Cross-examination of Gregory Matheson (part 1)

📄 Cross-examination of Gregory Matheson (part 1) — Thursday, May 4, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\4\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-GREGORY-M.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 67 of 167

◀ Procedural matters Sidebar: photograph exhibits ▶

Witness: Gregory Matheson
Examiner: Robert Blasier
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, May 4, 1995 • Utterances: 344

Defense attorney Robert Blasier continues cross-examining LAPD criminalist Gregory Matheson, methodically building a blood-planting theory by establishing the importance of OJ Simpson's reference blood sample (item 17) as the 'hub' against which all other evidence is compared. Blasier walks through a detailed accounting of blood withdrawals from the 8ml reference tube over time, uses a cranberry-juice vacutainer as a demonstration prop, and elicits admissions that the sample was stored in a trash bag overnight without informing anyone — setting up the argument that blood could have gone missing and been used to plant evidence.

# 1 (Brief pause.)

# 2 (The following proceedings were held in open Court, in the presence of the jury:)

# 3 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. All right. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

# 4 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Matheson, would you please resume the witness stand, please.

Gregory Matheson, the witness on the stand at the time of the evening adjournment, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

# 5 THE COURT:

Mr. Matheson is undergoing cross-examination by Mr. Blasier. Good morning, Mr. Matheson.

# 6 MR. MATHESON:

Good morning.

# 7 THE COURT:

You are reminded, sir, you are still under oath. And Mr. Blasier, you may continue with your cross-examination.

# 8 MR. BLASIER:

Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. BLASIER

# 9 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Matheson, good morning.

# 10 MR. MATHESON:

Good morning.

# 11 MR. BLASIER:

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning.

THE JURY: Good morning.

# 12 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Matheson, I would like to ask you some questions about Mr. Simpson's reference blood sample. That is item no. 17, correct?

# 13 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it is.

# 14 MR. BLASIER:

That had originally been logged in as item no. 18 and--

# 15 MR. GOLDBERG:

Misstates the evidence.

# 16 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase.

# 17 MR. BLASIER:

It had originally been recorded by Mr. Fung and Ms. Mazzola as item no. 18 and at some point it was changed, correct?

# 18 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct. At some point it was believed to be 18 and then it was corrected.

# 19 MR. BLASIER:

Would you believe that the suspect's reference sample in a criminal case is an extremely important piece of evidence?

# 20 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it is.

# 21 MR. BLASIER:

And could you use the analogy that with a wheel? All items of evidence are compared to that, correct?

KEY QUOTE

# 22 MR. MATHESON:

To that and other reference samples, yes.

# 23 MR. BLASIER:

And that reference sample in effect is the hub of the wheel from which everything else is looked at, correct?

# 24 MR. MATHESON:

Along with other references, yes.

# 25 MR. BLASIER:

And if the integrity of that reference sample is compromised in some fashion, then that would affect the validity of the analysis of other things that are compared to it, would you agree with that?

# 26 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative.

# 27 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 28 MR. MATHESON:

Yes. If there is some problem that compromises the validity of it, then there is a concern, yes.

# 29 MR. BLASIER:

And would you agree that with respect to blood samples, many tests can be run on extremely small amounts of blood samples?

# 30 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 31 MR. BLASIER:

And would you agree that by virtue of that, that very small amounts of blood could be used hypothetically to contaminate large numbers of items of evidence?

# 32 MR. GOLDBERG:

Vague, overbroad.

# 33 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 34 MR. MATHESON:

I'm not sure what you mean by "very small" and "large quantity." You could--well, if the samples come in direct contact with each other, sure, there could be transferring contamination.

# 35 MR. BLASIER:

And we talked about yesterday that as small as one or two nanograms, one or two billionths of a gram of blood can be tested and you can get results using DNA testing, correct?

# 36 MR. GOLDBERG:

Misstates the testimony.

# 37 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 38 MR. MATHESON:

Very small quantities, yes, can be detected and tested.

# 39 MR. BLASIER:

Now, would you also agree that blood in a sense is anonymous in that by just looking at it you can't tell where it came from, can you?

# 40 MR. MATHESON:

No, you cannot.

# 41 MR. BLASIER:

And by the same token, a swatch that has what appears to be blood on it, just by looking at that you can't tell anything about where that came from, can you?

# 42 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 43 MR. BLASIER:

Now, when blood is drawn from a suspect it is done in a hospital setting, is it not, generally, or a medical setting?

# 44 MR. GOLDBERG:

Irrelevant.

# 45 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 46 MR. MATHESON:

In a medical setting, yes.

# 47 MR. BLASIER:

The detectives don't do that in their office, do they?

# 48 MR. MATHESON:

No, not normally.

# 49 MR. BLASIER:

It is done by a trained person who knows how to draw blood, correct?

# 50 MR. MATHESON:

It is my understanding, yes.

# 51 MR. BLASIER:

Now, have you drawn blood before yourself? Do you know how to do that?

# 52 MR. MATHESON:

No, I don't.

# 53 MR. BLASIER:

Have you seen it done?

# 54 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 55 MR. BLASIER:

Are you familiar with the techniques that are used to draw blood?

# 56 MR. MATHESON:

Only on those that have been used on me.

# 57 MR. BLASIER:

Are you familiar with the technique where a syringe is used to take blood out of a vein and then the syringe is injected into a vacutainer?

# 58 MR. MATHESON:

I have heard about it. I have never seen it done.

# 59 MR. BLASIER:

And the vacutainer or the tubes that we have been talking about, you were shown a couple of them yesterday or the other day. Do you recall those?

# 60 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I do.

# 61 MR. BLASIER:

And they are manufactured with a vacuum inside. That is why they are called vacutubes, correct?

# 62 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 63 MR. BLASIER:

So that when a needle is stuck into a vacutainer, it tends to suck in whatever might be in the syringe, correct?

# 64 MR. MATHESON:

Well, as far as--well, there is a vacuum. It is going to try and draw in whatever is stuck into it, if there is a needle with an opening in it.

# 65 MR. BLASIER:

And do you know how much blood would be drawn in, given the amount of vacuum in a vacutainer, how much blood would you drawn in just on its own coming in from a syringe? In other words, nobody is pushing on the end of the syringe. Do you have any idea?

# 66 MR. GOLDBERG:

No foundation.

# 67 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 68 MR. BLASIER:

Do you have any idea how much blood would be drawn into a vacutainer given the amount of vacuum that is in those containers, if you just stuck a syringe with blood in it in the top without pushing the plunger down?

# 69 MR. GOLDBERG:

Incomplete hypothetical and no foundation.

# 70 THE COURT:

Foundation. Sustained.

# 71 MR. BLASIER:

Have you ever done any experiments on trying to determine how much blood goes into an vacutube because of the vacuum in that tube?

# 72 MR. MATHESON:

No, I have not.

# 73 MR. BLASIER:

Your Honor, I have an exhibit I would like to mark.

# 74 (Brief pause.)

# 75 THE COURT:

Mrs. Robertson.

# 76 THE CLERK:

1135.

# 77 THE COURT:

1135. And Mr. Blasier, what is this?

# 78 MR. BLASIER:

This is a vacutainer that contains some cranberry juice.

# 79 THE COURT:

All right.

# 80 (Deft's 1135 for id = vacutainer)

# 81 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Matheson, let me show you this exhibit which is 1135?

# 82 THE COURT:

1135.

# 83 MR. BLASIER:

I showed you that I believe yesterday, did I not?

# 84 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, you did.

# 85 MR. BLASIER:

And we--I gave you a measuring device so that you could verify how much cranberry juice was in that vial, did I not?

# 86 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 87 MR. BLASIER:

And we verified that there are approximately eight milliliters in that vial, correct?

# 88 MR. MATHESON:

When I poured it off and measured it, I measured 7 and a half.

# 89 MR. BLASIER:

And we noticed that there was some still in the bottom of the tube, correct?

# 90 MR. MATHESON:

That's correct.

# 91 MR. BLASIER:

So there was 7 and a half plus what was in the bottom of the tube in that vacutainer, correct?

# 92 MR. MATHESON:

Correct.

# 93 MR. BLASIER:

Now, you described that, I believe the other day, as a 10-milliliter tube, didn't you?

# 94 MR. MATHESON:

That was an assumption I had, yes.

# 95 MR. BLASIER:

It actually holds, if the cap is off, a lot more than 10 milliliters, doesn't it?

# 96 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 97 MR. BLASIER:

It holds approximately 14?

# 98 MR. MATHESON:

I don't know. I would want to measure it.

# 99 MR. BLASIER:

And when you were estimating on the stand two days ago, I believe, how much blood would be half of the vial, you measured from the top of the cap to the bottom of the vial, did you not? I think you put your finger on the top or your thumb on the bottom or maybe the other way around?

# 100 MR. MATHESON:

Actually, not to the top of the cap, but to the top of the glass part of the tube.

# 101 MR. BLASIER:

Now, eight milliliters of blood in that tube would essentially look very much like that, would it not?

# 102 MR. MATHESON:

Well, the fact that I measured it yesterday, yes.

# 103 MR. BLASIER:

Now, is blood heavier or lighter than water?

# 104 MR. MATHESON:

Blood is slightly heavier.

# 105 MR. BLASIER:

Do you know about how much?

# 106 MR. MATHESON:

Not very much at all.

# 107 MR. BLASIER:

Not very much?

# 108 MR. MATHESON:

There is a slight difference, though.

# 109 MR. BLASIER:

Do you know how much that vial weighs?

# 110 MR. MATHESON:

No, I don't.

# 111 MR. BLASIER:

It weighs very little, doesn't it?

# 112 THE COURT:

That is vague.

# 113 MR. BLASIER:

Can you estimate the weight of that vial?

# 114 MR. MATHESON:

Not just by feeling it, no.

# 115 MR. BLASIER:

Is it important that blood samples, such as a suspect's reference sample, be transported carefully?

# 116 MR. GOLDBERG:

Vague as to "carefully."

# 117 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 118 MR. MATHESON:

Well, you would want to transport anything carefully, particularly if you are dealing with a biological sample, so you don't spill it.

# 119 MR. BLASIER:

You don't want to break it either, do you?

# 120 MR. MATHESON:

No.

# 121 MR. BLASIER:

And is it appropriate for one criminalist to put a sample of blood in a trash bag and give it to another criminalist to transport without telling that criminalist what it is?

# 122 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative, calls for an opinion and conclusion.

# 123 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 124 MR. MATHESON:

I don't think it is inappropriate, no.

# 125 MR. BLASIER:

You would recommend that that is okay to put that in a trash bag, give it to somebody, don't tell them that it is in there to let them carry it around?

# 126 MR. GOLDBERG:

Argumentative, asked and answered.

# 127 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 128 MR. MATHESON:

I would be concerned if just the vial was dropped into a trash bag or something and then handed to it, but the fact that it is in other packaging and there is a little bit of padding there, I don't think it is wrong in doing that.

# 129 MR. BLASIER:

How about taking that trash bag and leaving it on a counter, on a table overnight without telling anybody that it is in there?

# 130 MR. MATHESON:

Well, you--

# 131 MR. BLASIER:

Would you recommend doing that?

# 132 MR. MATHESON:

It is not a great procedure, no.

KEY QUOTE

# 133 MR. BLASIER:

And you have janitors at SID, correct?

KEY QUOTE

# 134 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, we do.

# 135 MR. BLASIER:

Now, I want to go through the records that are maintained at the lab with respect to all records that you have of withdrawals from Mr. Simpson's reference tube. Do you have that in mind?

# 136 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I believe so.

# 137 MR. BLASIER:

I want you to assume, for purposes of a hypothetical, that you started with eight milliliters of blood, approximately. Do you have that in mind?

# 138 MR. MATHESON:

Okay.

# 139 MR. BLASIER:

Now, your records indicate, do they not, that on September 14th criminalist Collin Yamauchi withdrew approximately one milliliter of Mr. Simpson's reference blood?

# 140 MR. MATHESON:

I remember that reference, yes.

# 141 MR. BLASIER:

And do you need to look at the record to make sure of that?

# 142 MR. MATHESON:

It would be good, yes.

# 143 MR. BLASIER:

Okay.

# 144 (Brief pause.)

# 145 MR. BLASIER:

Let me show you a serology item description note.

# 146 MR. MATHESON:

Okay.

# 147 MR. BLASIER:

And that is consistent with what you said, is it not?

# 148 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it is, approximately one milliliter.

# 149 MR. BLASIER:

Now, on June 20th blood was withdrawn for purposes of doing toxicological analysis, correct?

# 150 MR. MATHESON:

I don't know the exact date. I would like to see a record of that.

# 151 MR. BLASIER:

Sure.

# 152 (Brief pause.)

# 153 MR. BLASIER:

Let me show you a toxicology document.

# 154 MR. MATHESON:

Okay.

# 155 MR. BLASIER:

And that indicates that as of that date there was 5.5 milliliters, correct?

# 156 MR. GOLDBERG:

Objection, no foundation for business records; hearsay.

# 157 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 158 MR. BLASIER:

You recognize that document as a regular form that is used in your toxicology unit?

# 159 MR. MATHESON:

It looks familiar, yes.

# 160 MR. BLASIER:

Those are filled out in the regular course of business of people that work in the toxicology unit?

# 161 MR. MATHESON:

I believe so, yes.

# 162 MR. BLASIER:

Do you know who filled that out?

# 163 MR. MATHESON:

Well, looking at the initials, that is not one of my units and I have not worked with this person, but the initials are consistent with a Lisa Flaherty.

# 164 MR. BLASIER:

Those are filled out during the normal course of conducting an analysis, correct?

# 165 MR. MATHESON:

My understanding, yes.

# 166 MR. BLASIER:

They were filled out--I'm sorry, were you done?

# 167 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 168 MR. BLASIER:

Those are filled out at the time that the testing is done, correct?

# 169 MR. MATHESON:

My understanding, yes.

# 170 MR. GOLDBERG:

No foundation.

# 171 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 172 MR. BLASIER:

That indicates that as of the 20th there were 5.5 milliliters in that reference sample, correct?

# 173 MR. MATHESON:

That is what the form indicates.

# 174 MR. BLASIER:

Now, on--some point around June 27th Mr. Yamauchi withdrew some sample from the reference tube for purposes of doing electrophoretic analysis, correct?

# 175 MR. MATHESON:

I would like to see the record. I believe he did a notation of having removed some portion of the blood on the 25th.

# 176 MR. BLASIER:

Okay.

# 177 MR. MATHESON:

Of June.

# 178 MR. BLASIER:

Let me show you a record--what is a thread, by the way?

# 179 MR. MATHESON:

A thread is a small portion of cloth.

# 180 MR. BLASIER:

Just like it sounds?

# 181 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 182 MR. BLASIER:

And when you use the term "a thread" in the context of electrophoretic analysis, what does that mean?

# 183 MR. MATHESON:

Well, thread is used--you put the sample on it, whether it is extracted from another item or a whole blood sample, let it absorb onto this thread that is approximately of a centimeter, a little over a quarter inch long, and that was placed into the gel that was shown a few days ago.

# 184 MR. BLASIER:

Why don't you take a look at that document I gave you and see if that refreshes your memory about some of that reference sample being removed on the 27th.

# 185 MR. GOLDBERG:

Assumes facts not in evidence, that he had a memory of it.

# 186 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 187 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, this does indicate that on June 27th some threads were prepared for electrophoresis.

# 188 MR. BLASIER:

That is your note?

# 189 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, that is in my writing.

# 190 MR. BLASIER:

Of your observation of that thread being removed?

# 191 MR. MATHESON:

Well, threads, yes.

# 192 MR. BLASIER:

Now, approximately how much blood is necessary to make a thread?

# 193 MR. MATHESON:

Well, I have never measured it, but the quantity of blood to actually make the threads is quite small. As a matter of fact, it may even be less than the amount of blood that is left in the pipetter that we use to withdraw the blood.

# 194 MR. BLASIER:

Okay. Now, on the 25th the records indicate that there was another withdrawal from the reference sample, correct?

# 195 MR. MATHESON:

I believe so, yes.

# 196 MR. BLASIER:

And let me--would having a record of that help you--help refresh your memory?

# 197 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it would.

# 198 (Brief pause.)

# 199 MR. GOLDBERG:

It still states facts--assumes facts not in evidence, that he had a memory.

# 200 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained. Sustained.

# 201 MR. BLASIER:

Do you have a recollection of blood being withdrawn approximately the 25th for certain types of analysis?

# 202 MR. MATHESON:

I was not present at that time, but I was made aware of it.

# 203 MR. BLASIER:

And you have reviewed the records about that, have you not?

# 204 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I have.

# 205 MR. BLASIER:

And would it--you remember what is in the record, don't you, or do you?

# 206 MR. MATHESON:

Not everything, no.

# 207 MR. BLASIER:

Would it help refresh your memory to see the records?

# 208 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it would.

# 209 MR. BLASIER:

May I show him, your Honor?

# 210 (Brief pause.)

# 211 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 212 MR. MATHESON:

Okay.

# 213 MR. BLASIER:

Now, does that document appear to be a form document that is used in your laboratory?

# 214 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it is.

# 215 MR. BLASIER:

And are those filled out at the time that the actions described in the document are taken?

# 216 MR. MATHESON:

At or about that time, yes.

# 217 MR. BLASIER:

And does that appear to be filled out in the appropriate manner?

# 218 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it does.

# 219 MR. BLASIER:

And do you recognize the handwriting?

# 220 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 221 MR. BLASIER:

Whose handwriting is it?

# 222 MR. MATHESON:

The majority of it on the page is Mr. Yamauchi's.

# 223 MR. BLASIER:

What does that document indicate with respect to the removal of blood from Mr. Simpson's reference sample at that time?

# 224 MR. GOLDBERG:

No foundation.

# 225 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 226 MR. MATHESON:

It indicates that on June 25th there was approximately three quarters of a milliliter removed.

# 227 MR. BLASIER:

And that was for what purpose?

# 228 MR. MATHESON:

For I believe ABO typing and some initial electrophoresis work.

# 229 MR. BLASIER:

Now, is there any indication on that record about an additional amount being withdrawn for toxicology?

# 230 MR. MATHESON:

Well, it doesn't reference it being removed for toxicology.

# 231 MR. BLASIER:

What does that reference?

# 232 MR. MATHESON:

That refers to the quantity of blood that is present in a microcentrifuge tube that was with the blood vial.

# 233 MR. BLASIER:

Now, a microcentrifuge tube, that is a little tiny tube that has almost a pointed bottom, correct?

# 234 MR. MATHESON:

It is a plastic tube, correct, that has kind of a conical-shaped bottom with a snap cap on the top or screw cap.

# 235 MR. BLASIER:

That holds about one and a half milliliters?

# 236 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 237 MR. BLASIER:

That record indicates that as of the date that Mr. Yamauchi withdrew three quarters of a milliliter for serological purposes that there was a microcentrifuge tube there with the reference vial, correct?

# 238 MR. MATHESON:

That was packaged with it, yes, that's correct.

# 239 MR. BLASIER:

And you have--you are familiar with that little microcentrifuge tube, are you not?

# 240 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I am.

# 241 MR. BLASIER:

You have seen it and you have measured it, haven't you?

# 242 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 243 MR. BLASIER:

And how much blood is in that microcentrifuge tube now?

# 244 MR. MATHESON:

At this moment?

# 245 MR. BLASIER:

Yes.

# 246 MR. MATHESON:

I don't know.

# 247 MR. BLASIER:

How much was in it when you measured it?

# 248 MR. MATHESON:

I would have to reference one of my notes.

# 249 MR. BLASIER:

Sure.

# 250 (Brief pause.)

# 251 MR. MATHESON:

Trying to locate the date in which one of those determinations was made.

# 252 THE COURT:

Can you use a straight edge?

# 253 MR. MATHESON:

No, thank you.

# 254 (Brief pause.)

# 255 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 256 MR. MATHESON:

Okay. I have a reference from September 21st that gives a total measurement for the blood vial and the microcentrifuge tube. I did not delineate how much was in each.

# 257 MR. BLASIER:

That indicates what?

# 258 MR. MATHESON:

On September 21, 1994, that there was approximately 3.8 milliliters total of blood.

KEY QUOTE

# 259 MR. BLASIER:

Now, do you recall in January of this year that you measured, as precisely as you could, the amount of Mr. Simpson's blood that was left?

# 260 MR. MATHESON:

I would want to confirm that.

# 261 MR. BLASIER:

Why don't you check your records.

# 262 MR. MATHESON:

(Witness complies.) I have a reference in my chronology that a request was made by Deputy D.A. Goldberg to determine the quantity of the blood present. I did not record on that chronology what that amount was.

# 263 MR. BLASIER:

What did you determine the total amount to be?

# 264 MR. MATHESON:

At that point I don't have notes on it. I believe I just telephonically advised him.

# 265 THE COURT:

Do you know which date that was done?

# 266 MR. MATHESON:

On January 4th, 1995.

# 267 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 268 MR. BLASIER:

I have two pictures I would like to have marked.

# 269 THE CLERK:

1136 and 1137.

# 270 MR. BLASIER:

Sorry?

# 271 THE COURT:

1136-A and B or do you want to do 1136 and 1137?

# 272 MR. BLASIER:

Let's do 1136-A and b.

# 273 THE COURT:

All right.

# 274 (Deft's 1136-A & B for id = photographs) (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 275 MR. BLASIER:

Let me show you a photograph, 1136-A. Does that appear to be the blood tube, the reference sample of Mr. Simpson with the microcentrifuge tube?

# 276 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it does.

# 277 MR. BLASIER:

And let me show you 1136-B. Does that appear to be another picture of the same thing of a slightly different angle?

# 278 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it does.

# 279 MR. BLASIER:

Could I display these on the elmo?

# 280 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 281 (Brief pause.)

# 282 MR. BLASIER:

Putting up 1136-A first.

# 283 (Brief pause.)

# 284 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Blasier.

# 285 MR. BLASIER:

Now, Mr. Matheson, that is the photograph you identified as Mr. Simpson's reference sample, correct?

# 286 MR. MATHESON:

Yes.

# 287 MR. BLASIER:

And that little tube at the bottom is the microcentrifuge tube that we were talking about?

# 288 MR. MATHESON:

It appears to be, yes.

# 289 MR. BLASIER:

That was a 1.5 milliliter tube. That is the capacity of that little one, isn't it?

# 290 THE COURT:

Mr. Harris, we need to see the bottom of that.

# 291 MR. BLASIER:

There we go.

# 292 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, that is the standard quantity for those tubes.

# 293 MR. BLASIER:

What does the business record indicate was remaining in that microcentrifuge tube as of approximately June 25th?

# 294 MR. MATHESON:

Well, according to Mr. Yamauchi, he put approximately three quarters ml's or milliliters.

# 295 MR. BLASIER:

And that indicates that that microcentrifuge tube, that was the blood withdrawn for the toxicological analysis, doesn't it?

# 296 MR. GOLDBERG:

Vague as to what indicates.

# 297 MR. BLASIER:

The business record that you have in front of you?

# 298 MR. MATHESON:

It does not specifically say that is what it was for in this record, no.

# 299 MR. BLASIER:

Would you agree that there is a no. 1477 associated with that entry?

# 300 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, there is.

# 301 MR. BLASIER:

And what does that stand for, do you know?

# 302 MR. MATHESON:

I believe it is a reference number in toxicology.

# 303 MR. BLASIER:

So--and that is a number that is assigned to a sample of blood when it is sent for toxicology, correct?

# 304 MR. MATHESON:

I don't know the inner workings of their unit, but it is a number that appears on the tube.

# 305 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 306 MR. BLASIER:

And is that the i.d. Number of the technician that does the work generally?

# 307 MR. MATHESON:

I don't know that, no.

# 308 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

# 309 MR. BLASIER:

I have one other photograph. 1137?

# 310 THE COURT:

1137.

# 311 (Deft's 1137 for id = photograph)

# 312 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Matheson, let me show you 1137. Does that appear to be another photograph of the vial?

# 313 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, it is.

# 314 MR. BLASIER:

And do you see initials on there on that vial, "W.F."

# 315 MR. MATHESON:

I see initials. It is not W.F.

# 316 MR. BLASIER:

What is it?

# 317 MR. MATHESON:

I believe it is L.M.F.

# 318 MR. BLASIER:

l.M.F. is who?

# 319 MR. MATHESON:

I believe that is Lisa Flaherty.

# 320 MR. BLASIER:

She is the person that does toxicology?

# 321 MR. MATHESON:

She works in that unit, correct.

# 322 MR. BLASIER:

There is a number next to her initials?

# 323 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, there is.

# 324 MR. BLASIER:

What is that number?

# 325 MR. MATHESON:

I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that is her serial number. I don't believe it is.

# 326 MR. BLASIER:

I'm sorry, I meant tell us what the numbers are.

# 327 MR. MATHESON:

I'm sorry.

# 328 MR. GOLDBERG:

I object that there is no foundation for the photograph, when it was taken; also discovery.

# 329 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 330 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, on the latter objection could I be heard?

# 331 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

# 332 MR. BLASIER:

Now, Mr. Matheson, do you recall, I believe in January, when I visited the lab, along with a Mr. Taylor and Mr. Scheck?

# 333 MR. MATHESON:

I know you were there, yes.

# 334 MR. BLASIER:

Let me show you 1136-B again. Do you remember us taking photographs and measurements of the reference tube?

# 335 MR. MATHESON:

Yes, I do.

# 336 MR. GOLDBERG:

I object on the same grounds, foundation and discovery.

# 337 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 338 MR. BLASIER:

Do you recognize your hand in that picture?

# 339 MR. MATHESON:

I'm not sure if that is my hand. I do remember manipulating the vial.

# 340 MR. BLASIER:

Okay. Is there any doubt in your mind that that is Mr. Simpson's reference blood vial?

# 341 MR. MATHESON:

No, there is not.

# 342 MR. BLASIER:

Okay. Now, I would like you to look at the purple top on that vial.

# 343 MR. GOLDBERG:

I still object on discovery grounds.

# 344 THE COURT:

All right. Let me see counsel at the side bar, please.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Robert Blasier

Could you use the analogy that with a wheel? All items of evidence are compared to that, correct?

Establishes the reference blood sample as the lynchpin of all DNA comparisons — undermining its integrity undermines everything.

Gregory Matheson

It is not a great procedure, no.

Matheson concedes that leaving the blood sample in a trash bag on a counter overnight without telling anyone was poor practice — a key admission for the blood-planting narrative.

Robert Blasier

And you have janitors at SID, correct?

Highlights the security risk of leaving a critical blood sample unattended and unannounced overnight.

Gregory Matheson

No, you cannot.

Matheson confirms blood is 'anonymous' — you cannot tell just by looking at it where it came from, supporting the planting theory.

Gregory Matheson

On September 21, 1994, that there was approximately 3.8 milliliters total of blood.

Part of the blood-accounting timeline Blasier is building — starting at ~8ml and tracking withdrawals to show more blood is missing than documented withdrawals explain.

Evidence (8)

Item 17

OJ Simpson's reference blood sample (originally logged as item 18 before correction)

discussed extensively — withdrawal history, chain of custody, storage conditions

Defense 1135

Vacutainer containing cranberry juice used to demonstrate vacuum draw and measure capacity (~7.5–8ml visible)

introduced and used for demonstration

Defense 1136-A and 1136-B

Photographs of Simpson's reference blood vial alongside the microcentrifuge tube, taken during defense lab visit in January 1995

introduced and displayed on ELMO projector

Defense 1137

Photograph of the reference vial showing initials 'L.M.F.' (Lisa Flaherty, toxicology) and a number

introduced; challenged on foundation and discovery grounds — sustained

Informal

Serology item description note showing Yamauchi withdrew ~1ml of reference blood on September 14

used to refresh witness memory

Informal

Toxicology document (initials consistent with Lisa Flaherty) showing 5.5ml remaining as of June 20

used to refresh memory; initially objected to as hearsay, then admitted as business record

+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (4)

Robert Blasier•Gregory Matheson

Blasier establishes the 'hub of the wheel' analogy — the reference sample is what everything else is compared to, so any compromise to it compromises all results. Matheson partially concedes.

strategic

Robert Blasier•Gregory Matheson

Blasier walks through a full blood-withdrawal accounting: starting ~8ml, through June 20 (5.5ml), June 25 (minus 0.75ml), June 27 (threads), September 14 (minus ~1ml), landing at 3.8ml in September — implying more blood is unaccounted for than the records explain.

methodical and revealing

Robert Blasier•Gregory Matheson

Blasier elicits that the reference blood was placed in a trash bag and given to another criminalist without telling them what it was, then left on a counter overnight with janitors having access. Matheson calls it 'not a great procedure.'

damaging

Robert Blasier•Gregory Matheson

Blasier tries to use photographs (1136-A/B, 1137) taken during a January 1995 defense lab visit to show the vial and microcentrifuge tube. Goldberg objects on foundation and discovery grounds; Ito calls a sidebar.

procedural/contested

Light Moments (3)

Gregory Matheson

Judge Ito asks Matheson 'Can you use a straight edge?' while he searches his notes; Matheson declines politely: 'No, thank you.'

Robert Blasier

Blasier brings out a vacutainer filled with cranberry juice as a courtroom demonstration prop, which he had apparently previewed with Matheson the prior day.

Robert Blasier

Blasier reads initials on the vial photograph as 'W.F.' — Matheson corrects him that they are 'L.M.F.' (Lisa Flaherty). Blasier clarifies he just wanted the numbers read aloud.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ LAPD SID / evidence handling procedures

admission of poor practice

Matheson concedes it is 'not a great procedure' to leave a critical blood sample in a trash bag on a counter overnight without informing colleagues, with janitors having access to the lab.

⚔ Gregory Matheson

gaps in documentation

Blasier shows that Matheson does not have precise notes on the January 1995 blood measurement — he only advised Goldberg by phone and recorded no quantity, undermining the completeness of the blood accounting.

⚔ LAPD blood custody chain

blood accounting discrepancy

Blasier walks through documented withdrawals totaling well under the apparent deficit from the original ~8ml sample, implying blood went missing without documentation — the foundation of the blood-planting argument.

Witness Demeanor

Witness is cooperative but careful, frequently asking to consult records before answering

Witness searches through notes multiple times on the stand

Witness complies with document review: '(Witness complies.)'

Objections

20 objections (7 sustained, 11 overruled)

Proceeding 5905 • 344 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103