📄 Jury preparation — Tuesday, May 9, 1995
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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\9\JURY-PREPARATION.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 70 of 167

Jury preparation

Date: Tuesday, May 9, 1995 • Utterances: 57
The court held pre-testimony housekeeping before resuming Dr. Robin Cotton's DNA testimony. The primary business was resolving terminology and display issues with the prosecution's DNA evidence boards, including a ruling that the boards must use 'not excluded' rather than 'source' or 'possible source.' The court also granted a standing defense objection covering all DNA testimony, deferred the mixed-stain frequency issue to 1pm, and worked out microphone logistics for Dr. Cotton.
1 (Appearances as heretofore noted.)
2 (Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
3 (Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)
4 (The following proceedings were held in open Court, out of the presence of the jury:)
5 THE COURT:

All right. Good morning, counsel. Back on the record in the Simpson matter.

6 MR. SHAPIRO:

Good morning, your Honor.

7 THE COURT:

Mr. Simpson is again present before the Court with his counsel, Mr. Shapiro, Mr. Blasier, Mr. Scheck and Mr. Neufeld. Also present Mr. Uelmen. The People are represented by Mr. Clarke and Mr. Darden. The jury is not present. The record should reflect that this morning at eight o'clock the Court met with counsel informally for an hour this morning to review and discuss the various crime scene and autopsy photographs that the Prosecution wishes to offer into evidence. And that the Defense, at the request of the Court, will be filing a written response to the Prosecution's letter of April the 14th. That is to be filed by the close of business Friday, May the 12th, and that we will have the formal hearing as to each one of the photos the afternoon, May the 24th, at 4:00 P.M. All right. Mr. Neufeld, you indicated you had a matter you needed to take up before we resume with Dr. Cotton.

8 MR. NEUFELD:

Yes, your Honor. Actually there are a few matters. As you may recall, we met twice already on the boards that the People intend to use today.

9 THE COURT:

Yes.

10 MR. NEUFELD:

And you were going to rule, one, on the objection to the use of the word "source." We believe that the proper term for that column should be "failed to exclude" and not "excluded by" because these are all, as even Dr. Cotton will testify or will testify, these are tests of exclusion and that is the standard terminology in the scientific literature, in the scientific community, so that is one of the issues that has to be resolved before the boards come out. I think you have already resolved, and I may be mistaken or the People consent to remove the "trail" word so that is no longer an issue. Then we have the issue of mixed stains and you had asked the People to first produce yesterday numbers on what the aggregate frequencies would be for the mixed stains. Umm, I'm told by Mr. Clarke that there is still--they don't have those numbers yet. But that obviously has to be resolved before the boards come out as well. Finally, your Honor, and perhaps most importantly, we talked about both in the interest of saving time and preserving a record that we would have standing objections before the various questions are posed to Dr. Cotton on issues which we had specifically objected to in Defendant's notice of objections to the testimony concerning DNA evidence and memorandum in support of this which was filed with the Court I believe on March 20, 1995. And the Court issued a written decision with respect to that motion. What we would like to do, obviously, is at this point--or get some guidance from the Court--is again incorporate this notice of objections by reference, and insofar as the witness, the witness' testimony, touches upon any of the issues which we have specifically raised in our notice of objections, that the Court will deem it that we object to that testimony and to the witness' answer, so we don't have to constantly interrupt the proceedings all along.

11 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Clarke, let's address the trail issue first. I take it you have consented to revise the board to "walkway and driveway"?

12 MR. CLARKE:

Yes, that's fine, your Honor, and in fact those patches have been prepared or are being prepared.

13 THE COURT:

All right. As to the concern about the nomenclature source, on the source versus not excluded, have you reevaluated your position on that?

14 MR. CLARKE:

I think, as I mentioned to the Court last week, that it is our belief that, frankly, the term "possible source" is synonymous and neutral and there is no need to change it, but we do have patches if the Court so directs, however.

15 THE COURT:

What patch do you have prepared?

16 MR. CLARKE:

One that says "not excluded" for that particular column.

17 THE COURT:

I will direct the use of the "not excluded" label. All right. As to the mixed stains issue?

18 MR. CLARKE:

I think with regard to that issue we are going to have to require some more of the Court's time. This has taken some substantial mathematical calculations based on the samples that are involved, and I think an important background is as follows: With respect to this witness' testimony, there are only two particular samples that are involved. I don't know if the Court wants me to get into detail, but it is going to be our request that we actually convene a hearing with this Court about the issues that are involved in this, and they include, for instance, our position that this issue use has been totally waived by the waiver of a hearing. So I think we need some of the Court's time. I'm not going to get that far this morning, so however the Court would like to proceed with it, I think we need a more formalized hearing process.

19 THE COURT:

All right. Refresh my recollection as to which mixed stain comes up in Dr. Cotton's testimony.

20 MR. CLARKE:

There are two. One is item no. 78 from the bottom of Mr. Goldman's shoe that also has RFLP results. That one makes that one slightly unique in this series of results in this case as far mixtures. And the second item is the stain from the steering wheel of the Bronco that as I believe I mentioned to the Court last Friday, frankly, that stain is a little bit different than the others as well because while consistent with Mr. Simpson, there is obviously another contributor that is not directly related or may not be directly related to this case on the steering wheel, so that one is slightly different from the other mixtures as well. In this mixture issue, while I agree it needs to be resolved in some fashion before frequencies are discussed by Dr. Cotton, is frankly more relevant in the ensuing witness' testimony as well.

21 THE COURT:

All right. Then I would suggest we take that up at one o'clock. Let's proceed with Dr. Cotton's testimony and we will get to the mixed stain issue at 1:00.

22 MR. CLARKE:

Very good.

23 MR. SCHECK:

One other brief--

24 THE COURT:

I'm sorry. Let me ask Mr. Clarke one other question. Do you have any objection to the Court deeming the--allowing a standing objection as per the previous memorandum of points and authorities that was filed in late March?

25 MR. CLARKE:

No, not with the--as long as it is with the understanding that we believe those objections have been waived previously as well, but as far as eliminating the need to object at every step, certainly that I think is an appropriate way of proceeding.

26 THE COURT:

All right. Then I will deem these objections have been made for the course of the presentation of this witness. Mr. Scheck.

27 MR. NEUFELD:

Obviously to the next--to the other DNA witnesses as well so we don't have to bring it up again.

28 THE COURT:

Noted.

29 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, after a lot of hard work, we have come up with a proposed instruction, preliminary instruction on DNA statistics, that is four short paragraphs, very short. I think balanced and a real candidate for Caljic. Isn't that what they call it here?

30 THE COURT:

Yes.

31 MR. SCHECK:

And I think it is one of the most important rulings you will make in the whole case and it is our best effort, very short.

KEY QUOTE
32 THE COURT:

All right. Do you have copies for opposing counsel?

33 MR. SCHECK:

I have given Mr. Clarke a copy and maybe this is something that you would take up at one o'clock as well.

34 THE COURT:

All right.

35 MR. SCHECK:

I think it is-- (Brief pause.)

36 THE COURT:

All right. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jury, please.

37 MR. CLARKE:

I'm sorry, your Honor.

38 THE COURT:

Mr. Clarke.

39 MR. CLARKE:

Just one question. With respect to this witness' testimony, I understand there is available a wireless microphone, and when Dr. Cotton is, for instance, down in front of the jury, sometimes her voice is not being picked up by a microphone and I think it may aid her in being understood by the jury. With the Court's permission, we would like to use that.

40 THE COURT:

If she is down off the witness stand then she is standing right before the jury box. Do you think it is really necessary?

41 MR. CLARKE:

I think at times with these boards she is occasionally facing away, I think it will help, but I will leave that to the Court's discretion, obviously.

42 THE COURT:

Where is Dr. Cotton? Dr. Cotton, are you familiar with the perils of using wireless microphones?

43 DR. COTTON:

No, I don't think so.

44 THE COURT:

Have you discussed this with her, Mr. Clarke?

45 MR. CLARKE:

Only very briefly.

46 THE COURT:

What is your feeling on that, Dr. Cotton?

47 DR. COTTON:

I don't know what the perils are.

48 THE COURT:

No. My point--how is your voice holding up?

49 DR. COTTON:

Oh, it is fine. You know, we could wait until this afternoon and see if I'm having any problems.

50 THE COURT:

The Court reporter seems to be voicing an opinion.

51 REPORTER OLSON:

When her back is to me and she is facing the jury I do have difficulty understanding her.

52 THE COURT:

Dr. Cotton, realizing there are no off-the-record comments while you are using the microphone--

53 DR. COTTON:

I see.

54 THE COURT:

All right. Let's use the microphone.

55 MS. PIETZ:

Your Honor, I will need about five or ten minutes to set it up.

56 THE COURT:

All right. Then we will proceed. Let's have the jury, please.

57 (Brief pause.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Lance A. Ito
I will direct the use of the 'not excluded' label.
Ruling on DNA board terminology — a defense win forcing more scientifically cautious language before the jury.
Barry Scheck
I think it is one of the most important rulings you will make in the whole case and it is our best effort, very short.
Scheck pressing the court on a proposed preliminary DNA statistics instruction, framing it as a landmark evidentiary ruling.
George Clarke
While consistent with Mr. Simpson, there is obviously another contributor that is not directly related or may not be directly related to this case on the steering wheel.
Prosecution acknowledging complexity in the Bronco steering wheel mixed stain — an implicit concession that complicates their narrative.
Lance A. Ito
Dr. Cotton, are you familiar with the perils of using wireless microphones?
Light procedural moment; Ito's dry humor before explaining that there are no off-the-record comments while mic'd.

Evidence (4)

Informal
DNA evidence display boards prepared by the prosecution for Dr. Cotton's testimony, including terminology columns and mixed stain data
discussed, terminology revised by court order
Item 78
Mixed stain from the bottom of Ron Goldman's shoe with RFLP results
discussed as a pending mixed-stain frequency issue
Informal
Mixed stain from the Bronco steering wheel, consistent with Simpson but containing a second contributor
discussed, deferred to 1pm hearing
Informal
Crime scene and autopsy photographs the prosecution intends to offer into evidence
reviewed informally at 8am; formal hearing scheduled for May 24 at 4pm

Notable Exchanges (4)

Peter NeufeldLance A. ItoGeorge Clarke
Defense argued 'source' language on DNA boards was scientifically improper and should read 'failed to exclude'; prosecution called 'possible source' synonymous and neutral; court sided with defense and ordered 'not excluded.'
strategic
Peter NeufeldLance A. Ito
Defense secured a standing objection covering all future DNA witness testimony, incorporating their March 20 notice of objections by reference to avoid constant interruptions.
strategic
Barry ScheckLance A. Ito
Scheck presented a proposed four-paragraph preliminary jury instruction on DNA statistics, calling it a candidate for CALJIC and 'one of the most important rulings' in the case.
strategic
Lance A. ItoDr. Robin CottonGeorge Clarke
Brief exchange about equipping Dr. Cotton with a wireless microphone for when she turns away from the court reporter to face the jury; court reporter voiced a practical objection that settled the matter.
light

Light Moments (3)

Lance A. Ito
Judge Ito asked Dr. Cotton if she was 'familiar with the perils of using wireless microphones' — meaning no off-the-record comments — and Cotton replied she didn't know what the perils were, prompting Ito to pivot to asking how her voice was holding up.
Barry Scheck
Scheck, presenting the proposed DNA instruction, asked 'Isn't that what they call it here?' about CALJIC — a small fish-out-of-water moment from the New York attorney.
Lance A. Ito
The court reporter interjected unprompted that she couldn't hear Dr. Cotton when her back was turned — Ito noted 'The Court reporter seems to be voicing an opinion.'

Witness Demeanor

(Brief pause.)

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 5964 • 57 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 MAY 9, 1995 📄 Jury preparation
MAY 9, 1995 KRT DvH TD