Direct examination of Gary Sims (afternoon, part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Gary Sims (afternoon, part 1) — Wednesday, May 17, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\17\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-GARY-SIM.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 76 of 167

◀ Exhibit logistics Sidebar: item 117 RFLP ▶

Witness: Gary Sims
Examiner: Rockne Harmon
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, May 17, 1995 • Utterances: 202

Gary Sims, a DNA analyst from the California DOJ lab, continued his direct examination presenting PCR DNA results from Bundy crime scene blood stains. Stains from the walkway (items 47, 48, 50, 52) and rear gate (items 115, 116, 117) all matched OJ Simpson's genetic profile and excluded both victims. The jury was walked through RFLP autorads on a light box showing matches between the Rockingham sock and Nicole Brown's reference sample, and between glove stains and both victims' reference samples.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

# 2 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. All right. Let the record reflect we have been joined by all the members of our jury panel. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

# 3 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Sims, would you resume the witness stand, please.

Gary Sims, the witness on the stand at the time of the noon recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

# 4 THE COURT:

Good afternoon again, Mr. Sims.

# 5 MR. SIMS:

Good afternoon, your Honor.

# 6 THE COURT:

You are reminded, sir, you are still under oath. And Mr. Harmon, you may continue with your direct examination.

# 7 MR. HARMON:

Thank you, your Honor. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. HARMON

# 8 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, let's move on to the testing that you performed on stains that were collected from the Bundy crime scene, if you will, and I would like to display exhibit 165, the photo board. Will that one work over here or do we need it--okay. And then the exhibit result board, exhibit 259.

# 9 (Brief pause.)

# 10 THE COURT:

Mr. Fairtlough. I think, actually 1492, it is touching the screen. Can you pull it out just a little?

# 11 (Brief pause.)

# 12 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, Mr. Fairtlough.

# 13 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, did your laboratory perform DNA testing on numerous items that were collected at the Bundy crime scene?

# 14 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 15 MR. HARMON:

Starting at the top, did your laboratory perform any DNA testing on item no. 47, which was associated with the Bundy walkway, the stain closest to the victims in this case?

# 16 MR. SIMS:

Yes. We performed PCR, DQ-Alpha and D1S80 tests.

# 17 MR. HARMON:

And what were the results of those tests?

# 18 MR. SIMS:

The results for DQ-Alpha were 1.1, 1.2; for D1S80, 24, 25.

# 19 MR. HARMON:

And are those results consistent with any of the three reference samples in this case that were provided to you?

# 20 MR. SIMS:

Yes, they are.

# 21 MR. HARMON:

And whom are they consistent with?

# 22 MR. SIMS:

They are consistent with the Defendant, Mr. Simpson.

# 23 MR. HARMON:

Are they inconsistent with Nicole Brown?

# 24 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 25 MR. HARMON:

Are they inconsistent with Ronald Goldman?

# 26 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 27 MR. HARMON:

Is there any question about their inconsistency with Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown?

# 28 MR. SIMS:

There is no question.

KEY QUOTE

# 29 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Could you, if you can, reach up there and remove the cover for--I don't think so.

# 30 MR. SIMS:

I think we need the Lakers to do this one.

KEY QUOTE

# 31 (Brief pause.)

# 32 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Fairtlough, let's leave it there, and 1492, as we progress, we will move it up.

# 33 MR. HARMON:

Is that the same 25 allele with the D1S80 genetic marker that you observed on the stains, those three stains, near the notch area of the glove that was recovered at Rockingham?

# 34 MR. SIMS:

Yes. They both have the 25 allele.

# 35 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor--excuse me, your Honor. Logistically it would be better, I would stipulate, why doesn't he just pull all the matches he is going to pull off the board, then put it up so that there is no problem with the jury and we don't have to go through that.

# 36 THE COURT:

Mr. Harmon, any objection?

# 37 MR. HARMON:

Pull them all off, Mr. Sims.

# 38 (Witness complies.)

# 39 THE COURT:

All right. Let's parade it back up.

# 40 (Brief pause.)

# 41 THE COURT:

Thank you.

# 42 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, if our chart, if our result chart is correct, exhibit 259 Cellmark obtained as DQ-Alpha type 1.1, 1.2 and polymarker inclusion which described Mr. Simpson, the Defendant, as the possible source of this stain. Are your results corroborative of those results?

# 43 MR. SIMS:

Yes, they are consistent.

# 44 MR. HARMON:

And you obtained the same DQ-Alpha result as they did?

# 45 MR. SIMS:

Yes, we did.

# 46 MR. HARMON:

Now, is this one of the stains where one or the other of the labs extracted the DNA and shared it with the other lab?

# 47 MR. SIMS:

No. We sampled separate swatches or separate swatch material.

# 48 MR. HARMON:

Okay. So your results were produced from a swatch?

# 49 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 50 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Let's move to no. 48. You performed DQ-Alpha, D1S80 testing on item no. 48 from the Bundy walkway, the next one down the walkway; is that correct?

# 51 MR. SIMS:

Yes, we did.

# 52 MR. HARMON:

Same result as item 47?

# 53 MR. SIMS:

Yes. Again the DQ-Alpha type was 1.1, 1.2 and the D1S80 type was 24, 25.

# 54 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Moving--and again, that result is corroborative of the Cellmark results?

# 55 MR. SIMS:

Yes, it is. We obtained the same DQ-Alpha.

# 56 MR. HARMON:

And it is identical with 47?

# 57 MR. SIMS:

It is the same result.

# 58 MR. HARMON:

Item no. 49, the next one down the walkway, it is in the lower photograph on the left-hand corner of exhibit 165. What results did you--I'm sorry, that is a Cellmark result.

# 59 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 60 MR. HARMON:

Let's move down to item no. 50, the next one after 49, along the Bundy walkway, which is depicted in the upper left-hand, second one from the left on the photo board. What results did you obtain from that stain?

# 61 MR. SIMS:

Our laboratory detected DQ-Alpha type 1.1, 1.2; the D1S80 type was 24, 25.

# 62 MR. HARMON:

And that is the same result that you obtained on 48 and 47?

# 63 MR. SIMS:

Yes, it is.

# 64 MR. HARMON:

And did you obtain the same DQ-Alpha as Cellmark obtained on different swatches?

# 65 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 66 MR. HARMON:

And did your results from item no. 50, along the Bundy walkway, did they exclude the two victims in this case?

# 67 MR. SIMS:

Yes, they did exclude the two victims.

# 68 MR. HARMON:

As did the results this item 48, did they exclude the two victims in this case?

# 69 MR. SIMS:

Yes, they did.

# 70 MR. HARMON:

Moving down, farther down the farthest stain along the walkway, item no. 52, which is in the photograph that I'm pointing to here, what sort of testing did you do on that stain?

# 71 MR. SIMS:

On that stain we tested for DQ-Alpha and D1S80.

# 72 MR. HARMON:

You obtained the same results as did you on 50 and 48 and 47?

# 73 MR. SIMS:

Yes, we did.

# 74 MR. HARMON:

And whom were you able to exclude?

# 75 MR. SIMS:

We were able to excluded the two victims in this case.

# 76 MR. HARMON:

And whom were you able--were you not able to exclude?

# 77 MR. SIMS:

We were not able to exclude the Defendant.

# 78 MR. HARMON:

And moving along to at a later point, you have already described how you sampled items from the nail kit from Nicole Brown?

# 79 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 80 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Let's just reflect back on the items that you sampled and describe--because the numbering system sometimes gets confusing--could you relate your item numbers to the LAPD item numbers which are 84 and 84B?

# 81 MR. SIMS:

Yes. Our item number was 46B for their item no. 84A which is the left hand material, and then our no. 45A was the--45 was our number for their no. 84B, the right hand material.

# 82 MR. HARMON:

And just to get a little more descriptive here, 45A-1B--

# 83 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 84 MR. HARMON:

--is that the blood that was closely associated with whatever that was that you thought might very well have been tissue?

# 85 MR. SIMS:

Yes. That is that blood next to that area.

# 86 MR. HARMON:

And that you determined was not tissue?

# 87 MR. SIMS:

That's correct.

# 88 MR. HARMON:

And go on to the next item and just so we can relate it to what you observed or what you examined.

# 89 MR. SIMS:

Yes. That would be which item now?

# 90 MR. HARMON:

Well, 45B is the scrapings from the right hand?

# 91 MR. SIMS:

Yes, 45B, those are the right hand scrapings.

# 92 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Did you obtain--I'm sorry, go ahead. Did you obtain the same results from all three items, all three stains that you tested from the nail clippings from the left hand, the nail scrapings from the right hand, and the nail clippings from the right hand?

# 93 MR. SIMS:

Yes. Those were tested for D1S80 by Renee Montgomery and she obtained the same result for all three samples.

# 94 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Will you describe whether or not any of the three reference types that were provided to you were excluded as the possible source of that stain?

# 95 MR. SIMS:

Yes. Two of the reference samples were excluded. That would be the reference sample from Ronald Goldman and from the Defendant, Mr. Simpson.

# 96 MR. HARMON:

So you were not able to exclude Nicole Brown as the source of the scrapings that were in the bindle from either the left hand; is that right?

# 97 MR. SIMS:

That's correct.

# 98 MR. HARMON:

Or the right hand?

# 99 MR. SIMS:

That's correct.

# 100 MR. HARMON:

Is that correct--or the item that you have described as 45A-1B, which is from the right hand clippings; is that correct?

# 101 MR. SIMS:

That's correct.

# 102 MR. HARMON:

Are your results from the three items, from the nail clippings and scrapings from the left hand and the right hand, are they corroborative of the results that are listed for Cellmark on the result board?

# 103 MR. SIMS:

Yes. They are consistent in that Nicole Brown would not be excluded as the source of those items.

# 104 MR. HARMON:

And how many genetic markers, if you combine the Cellmark testing on the three items from the nail clippings and scrapings with the D1S80 marker, how many genetic markers were tested in order to try to demonstrate that Nicole Brown could not be the source of what was under her fingernails or on her fingernail?

# 105 MR. SCHECK:

I would object to the word "combine."

# 106 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 107 MR. HARMON:

How many genetic markers if you counted, if Cellmark's description, if the description of their result is accurate, how many markers, genetic markers were tested in order to determine whether Nicole Brown could or could not be the source of the blood under her fingernails or on her fingernails in one instance?

# 108 MR. SIMS:

There would be a total of seven genetic markers because there would be five from polymarker, DQ-Alpha would make six and D1S80 would make seven.

# 109 MR. HARMON:

Okay. The last three items on the result board, 115, 116 and 117. They are described as being on the rear gate at Bundy?

# 110 MR. SIMS:

Yes.

# 111 MR. HARMON:

And those are reflected in the photographs labeled 115, 116 and 117. What sorts of tests did you subject those three stains to?

# 112 MR. SIMS:

May I refer to my notes?

# 113 MR. HARMON:

Sure.

# 114 MR. SIMS:

(Witness complies.) Those three samples from the rear gate have been subjected to three PCR tests and we are also currently running an RFLP test on one of them.

# 115 MR. HARMON:

What were the results of the PCR test on those samples?

# 116 (No audible response.)

# 117 MR. HARMON:

Strike that. Preliminarily, did you get the same results for the PCR tests that you subjected those three samples to?

# 118 MR. SIMS:

Yes, all three gave the same results.

# 119 MR. HARMON:

What are those results?

# 120 MR. SIMS:

The results are that the DQ-Alpha type was 1.1, 1.2. The D1S80 type was 24, 25.

# 121 MR. HARMON:

And why don't you remove those covers, Mr. Sims.

# 122 (Witness complies.)

# 123 MR. HARMON:

Go ahead. Are those results consistent with not being from Nicole Brown?

# 124 MR. SIMS:

Yes. By those results we would exclude Nicole Brown.

# 125 MR. HARMON:

And would you also exclude Ronald Goldman?

# 126 MR. SIMS:

Yes, we would also exclude Ronald Goldman.

# 127 MR. HARMON:

And from among the three reference samples provided to you, were you able to exclude the Defendant in this case?

# 128 MR. SIMS:

No, we could not.

# 129 MR. HARMON:

Now, I have asked you this before, but I want to ask you this again. Are those DQ-Alpha and D1S80 results together consistent with being from an offspring, a child of Nicole Brown and the Defendant?

# 130 MR. SIMS:

No, they are not.

# 131 MR. HARMON:

They could not be from a child of Nicole Brown and the Defendant?

# 132 MR. SIMS:

No, they could not.

# 133 MR. HARMON:

Let's go back to the top again, and if you would, I would like to ask you a general question about all the stains that you have described. Were substrate controls tested, submitted to the same process that the evidence stains were, on items that are on this board from the Bundy crime scene?

# 134 MR. SIMS:

By that you mean 47, 48, 50 and 52, as well as the lower items?

# 135 MR. HARMON:

Yes. Let's separate out the nail clippings first.

# 136 MR. SIMS:

Okay. For those items, 47, 48, 50 and 52, along with 115, 116 and 117, we also tested substrate controls in both of the PCR systems.

# 137 MR. HARMON:

And did all of those controls test clean or not produce any sort of DNA type in any of the tests?

# 138 MR. SIMS:

They were all negative.

# 139 MR. HARMON:

They were all negative. What about the nail clippings which are described as 84 and B, the three samples that you actually tested, was it possible to obtain a substrate control?

# 140 MR. SIMS:

There would not be what we would consider a substrate control for those types of samples.

# 141 MR. HARMON:

Why is that?

# 142 MR. SIMS:

Well, because this is material from under the fingernails and one does not obtain a clean area from that kind of sample, and particularly in a case like this where all the ones we saw had some blood associated with them.

# 143 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Now, does that in any way, the absence of a substrate control for the nail clip items, does that in any way undermine your confidence in the results that you have just presented to the jury?

# 144 MR. SIMS:

No.

# 145 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, this would be a point to move the light box in, if that would be okay.

# 146 THE COURT:

All right.

# 147 (Brief pause.)

# 148 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, with the Court's permission, I would like Mr. Sims to display on the light box exhibits 269-A through i.

# 149 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 150 MR. HARMON:

And at the same time, so that the jury may orient themselves, display on the elmo 269-C, one which is one of those--it is the first autorad that we actually displayed that we have--

# 151 THE COURT:

With the arrows.

# 152 MR. HARMON:

--marked with the arrows.

# 153 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 154 (Brief pause.)

# 155 THE COURT:

All right. Do you need Mr. Sims to step down?

# 156 MR. HARMON:

Yes, please.

# 157 (Brief pause.)

# 158 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, for the record, just so it is clear, these are copies; not the originals.

# 159 MR. HARMON:

We can substitute the originals.

# 160 THE COURT:

Let's proceed.

# 161 MR. HARMON:

Okay. We are just waiting to get 269-C(1). Jonathan, why don't you get 270-A(1) and 271-A(1) as well.

# 162 (Brief pause.)

# 163 MR. HARMON:

Okay. So we can put up on the elmo 269-C(1). Have we have got everything?

# 164 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, we are going to project 269-C(1) and I just want you to tell the jury what is on there and we will display it as you put the arrows on it so they can correlate the samples, if you would. Okay. Now, this is one of several autorads and the arrows point to the match between which samples?

# 165 MR. SIMS:

The samples that match are the Nicole Brown reference sample and the sock 13A stain sample.

# 166 MR. HARMON:

And the complete set of autorads shows the complete set of genetic marker tests that were done on this gel that so the match between the sock and Nicole Brown; is that right?

# 167 MR. SIMS:

Yes. This is--you will recall this is all involving the sock. The sock also appears on some additional--on one additional gel, that would be a second set of autorads.

# 168 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, this would be the point that we can all step back and let the jury come through.

# 169 THE COURT:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, starting with juror no. 1 and take your time, as much time as you need.

# 170 (The jurors view the exhibits.)

# 171 THE COURT:

And Miss Clark, Mr. Cochran, approach, please.

# 172 (A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)

# 173 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

# 174 (The jurors continue to view the exhibits.)

# 175 THE COURT:

All right. The record should reflect that all the jury members have had the opportunity to view the autorads with regards to LAPD item 13A.

# 176 MR. HARMON:

Your Honor, next I would like to--to remove exhibit 269-A through I from the light box and place 270-A through h on the light box, and then 270-A(1) on the elmo.

# 177 THE COURT:

All right. Proceed.

# 178 MR. HARMON:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 179 (Brief pause.)

# 180 MR. HARMON:

Mr. Sims, after you finish putting them up there, if you could just briefly describe the samples that are on there to get the jury oriented to your autorads that we put up there.

# 181 (Brief pause.)

# 182 MR. SIMS:

For this gel or membrane I again put the three reference samples on this particular gel. There is also an additional lane that has the sock, the same stain that you saw on the previous set, and now I have also added stain G3 from the glove to this particular gel, so there is some duplication of the sock as far as some of the loci that were examined.

# 183 THE COURT:

Mr. Harmon.

# 184 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 185 MR. HARMON:

Can we have the jury view the autorads, your Honor?

# 186 THE COURT:

All right. Juror no. 1.

# 187 (The jurors view the exhibits.)

# 188 THE COURT:

All right. The record should reflect that all the jurors have had the opportunity to review that exhibit as well as each of the autorads. Mr. Harmon.

# 189 MR. HARMON:

Okay. Finally, if we remove 270, the 270 series, a through h, and place the 271-A through--I can't remember where we ended up with that one, your Honor. Is that e? A through e.

# 190 (Brief pause.)

# 191 MR. HARMON:

And can we put on the elmo 271-A(1)?

# 192 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 193 (Brief pause.)

# 194 MR. HARMON:

And Mr. Sims, could you look up at the projection screen there and just get the jury oriented. Let's talk about the red arrows. What do those show a match between?

# 195 MR. SIMS:

The red arrows show a match between the reference sample from Nicole Brown and two of the bands in the lane which has "glove G1 stain."

KEY QUOTE

# 196 MR. HARMON:

The green arrows, what do they show?

# 197 MR. SIMS:

The green arrows show the match between the band for Mr. Goldman's reference sample and two of the other two bands in the glove G1 stain.

# 198 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 199 MR. HARMON:

Could we have the jury view those autorads, your Honor?

# 200 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 201 (The jurors view the exhibits.)

# 202 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, while the jury is looking could I approach with Mr. Harmon for a second?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Gary Sims

There is no question.

Emphatic statement that walkway blood stains were inconsistent with both victims, leaving only Simpson as the possible source.

Gary Sims

The red arrows show a match between the reference sample from Nicole Brown and two of the bands in the lane which has 'glove G1 stain.'

Direct visual demonstration to the jury linking Nicole Brown's DNA to a stain on the Rockingham glove.

Gary Sims

No, they could not.

Response confirming rear gate blood could not be from a child of Nicole Brown and OJ Simpson — preemptively closing off a defense alternative theory.

Gary Sims

I think we need the Lakers to do this one.

Rare moment of levity during otherwise dense technical testimony, referencing the height needed to reach the exhibit board.

Evidence (11)

People's 165

Photo board of Bundy crime scene stain locations

displayed to orient jury

People's 259

DNA result board comparing DOJ and Cellmark findings

displayed and referenced throughout

LAPD Item 47

Blood stain on Bundy walkway, closest to victims

PCR DQ-Alpha and D1S80 testing results presented — consistent with Simpson, excluded both victims

LAPD Item 48

Blood stain on Bundy walkway

same PCR results as item 47 — consistent with Simpson

LAPD Item 50

Blood stain on Bundy walkway

same PCR results — consistent with Simpson, excluded both victims

LAPD Item 52

Farthest blood stain along Bundy walkway

same PCR results — excluded both victims, could not exclude Simpson

+ 5 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

Barry Scheck•Rockne Harmon•Lance A. Ito

Scheck pragmatically suggested Sims remove all exhibit covers at once rather than one at a time to avoid logistical delays; Harmon agreed and the court accommodated.

cooperative

Rockne Harmon•Gary Sims

Harmon walked through each Bundy walkway stain in sequence (47, 48, 50, 52) eliciting the same result each time — consistent with Simpson, excluding both victims — building a cumulative and repetitive rhetorical weight.

strategic

Rockne Harmon•Gary Sims

Harmon asked directly whether rear gate blood could be from a child of Nicole Brown and OJ Simpson; Sims confirmed it could not, preemptively neutralizing a potential defense alternative.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Gary Sims

When asked to reach up and remove a cover from the high exhibit board, Sims quipped 'I think we need the Lakers to do this one.'

Witness Demeanor

(Witness complies.) — repeated stage direction showing Sims methodically following Harmon's instructions throughout

(No audible response.) — brief hesitation before answering on rear gate PCR results, prompting Harmon to rephrase

Objections

1 objections (1 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 6081 • 202 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103