Direct examination of Renee Montgomery (part 3)

📄 Direct examination of Renee Montgomery (part 3) — Tuesday, May 23, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\23\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RENEE-MO.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 80 of 167

◀ Jury entry and exhibit preparation Recess ▶

Witness: Renee Montgomery
Examiner: Rockne Harmon
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, May 23, 1995 • Utterances: 191

DNA analyst Ms. Montgomery walked the jury through D1S80 allele typing results from several key items in the case: socks (consistent with Nicole Brown, excluding Simpson and Goldman), four locations on the glove (mixtures that could not exclude any of the three individuals, with Simpson as the only person among the three carrying the distinctive 25 allele), Nicole Brown's fingernail scrapings (consistent with Brown), and three rear-gate Bundy stains (all typed 24,25 — consistent with Simpson and excluding Nicole Brown as a solo source). The examination was methodical and largely technical, with the prosecutor systematically building an exclusion-inclusion framework tying each stain to one or more of the three reference samples.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

# 2 THE COURT:

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. The record should reflect we have now been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. All parties are again present. All right. Mr. Harmon, you may continue with your direct examination.

# 3 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 4 THE COURT:

All right. Let's proceed.

# 5 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, at this time I would like to have marked as 275-E, for identification, gel number AG2-44 and I will give it to Mr. Fairtlough.

# 6 THE COURT:

All right. 275-E.

# 7 (Brief pause.)

# 8 MR. HARMON:

And we have displayed for the jury People's 262 and 260-A which are respectively the socks results board and the sock photo board.

# 9 MR. HARMON:

Now, Miss Montgomery, could you please describe, skipping over the positive and negative control--could you please describe the samples which are of interest to us in this case.

# 10 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes. These are two samples from the sock. Umm, two different locations. And you could see them--the first one described as b-1 is a single-banded 18 and the second one described as B2 its a single-banded pattern also and that is an 18, 18.

# 11 MR. HARMON:

That is consistent with Nicole Brown?

# 12 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes it is.

# 13 MR. HARMON:

And it is inconsistent with the Defendant, Mr. Simpson?

# 14 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes.

# 15 MR. HARMON:

Inconsistent with Mr. Goldman?

# 16 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes.

# 17 MR. HARMON:

Now, we are just showing some of the film in this case for the jury's edification; is that correct?

# 18 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Right.

# 19 MR. HARMON:

The result board actually lists other D1S80 results which were produced in this case. Are those in this package of film that we have as well?

# 20 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, they are.

# 21 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Okay. Why don't we move on to 275-F, which is gel AG62-65. Could we have the glove result and photo boards, which are People's exhibit 272-A and B.

# 22 (Brief pause.)

# 23 THE COURT:

All right. We will mark the printout from 275-E as 275-E(1).

# 24 (Peo's 275-E(1) for id = photograph)

# 25 MR. HARMON:

Miss Montgomery, could you, while we are getting the board set up, could you please describe the samples that were on this gel that produced the copy of the film which we have labeled 275-F?

# 26 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes. This is DNA extracted from four different locations on the glove and G11--G11 is a mixture and this is--

# 27 MR. HARMON:

How can you tell it is a mixture?

# 28 MS. MONTGOMERY:

There are--you need to see the original or the copy that is going to be printed out. From here it is a little difficult to see the minor contributions, but what you would see is the major banding of a 24 and so that is a major type of a 24, 24 and then you can also see a weaker 25 allele and on this one there is also a weaker 18 allele.

# 29 MR. HARMON:

Could we just use some--let's stay with 18. Could we use a different color or let's sort these out by color. The 18 allele, could you put an arrow to the left of it and then we will change colors and go up to 24 and 25, so could you get it real close there. So you have got a green arrow next to the stain 9G11. That represents the 18 allele?

# 30 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes.

# 31 MR. HARMON:

Now, from the three reference samples who is that consistent with?

# 32 MS. MONTGOMERY:

That is consistent with Nicole Brown. She can't be eliminated as a contributor of that weaker 18 allele.

# 33 MR. HARMON:

How do you know that is a mixture?

# 34 MS. MONTGOMERY:

You can tell it is a mixture for two reasons: First of all, because there are three bands present in the sample. And secondly, because of the relative intensity of the banding pattern. As I stated, that 24 is more intense than either the 18 or the 25. In this sample it appears the 18 and 25 are relatively equal intensity to each other, but yet that 24 is much stronger.

# 35 MR. HARMON:

So what does that mean?

# 36 MS. MONTGOMERY:

That means that there is more than one individual that could have contributed to that sample.

# 37 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And from among the three individuals could you mark the 24 and 25 alleles using different colored arrows, please, to the left. So you are putting a red arrow by--to the left of--

# 38 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Would you like a different.

# 39 MR. HARMON:

--the 24 allele and could you use a different color for the 25 allele.

# 40 (Witness complies.)

# 41 MR. HARMON:

Now, considering the three reference samples that were provided to you in this case that you didn't run on this gel, what--what can you say about the--whether or not those three--three reference types could be contained in the stain at 9G11?

# 42 MS. MONTGOMERY:

None of the individuals, none of the three reference samples, O.J. Simpson, Nicole Brown or Ronald Goldman, could be excluded as a source of this sample.

KEY QUOTE

# 43 MR. HARMON:

And let me ask you that same question about those three people and what is the significance about the weakness of the bands with respect to the 24 allele? Can you say anything more about how these things line up in terms of intensity?

# 44 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Well, you also can--D1S80 was--I mean, DQ-Alpha was done on these samples also and by using both the DQ-Alpha results and the D1S80 results you can sort this out a little further, and--

# 45 MR. HARMON:

I don't think DQ-Alpha was done on this sample, correct?

# 46 MS. MONTGOMERY:

I'm sorry, you are right. DQ-Alpha was not done on this sample.

# 47 MR. HARMON:

So can you say anything more about the relative intensities in terms of the combinations of the three reference samples in this case?

# 48 MS. MONTGOMERY:

I can say who could be the major contributor of the sample and who could be the minor contributor, and I can say of those three individuals none of them could be eliminated as a source of this bloodstain.

# 49 MR. HARMON:

What could be the type of the major contributor in this case, based on your observations on this stain?

# 50 MS. MONTGOMERY:

By looking at lane G11, glove 9, lane G11, the major contributor is a 24 homozygote and then the minor components are an 18 allele and a 25 allele.

# 51 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And from among the three reference types is any one of them a 24 homozygote?

# 52 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes.

# 53 MR. HARMON:

Who is that?

# 54 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Ronald Goldman.

# 55 MR. HARMON:

And is the 25 allele unique to one of the three reference samples in this case?

# 56 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes.

# 57 MR. HARMON:

Who is that?

# 58 MS. MONTGOMERY:

24, 25 is the type of O.J. Simpson.

# 59 MR. HARMON:

So from among those three people, Nicole Brown, Ronald Goldman and Mr. Simpson, Mr. Simpson is the only one that has a 25 allele?

KEY QUOTE

# 60 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Of those three individuals, that's correct.

# 61 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And the population frequency data actually describes how many other people might have the 25 allele?

# 62 MS. MONTGOMERY:

That's correct.

# 63 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Let's move on to G12. Could you describe, before you put any arrows on it, describe the band that you are able to see on the original and the blue copy that appear in 9G12 if you will?

# 64 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes. G12 is also a mixture and from here I'm having a difficult time seeing that--the minor contributor, but the minor type, if you--when you look at the gel you will see an 18 band in the 18 region. Umm, so in this sample the major contributor is a 24 homozygote and the minor contributor has an 18 allele present.

# 65 MR. HARMON:

And are those two types consistent with the two victims in this case, Mr. Goldman and Miss Brown?

# 66 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, they.

# 67 MR. HARMON:

When you say, "Major contributor, minor contributor," are you saying that it is a mixture of those two types?

# 68 MS. MONTGOMERY:

By major and minor I am able to say what the major type is. As far as the minor components, what I can say is an 18 allele is the minor component but that 18 could be an 18 homozygote or it could be a 18, 24.

# 69 MR. HARMON:

So it could be just a one-banded 18 pattern which would be consistent with Nicole Brown?

# 70 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Correct.

# 71 MR. HARMON:

Or there might be another 24 band that is hidden under the 24 band? Is that what you are saying?

# 72 MS. MONTGOMERY:

That's right, or it could be an 18, 24.

# 73 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Can we try to get some arrows in that--let's keep green with the 18, if you will.

# 74 (Witness complies.)

# 75 MR. HARMON:

Can we get that green?

# 76 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Green.

# 77 MR. HARMON:

And then keep the red with the 24 allele.

# 78 (Witness complies.)

# 79 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Let's move over to G13. Will you describe what you see there and then we will discuss it.

# 80 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes. G13 is similar to G11. The interpretation is the same on that sample where it is a mixture, there is more than one band present. There is a major type and there are minor alleles. The major type is a 24, 24 and the minor alleles are an 18 and a 25. And once again, you need to see the printed out copy.

# 81 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Now, let's look back on G11. The results that you have described for G13, are they essentially the same results as you have seen in G11?

# 82 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes.

# 83 MR. HARMON:

Are they different in any way?

# 84 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Umm, the 25 and the 18 are slightly weaker in G13, but in general the same pattern--the same pattern is seen in G13 as G11.

# 85 MR. HARMON:

And would you--strike that. So the comments that you made about G11 would apply to G13 as well?

# 86 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Correct.

# 87 MR. HARMON:

Could we, using the same colors that we used in G11, could we try to get some arrows in there to show where those bands are.

# 88 (Witness complies.)

# 89 MR. HARMON:

Okay. You have marked with a red arrow the 24 allele?

# 90 MS. MONTGOMERY:

This is getting a bit messy.

# 91 MR. HARMON:

Now, you have got the pink arrow on the 25 allele in G13. And then you have marked the 18 allele with the green arrow?

# 92 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Right.

# 93 MR. HARMON:

Once again, in this sample from among the three reference types that were provided to you, Mr. Simpson is the only one that has that 25 allele; is that correct?

# 94 MS. MONTGOMERY:

That's correct.

# 95 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Let's move over to G14, if you will, and describe what you observed in G14.

# 96 MS. MONTGOMERY:

G14--G14 has a major contribution of a 24 homozygote and in the 18 region there is what I call a possible 18. There wasn't a clear distinct band in that region so I wasn't confident to call it a band.

# 97 MR. HARMON:

Can you show us where that is with an arrow?

# 98 (Witness complies.)

# 99 MR. HARMON:

Is there something that is more readily apparent if you actually look at the original and look the copy?

# 100 MS. MONTGOMERY:

From here I can't see anything in that region. When you look at the original gel or the copy of the gel, what you could see is a darkening in that region, but as I stated, it is not clearly defined and I would not call it definitely an 18 band being present.

# 101 MR. HARMON:

Okay. What do you see there in that lane for G14?

# 102 MS. MONTGOMERY:

There is a major--there is a 24 allele present, so the mayor source of the sample is a 24 homozygote.

# 103 MR. HARMON:

And I believe Mr. Sims described, because of that possible trace 18, that one could not exclude Nicole Brown?

# 104 MS. MONTGOMERY:

If that is a band, then no, Nicole Brown could not be eliminated, but as I was saying, I don't feel confident calling it a band, so if it is a band, then she can't be excluded, but since I won't call that a definite band, then that is--

# 105 MR. HARMON:

So from among the three reference types who would--

# 106 MR. BLASIER:

Objection. I don't think she was finished.

# 107 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 108 MS. MONTGOMERY:

So that was--so this one I am able to say what the major type is on the sample. As far as minor contributor, I am unable to say anything about it.

# 109 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Because you are not sure there is one?

# 110 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Exactly.

# 111 MR. HARMON:

Okay. So let's look at what you do see there. Who is not excluded as the source of this stain on G14?

# 112 MS. MONTGOMERY:

I could not eliminate Ronald Goldman as being a possible source since he is a 24 homozygote and the pattern that is seen in G14 is 24, 24.

# 113 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Could we capture that, your Honor, and mark that 275-F(1).

# 114 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 115 (Peo's 275-F(1) for id = photograph)

# 116 MR. HARMON:

I would like to move on--I'm going to display the nail board, your Honor, with those photos at the bottom, the nail kit and the other photos.

# 117 THE COURT:

All right.

# 118 MR. HARMON:

And as well as the Bundy result board. The nail board is People's exhibit 220 and the Bundy result board is 259.

# 119 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 120 MR. HARMON:

And at the same time I would like to have marked as 275-G for identification gel a G293.

# 121 (Brief pause.)

# 122 THE COURT:

Mr. Fairtlough, let me see 220 before you get it up there. Just briefly.

# 123 MR. FAIRTLOUGH:

Yes, your Honor.

# 124 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, do you want to see those photos? That is the one--

# 125 THE COURT:

I just want to make sure my recollection is--yeah. Mr. Bancroft, would you avoid 220, please.

# 126 (Brief pause.)

# 127 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 128 MR. HARMON:

Okay. While Mr. Fairtlough is getting the board set up, could you describe the samples of interest that were provided to you for D1S80 typing in this case?

# 129 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes. These were extracted samples from the fingernail scrapings of Nicole Simpson--Nicole Brown.

# 130 MR. HARMON:

Scrapings and clippings?

# 131 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes.

# 132 MR. HARMON:

And as soon as we get the board up there, we can relate the items, because it doesn't seem like we have enough room there. Why don't we slide the--could you justify in parenthesis and describe the items so the jury can correlate them. What is your 45B number which is labeled fingernail--fingernail 84 and then in parenthesis 45B? What is that?

# 133 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yeah. I will have to look at my notes for that.

# 134 (Brief pause.)

# 135 MS. MONTGOMERY:

45B is the right hand fingernail scrapings.

# 136 MR. HARMON:

What is 46B, your 46B?

# 137 MS. MONTGOMERY:

46B is the left hand fingernail scrapings.

# 138 MR. HARMON:

And what is 45A-1B represent?

# 139 MS. MONTGOMERY:

45A is the right fingernail clippings. 1B refers to nearby blood on the same nail.

# 140 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And would you describe, starting from left to right, 45B, what results did you obtain with the D1S80 marker when you typed your no. 45B?

# 141 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Those were all single-banded patterns of 18 homozygotes.

# 142 MR. HARMON:

That is consistent with Nicole Brown?

# 143 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, it is.

# 144 MR. HARMON:

Could we use--I think we have been using green for the 18 allele. Could you put an arrow for each of the three sample that gave you the sale result, the 18 allele?

# 145 (Witness complies.)

# 146 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Is there any question in your mind that they are the same result for all three of those samples?

# 147 MS. MONTGOMERY:

No.

# 148 MR. HARMON:

Okay. May we capture that, your Honor, as 275-G(1)?

# 149 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 150 (Peo's 275-G(1) for id = photograph)

# 151 MR. HARMON:

And the last--if--board and results, if we can keep the Bundy result board up there and put the Bundy photo board, which is People's exhibit 165 up there, at the same time I would like to have marked as People's 275-H for identification gel a G295.

# 152 (Brief pause.)

# 153 MR. HARMON:

Now, Miss Montgomery, what I would like to talk about is items 115, 116 and 117 so as not to confuse them with photo I.d. Numbers which are in the upper left-hand corner and then just down below it, the items from the rear gate at Bundy.

# 154 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Okay.

# 155 MR. HARMON:

And you performed D1S80 typing on those samples as well?

# 156 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, I did.

# 157 MR. HARMON:

And could you please describe your results and then I will ask you to mark them, if you will.

# 158 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes. These all came back 24, 25, and as you can see--

KEY QUOTE

# 159 MR. HARMON:

We are using red for 24, 25. Why don't you mark 115.

# 160 (Witness complies.)

# 161 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, have we marked 275-H on the record?

# 162 THE COURT:

Yes, a G295.

# 163 MR. HARMON:

Thank you.

# 164 MR. HARMON:

So that is a 24, 25?

# 165 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, it is.

# 166 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And would you move over to 116 and describe the results that you obtained on 116.

# 167 MS. MONTGOMERY:

On 116 it is also a 24, 25.

# 168 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Would you put arrows that show where those bands are.

# 169 (Witness complies.)

# 170 MR. HARMON:

Okay. And on the 117, the rear gate stain, could you describe the results and put arrows to show where they are.

# 171 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, the same results were obtained with sample 117 and that is a 24 allele and a 25. (Witness complies.)

# 172 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Are those results--strike that. Is 115 consistent with Mr. Simpson's D1S80 type?

# 173 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, it is.

# 174 MR. HARMON:

Is 116 consistent with Mr. Simpson's D1S80 type?

# 175 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, it is.

# 176 MR. HARMON:

Is 117 consistent with Mr. Simpson's D1S80 type?

# 177 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, it is.

# 178 MR. HARMON:

Are those three types, three results, 115, 116, 117, are they consistent with one another?

# 179 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes, they are.

# 180 MR. HARMON:

Are all three of those results inconsistent with having come from Ronald Goldman alone?

# 181 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Well, yes, because by using--by looking at the D1S80 results and also by looking at the DQ-Alpha results, there is no indication that a mixture is present here and so on this the type of the individual will be a 24, 25.

# 182 MR. HARMON:

And Nicole Brown excluded as a source of those stains?

# 183 MS. MONTGOMERY:

Yes. There was no 18 allele detected on any of these stains.

# 184 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, could we capture that as 275-H(1)?

# 185 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 186 (Peo's 275-H(1) for id = photograph)

# 187 MR. HARMON:

Now, did anything happen in the course of your testing on all the samples that you have tested in this case that undermines your confidence in the results that both you and Mr. Sims have been presenting?

# 188 MS. MONTGOMERY:

No.

# 189 MR. HARMON:

And as I mentioned, there are a number of other films that have not been shown to the jury?

# 190 MS. MONTGOMERY:

That's correct.

# 191 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Thanks, Miss Montgomery. I have no further questions, your Honor.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Ms. Montgomery

None of the individuals, none of the three reference samples, O.J. Simpson, Nicole Brown or Ronald Goldman, could be excluded as a source of this sample.

Establishes the glove stain G11 as a DNA mixture consistent with all three principals — a key prosecution argument that Simpson's blood is present on the glove.

Rockne Harmon

So from among those three people, Nicole Brown, Ronald Goldman and Mr. Simpson, Mr. Simpson is the only one that has a 25 allele?

Highlights that the 25 allele detected in the glove mixtures (G11, G13) is uniquely traceable to Simpson among the reference samples.

Ms. Montgomery

These all came back 24, 25, and as you can see—

Rear-gate Bundy stains 115, 116, and 117 all type as 24,25 — consistent with Simpson's profile — corroborating prosecution's blood-trail narrative.

Ms. Montgomery

I don't feel confident calling it a band, so if it is a band, then she can't be excluded, but since I won't call that a definite band, then that is—

Montgomery distinguishes herself from Sims on G14 by declining to definitively call a faint 18 band, showing scientific caution that slightly differs from a prior witness's interpretation.

Evidence (15)

People's 262

Socks results board (D1S80)

displayed to jury

People's 260-A

Sock photo board

displayed to jury

People's 275-E

Gel AG2-44 — D1S80 sock typing film

marked for identification

People's 275-E(1)

Photograph/printout of sock gel

captured and marked

People's 272-A

Glove result board

displayed to jury

People's 272-B

Glove photo board

displayed to jury

+ 9 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

Rockne Harmon•Ms. Montgomery

Discussion of G14 where Montgomery declines to definitively call a faint 18 band, departing slightly from Sims's interpretation, limiting the Nicole Brown exclusion claim for that glove location.

careful/scientific

Robert Blasier•Ms. Montgomery•Lance A. Ito

Blasier objected when Harmon cut off Montgomery mid-answer about the G14 possible-18 band; Ito upheld it and allowed her to finish, clarifying she could not call a minor contributor on G14.

procedural

Rockne Harmon•Ms. Montgomery

Harmon asked Montgomery whether anything in her testing undermined confidence in any results she or Sims had presented; she answered flatly 'No.'

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Ms. Montgomery

While annotating the gel with colored arrows, Montgomery remarked unprompted: 'This is getting a bit messy.'

Witness Demeanor

(Witness complies.) — repeated multiple times when asked to mark gel lanes with colored arrows

Montgomery self-corrected when she mistakenly said DQ-Alpha was run on a glove sample, immediately acknowledged Harmon's correction

Objections

1 objections (1 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 6148 • 191 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103