📄 Housekeeping — Monday, May 15, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAY\15\HOUSEKEEPING.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 74 of 167

Housekeeping

Date: Monday, May 15, 1995 • Utterances: 32
Defense attorney Peter Neufeld raises two housekeeping matters: first, getting a document admitted as a court exhibit (Defense 1158) related to DQ-Alpha typing by Fung and Mazzola; second, an ongoing dispute about how to calculate and present DNA frequency statistics for mixed stains. The parties and Judge Ito negotiate a schedule for Dr. Robin Cotton to complete her testimony, with a plan to allow her time to run aggregate frequency calculations using the NRC method before concluding her appearance.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. Back on the record. I'm sorry. Mr. Neufeld.

3 MR. NEUFELD:

Just two very brief matters of housekeeping, your Honor. One is, I would like to have made a Court's exhibit that document that I showed the Court as a good faith basis for asking about Fung and Mazzola's DQ-Alpha typing.

4 THE COURT:

Certainly. We'll make that Defense exhibit 1158.

5 (Deft's 1158 for id = document)
6 THE COURT:

Out of the presence. Starting my four hundred and first page of notes.

7 MR. NEUFELD:

And one other matter, your Honor, is that we still have this problem with the frequencies on the mixed stains. I'm told by Dr. Thompson that although he offered to meet with the other parties at lunch time, that offer was rejected. And we have this problem of these numbers. Now, you heard and you received the numbers that Dr. Thompson came up with simply following the NRC method, which is to aggregate the frequencies from the discovery that they gave us.

8 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Neufeld, let me cut to the chase. Mr. Clarke, what's the prognosis of getting together and seeing if we can agree upon the aggregate numbers?

9 MR. CLARKE:

I just didn't hear the last part, your Honor.

10 THE COURT:

That we can agree on the aggregated numbers.

11 MR. CLARKE:

That--what I've been waiting for is, if the Defense will offer us a set of numbers--and they've done that as to DQ-Alpha on the steering wheel I believe--we will be glad to review them. It hasn't gone any further than that. And I think to say that I rejected an opportunity to meet with the Defense is a bit funny since there's simply a lot going on at the moment. But yes, if they will offer us some numbers, we will be happy to look at it.

12 THE COURT:

Well, the problem is, it's your number. So you need to offer it. But using this methodology, when do you think you can get us some numbers or similar methodology?

13 MR. CLARKE:

Okay. Under--and I would like to address again the Court about that manner and I don't know if the Court wants to take that up--manner, not matter. Manner of calculation. Does the Court wish to take that up now or following the redirect, recross, et cetera? Well, Dr. Cotton--maybe I can short-circuit. Dr. Cotton has told me, and although we don't agree that this is what should be done, that this method could be done I believe in about an hour or--

14 DR. COTTON:

Hour to an hour and a half.

15 MR. CLARKE:

Hour to an hour and a half. She has to sit down, but we would like to address you about the propriety of what frequency or what approach to do, and we have to do that yet.

16 THE COURT:

Okay. I would suggest then that we continue with the redirect examination and recross. And your indication to me, if I recollect correctly from last week, is that Dr. Cotton will reappear later in the case.

17 MR. CLARKE:

That's possible that may not occur. Now, counsel for the Defense also indicated that perhaps there would be no objection to Mr. Sims making some of these calculations across the markers. That may or may not solve that. I don't know. But the answer is, Dr. Cotton will be available. Whether she's--there's a need to recall her or not--

18 THE COURT:

I would like to conclude Dr. Cotton for all purposes tomorrow if not sooner.

KEY QUOTE
19 MR. CLARKE:

All right. One of the problems is, the Court did not allow Dr. Cotton to recalculate--not recalculate, but calculate the frequencies across even the Department of Justice numbers. So if that comes to pass, then obviously she will be returning, if the foundation has to be laid.

20 THE COURT:

Okay. All right.

21 MR. NEUFELD:

Just as to these numbers then, your Honor--I mean, I know Dr. Cotton said she had to be out of here by Wednesday afternoon. As you can tell, I'm finished with my cross-examination now. So that's not a problem. But I definitely want to leave with the jury during this visit of Dr. Cotton's a sense of just how common these frequencies are.

22 THE COURT:

Well, let's see if we can do this though. If Dr. Cotton says that she can do this calculation in an hour to an hour and a half, let's see if we can't conclude the redirect, the recross, allow her the remainder of the day and the evening to do these calculations, come back tomorrow morning and see where we are. Let's see if we can do that.

23 MR. NEUFELD:

That's certainly fine. Thank you, your Honor.

24 MR. CLARKE:

Can I just have a quick moment, your Honor?

25 THE COURT:

Sure.

26 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
27 THE COURT:

But let's see if we can finish this afternoon with everything except those numbers.

28 MR. CLARKE:

Your Honor, it may make more sense that--particularly in view of the fact that Dr. Cotton is not going to be allowed to testify now about the Department of Justice frequencies, that we will want to bring her back for that purpose. And therefore, can we take care of all of the frequency matter when there's more time to address it appropriately?

29 THE COURT:

All right. Well, let's see how far we get today.

30 MR. CLARKE:

All right.

31 THE COURT:

All right. Let's have the jurors.

32 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Peter Neufeld
I definitely want to leave with the jury during this visit of Dr. Cotton's a sense of just how common these frequencies are.
Reveals the defense strategy: not just challenging the math, but using the corrected numbers to argue the DNA evidence is far less incriminating than the prosecution presented.
Lance A. Ito
Starting my four hundred and first page of notes.
Offhand remark illustrating the extraordinary length of this trial — 401 pages of judicial notes.
George Clarke
To say that I rejected an opportunity to meet with the Defense is a bit funny since there's simply a lot going on at the moment.
Clarke deflects Neufeld's accusation that the prosecution refused to cooperate on the frequency dispute, acknowledging the chaos of an active trial.
Lance A. Ito
I would like to conclude Dr. Cotton for all purposes tomorrow if not sooner.
Judge asserting scheduling pressure to move the case along, a recurring tension with complex DNA testimony.

Evidence (1)

Defense 1158
Document used by Neufeld as good-faith basis for questioning Fung and Mazzola about DQ-Alpha typing
admitted as court exhibit

Notable Exchanges (2)

Peter NeufeldGeorge ClarkeLance A. Ito
Three-way negotiation over who bears responsibility for producing corrected DNA frequency numbers. Ito cuts through the blame-shifting: 'The problem is, it's your number. So you need to offer it.'
strategic
George ClarkeDr. Robin Cotton
Clarke consults Cotton mid-argument about how long the NRC-method frequency recalculation would take; Cotton answers directly from the gallery — 'Hour to an hour and a half.'
procedural

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito
Judge Ito casually notes he is 'starting my four hundred and first page of notes' — deadpan acknowledgment of the trial's absurd length.

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 6044 • 32 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 MAY 15, 1995 📄 Housekeeping
MAY 15, 1995 KRT DvH TD