness's recollection, and Judge Ito adjourns for the day.

# 1 THE COURT:

Mr. Neufeld.

# 2 MR. NEUFELD:

Just one second.

# 3 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel and the Defendant.)

# 4 MS. CLARK:

Miss Ramirez, hi. Good afternoon.

# 5 MS. RAMIREZ:

Good afternoon.

# 6 MS. CLARK:

You said you were on your way home when or you were about to leave when you were contacted by Miss Clark and Mr. Darden?

# 7 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 8 MS. CLARK:

And, in fact, just before that, you had been watching your colleague, Mr. Oppler, testify; is that right?

# 9 MS. RAMIREZ:

Part.

# 10 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And it was while you were listening to Mr. Oppler testifying that a supervisor of yours contacted you?

# 11 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 12 MS. CLARK:

And that would be a Deputy District Attorney named Ross?

# 13 MS. RAMIREZ:

She's an investigator.

# 14 MS. CLARK:

Okay. An investigator named Ross?

# 15 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 16 MS. CLARK:

And she made some joking, critical comment of your taping?

# 17 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 18 MS. CLARK:

And shortly after that, you were contacted by a Deputy District Attorney Miss Martinez; is that right?

# 19 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 20 MS. CLARK:

And as a result of that, you then were spoken to by--after Miss Martinez by Miss Clark and Mr. Darden; is that right?

# 21 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 22 MS. CLARK:

The next thing you know, you're down here in the courtroom?

# 23 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 24 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Now, back on that day on the 27th, you remember Miss Clark asking you a few questions a while ago about whether or not Mr. Goldberg told you anything about Mr. Peratis' health. Do you recall Mr. Goldberg telling you that Mr. Peratis had just had a--like a bypass, a heart surgery that summer--this summer? Do you recall something like that, that he had just had heart surgery?

# 25 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes, but I don't remember when it was that he mentioned.

# 26 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Now--by the way, just two other questions or two other subjects.

# 27 MR. NEUFELD:

I'm sorry, your Honor.

# 28 MR. NEUFELD:

During that 14 minutes when the tape wasn't playing, you said that Mr. Peratis got up and gave you a cable? Did he do that?

# 29 MS. RAMIREZ:

He didn't give me anything.

# 30 MS. CLARK:

Did he stay in the room with you that whole time?

# 31 MS. RAMIREZ:

He went into a space that it look like a big closet and got some cables and hooked up his TV.

# 32 MS. CLARK:

And that closet was in the room that you were in?

# 33 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes. It might be a small room.

# 34 MS. CLARK:

But you could see what he was doing when he did this?

# 35 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes. Yes.

# 36 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And other than that, he never left the room, did he?

# 37 MS. RAMIREZ:

No.

# 38 MS. CLARK:

Never left the room to go get a syringe or anything, correct?

KEY QUOTE

# 39 MS. RAMIREZ:

I don't remember that.

# 40 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Calls for speculation.

# 41 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 42 MR. NEUFELD:

To the best of your recollection, he was in the room the whole time?

# 43 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 44 MS. CLARK:

One other matter. Now, although you said to the Prosecutor that to the best of your recollection, Mr. Goldberg handed--did not hand Mr. Peratis any instructions that day, to your knowledge, did Mr. Goldberg--

# 45 MS. CLARK:

Objection. That misstates the testimony. The witness stated no.

# 46 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 47 MR. NEUFELD:

I thought that's what I just said, no.

# 48 THE COURT:

No. Did not hand. Restate the question.

# 49 MR. NEUFELD:

Sure.

# 50 MR. NEUFELD:

Okay. I know that you said a little while ago that as best you can recall, during that afternoon--by the way, during that 14-minute break, were you primarily concerned with packing and unpacking your equipment?

# 51 MS. RAMIREZ:

Well, we also watched the tape, took most of the--

# 52 MS. CLARK:

Were you--I'm sorry. Go ahead.

# 53 MS. RAMIREZ:

Most of that time was taken by watching the tape and then recueing the tape, playing it back to the end.

# 54 MS. CLARK:

Does your view finder have a play back so you can look through the view finder and see the tape?

# 55 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes, but I think I wanted to see what that TV looked like.

# 56 MS. CLARK:

But you couldn't simply see whether or not it's been taping by looking through the view finder?

# 57 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes. But it's difficult for everybody else to see it. I mean, you cannot. Only one person can.

# 58 MS. CLARK:

Okay.

# 59 MS. RAMIREZ:

So I thought it was better to just play it back on the big TV.

# 60 MS. CLARK:

All right. Now, you had said that Mr. Goldberg did not give--to the best of your recollection, give Mr. Peratis any instructions that day when the tape wasn't playing; is that right?

# 61 MS. RAMIREZ:

He did not.

# 62 MS. CLARK:

But you don't know to what extent Mr. Goldberg had prior conversations with Mr. Peratis before he arrived that day; isn't that correct?

# 63 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Withdrawn. Withdrawn.

# 64 MS. RAMIREZ:

We all came together.

# 65 MR. NEUFELD:

Well, but you don't know whether or not prior to your arrival that date, either earlier that day, the day before or some other day, Mr. Goldberg had conversations with Mr. Peratis where he explained to him what he wanted him to say the day that you arrived?

# 66 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Speculation.

# 67 THE COURT:

The way it's phrased, it's argumentative.

# 68 MR. NEUFELD:

While you were there, didn't Mr. Goldberg say that he had had or didn't he refer to prior conversations he had had with Mr. Peratis prior to the time you got there on July 27th?

# 69 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Confusing. Vague.

# 70 THE COURT:

Overruled. Do you understand the question?

# 71 MS. RAMIREZ:

It sounds like three questions.

KEY QUOTE

# 72 MR. NEUFELD:

Let me ask you this, Miss Ramirez. Do you remember that day while you were there Mr. Peratis holding up a subpoena? Do you remember that, holding up a piece of paper on the tape?

# 73 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 74 MS. CLARK:

Because you've seen the tape several times, haven't you?

# 75 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 76 MS. CLARK:

In fact, you're the person who edited the tape?

# 77 MS. CLARK:

Objection. 356 and 352.

# 78 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 79 MS. RAMIREZ:

Can you repeat the question?

# 80 MR. NEUFELD:

Are you the person who edited the tape?

# 81 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 82 THE COURT:

And, ladies and gentlemen, you'll recollect because I instructed you, the editing you saw in the tape was at my direction.

KEY QUOTE

# 83 MR. NEUFELD:

Yes.

# 84 THE COURT:

All right.

# 85 MR. NEUFELD:

And when Mr. Peratis held up that subpoena the day you were there on July 27th, he described the conversation he had with Mr. Goldberg back in February, didn't he, about that subpoena?

# 86 MS. RAMIREZ:

I don't remember the exact words.

# 87 MS. CLARK:

Do you remember a--Mr. Peratis holding up a piece of paper and saying, "This is the subpoena that Mr. Goldberg gave me"?

# 88 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Hearsay. Hearsay.

# 89 THE COURT:

Overruled. You can answer the question. Do you remember that?

# 90 MS. RAMIREZ:

I can only remember the piece of paper.

KEY QUOTE

# 91 MR. NEUFELD:

And do you remember him saying it was a subpoena, a subpoena for Mr. Peratis to come to court back in February? Do you remember that?

# 92 MS. CLARK:

Well, objection. Hearsay, your Honor.

# 93 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 94 MS. RAMIREZ:

Not exact words.

# 95 MR. NEUFELD:

If you saw that portion of the tape, would that refresh your recollection?

# 96 MS. RAMIREZ:

Yes.

# 97 MR. NEUFELD:

May I have just a few minutes to do that, your Honor, just to cue up that portion?

# 98 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Beyond the scope. Your Honor, the procedure to refresh the witness' recollection is to show it to the witness.

# 99 MR. NEUFELD:

Perhaps she could step down and she could look at it with Mr. Harris then sitting over there.

# 100 THE COURT:

Do you have headphones?

# 101 MR. HARRIS:

Yes, your Honor.

# 102 THE COURT:

All right. Let's conclude this for the day. We're not going to finish.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Teresa Ramirez

It sounds like three questions.

Witness pushes back on a convoluted Neufeld question about whether Goldberg referenced prior conversations with Peratis — one of the few moments of friction with the questioner.

Peter Neufeld

Never left the room to go get a syringe or anything, correct?

Neufeld tries to foreclose a prosecution argument that Peratis could not have tampered with anything during the break — then immediately objects to his own framing by allowing Clark to object for speculation.

Lance A. Ito

Ladies and gentlemen, you'll recollect because I instructed you, the editing you saw in the tape was at my direction.

Ito intervenes to preempt any jury inference that editing was done to hide something — clarifying the editing was court-ordered.

Teresa Ramirez

I can only remember the piece of paper.

Ramirez's limited memory of what Peratis said about the subpoena — prompting Neufeld to seek to play the tape to refresh her recollection.

Evidence (2)

Informal

Videotaped deposition of Thano Peratis recorded July 27th by Teresa Ramirez

discussed; Neufeld seeks to play portion to refresh witness recollection

Informal

Subpoena held up by Peratis on the tape, referencing a February conversation with Goldberg

discussed; witness recalls the paper but not Peratis's exact words about it

Notable Exchanges (3)

Peter Neufeld•Teresa Ramirez

Neufeld tries to establish that Goldberg had pre-coached Peratis before the July 27th taping. Ramirez deflects that she doesn't know what conversations occurred before her arrival, though she notes they all arrived together.

strategic

Peter Neufeld•Marcia Clark•Lance A. Ito

When Neufeld asks to play the tape to refresh Ramirez's memory, Clark objects as beyond scope and argues proper procedure is to show it to the witness privately. Ito adjourns before resolving the dispute.

procedural

Lance A. Ito

After Ramirez confirms she edited the tape, Ito immediately addresses the jury to clarify the editing was done at his direction — unprompted intervention to prevent juror confusion.

procedural

Light Moments (1)

Teresa Ramirez

Ramirez responds to a convoluted three-part question by saying 'It sounds like three questions.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Thano Peratis (indirectly)

suggestion of coaching/preparation

Neufeld uses Ramirez to lay groundwork that Goldberg may have scripted or pre-briefed Peratis before the deposition taping — trying to undermine the credibility of Peratis's videotaped testimony about blood draw quantities.

Objections

8 objections (1 sustained, 5 overruled)

Proceeding 7652 • 102 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103