📄 Cross-examination of Collin Yamauchi (morning, part 1) — Tuesday, May 30, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\30\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-COLLIN-YA.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 84 of 167

Cross-examination of Collin Yamauchi (morning, part 1)

Witness: Collin Yamauchi
Examiner: Barry Scheck
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, May 30, 1995 • Utterances: 562
Barry Scheck continued his cross-examination of LAPD DNA analyst Collin Yamauchi, systematically attacking the lab's validation procedures, evidence-handling protocols, and training deficiencies. Scheck forced Yamauchi to admit a typing discrepancy on a mock vaginal swab validation study (1.2,4 vs. the expected 1.2,1.3) that was never flagged in any written report, and pressed him on the failure to use slot-blots to detect sample degradation before processing the Bundy bloodstains. The examination ended with a highly charged — and immediately sustained — implication that Yamauchi's memory of seeing Detective Lange near the evidence on June 14th had been conveniently shaped by recent legal developments in the case.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. All right. Let the record reflect we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

3 THE COURT:

Mr. Yamauchi, would you resume the witness stand, please.

Collin Yamauchi, the witness on the stand at the time of the evening adjournment, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

4 THE COURT:

All right. Good morning, Mr. Yamauchi.

5 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Good morning, your Honor.

6 THE COURT:

Mr. Yamauchi, you are reminded, sir, that you are still under oath. And Mr. Scheck, you may continue with your cross-examination.

7 MR. SCHECK:

Thank you very much. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

THE JURY: Good morning.

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. SCHECK

8 MR. SCHECK:

Good morning, Mr. Yamauchi. I trust you had a good memorial day weekend?

9 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, I did. Good morning.

10 MR. SCHECK:

Over that memorial day weekend, sir, were you able to go back to your lab and compare the code sheet for the mock vaginal swab validation studies with the hybridization sheets that I showed you on Friday?

11 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, I was.

12 MR. SCHECK:

All right. And did in fact the mock vaginal swab code sheet that I showed you go with those hybridization records?

13 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

14 MR. SCHECK:

Do you have your records of those there?

15 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I don't.

16 MR. SCHECK:

Okay. And in reviewing that, with respect to item no. 1 from the mock vaginal swab case study, the sperm fraction on that sperm study was supposed to be a 1.2, 3; is that correct?

17 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I don't have it in front of me, but--

18 MR. SCHECK:

Sure.

19 (Brief pause.)
20 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

21 MR. SCHECK:

And in fact when you typed it, you typed it as a 1.2, 4?

22 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That is what was the result, but let me explain this here--

23 MR. SCHECK:

Well, did you just--

24 MR. HARMON:

Objection. Objection, your Honor. He cut him off.

25 THE COURT:

Let him finish think answer.

26 MR. SCHECK:

Excuse me, your Honor. I simply asked him did he type it as a 1.2, 4? Yes or no.

27 THE COURT:

Mr. Yamauchi, would you answer that question, please.

28 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes. Could I explain, please?

29 THE COURT:

You will have the opportunity to explain?

30 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Okay. Umm--

31 THE COURT:

Hold on. Next question.

32 MR. SCHECK:

And that is not the correct typing, is it?

33 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That is not the typing that the sperm fraction was meant to indicate.

34 MR. SCHECK:

Right.

35 MR. YAMAUCHI:

But it is--the result is acceptable.

36 MR. SCHECK:

Well, before you explain why you believe the result is acceptable, why don't we first get some facts on the table. You--you typed this as a 1.2, 4, correct?

37 MR. HARMON:

Objection, asked and answered.

38 THE COURT:

Overruled.

39 MR. YAMAUCHI:

On the SC fraction--yeah, actually both of them came back to reflect those results.

40 MR. SCHECK:

All right. In fact, why don't we at this point, your Honor, put--

41 THE COURT:

No. Let's just proceed with the two results.

42 MR. SCHECK:

Can I put it on the elmo?

43 THE COURT:

Let's not take the time to do it right now. Ask him about the two results.

44 MR. SCHECK:

If you look at the typing sheet, the hybridization strip for the sperm fraction, there is no 1.3 visible, is there?

45 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, I have looked at the better photographs, not this copy, and I didn't see anything there.

46 MR. SCHECK:

Right. So when you looked at the better copy, you saw no. 1.3 visible, correct?

47 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That is correct.

48 MR. SCHECK:

So when you look at the typing sheet, the only visible results you could see for the sperm fraction were a 1.2, 4; is that right?

49 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That's the carry-over from the epithelial cell fraction, yes, that's correct.

50 MR. SCHECK:

But the sperm fraction, that is supposed to be sperm DNA that has a genotype of 1.2, 1.3?

51 MR. HARMON:

Objection. That is argumentative, your Honor.

52 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

53 MR. SCHECK:

The sperm fraction on the mock vaginal code sheet indicates that the DNA in that fraction should typed as a 1.2, 1.3, correct?

54 MR. YAMAUCHI:

If the concentration of the sperm cells were high enough to be detected, then yes, that would be the type that I would expect.

55 MR. SCHECK:

Okay.

56 MR. YAMAUCHI:

But since they were not, the only detectable types there were that from the epithelial cell fraction which spilled over into the sperm cell fraction.

57 MR. SCHECK:

Under that you are saying there is carry-over, but let's just get to the facts. The fact is on the sperm fraction--

58 MR. HARMON:

Objection, your Honor.

59 THE COURT:

Sustained. That is argumentative.

60 MR. SCHECK:

Well, Mr. Yamauchi, the correct--the expected answer here is a 1.2, 1.3; is that correct?

61 MR. HARMON:

Objection. "Expected" is argumentative.

62 THE COURT:

Overruled. It is on the code sheet.

63 MR. YAMAUCHI:

There are no expected answers. That were the types of the cells that were put on this, but as I was saying earlier in Friday's testimony, these were made out to be challenging, somewhat similar to what we would get in a case work sample. And in case work sample there are not always enough of the sperm cells in order to get the typing off of them, so we wanted to reflect somewhat similar situations in our validation procedure and make the samples challenging. And in this case it was in line with what I would expect if I had somewhat similar samples in case work, where the female's type would show up and then you would not get any typing from the male fraction. That quite often happens. It involves mixtures. It is inherent in sexual assault cases to have mixtures which will reflect both the type of the male and the female, one or the other or, you know, some combination thereof.

64 MR. SCHECK:

Are you finished?

65 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, I am.

66 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Now, would you please answer the question. The question is--

67 MR. HARMON:

That is argumentative.

68 THE COURT:

It is. Rephrase the question, counsel.

69 MR. SCHECK:

Would you answer this question, Mr. Yamauchi:

70 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, I object. I object to that. That is argumentative.

71 THE COURT:

Sustained.

72 MR. SCHECK:

The mock sample--the mock sample, Mr. Yamauchi, indicates that the sperm fraction has a 1.2, 1.3, correct? Yes or no?

73 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Listed on that sheet, yes, it does.

74 MR. SCHECK:

You typed a 1.2, 1.4? Yes or no?

75 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That was the result I obtained.

76 MR. SCHECK:

Now, anywhere on your sheets do you indicate that the 1.2, 4 was not the result that was expected, according to the mock vaginal swab code sheet? Is that anywhere in your reports?

77 MR. YAMAUCHI:

You said "Expected," and once again, we are dealing with--

78 MR. SCHECK:

I said expected according to the code sheet?

79 THE COURT:

Wait, wait, wait. Don't interrupt the witness.

80 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, he is not being responsive.

81 THE COURT:

No, counsel. Don't interrupt the witness. The problem is, he doesn't like the terminology "Expected results." The issue is, is the result that the code sheet reflects in his report? The answer to that question from the testimony so far has been no. I understand there is a second such result.

82 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, let's just stick with this one.

83 THE COURT:

Well--

84 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, my question--

85 THE COURT:

Counsel, counsel, my question--

86 MR. SCHECK:

My question, most respectfully, was as expected on the code sheet, so let me rephrase it to make it crystal clear.

87 THE COURT:

Take out the word "Expected."

88 MR. SCHECK:

The result you got, 1.2, 4 for the sperm fraction, was not the result listed on the code sheet which was 1.2, 1.3, right?

89 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No. I got a 1.2, 4 there.

90 MR. SCHECK:

Right. So wasn't the result that was listed as the sperm fraction on the code sheet correct?

91 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That is the type of the sperm cells that were placed on the swabs.

92 MR. SCHECK:

Is that correct, Mr. Yamauchi? Can you answer that question yes or no?

93 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, your Honor--

94 THE COURT:

Sustained. Mr. Scheck, why don't you take the podium.

95 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Yamauchi, anywhere in your sheets for this mock vaginal swab study in your sheets do you indicate that the typing result you got from the sperm fraction 1.2, 4 does not match the code sheet typing of 1.1--1.2, 1.3? Do you indicate that anywhere.

96 MR. HARMON:

Objection. Objection. Asked and answered, your Honor.

97 THE COURT:

Overruled.

98 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Okay. I'm sorry. One more time.

99 MR. SCHECK:

Do you indicate on your hybridization records, or any other form you filled out on this mock vaginal swab test, that the typing you got of 1.2, 4 for the sperm fraction is not the same as the 1.2, 1.3 that the code sheet indicates is associated with the sperm fraction? Did you indicate that anywhere?

100 MR. YAMAUCHI:

The result is acceptable for that particular sample.

101 MR. SCHECK:

I didn't ask you that question, sir.

102 MR. YAMAUCHI:

So it is not--

103 MR. SCHECK:

Could you answer my question?

104 THE COURT:

You don't get to argue with the witness. You can ask me to strike.

105 MR. SCHECK:

Move to strike the answer as nonresponsive.

106 THE COURT:

The answer is stricken. Mr. Yamauchi, answer the question.

107 MR. SCHECK:

Did you indicate that anywhere in your papers?

108 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

109 MR. SCHECK:

In reviewing your work did any of your supervisors indicate anywhere in any written document that your typing of 1.2, 4 for the sperm fraction was not in accord with the 1.2, 1.3 for the sperm fraction indicated on the code sheet?

110 MR. HARMON:

Objection, it is argumentative. Assumes facts not in evidence, your Honor.

111 THE COURT:

Overruled.

112 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

113 MR. SCHECK:

Did not the LAPD, in reporting on the validation studies, indicate that you, Collin Yamauchi, correctly typed every sample given you? You either got the right answer or no result, but you never got a wrong answer?

114 (No audible response.)
115 MR. SCHECK:

Isn't that what the report of the validation study indicates?

116 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Could I see that paper again?

117 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
118 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I can't find mine. Can I just show Mr. Harmon's--

119 MR. HARMON:

Well, it is an exhibit, your Honor.

120 MR. SCHECK:

I understand that, but I can't seem to find the paper.

121 THE COURT:

Do we have the exhibit?

122 MR. SCHECK:

I took it and I can't find it right now and I have to make a copy of it. Can I just show this to the witness?

123 THE COURT:

Mr. Harmon, can you hand counsel your copy?

124 MR. HARMON:

It is exhibit 1181.

125 MR. SCHECK:

Looking at exhibit--Defense exhibit 1181, doesn't it indicate that you, Collin Yamauchi, did not give a wrong typing result on any validation studies? You either got the right answer or no result?

126 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes. That is what it indicates there.

KEY QUOTE
127 MR. SCHECK:

Thank you.

128 MR. SCHECK:

Now, Mr. Yamauchi, you indicated, when we were here last Monday (Sic), that you needed to look at some document to refresh your recollection with respect to whether or not you knew anything--you had read anything with respect to false positives on the CACLD proficiency tests. And your Honor, I have two documents that I would like to mark Defendant's next in order.

129 MR. HARMON:

Objection, your Honor. That misstates the testimony.

130 THE COURT:

Sustained.

131 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Did you indicate, in your testimony Friday, that you couldn't remember whether you had read anything about reports from the CACLD concerning their blind trials during your training?

132 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes. I wasn't sure.

133 MR. SCHECK:

All right. You wanted to look at some documents to see if it would refresh your recollection?

134 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

135 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, may I mark these two sets of documents?

136 THE COURT:

Yes.

137 MR. SCHECK:

What?

138 THE CLERK:

1183.

139 MR. SCHECK:

Sorry?

140 THE CLERK:

1183.

141 MR. SCHECK:

All right. One will be 1183, a document of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 pages.

142 (Deft's 1183 for id = 9-page document)
143 MR. SCHECK:

And I would like to mark as 1184 an article of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 pages.

144 (Deft's 1184 for id = 8-page document)
145 MR. SCHECK:

Showing you 1183, Mr. Yamauchi--

146 MR. HARMON:

Can I see that?

147 MR. SCHECK:

Sure.

148 (Brief pause.)
149 MR. SCHECK:

Let's start with 1183. Could you review that document and see if it refreshes your recollection as to whether or not you ever read any reports from the California Association of Crime Lab Directors with respect to their blind trial studies?

150 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I don't believe I have read this.

151 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Have you ever heard of a Dr. William Thompson and Dr. Simon Ford?

152 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I've heard of them.

153 MR. SCHECK:

And do you know them to be authors that are critical of forensic DNA typing methods of crime labs?

154 MR. HARMON:

Objection, hearsay, irrelevant.

155 THE COURT:

Sustained.

156 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Have you ever read an article written by Dr. Ford and Thompson entitled "The meaning of a match sources of ambiguity in the interpretation of DNA prints that concerns the CACLD study"?

157 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I haven't.

158 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Are you sure of this? Do you want to take a look and see if this refreshes your recollection.

159 MR. HARMON:

Objection. There is no basis for--

160 THE COURT:

Sustained.

161 MR. SCHECK:

All right. You have never read such an article?

162 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

163 MR. SCHECK:

So have you ever read--do you make it a practice to read articles that are critical of the forensic DNA typing methods of laboratories?

164 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for hearsay, no foundation.

165 THE COURT:

Overruled. Overruled.

166 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Do I make it a practice? You mean go out of my way to look for them? No, I don't.

167 MR. SCHECK:

All right. In the course of your training have you reviewed any articles by scientists that were critical of the forensic DNA typing methods of crime laboratories?

168 MR. HARMON:

Objection, your Honor, no foundation, calls for hearsay, 721 evidence code.

169 THE COURT:

Overruled.

170 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I know I have read articles with pros and cons in it, but I have read so many articles and so much literature it is hard to point out specifically where it was.

171 MR. SCHECK:

Can you tell us by name any one article you've read that was critical of the typing methods of DNA laboratories?

172 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for hearsay, no foundation, your Honor.

173 THE COURT:

Overruled.

174 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I would have to go back and review my article and stuff like that.

175 MR. SCHECK:

Would it be fair to say that in the course of your training no one at LAPD made a particular effort to search out the views of critics and make sure that people in training read the views of critics?

176 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for speculation, no foundation, hearsay.

177 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

178 MR. SCHECK:

Was it--was a concerted effort made during the course of your training to have analysts at the LAPD DNA laboratory review articles by critics of DNA typing methods as practiced by forensic laboratories?

179 MR. HARMON:

Objection, assumes facts not in evidence, calls for hearsay, no foundation.

180 THE COURT:

Sustained.

181 MR. SCHECK:

All right. In the course of your training were you ever directed to read articles about forensic DNA typing?

182 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Forced to or I mean--yes, we read them on our own. It is part of our own training. We've got to convince ourselves that the things that we are doing are correct and that we can get good results on them, so of course we read articles. And it is not a matter of anybody directing us to do this. We read articles dealing with the pros and cons to this type of typing and scientific practice so that we can be well-rounded and aware of everything that is going on.

183 MR. SCHECK:

Well, Mr. Yamauchi, what I'm really asking you is--well, withdrawn. Are you saying, sir, that there was no one who was in charge of your training who gave you sets of articles to read?

184 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

185 MR. SCHECK:

In other words, you on your own, in the course of your training period, would figure out for yourself what was appropriate to read or not to read? Is that how it worked?

186 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, we go to, like I said before, CAC meetings and a lot of talk goes on over there as to what is the new article, and yeah, it might be worth reading, and so we get information that way, as well as talking amongst ourselves or through Roche Molecular System, that class. There is all kind of ways we have access to information.

187 MR. SCHECK:

All right. But there was no one or two people in your training that actually sat down and developed a set of readings for you to review? That didn't happen, right?

188 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

189 MR. SCHECK:

Now, briefly, sir, over the weekend have you been able to review how many external proficiency tests you did before you commenced work on this case?

190 MR. YAMAUCHI:

How many I did?

191 MR. SCHECK:

Yes. You said you needed to go back and look at the record to refresh your recollection.

192 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, I don't recall you asking me to check and see how many I did. I recall you asking me to go back and reference that--those set of hybe strips that you gave me.

193 MR. SCHECK:

In any of the external proficiency tests that you performed before you did the work on this case, did any of them involve degraded samples? In other words, the external agency sent you degraded samples to type?

194 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, you are going to have to be a little bit more specific about that because, technically speaking, once a sample is made it is starting its degrading process right away, so to a certain extent all samples are going to be degrading. But do you mean some type of a time study where they are degraded to certain points and levels of DNA that they have measured? I don't know. That would be up to the company.

195 MR. SCHECK:

All right. When you took these external studies, did you do yield gels and slot-blots to determine the amount of human DNA in the samples?

196 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

197 MR. SCHECK:

You never did that?

198 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

199 MR. SCHECK:

Isn't the use of a yield gel and a slot-blot together a way for an analyst to determine whether or not a sample is degraded?

200 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That gives you avenues of information.

201 MR. SCHECK:

A yield gel, as the jury has seen, is a mini gel that has known samples that give bands of a certain intensity, correct?

202 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

203 MR. SCHECK:

And then you compare the amount--the intensity of the bands from the unknown samples on the yield gel to give you an idea of how much total DNA there is in the sample, both bacterial and human, correct?

204 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yeah. At that point you wouldn't be able to distinguish between the two.

205 MR. SCHECK:

And then, after a yield gel, one can do a slot-blot, correct?

206 MR. YAMAUCHI:

And/or.

207 MR. SCHECK:

But you can do a slot-blot?

208 MR. YAMAUCHI:

You can do a slot-blot.

209 MR. SCHECK:

Before? You could do it before?

210 MR. HARMON:

Objection, your Honor. He is not letting him finish.

211 THE COURT:

Sustained.

212 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, a slot-blot would be the choice that we would use because we do our samples with chelex extractions. A yield gel is not effective because the chelex procedure winds up with a sample that is--that is not fitted for the yield gel's purposes, so we would have to use what Mr. Scheck is referring to right now, which is a slot-blot.

213 MR. SCHECK:

Well, a slot-blot gives you, again looking at the intensity of the bands from the known sample and comparing the intensity of the bands from the unknown specimens, it gives you a measure of the amount of human DNA in a sample, correct?

214 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, an approximate idea.

215 MR. SCHECK:

So if you combine information from a yield gel and a slot-blot, you can get a measure of how much bacterial DNA there is in a sample, as opposed to human DNA, correct?

216 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, you could, if you did a pheno chloroform extraction.

217 MR. SCHECK:

And if you do a yield gel and a slot-blot together and find out that there is a comparatively greater amount of bacterial DNA in a sample than human DNA, that is an indication that the sample is degraded?

218 MR. YAMAUCHI:

If you did a pheno chloroform extraction, you would be able to tell that, but once again, we use chelex extractions so we could do the slot-blot and that could be done even after the test results are obtained and as a--at a level of troubleshooting.

219 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, move to strike this part of the answer as not responsive.

220 THE COURT:

Overruled.

221 MR. SCHECK:

Go ahead. Are you finished? I'm sorry.

222 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yeah, that's fine.

223 MR. SCHECK:

My point, sir, is that by using the yield gel and the slot-blot together, one can come to a conclusion as to how much bacterial DNA is in a sample, versus human DNA, correct?

224 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Once again, if you assume that the person did a pheno chloroform extraction to begin with, which that is not the procedure we use. Once again, we do the chelex extraction.

225 THE COURT:

All right. Let's move on.

226 MR. SCHECK:

You are saying that in your opinion it is impossible to do a yield gel while doing chelex extractions?

227 MR. HARMON:

Objection. Misstates the testimony. It is argumentative.

228 THE COURT:

Sustained.

229 MR. SCHECK:

Can you do a yield gel when doing chelex extractions?

230 MR. YAMAUCHI:

You can, but it is not going to give you information.

231 MR. SCHECK:

So you can do a yield gel and you can do a slot-blot when doing chelex extractions, correct?

232 MR. HARMON:

Objection, it is irrelevant. It is argumentative.

233 THE COURT:

Overruled.

234 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Okay. The--once again, chelex extractions yields somewhat of a different type of an extraction product, and because it actually to a certain extent chops the DNA up into smaller pieces, but pieces that are not too small for the PCR amplification process and it also delivers DNA in a state that is what we call single-stranded, in other words, it is not together in the two-stranded form, which the pheno chloroform extract yields, and it is because of this that you can do a yield gel, of course, on a chelex extraction, but it doesn't give you any information like the pheno chloroform extract would give you if you did a yield gel on that.

235 MR. SCHECK:

Are you finished?

236 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

237 MR. SCHECK:

All right. So you can do a yield gel while doing pheno chloroform extractions? Yes or no.

238 MR. HARMON:

Objection.

239 THE COURT:

Sustained. Let's move on.

240 MR. SCHECK:

Section 15 of your protocol deals with yield gels, does it not?

241 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I would have to see that.

242 (Brief pause.)
243 MR. SCHECK:

While you are looking at it, can you tell us if in section 15 of your protocol concerning yield gels it indicates anywhere that it shouldn't or cannot be done when you are doing chelex extractions? Does it say that?

244 MR. YAMAUCHI:

It doesn't address that point there. It is only a protocol to explain how to do the yield gel.

245 MR. SCHECK:

Uh-huh. And section 16 explains how to do a slot-blot?

246 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

247 MR. SCHECK:

And you are telling this jury that in terms of doing chelex extractions, you have no means--withdrawn. In doing chelex extractions you don't have the ability to do a yield gel and a slot-blot together to determine whether or not a sample is degraded because it has a lot of comparatively more bacterial DNA than human DNA? Is that what you are saying?

248 MR. HARMON:

Objection. It is argumentative and misstates the testimony, your Honor.

249 THE COURT:

Sustained.

250 MR. SCHECK:

Is it your testimony, sir, when doing chelex extractions, that one cannot do a yield gel and a slot-blot together to get a measure of whether or not a sample is degraded with bacterial contamination?

251 MR. HARMON:

Objection, it is argumentative and misstates the testimony.

252 THE COURT:

Overruled.

253 MR. YAMAUCHI:

You can't run a yield gel and get the information that you are referring to.

254 MR. SCHECK:

Now--so you don't know--and in these external proficiency tests that you did, you can't even run slot-blots?

255 MR. YAMAUCHI:

It wasn't necessary. There was typeable results. If there was a reason why, I would--I would definitely go back and troubleshoot it by using a yield gel. The extracts aren't thrown away. They are still there.

256 MR. SCHECK:

Uh-huh. Now, in these external proficiency tests you did before working on this case, did it involve bloodstains that were mixtures involving two or more contributors?

257 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I don't have recall having a mixture on any of my proficiency tests or blood stains.

258 MR. SCHECK:

That would cover proficiency tests before you did work on this case and after you did work on this case?

259 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

260 MR. SCHECK:

But this case involves bloodstains with mixtures, according to the Prosecution's theory of two or more people?

261 MR. HARMON:

Objection, it is argumentative.

262 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

263 MR. SCHECK:

Does this case, in your opinion, sir, involve bloodstains that are mixtures of two or more contributors?

264 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I did some typing that reflected a mixture, yes.

265 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I would like to show--I would like to put on the screen Defense exhibit 1159-H.

266 (Brief pause.)
267 THE COURT:

Mr. Scheck.

268 MR. SCHECK:

Thank you.

269 MR. SCHECK:

Now, Mr. Yamauchi, is it part of your training that an analyst should systematically change or wash gloves between examining or cutting different items of evidence?

270 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, if you are cutting swatches it is really not necessary because you are not touching the swatches with your gloves.

271 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I move to strike the answer as not responsive. I asked him a specific question.

272 MR. SCHECK:

Is it part of your training that an analyst should systematically change or wash gloves between examining or cutting different items of evidence?

273 MR. HARMON:

Objection. That is compound, your Honor.

274 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

275 MR. SCHECK:

Is it part of your training that an analyst should systematically change gloves between cutting different items of evidence?

276 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

277 MR. SCHECK:

Is that in your protocol?

278 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I am not aware of it.

279 MR. SCHECK:

You did not systematically change or wash gloves between cutting different items of evidence in this case, did you?

280 MR. HARMON:

Objection. It is compound, your Honor.

281 THE COURT:

Overruled.

282 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Once again, I--I changed my gloves when it is necessary. If I'm dealing with swatches, and I believe I explained this earlier, I use a sterile scalpel blade to do my manipulations.

283 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I move to strike this as not responsive.

284 THE COURT:

Overruled.

285 MR. HARMON:

May he finish his answer, your Honor?

286 THE COURT:

No, no. You can ask the next question. Proceed.

287 MR. SCHECK:

Do you feel that routinely changing gloves between each item of evidence that you cut takes too much time?

288 MR. HARMON:

Objection, it is vague.

289 THE COURT:

Overruled.

290 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I just don't think it is necessary.

291 MR. SCHECK:

Do you feel that changing your gloves as a matter of routine between cutting different items of evidence would lower the risk of cross-contamination?

292 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, if you are touching the evidence item with your gloves, then yes, that is a very good point taken, but if your gloves are not coming in contact with the item of evidence, it is not necessary.

293 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Now, you helped design boards that were presented in this case concerning the methods used for drying swatches?

294 MR. YAMAUCHI:

For one thing, I didn't help design any boards.

295 MR. SCHECK:

Were you consulted in the construction of boards that were introduced through Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola in evidence in this case concerning the drying methods using test-tubes? Were you consulted when those boards were put together?

296 MR. HARMON:

Object as beyond the scope of direct.

297 THE COURT:

Sustained.

298 MR. SCHECK:

Is changing of gloves between handling wet swatches during the drying process something you believe necessary?

299 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, again, if you are handling--you mean the gloves physically coming in contact with the swatch itself?

300 MR. SCHECK:

Are you familiar with the method used in this case by Mr. Fung and Miss Mazzola to dry the swatches by taking wet swatches out of plastic bags, placing them in test-tubes?

301 MR. HARMON:

Objection. That is beyond the scope of direct.

302 THE COURT:

Sustained.

303 MR. SCHECK:

Did you, Erin Riley or anyone else from the DNA unit, give a lecture to the criminalists that collect, dry and package the evidence, such as Mr. Fung and Miss Mazzola, telling them that it was critical to systematically alternate substrate controls when handling swatches in the evidence processing room because such controls could later be used as a check against cross-contamination in DNA testing?

304 MR. HARMON:

Objection. It is compound, may call for hearsay, your Honor.

305 THE COURT:

It is compound.

306 MR. SCHECK:

Did you or Erin Riley or anyone from the DNA unit give lectures to the criminalists, specifically Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola, about how to handle swatches in the evidence processing room which were going to be subjected to DNA testing?

307 MR. HARMON:

Objection, it is compound, may call for hearsay.

308 THE COURT:

Overruled.

309 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, I personally haven't lectured them. Erin Riley may have talked to them about that. I don't know.

310 MR. SCHECK:

In the course of setting up your DNA laboratory, was there any discussion that there should be a uniform method among all the criminalists for handling blood swatches to minimize the risk of cross-contamination?

311 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for hearsay.

312 THE COURT:

Overruled.

313 MR. HARMON:

Calls for speculation, no foundation.

314 THE COURT:

Overruled. Was there any such discussion?

315 MR. YAMAUCHI:

With Dennis and Andrea? No.

316 MR. SCHECK:

No. First question. Was there any discussion among you in the DNA unit that it would be important to have one uniform way for handling wet swatches for purposes of minimizing the risks of cross-contamination in DNA testing?

317 MR. HARMON:

Objection, beyond the scope.

318 THE COURT:

Overruled.

319 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Discussion of one uniform way--no, I would have to say no.

320 MR. SCHECK:

Now--

321 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
322 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I'm looking for the board now that concerns cutting the swatches.

323 (Brief pause.)
324 THE COURT:

All right. While we are looking for that exhibit, if anybody needs to take a comfort break.

325 (Brief pause.)
326 THE COURT:

Mr. Scheck, why don't you hold on just a second. We are waiting for one of our jurors to return.

327 (Brief pause.)
328 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, this is exhibit 277.

329 THE COURT:

All right. Why don't you wait until we have all of our jurors back.

330 MR. SCHECK:

Oh, okay.

331 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
332 THE COURT:

All right. We have our full complement of jurors. Mr. Scheck, which exhibit is this?

333 MR. SCHECK:

This is--you are testing my short-term memory. That is very dangerous this morning. 277.

334 THE COURT:

All right. People's 277. Proceed.

335 MR. SCHECK:

Now, Mr. Yamauchi, this is the evidence sampling board, is it not?

336 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, that is what it is described as on the top.

337 MR. SCHECK:

Did you have any part in putting this board together?

338 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, at the D.A.'s request I was asked to be in some photographs and they put it together.

339 MR. SCHECK:

You mean you didn't give them any advise on how this ought to look based on what you actually did in cutting the swatches in this case?

340 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for hearsay, your Honor.

341 THE COURT:

Sustained.

342 MR. SCHECK:

Well, you said the D.A.'s set it up, right?

343 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

344 MR. SCHECK:

You just said that, didn't you?

345 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

346 MR. SCHECK:

Well, before that was set up, didn't you have an extensive discussion with them about exactly what happened before this board was put in place?

347 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes. They asked me what I did, and how I did it, and they said let's take some photographs documenting that process. I said "Fine."

348 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Yamauchi, didn't you have a bigger role in setting up boards other than this one?

349 MR. HARMON:

Objection. It is irrelevant, beyond the scope.

350 THE COURT:

Sustained.

351 MR. SCHECK:

Well, you recall a videotape being made of Andrea Mazzola picking up swatches?

352 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, I have an objection. May we approach?

353 THE COURT:

No. Sustained. It is irrelevant.

354 MR. SCHECK:

Was a videotape made of this?

355 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

356 MR. SCHECK:

Okay. And in this demonstration you are cutting a plain white swatch; is that correct?

357 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

358 MR. SCHECK:

You are not cutting a red swatch full of blood, are you?

359 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

360 MR. SCHECK:

And was that done to minimize the risk that during the course of putting this together you might accidentally get a little red on your glove?

361 MR. HARMON:

Objection. It is argumentative.

362 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

363 MR. SCHECK:

Do you know--who made the decision to use a white swatch rather than a red swatch?

364 MR. YAMAUCHI:

About using red swatches, I don't think that issue ever came up. The whole idea was to demonstrate the procedure that I would go through in sampling.

365 MR. SCHECK:

Well, most of the specimens that you cut were red swatches covered with blood?

366 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

367 MR. SCHECK:

But you are not demonstrating a red swatch covered with blood on this board, are you?

368 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes. I'm just demonstrating the procedure I used to cut such a swatch.

369 MR. SCHECK:

And you were aware that other demonstration boards had been put together starting at the beginning of the process where swatches were made with blood on them?

370 MR. HARMON:

Objection. It is beyond the scope, argumentative.

371 THE COURT:

Sustained. Counsel, the board pretty much speaks for itself, what it is and what it isn't, so let's not waste a lot of time on this.

372 MR. SCHECK:

All right.

373 MR. SCHECK:

Now, are you telling us, sir, that when you went through all the different swatches on the morning of June 14th, that you only used one hand with the scalpel in it to manipulate those swatches?

374 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, that is how I do my sampling.

375 MR. SCHECK:

So in other words, looking at this board, you have a scalpel that is about how long?

376 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Approximately an inch and a half.

377 MR. SCHECK:

And when you grip it, about how much of the blade is there that is uncovered by your fingers?

378 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I don't grab the blade.

379 MR. SCHECK:

Well, look at no. 3 on this exhibit 277. Does that demonstrate how you held the scalpel when you went about manipulating the swatches?

380 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

381 MR. SCHECK:

All right. And about how much of the scalpel is exposed as you hold it in your hand? How long an area is that?

382 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, maybe three-quarters of an inch.

383 MR. SCHECK:

And the way you go about cutting these swatches and then putting them in a test-tube, as indicated on 3, 4 and 5 of this evidence sampling board, is that you do it with just one hand with that scalpel?

384 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

385 MR. SCHECK:

You cut it; is that correct, cut the swatch?

386 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

387 MR. SCHECK:

And then you stick the scalpel into the swatch, pick it up and put it into the microfuge tube?

388 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Right, the microcentrifuge.

389 MR. SCHECK:

On the morning of June 14th when you did the swatches in this case, you did all the swatches with one hand?

390 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, this is the same procedure I used, yes. That is how I do it.

391 MR. SCHECK:

And you don't use forceps or tweezers?

392 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I don't.

393 MR. SCHECK:

And you never touch any of the swatches with your glove?

394 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I don't.

395 MR. SCHECK:

And you didn't touch any of the swatches with your glove on June 14th?

396 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

397 MR. SCHECK:

Now--and you feel there is no danger in this technique of touching a swatch with your glove?

398 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I never said anything about touching the swatch with my glove.

399 MR. SCHECK:

It doesn't happen?

400 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I didn't touch the swatches with my glove.

401 MR. SCHECK:

Now, you told us on direct examination that with respect to item 49 you originally counted out five swatches?

402 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

403 MR. SCHECK:

And then you noticed that two swatches were stuck together?

404 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

405 MR. SCHECK:

And then you pulled them apart, didn't you?

406 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

407 MR. SCHECK:

Are you telling us that you pulled apart those swatches with one hand holding that scalpel and didn't use a forceps and didn't use a tweezers and didn't use your other hand?

408 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yeah. Well, it is not easy, but if you take the scalpel blade, you can get it in between them and kind of jiggle them apart.

KEY QUOTE
409 MR. SCHECK:

And you have a specific recollection that you were able to do that in this case?

410 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

411 MR. SCHECK:

Incidentally, when you were handling the socks last Friday, were you aware that you were also touching the microphone with your gloved hand and then went down and touched the socks?

KEY QUOTE
412 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I could have, yeah.

413 MR. SCHECK:

Were you aware of it?

414 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

415 MR. SCHECK:

And so as far as you are concerned there is no possibility that you inadvertently touched the swatches even when you were pulling apart those two swatches that were stuck together on sample 49?

416 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No. I used a scalpel blade.

417 MR. SCHECK:

Now--

418 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
419 THE COURT:

Mr. Scheck, 10:45.

420 (Brief pause.)
421 MR. SCHECK:

Now, Mr. Yamauchi, please listen carefully to my question. Is it part of your training to change lab paper between cutting different items of biological evidence?

422 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Okay. If I'm working on one item that needs to be placed on directly to the lab paper, then yes, of course, I will change the paper. But if I'm working on cloth swatches, what I do is I change the chem wipes that are beneath the bindle, the paper bindle.

423 MR. SCHECK:

So you believe it is important to change paper between handling blood swatches?

424 MR. YAMAUCHI:

The paper immediately underneath the bindle that I'm working on.

425 MR. SCHECK:

Are you aware that in scraping out the blood swatches in this case Andrea Mazzola and Dennis Fung did not change the paper between items?

426 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for hearsay, beyond the scope.

427 THE COURT:

Sustained.

428 MR. SCHECK:

Did you hear the testimony of Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola with respect to how they handled the blood swatches in the evidence processing room on June 14th?

429 MR. HARMON:

Objection, beyond the scope, calls for hearsay.

430 THE COURT:

Sustained.

431 MR. SCHECK:

I take it that it is the beyond the scope objection that you are sustaining?

432 THE COURT:

Calls for hearsay.

433 MR. SCHECK:

Well, you listened to testimony in this case from your fellow criminalists, didn't you?

434 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

435 MR. SCHECK:

And did you have any part whatsoever in advising Dennis Fung, Andrea Mazzola or the Prosecutors on how to create the board dealing with drying swatches?

436 MR. HARMON:

Objection, beyond the scope, compound, calls for hearsay.

437 MR. SCHECK:

Go to the issue of paper.

438 MR. HARMON:

Beyond the scope, calls for hearsay. No foundation, whatever it goes to.

439 THE COURT:

Overruled.

440 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I didn't have anything to do with making their boards or--that was all through the Prosecution. They made their own boards.

441 MR. SCHECK:

So in your opinion, when handling blood swatches, when you are taking them out of test-tubes, one should change the paper?

442 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, if the swatches are going to touch the paper, then, yes, I would say that that would be a good idea, but if they are not allowing the swatches to touch the paper, then there really isn't any reason to change the paper beneath them. Do you see my point?

443 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Yamauchi, I thought you just told us that it was your routine practice to change paper every time that you handled a different blood swatch except when you were--when you had chem wipes underneath the bindles?

444 MR. HARMON:

Objection. It is argumentative, misstates the testimony.

445 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

446 MR. SCHECK:

Did you just tell us that you believed that paper ought to be changed between each evidentiary item, including blood swatches, except in an instance where you are just changing the chem wipes?

447 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes. That is what I said, and that had to do with the blood swatches again.

448 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Is it part of your training to clean a table with bleach between cutting different evidentiary items?

449 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No. I make sure that there is a barrier between the table and the item, somewhat like fresh paper, but I wouldn't bleach it down every single time.

450 MR. SCHECK:

That is not in your protocol?

451 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Not to my recollection.

452 MR. SCHECK:

And you didn't do it in this case, did you?

453 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I didn't.

454 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
455 MR. SCHECK:

Putting up 1159-B.

456 (Brief pause.)
457 MR. SCHECK:

Now, Mr. Yamauchi, in the course of your training was there discussion that the danger of cross-contamination is greatest when an analyst is dealing with degraded samples?

458 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I don't recall anything to do with my training specifically stating that.

459 MR. SCHECK:

Your training took six months at least?

460 MR. YAMAUCHI:

At least.

461 MR. SCHECK:

How long was your training period?

462 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Approximately six months.

463 MR. SCHECK:

All right. And you--you took a course at Roche?

464 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

465 MR. SCHECK:

And you did readings?

466 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

467 MR. SCHECK:

And you are telling us that in the course of your readings and in the course of the Roche class there was no discussion that the danger of cross-contamination is greatest when an analyst is dealing with degraded samples?

468 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for hearsay, your Honor.

469 THE COURT:

Overruled.

470 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Those exact words being the greatest course of contamination, no, I don't remember anything like that.

471 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Let's try a different phrase. Was there discussion that the risk of cross-contamination was raised when dealing with degraded samples?

472 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I don't recall any discussion like that. If you had more information to go along with that, just degraded is not enough for me to make a distinction there.

473 MR. SCHECK:

And in the course of all of your training there was no discussion of false positives occurring with degraded samples?

474 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No.

475 MR. SCHECK:

On June 14th you had no idea if the swatches that you were handling from the Bundy scene were degraded?

476 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, like I said before, all our case work samples are degraded to a certain degree. How badly--no, there is no way of knowing, by looking at a sample, what the quantity and quality of DNA is on it.

477 MR. SCHECK:

Right. They looked like rich red swatches to you when you were handling them on June 14th?

478 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, some of them were red. Some of them were light red and they were all different types of shades.

479 MR. SCHECK:

Uh-huh. And I think, as you told us already, that it is not your practice to do yield gels?

480 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, because we do chelex--

481 MR. SCHECK:

All right.

482 MR. YAMAUCHI:

--extractions.

483 MR. SCHECK:

But you do allow that you can do a slot-blot?

484 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes. We--we could do a slot-blot and that would be used in troubleshooting should something anomalous come up or something that needs to be troubleshooted.

485 MR. SCHECK:

And if you did a slot-blot before you proceeded with the extraction of DNA, you would have an idea of how much human DNA was in those swatches?

486 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, I would have more information as to that effect.

487 MR. SCHECK:

And if you did a slot-blot, that might have given you some information as to whether or not these Bundy samples you were dealing with were degraded?

488 MR. YAMAUCHI:

If I did a slot-blot it would tell me whether or not there was human DNA there, but it doesn't necessarily tell us the state as far as whether it is degraded or not. It can give you a slight idea, but it doesn't address that issue--

489 MR. SCHECK:

Well, if you--

490 MR. YAMAUCHI:

--completely.

491 MR. SCHECK:

I'm sorry. Are you finished?

492 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, I am.

493 MR. SCHECK:

All right. Well, if do you a slot-blot and you see that there is less human DNA than you would expect just by eyeballing the swatches, that would give you some information that you were dealing with degraded samples?

494 MR. YAMAUCHI:

I'm sorry. Could you ask that question one more time, please?

495 MR. SCHECK:

Sure. If you did a slot-blot and the slot-blot reading showed less human DNA than you would have expected just looking at the swatches, wouldn't that be an indication that the samples were degraded?

496 MR. YAMAUCHI:

A low amount of--of, umm, human DNA, that statement coming from a slot-blot would be an indication that there is a small amount of DNA there.

497 MR. SCHECK:

And on the morning of June 14th you were operating on the theory that the blood drops at Bundy had been deposited within twelve hours of their collection?

498 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for speculation.

499 THE COURT:

Sustained.

500 MR. SCHECK:

Were you operating on the premise on the morning of June 14th that the blood drops at Bundy had been deposited within twelve hours of their collection?

501 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for speculation.

502 THE COURT:

Overruled.

503 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, we can't really speculate as to how old a stain is. It is--just handle all evidence in the same fashion that you would, whether it is possibly there for twelve hours or 24 years. The same procedures and steps are in line.

504 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Yamauchi, are you telling this jury that you would handle a sample that was 24 years old in exactly the same fashion as you would handle a sample that was twelve hours old, as far as you knew?

505 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes, I would.

506 MR. SCHECK:

In other words, as far as you are concerned, degradation and the effects of time plays no role in the way that one handles samples?

507 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, time doesn't necessarily--isn't necessarily the only factor that causes degradation, so we have had good typing results off of samples that are a number of years old, and you always just can't put your money on one thing or another.

508 MR. SCHECK:

Well, let's--

509 MR. YAMAUCHI:

So--

510 MR. SCHECK:

I'm sorry, are you finished?

511 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I'm not.

512 MR. SCHECK:

Okay. Go ahead.

513 MR. YAMAUCHI:

So whether or not you've got a brand new fresh exemplar or an evidence item, you still have to treat them the same. You can't assume that one is old and/or degraded or for whatever reason, because there is too many factors involved for us to know everything about that sample.

514 MR. SCHECK:

Now, Mr. Yamauchi, on the morning of June 14th you had certain information about this case through Dennis Fung, didn't you?

515 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

516 MR. SCHECK:

He had a conversation with you in the evidence processing room? Do you remember that?

517 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

518 MR. SCHECK:

You don't remember your--you don't remember seeing Detective Lange anywhere on the morning of June 14th, right?

519 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, I'm not sure if I saw him that day or not. It just--my memory--it is almost a year ago.

520 MR. SCHECK:

Are you aware of any legal issues that have arisen in the last two days that make it important for you to forget that you ever saw or spoke to Detective Lange on the morning of June 14th?

KEY QUOTE
521 THE COURT:

Sustained, sustained, sustained. The jury is to disregard the implication of that question.

522 MR. SCHECK:

I take it you didn't see Detective Lange anywhere near the evidence processing room or any of the swatches on the morning of June 14th?

523 MR. YAMAUCHI:

No, I don't know.

524 MR. SCHECK:

Uh-huh. Now, in a conversation you had on the morning of June 14th with Dennis Fung he communicated certain things to you that he had learned from the detectives that were investigating this case?

525 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That is where I would assume he got that information from, sure.

526 MR. SCHECK:

Well, didn't he tell you explicitly that he had obtained certain information via or through robbery/homicide?

527 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yeah, he might have said that.

528 MR. SCHECK:

Well, don't your notes specifically say that Dennis Fung told you that Mr. Simpson had a cut on his left hand and you--and he had learned that via robbery/homicide? Didn't you write that down?

529 MR. YAMAUCHI:

That sounds familiar, but let me check my notes to be sure.

530 (Brief pause.)
531 THE COURT:

This will be the last question and answer before we take our break. Do you want to direct his attention to a page?

532 MR. SCHECK:

You found it, didn't you?

533 (No audible response.)
534 MR. SCHECK:

Mr. Yamauchi, you have your notes as to the morning of June 14th written out as to the events in the evidence processing room on something called a "Serology item description sheet," do you not?

535 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

536 MR. SCHECK:

All right. And on the first page of those notes there is a description of the Bundy samples?

537 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

538 MR. SCHECK:

And there is a note in the top part of your page indicating that you learned that Mr. Simpson had cut his left finger on his left hand via robbery/homicide per Dennis Fung?

539 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yeah. I wrote "As per Fung" and then parenthesis "Via RHD O.J.'s cut on left hand."

540 MR. SCHECK:

And "Via RHD" means that that note means, does it not, that Mr. Fung told you that he had learned from the detectives at robbery/homicide that Mr. Simpson had a cut on his left hand?

541 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

542 MR. SCHECK:

One more?

543 THE COURT:

Go ahead.

544 MR. SCHECK:

Did he indicate to you, via the detective from robbery/homicide, that the Rockingham blood drops were expected to be Mr. Simpson's blood?

545 MR. HARMON:

Objection, calls for hearsay.

546 THE COURT:

Overruled.

547 MR. YAMAUCHI:

He indicated there was a blood trail leading away from the scene, and he talked about that cut and it could possibly be linked.

548 MR. SCHECK:

My question had to do with blood drops from Rockingham. Are you with me? Not Bundy.

549 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Blood drops from Rockingham, okay.

550 MR. SCHECK:

All right. You know which item we are talking about?

551 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Yes.

552 MR. SCHECK:

Did Mr. Fung indicate to you, through information that he got from the detectives at robbery/homicide, that they expected that the blood drops at Rockingham would be Mr. Simpson's blood?

553 MR. HARMON:

Objection, vague as to when the conversation occurred.

554 MR. SCHECK:

Talking about the morning on June 14th.

555 THE COURT:

Overruled.

556 MR. YAMAUCHI:

Well, I didn't get Rockingham samples until the next day, I believe.

557 MR. SCHECK:

When you were talking with Mr. Fung on the morning of June 14th did you know that detectives at robbery/homicide had taken a statement from Mr. Simpson earlier that day?

558 MR. HARMON:

Objection, your Honor.

559 THE COURT:

Sustained. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take a recess at this point for fifteen minutes. Please remember all my admonitions to you. Don't discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case. Don't allow anybody to communicate with you, do not conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. We will be in recess for fifteen.

560 MS. CLARK:

Your Honor, we would like to be heard.

561 THE COURT:

When we get back.

562 (Recess.)

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Barry Scheck
Are you aware of any legal issues that have arisen in the last two days that make it important for you to forget that you ever saw or spoke to Detective Lange on the morning of June 14th?
An explosive, barely-veiled accusation that Yamauchi's testimony was being shaped by awareness of the Fuhrman perjury developments; Ito sustained instantly and instructed the jury to disregard the implication, but the suggestion was already in the room.
Barry Scheck
Incidentally, when you were handling the socks last Friday, were you aware that you were also touching the microphone with your gloved hand and then went down and touched the socks?
A moment of live, in-courtroom cross-contamination — Yamauchi admitted he 'could have' touched the microphone with his glove before handling the socks, undermining his insistence that his technique was pristine.
Collin Yamauchi
It is not easy, but if you take the scalpel blade, you can get it in between them and kind of jiggle them apart.
Yamauchi's explanation for how he separated two stuck-together swatches from item 49 using only a scalpel and one hand strains credulity and invites the jury to question whether his glove-free account is accurate.
Collin Yamauchi
Yes. That is what it indicates there.
Yamauchi confirming that the official LAPD validation report — Defense exhibit 1181 — stated he had never gotten a wrong typing result, which Scheck used to show the 1.2,4 discrepancy was invisibly papered over rather than reported as an error.
Collin Yamauchi
Yes, I would.
Yamauchi affirming he would handle a 24-year-old sample in exactly the same way as a 12-hour-old sample, a claim Scheck used to expose the lab's indifference to sample degradation as a factor affecting DNA reliability.

Evidence (8)

Defense 1181
LAPD internal report on Yamauchi's validation study results, stating he correctly typed every sample — right answer or no result, never a wrong answer
discussed; used to impeach Yamauchi's claim that the 1.2,4 typing discrepancy was acceptable and documented
Defense 1183
9-page document concerning CACLD blind trial proficiency studies
marked for identification; shown to witness to refresh recollection; Yamauchi said he had not read it
Defense 1184
8-page article by Dr. William Thompson and Dr. Simon Ford, 'The Meaning of a Match,' critical of forensic DNA typing methods, referencing CACLD study
marked for identification; Yamauchi denied having read it
People's 277
Evidence sampling board showing Yamauchi's swatch-cutting procedure using a scalpel, with photographs of his one-handed technique
discussed; Scheck used it to press Yamauchi on his claim of never touching swatches with his glove and on his use of a plain white swatch rather than a blood-stained one
Defense 1159-H
Defense exhibit shown on screen during testimony (specific contents not detailed in transcript)
displayed
Defense 1159-B
Defense exhibit displayed later in session
displayed
+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (5)

Barry ScheckCollin YamauchiLance A. Ito
Extended battle over the 1.2,4 vs. 1.2,1.3 typing discrepancy on the mock vaginal swab. Yamauchi repeatedly tried to contextualize or explain rather than give yes/no answers; Ito struck several non-responsive answers; Harmon objected repeatedly; Scheck eventually extracted the admissions that the discrepancy existed and was never documented.
grinding and strategic
Barry ScheckCollin Yamauchi
Scheck confronted Yamauchi with the fact that during last Friday's session, while handling the socks as evidence in court, Yamauchi had touched the microphone with his gloved hand before touching the socks. Yamauchi acknowledged this could have happened and that he was aware of it.
revealing
Barry ScheckLance A. Ito
Scheck asked whether Yamauchi was aware of 'legal issues that have arisen in the last two days' making it important to forget Detective Lange's presence on June 14th. Ito sustained three times in rapid succession and told the jury to disregard the implication.
explosive
Barry ScheckCollin Yamauchi
Scheck walked Yamauchi through the slot-blot and yield gel capabilities, exposing that the lab could have tested Bundy swatches for degradation before processing but chose not to, and that Yamauchi had no training on heightened cross-contamination risk with degraded samples.
methodical and damaging
Barry ScheckCollin Yamauchi
Scheck established that Dennis Fung told Yamauchi on June 14th — through information from robbery/homicide — that OJ Simpson had a cut on his left hand, before Yamauchi processed the reference blood sample. Yamauchi's notes confirmed this.
strategic and significant

Light Moments (1)

Barry Scheck
Scheck, searching for an exhibit, told Ito: 'You are testing my short-term memory. That is very dangerous this morning.'

Credibility Attacks (5)

⚔ Collin Yamauchi
prior inconsistent act / undisclosed error
Scheck forced Yamauchi to admit his mock vaginal swab validation test produced a wrong typing result (1.2,4 instead of 1.2,1.3 for the sperm fraction), which was never flagged in any report and was affirmatively contradicted by the LAPD's own validation summary claiming Yamauchi never got a wrong answer.
⚔ Collin Yamauchi
bias / knowledge of suspect
Scheck established that before processing blood evidence on June 14th, Yamauchi had been told by Dennis Fung — sourced from robbery/homicide detectives — that OJ Simpson had a cut on his left hand, a fact that could have subconsciously influenced his handling and interpretation of the reference sample.
⚔ Collin Yamauchi
live impeachment / courtroom conduct
Scheck caught Yamauchi touching a courtroom microphone with his gloved hand and then handling the socks during Friday's session, directly contradicting Yamauchi's insistence that his technique guaranteed no glove-to-evidence contact.
⚔ Collin Yamauchi
training deficiency
Scheck established that Yamauchi had no directed training on articles critical of forensic DNA methods, no training on the heightened cross-contamination risk with degraded samples, no protocol requiring glove changes between items, and no protocol requiring table bleaching — painting a picture of ad hoc self-training.
⚔ LAPD DNA Laboratory
institutional failure
Scheck established that the lab's validation reports falsely certified all-correct results while a documented discrepancy existed; that no uniform swatch-handling protocol was communicated to criminalists like Fung and Mazzola; and that the lab never tested for sample degradation before processing Bundy evidence.

Witness Demeanor

(No audible response.) — twice: once when asked about the LAPD validation report's claim he never got a wrong answer, once when Scheck implied he was concealing memory of Detective Lange
(Brief pause.) — multiple times while Yamauchi searched his notes or records
Repeatedly attempted to explain and contextualize rather than answer yes/no, prompting multiple motions to strike and judicial intervention

Objections

42 objections (22 sustained, 16 overruled)
Proceeding 6212 • 562 utterances • Prosecution witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 MAY 30, 1995 📄 Cross-examination of Collin Ya
MAY 30, 1995 KRT DvH TD