📄 In-chambers procedures — Wednesday, September 13, 1995
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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\SEP\13\IN-CHAMBERS-PROCEDURES.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 153 of 167

In-chambers procedures

Date: Wednesday, September 13, 1995 • Utterances: 76
An in-chambers procedural session dealing with scheduling conflicts, witness availability, and the prosecution's withdrawal of their motion to admit June 17th (Bronco chase) evidence. Judge Ito sanctioned the prosecution $1,000 for arriving late to a hearing, escalating from $250 after Clark tried to deflect blame onto Shapiro.
1 (Appearances as heretofore noted.)
2 (Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
3 (Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)
4 (Pages 45504 through 45507, volume 222a, transcribed and sealed under separate cover.)
5 (The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
6 THE COURT:

All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. Mr. Simpson is again present before the court with his counsel, Mr. Shapiro, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Blasier, Mr. Neufeld, Mr. Scheck. The People are represented by Miss Clark, Mr. Darden, Mr. Yochelson and Mr. Harmon. The jury is not present. First order of business, counsel, I scheduled a hearing on the Prosecution's motion to admit certain testimony concerning the Defendant's activities, I guess we would call it, on June 17th. That hearing was set for 8:30 this morning. The court was here, Defense counsel was here and the Defendant was here. We were ready to proceed. The Prosecution did not choose to appear in court until nine o'clock. Is there an explanation for this?

7 MS. CLARK:

Yes, your Honor. The person designated to argue this segment of the case had an emergency at home and was unable to make it. And I apologize to the court, but the time has not been wasted. I have been in conference with other members of the team. At this time, your Honor, we would like to indicate to the court that we will not be asking to admit the events of June the 17th at this time; however, I repeat "At this time," because we have not yet heard the end of the Defense case. We have not yet heard surrebuttal. And I would like to reserve the option of asking to renew our request to admit that evidence depending on what we see in the balance of the Defense Case in Chief and Surrebuttal.

8 THE COURT:

All right.

9 MS. CLARK:

We would like to--we are trimming this case so that we can get it to the jury and we are hopeful that we can rest the People's rebuttal case tomorrow.

KEY QUOTE
10 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran, as to the withdrawal of the June 17th witnesses?

11 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes. Well, we certainly accept that withdrawal. We think it is appropriate and saves you having to waste your time on that, and we accept that obviously, your Honor. No problem. I would like to raise a couple of issues if I might, your Honor.

12 THE COURT:

All right. Well, we are not finished with that yet.

13 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Certainly.

14 THE COURT:

All right. The offer is accepted; however, for the failure to appear in court in a timely manner and failure to advise the court, sanction will be $250.00 to the District Attorney's office. That is to be paid by the close of business today.

15 MS. CLARK:

Excuse me, your Honor. May I remind the court that Mr. Shapiro kept the court waiting for twenty minutes, showing up at twenty after 9:00 when it was his witness on the stand, and suffered no sanction.

16 THE COURT:

Thank you. The sanction will be a thousand dollars.

KEY QUOTE
17 MR. COCHRAN:

How much?

18 THE COURT:

A thousand.

19 MR. COCHRAN:

May I proceed, your Honor, now? Your Honor, with regard to--at the end of yesterday your Honor asked us not to waste your time. Miss Clark on the record indicated certain witnesses. You will recall she said People like the modified Thano Peratis video which you talked about and Deedrick and Bodziak and the Bronco fiber issue and the Ackards and all those kind of things, and you said don't waste my time, get together. Mr. Douglas went over and talked to Mr. Darden who told him I don't know who we are going to call. They gave us no proffer, no offer of proof, no cooperation, no nothing. So we don't want to waste your time, Judge, but when they won't talk to Mr. Douglas, so what are we going to do? They say they don't know who they are calling. If, Judge, they are saying they are going to finish the case by Thursday or Friday, we are entitled to all rest of the witnesses and all we are trying to get is get somebody to talk to us so we can resolve this matter. If they really want to get this case to the jury, we would like our proffers and we would like to know who they are really going to call. The 17th is now out and that is fine and so we would just like to have--would you direct them to meet with Mr. Douglas right so we can get this done?

20 MR. DARDEN:

Good morning, your Honor. I met with Mr. Douglas yesterday afternoon. I gave him approximately six names. That included Sims, Deedrick, Bodziak, Lawrence Ackard, Nancy Ackard. What other names did I give you, Mr. Douglas? I don't know what he is talking about. I have given him the names.

21 MR. COCHRAN:

Well, Mr. Douglas can speak for himself.

22 MR. DARDEN:

I gave him the names. If Mr. Douglas says that isn't correct, he was writing on his pad, I was standing right here late at noon. Was that true?

23 MR. DOUGLAS:

I asked him what order is going to be called following Sims. Mr. Darden said, "I do not know." I asked him this morning. He gave me these names. I asked what order, who is next after Sims? This morning he said, "I do not know," if I'm mistaken. Please correct me.

24 THE COURT:

All right. But he gave you the witnesses. He has given you five or six names.

25 MR. DOUGLAS:

He did, your Honor, and I asked who follows Sims so I can have the person who does that witness ready after Sims.

26 MR. COCHRAN:

In other words, your Honor, what we are saying is he gave us the names in court. We want to know who is up next? What is the offer of proof?

27 THE COURT:

They have given you the names. We know who Bodziak is. We know who Sims is. We know who Deedrick is.

28 MR. DARDEN:

I can tell you this about the Ackards. We are trying to get the Ackards here from out of the country to testify tomorrow, so they won't be here today.

29 THE COURT:

All right. Testify as to what?

30 MR. DARDEN:

Heidstra issues.

31 THE COURT:

Heidstra, okay.

32 MR. DARDEN:

They have the discovery on that.

33 MR. COCHRAN:

All right, your Honor, and may I inquire, are they still planning to rest then by tomorrow or Friday, because then we would be entitled to anybody else they have. It is within the three days and we are trying to find out.

34 THE COURT:

I assume that is their case. They tell me that they are going to rest tomorrow or Friday.

35 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. That is fine then, your Honor. The last thing, your Honor, is--the next thing I would like to--we are going to have to address at this point on Bronco fiber issue which we think shouldn't take the court very long, speaking of no brainers, but we are ready to do that whenever you want to. The last thing is we would like to have Agent Martz, FBI Agent Martz back here. We need this court's assistance, if they are going to rest truly on Thursday or Friday, for our case on Monday, September 18th. We would like to request that now so we will have him here. And in addition to that, we expect to call Special Agent Whitehurst of the FBI and we expect that hopefully Mr. Scheck has started a procedure, but hopefully Justice will make this person available. He is a critical witness in this case and it will tie in with the Martz testimony so there is no delay in that regard.

36 THE COURT:

All right. If there are interstate subpoenas that need to be issued, submit them to Mrs. Robertson as soon as you can.

37 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Thank you. May I have one second, your Honor?

38 MR. DARDEN:

We have a day of down time.

39 MR. COCHRAN:

Trying to save down time. We will work on that day. The last thing is, your Honor, on this whole issue, if the Ackards anyone called with regard to Robert Heidstra's testimony, we need Detective Dennis Payne who we understand is retired and we want to put him on notice now. We need Payne.

40 THE COURT:

Is Payne the one who took the statement from the Ackards?

41 MR. COCHRAN:

From Heidstra.

42 THE COURT:

Heidstra.

43 MR. COCHRAN:

We need him right away and we want to put them on notice we need Payne so there will be no down time on that. Might as well have him here on Monday.

44 MR. DARDEN:

They should contact the LAPD. In any event, they marked Mr. Heidstra's statement. I'm not sure but I think you admitted it into evidence.

45 MR. COCHRAN:

We want Dennis Payne, so that is the issue on that.

46 MR. DARDEN:

Then call the LAPD.

47 THE COURT:

Then you are not willing to make him available?

48 MR. DARDEN:

He is retired, Judge. I can't make him available.

49 THE COURT:

All right. You will have to subpoena him.

50 MR. COCHRAN:

Get an address or something, your Honor?

51 MR. DARDEN:

Penal code section that would preclude us from giving them the address of retired police officers.

52 THE COURT:

Well, counsel, what we will do is I don't care about this fight between the parties. I will have my staff contact the LAPD and make them--

53 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor. That is all we are asking.

54 THE COURT:

Get cooperation to produce him.

55 MR. COCHRAN:

Produce him for Monday, your Honor, thank you very kindly, or soon thereafter.

56 THE COURT:

He is retired. He could be in Florida. Who knows?

57 MR. COCHRAN:

Well, as with the other witnesses, we don't want to delay this trial, we will pay for him to come back.

58 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, with respect to Agent Deedrick, if I understand it correctly, he is supposed to be here arriving here at 12:30, the last representation. And Mr. Morton is going to be able to get here at 12:30, one o'clock. I at least would like the opportunity to look at the underlying data from the report that they just gave us. I do get that opportunity.

59 THE COURT:

I issued that order yesterday.

60 MR. SCHECK:

I understand that.

61 THE COURT:

As soon as the exemplars or the impressions are here, you are entitled to look at them, to see them. You are entitled access to that. We dealt with that issue yesterday.

62 MR. SCHECK:

No, I understand that, but I just wanted to make clear we are going to get that opportunity, and this includes, the jeans, the envelope, the shirt.

63 THE COURT:

The whole enchilada.

KEY QUOTE
64 MR. SCHECK:

In terms of scheduling, I wanted to put the court on notice.

65 THE COURT:

All right.

66 MS. CLARK:

Your Honor, we need to--no. 1, we need to be heard with respect to the admissibility of the Whitehurst issue and we are prepared to argue that so that we do not waste time trying to locate a witness who I believe has testimony that has nothing to do with this case and is irrelevant, so you know, we are going to go into down time to make him available when he has no admissible evidence. Secondly, I would like to argue the Bronco fiber motion.

67 THE COURT:

Well, let's do this: Let's proceed with your next witness this morning with the jury, because the jury is expecting testimony now. As soon as we complete that phase of your presentation, where do you anticipate going after that?

68 MS. CLARK:

Well, we had wanted to go with the Ackards. Since they are not available immediately, I would like to--we may have a little down time because we have to fly witnesses in. We have the Peratis tape presented with the testimony of Steve Oppler, and we have--which we have edited and we will show to the court, and then we intend to call Doug Deedrick, any fiber witnesses that we are allowed to call, and Bill Bodziak, but they won't be ready for testimony until tomorrow morning, so we might have--

69 THE COURT:

All right. So then the point of my asking you that question is that we don't need to resolve that issue now. If there is going to be down time for witnesses, we can use that time to argue the motion.

70 MS. CLARK:

Well, the problem is I don't know whether to notify the witness to come in or not until the court rules.

71 THE COURT:

Where are these witnesses coming from?

72 MS. CLARK:

Washington, I believe.

73 (Brief pause.)
74 MS. CLARK:

They are flying. They are not in the state.

75 THE COURT:

Okay.

76 MS. CLARK:

I didn't want to fly them out if the court was going to--they are on standby, I have them on call, but I'm not going to spend the money to have them out until you say that they can testify.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Marcia Clark
May I remind the court that Mr. Shapiro kept the court waiting for twenty minutes, showing up at twenty after 9:00 when it was his witness on the stand, and suffered no sanction.
Clark's attempt to deflect the sanction backfired spectacularly — Ito immediately quadrupled it from $250 to $1,000.
Lance A. Ito
Thank you. The sanction will be a thousand dollars.
Ito's terse response to Clark's pushback became an immediate and memorable rebuke.
Lance A. Ito
The whole enchilada.
Rare moment of levity from the judge, confirming Scheck's access to all physical evidence items — jeans, envelope, shirt.
Marcia Clark
We are trimming this case so that we can get it to the jury and we are hopeful that we can rest the People's rebuttal case tomorrow.
Signals the prosecution is in wind-down mode, withdrawing the June 17th motion as part of case trimming.

Evidence (4)

Informal
Modified Thano Peratis video, to be presented with testimony of Steve Oppler
discussed as upcoming rebuttal evidence
Informal
Bronco fiber evidence
motion to admit pending argument
Informal
Robert Heidstra's statement taken by Detective Dennis Payne
referenced; defense seeks Payne as witness
Informal
Deedrick hair/fiber report underlying data, including jeans, envelope, and shirt
defense granted access per prior court order

Notable Exchanges (3)

Marcia ClarkLance A. Ito
Clark arrived late, apologized, then tried to mitigate the sanction by invoking Shapiro's prior tardiness. Ito responded by quadrupling the fine from $250 to $1,000.
tense
Johnnie CochranChristopher DardenCarl Douglas
Dispute over witness proffer — Darden insisted he gave Douglas six names; Douglas confirmed names were provided but complained Darden wouldn't specify the order witnesses would be called. Ito sided with the prosecution, noting the names themselves were sufficient.
strategic
Johnnie CochranChristopher DardenLance A. Ito
Defense sought the court's help locating retired Detective Dennis Payne. Darden cited a penal code provision barring disclosure of retired officers' addresses. Ito bypassed the dispute by directing his own staff to contact LAPD.
procedural

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito
Ito used the phrase 'the whole enchilada' to confirm Scheck's access to all physical evidence items.
Lance A. Ito
Ito mused that retired Detective Payne 'could be in Florida. Who knows?' after Darden said he couldn't produce him.

Witness Demeanor

(Brief pause.)

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 7632 • 76 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 SEP 13, 1995 📄 In-chambers procedures
SEP 13, 1995 KRT DvH TD