📄 Direct examination of Dr. Robin Cotton (morning, part 2) — Thursday, May 11, 1995
Address:
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TRIAL
▲ Day 72 of 167

Direct examination of Dr. Robin Cotton (morning, part 2)

Witness: Dr. Robin Cotton
Examiner: George Clarke
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, May 11, 1995 • Utterances: 214
George Clarke continues direct examination of DNA expert Dr. Robin Cotton, covering PCR test results from Nicole Brown Simpson's nail clippings/scrapings (all consistent with Nicole, excluding Simpson and Goldman), a contamination anomaly in the reagent blank for item no. 7 (Rockingham driveway stain), substrate controls from the Bundy crime scene, and DNA testing of the Bronco steering wheel (item 29), which showed a mixture consistent with both OJ Simpson and Nicole Brown while excluding Ronald Goldman.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, counsel. Mr. Clarke, would you continue.

3 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
4 MR. CLARKE:

Thank you, your Honor.

5 MR. CLARKE:

Dr. Cotton, with regard to 84-a, and let's start there, Nicole Brown Simpson's left nail clippings--I'm sorry, left nail--

6 THE COURT:

Start again.

7 MR. CLARKE:

Let me try again, your Honor.

8 THE COURT:

Please.

9 MR. CLARKE:

With regard to no. 84-a the left nail clippings and scrapings, did you test that particular item?

10 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

11 MR. CLARKE:

And did you observe that or was it tested using PCR?

12 DR. COTTON:

Yes, it was.

13 MR. CLARKE:

With what results?

14 DR. COTTON:

We are now on 84-a?

15 MR. CLARKE:

Yes.

16 DR. COTTON:

Okay. The results from the PCR testing on 84-a are consistent with Nicole Brown Simpson and exclude Ronald Goldman and Mr. Simpson.

17 MR. CLARKE:

All right. And that was at again six genetic markers?

18 DR. COTTON:

That's right.

19 MR. CLARKE:

All right. Your Honor, with the Court's permission as to that item, the left nail clippings and scrapings, I'm going to ask for permission to remove the covers.

20 THE COURT:

Yes.

21 (Brief pause.)
22 MR. CLARKE:

Turning your attention now to what is marked 84-a, the right nail clippings and scrapings from Nicole Brown, did you also perform testing on that item?

23 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

24 MR. CLARKE:

With what result?

25 DR. COTTON:

They are consistent with Nicole Brown and they exclude Mr. Goldman and Mr. Simpson.

26 MR. CLARKE:

At the same six different markers?

27 DR. COTTON:

That's right.

28 MR. CLARKE:

May I ask for the same permission, your Honor?

29 THE COURT:

Proceed.

30 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
31 MR. CLARKE:

Does that mean, Dr. Cotton, that you obtained the exact same results for 84-a as you did for 84-b, the clipping?

32 DR. COTTON:

It does.

33 MR. CLARKE:

And then lastly, with regard to this item, 84-b, referring your attention to the right scrapings, did you also test those using PCR?

34 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

35 MR. CLARKE:

With what results?

36 DR. COTTON:

They are consistent with Nicole Brown and Mr. Simpson and Mr. Goldman are excluded.

37 MR. CLARKE:

And were these the exact same results as in the earlier two nail clippings and scrapings results?

38 DR. COTTON:

They are.

39 MR. CLARKE:

Your Honor, may I have the same permission?

40 THE COURT:

Proceed.

41 (Brief pause.)
42 MR. CLARKE:

All right. Your Honor, I'm going to ask that this board now be taken down.

43 THE COURT:

All right. And how about 165 as well?

44 MR. CLARKE:

Yes.

45 THE COURT:

All right.

46 (Brief pause.)
47 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
48 THE COURT:

Mr. Clarke.

49 MR. CLARKE:

Thank you, your Honor.

50 MR. CLARKE:

Dr. Cotton, I believe it was day before yesterday that you described, with regard to your controls--may I have just a moment, your Honor?

51 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
52 MR. CLARKE:

You described a couple of days ago that with regard to all the controls and all of the tests that you did, that they all worked properly, with the exception of, and I think you said there were weak reactions to one sample; is that right?

53 DR. COTTON:

That's right.

54 MR. CLARKE:

Could you describe that more for the jury, please.

55 DR. COTTON:

Yes. If you will just give me a minute.

56 MR. CLARKE:

Sure.

57 (Brief pause.)
58 MR. CLARKE:

Your Honor, I'm going to ask that one of the previous drawings, exhibit 254, be placed up, so that the witness can refer to it for a few questions.

59 THE COURT:

All right.

60 (Brief pause.)
61 THE COURT:

I think we will need to move that and exchange places with the large easel.

62 (Brief pause.)
63 THE COURT:

All right. Dr. Cotton, do you have those results?

64 DR. COTTON:

No. I--I need a couple minutes.

65 (Brief pause.)
66 THE COURT:

Mr. Clarke, would you have that sheet in your notes?

67 (Brief pause.)
68 MR. CLARKE:

I believe I do.

69 THE COURT:

All right. Why don't you show that to Dr. Cotton.

70 (Brief pause.)
71 MR. CLARKE:

Do you have that now, Dr. Cotton?

72 DR. COTTON:

I do.

73 MR. CLARKE:

All right. If you would, would you describe what you meant by those faint reactions that you described a couple days ago.

74 DR. COTTON:

With regard to sample--the sample which was item 7, we had--we had done this PCR reaction and gotten a faint product, so we attempted to concentrate the sample and try it again. After that concentration step we picked up two faint dots in the polymarker reagent blank.

KEY QUOTE
75 MR. CLARKE:

Now, we have placed or had placed out here a drawing that you did entitled "PCR controls," which is labeled exhibit 254. I'm going to ask you if you would step down from the witness stand and use that drawing to describe what you have just testified to.

76 DR. COTTON:

(Witness complies.) this is the listing of the various controls that one normally does when you do a PCR reaction. For the sample that I'm referring to, the positive control was fine and then we talked about two kind of negative controls. One is started at the very beginning of the test and carried through just as if it was a sample, and that is the reagent blank. The second is added at the time the reaction is set up and that is the negative control. In this case, with regard to the sample, it is the reagent blank control that showed two faint dots and this control was carried through and amplified at the same time a number of samples were amplified. And on its first amplification it was fine, it didn't show faint dots. Only after the manipulations that it went through along with item no. 7 that needed to be concentrated so the reagent blank was concentrated as well, at that point when it was reamplified and reanalyzed, then it showed a faint D at the D7/S8 location and a faint C at the GC location. It didn't show any other dots, it didn't give a complete type, it didn't have a C dot or an s dot, but those faint dots were noted when the analyst and a second analyst read the results and they are recorded in the case work notes.

77 MR. CLARKE:

What is the significance of seeing those two dots?

78 DR. COTTON:

Well, there is two ways you could interpret that. One possibility is that there was a very, very low amount of contamination in the reagent blank to begin with, so low that it it wouldn't be amplified. That is, there was a tiny amount of human DNA there, but not enough to be amplified, not enough to see anything, and then in the process of concentrating that sample, you concentrated it just enough, that is, you reduced the volume, but you didn't reduce the amount of DNA, that now you are seeing these two faint dots and they are barely detectable. The other scenario that would account for that is that the reagent blank was clean up until the point that the sample was concentrated and the manipulation of putting it through the micro--it is a little tiny thing, but putting it through this concentration step, somehow in doing that we picked up a very small amount of contaminating DNA and that is what we saw and there is no way to know which of those two alternatives accounts for obtaining those two faint dots in the reagent blank, but those are the two possibilities.

79 MR. CLARKE:

How many samples were involved in this testing that had that faint reaction in the reagent blank?

80 DR. COTTON:

Just one.

81 MR. CLARKE:

And I believe you said that was no. 7?

82 DR. COTTON:

That is no. 7. Now, let me clarify that. That reagent blank was started with a series of samples and I don't remember exactly, without going back to the notes, which samples it was started with, but it was several. The most--most of the samples typed just fine, as did the reagent blank produce no type on the first amplification. So the reagent blank for those samples is--is okay. It is only--it only affects your--or you only--we only looked at it and tried to take it into account with respect to item no. 7 because that was the item that was then concentrated and then typed and actually then it was typed--the pre-concentration was typed also and all those results were consistent.

83 MR. CLARKE:

Item no. 7 was a Rockingham driveway stain?

84 DR. COTTON:

I believe so.

85 MR. CLARKE:

Now, as far as these controls--and first of all, did you ultimately report a result for no. 7, the Rockingham driveway stain?

86 DR. COTTON:

We did report a result.

87 MR. CLARKE:

What is that okay to do under these circumstances?

88 DR. COTTON:

The sample was amplified twice, before it was concentrated and after it was concentrated. In both instances it gave exactly the same results, and the reagent blank dots that I described, whatever they were, the faint b and the faint c, were so light that we felt this would--could not possibly have compromised the types that we saw in that sample and therefore we went ahead and reported it.

89 MR. CLARKE:

Now, on 254, you have listed at the bottom "reagent blank control." is that what we are talking about?

90 DR. COTTON:

That is what we are talking about.

91 MR. CLARKE:

Okay. Is that different from what you have above, the negative control?

92 DR. COTTON:

Yes, it is.

93 MR. CLARKE:

How are those two different?

94 DR. COTTON:

They are started at different times.

95 MR. CLARKE:

As far as this particular evidence was involved, did you get any reactions or see any contamination from the negative control?

96 DR. COTTON:

No, we didn't.

97 MR. CLARKE:

With regard to your testing, is there any other evidence of contamination whatsoever in any of your tests in this case?

98 DR. COTTON:

No.

99 MR. CLARKE:

All right. If you could, could you have a seat back on the witness stand, Dr. Cotton. Thank you.

100 (Witness complies.)
101 MR. CLARKE:

Dr. Cotton, you also described the fact, when you were going through one of the boards, and I believe it was yesterday, as far as some of the evidence items that you received, that you received some unstained or substrate controls as well?

102 DR. COTTON:

That's right.

103 MR. CLARKE:

As far as this--

104 THE COURT:

Excuse me. Would you pull the microphone closer to you, please.

105 DR. COTTON:

Oh.

106 THE COURT:

Thank you.

107 MR. CLARKE:

As far as the Bundy crime scene, did you receive unstained controls for one of the Bundy walkway stains, no. 49, as well as the shoeprint, 56?

108 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

109 MR. CLARKE:

Did you test those for any DNA in them?

110 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

111 MR. CLARKE:

With what results?

112 DR. COTTON:

No results. We didn't get any types, any dots.

113 MR. CLARKE:

As a DNA--

114 DR. COTTON:

Nothing.

115 MR. CLARKE:

I'm sorry?

116 DR. COTTON:

We got nothing.

117 MR. CLARKE:

As a DNA analyst, is that important in any way because it was a substrate control?

118 DR. COTTON:

Well, it tells you that the immediate--it--I don't know--I don't have personal knowledge of where that substrate control was taken, but generally it would be taken close to the stain, so it tells you that the surrounding or the area from which the substrate control, which was--if I can assume it was close to the stain, didn't have DNA in it, so that the DNA that you get from the sample is DNA from the stain.

119 MR. CLARKE:

Now, I would like to shift your attention back to the fingernail scrapings and clippings that were no. 84, that is from Nicole Brown.

120 DR. COTTON:

Yes.

121 MR. CLARKE:

The items that you actually received for DNA typing came from whom?

122 DR. COTTON:

They came from the Department of Justice.

123 MR. CLARKE:

Is that the California Department of Justice?

124 DR. COTTON:

Yes.

125 THE COURT:

Excuse me. Dr. Cotton, would you allow Mr. Clarke to finish asking the question before you start to answer.

126 DR. COTTON:

Yes, sir.

127 THE COURT:

Thank you.

128 MR. CLARKE:

What form did they come to you in, and I'm talking about just the fingernail scrapings and clippings?

129 DR. COTTON:

They were already extracted DNA.

130 MR. CLARKE:

Meaning they came to you in what form? Can you just describe that?

131 DR. COTTON:

They came in a--it was a very small volume of liquid in a very small tube.

132 MR. CLARKE:

Now, I would ask, your Honor, that be marked as the People's next exhibit, which I believe is 260, what can be described as the Bronco results board.

133 THE COURT:

260.

134 (Peo's 260 for id = posterboard)
135 THE COURT:

And Mr. Clarke, we are going to break at 10:30.

136 MR. CLARKE:

Very good.

137 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
138 MR. CLARKE:

Dr. Cotton, incidentally, with regard to what has been described as the Bronco automobile, did you test one item of evidence from that particular location?

139 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

140 MR. CLARKE:

And can you describe what that piece of evidence was?

141 DR. COTTON:

Can you give me an item number?

142 MR. CLARKE:

Sure. If I can direct your attention to what has been described as item no. 29, the Los Angeles Police Department item number and described as the steering wheel.

143 DR. COTTON:

Okay. You have to give me a minute now to find that report.

144 MR. CLARKE:

All right.

145 (Brief pause.)
146 THE COURT:

Which item is this on the board?

147 MR. CLARKE:

Item no. 29.

148 THE COURT:

All right. We are fine.

149 DR. COTTON:

I'm having a little trouble going back and forth between our numbers and the item numbers.

150 (Brief pause.)
151 THE COURT:

Take your time. We don't want to confuse these.

152 DR. COTTON:

Okay.

153 (Brief pause.)
154 THE COURT:

Mr. Clarke, do you have a date on this or anything that can assist Dr. Cotton?

155 (Brief pause.)
156 DR. COTTON:

I--

157 THE COURT:

You found it?

158 DR. COTTON:

I have it, yes.

159 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Clarke.

160 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
161 MR. CLARKE:

All right. Dr. Cotton, did you in fact test that item, no. 29?

162 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

163 MR. CLARKE:

What did you test it by, what method?

164 DR. COTTON:

Using the DQ-Alpha and the polymarker test.

165 MR. CLARKE:

Were these the six genetic markers again?

166 DR. COTTON:

Yes.

167 MR. CLARKE:

What results did you obtain?

168 DR. COTTON:

We obtained results that indicated there was a mixture in that item.

KEY QUOTE
169 MR. CLARKE:

And with regard to that mixture--I'm sorry, let's start with the DQ-Alpha results. What were they?

170 DR. COTTON:

A 1.1, a 1.2 and a 4.

171 MR. CLARKE:

Did you also test that particular item using these five polymarkers?

172 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

173 MR. CLARKE:

First of all, did the results of that test indicate the possibility of a mixture?

174 DR. COTTON:

The results of the polymarker also indicate that there is a mixture.

175 MR. CLARKE:

All right. Your Honor, with the Court's permission I'm going to remove the first magnetic cover as to item 29.

176 THE COURT:

Proceed.

177 (Brief pause.)
178 MR. CLARKE:

Dr. Cotton, with regard to that series of results or what is written that I have just revealed with the magnet, does that accurately describe the results you obtained?

179 DR. COTTON:

Yes, it does.

180 MR. CLARKE:

As far as the three individuals, that is, Mr. Simpson, Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman are concerned, can you make any conclusion about who was included or excluded from that result?

181 DR. COTTON:

Mr. Simpson is included. Mr. Goldman is not included and Nicole Brown could be included.

KEY QUOTE
182 MR. CLARKE:

All right. So far as individuals who are not excluded, that would be whom?

183 DR. COTTON:

Ronald Goldman.

184 MR. CLARKE:

I'm sorry, not excluded?

185 DR. COTTON:

Oh, sorry. That would be Mr. Simpson and Nicole Brown.

186 MR. CLARKE:

All right. Your Honor, with the Court's permission I'm going to reveal that marker.

187 (Brief pause.)
188 MR. CLARKE:

And in fact, Dr. Cotton, should there be an additional name up there from these three parties, since there is one name at the moment?

189 DR. COTTON:

Yes.

190 MR. CLARKE:

And who would that be?

191 DR. COTTON:

Nicole Brown.

192 MR. CLARKE:

Your Honor, with the Court's permission I'm going to simply write in that name, if that is acceptable, or ask the witness to.

193 THE COURT:

No. Why don't you proceed.

194 MR. CLARKE:

Proceed with the writing in?

195 THE COURT:

Yes.

196 (Brief pause.)
197 MR. CLARKE:

For the record, I have written in the name "Brown" beneath "Orenthal Simpson" on this particular exhibit.

198 THE COURT:

All right. Proceed.

199 MR. CLARKE:

Is this the only item you tested, as far as you know, from the Bronco automobile?

200 DR. COTTON:

Yes.

201 MR. CLARKE:

May I have just a moment, your Honor?

202 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
203 MR. CLARKE:

Now, as far as this particular item, did you also receive an unstained control for item no. 29?

204 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

205 MR. CLARKE:

Did you test that using this PCR typing process?

206 DR. COTTON:

Yes, we did.

207 MR. CLARKE:

With what result?

208 DR. COTTON:

There were no results for that unstained control.

209 MR. CLARKE:

Your Honor, at this time I would like to move to another board which I believe would be People's exhibit 261.

210 THE COURT:

All right. Before we do that, why don't we take our break.

211 MR. CLARKE:

That's fine.

212 THE COURT:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take a recess for the morning. This might be slightly longer than our normal recesses. Please remember all of my admonitions to you. Don't discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't discuss the matter with anybody else, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. And we will stand in recess. All right. Thank you.

213 MR. NEUFELD:

May we have a side bar very briefly?

214 (Recess.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Dr. Robin Cotton
We obtained results that indicated there was a mixture in that item.
Introduces the critical finding that the Bronco steering wheel contained DNA from more than one person — setting up the inclusion of both Simpson and Nicole Brown.
Dr. Robin Cotton
Mr. Simpson is included. Mr. Goldman is not included and Nicole Brown could be included.
Places both OJ Simpson and Nicole Brown's DNA on the Bronco steering wheel, directly linking Simpson to the crime scene victims.
Dr. Robin Cotton
We felt this would--could not possibly have compromised the types that we saw in that sample and therefore we went ahead and reported it.
Cotton defends the decision to report results for item no. 7 despite the reagent blank anomaly, preemptively addressing a potential defense attack on lab protocol.
Dr. Robin Cotton
With regard to sample--the sample which was item 7, we had done this PCR reaction and gotten a faint product, so we attempted to concentrate the sample and try it again. After that concentration step we picked up two faint dots in the polymarker reagent blank.
Detailed disclosure of the one contamination anomaly in the entire case — transparency that supports credibility but also opens a door for cross-examination.

Evidence (8)

People's 84-a
Nicole Brown Simpson's left nail clippings and scrapings
Results discussed — consistent with Nicole Brown, excludes Simpson and Goldman
People's 84-b
Nicole Brown Simpson's right nail clippings and scrapings
Results discussed — consistent with Nicole Brown, excludes Simpson and Goldman
People's 254
Drawing of PCR controls chart
Used by Cotton to illustrate reagent blank contamination anomaly for item no. 7
People's 260
Bronco results posterboard
Introduced and marked for identification
Informal
Item no. 7 — Rockingham driveway stain (LAPD numbering)
Discussed in context of reagent blank anomaly; result ultimately reported despite faint contamination dots
Informal
Item no. 49 — Bundy walkway stain substrate control
Tested, no DNA detected — confirms stain DNA came from the stain itself
+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

George ClarkeDr. Robin Cotton
Cotton steps down from the witness stand and uses the PCR controls diagram (Exhibit 254) to explain the reagent blank anomaly for item no. 7, offering two possible explanations — pre-existing trace contamination or contamination introduced during the concentration step — while noting it could not be determined which occurred.
technical, transparent
George ClarkeDr. Robin Cotton
Confusion over the Bronco steering wheel exhibit — Cotton struggles to cross-reference lab numbers with LAPD item numbers, causing multiple pauses while judge and counsel try to assist.
mildly awkward, procedural
George ClarkeDr. Robin Cotton
Clarke accidentally states Goldman is not excluded from the Bronco steering wheel mixture; Cotton corrects herself after Clarke catches the error, clarifying that Simpson and Nicole Brown are the non-excluded individuals.
corrective, careful

Light Moments (2)

George Clarke
Clarke fumbles the exhibit number at the start — 'Nicole Brown Simpson's left nail clippings -- I'm sorry, left nail--' prompting Ito to say 'Start again' and Clarke to respond 'Let me try again, your Honor.'
Dr. Robin Cotton
Cotton corrects herself mid-sentence when Clarke asks who is 'not excluded' from the Bronco results — she initially says 'Ronald Goldman' before catching herself: 'Oh, sorry. That would be Mr. Simpson and Nicole Brown.'

Witness Demeanor

(Witness steps down from stand to demonstrate at exhibit board, then returns)
(Multiple brief pauses as witness locates reports)
(Witness expresses difficulty cross-referencing lab numbers with LAPD item numbers)

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 6019 • 214 utterances • Prosecution witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 MAY 11, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Dr. Robi
MAY 11, 1995 KRT DvH TD