Robert Shapiro cross-examined neighbor Charles Cale on three main fronts: whether he could actually identify the parked vehicle as Simpson's Bronco specifically (vs. any white Bronco), the precision of his timing estimates during his 9:30 PM dog walk, and whether he saw a limousine in the area that night — a pointed reference to limo driver testimony about Simpson's whereabouts. Shapiro closed by revealing that Cale had received Shapiro's home number the night before but chose not to call back before testifying.
# 1 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BOTH SIDES HAVE ALL THE REPORTS. PROCEED.
# 2 MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR?
# 4 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: LET ME GIVE YOU AS MUCH TIME --
# 6 Q: -- YOU NEED, SIR, TO READ THIS REPORT.
# 8 CHARLES CALE: I'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT IT, MR. SHAPIRO.
# 9 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH TIME TO READ IT?
# 10 A: I'VE READ IT. EXCUSE ME.
# 11 Q: DO YOU SEE IF THERE ARE ANY ERRORS OR OMISSIONS IN THAT REPORT?
# 12 A: WELL, AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE, UH, I DON'T THINK THERE WAS AN ISSUE OF MY NOT KNOWING WHO TO CONTACT IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH.
# 13 Q: WELL, WHAT IS THE ERROR IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH?
# 14 A: YOU SAID -- IT SAYS IN THE SENTENCE THAT, "MR. J. GARDNER STATED THAT A FRIEND, CHARLIE CALE, HAD INFORMATION REGARDING THE BRONCO, BUT DID NOT KNOW WHO TO CONTACT." I -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT MR. GARDNER STATED, BUT -- SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S -- I GUESS THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S COMMENT.
# 15 Q: LET ME JUST ASK YOU ON THAT POINT, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE ON. DID YOU EVER TELL MR. GARDNER THAT YOU HAD INFORMATION, BUT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHO TO CONTACT?
# 16 A: NO, I DON'T THINK IN THAT SENSE I DID. WE DISCUSSED THE -- THE -- THE ISSUE THAT WAS IN THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH, ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, WHERE SOME COMMENT HAD COME UP ON THE NEWS THAT SAID THAT -- THAT THERE WAS A --
# 17 MR. DARDEN: PERHAPS I SHOULD OBJECT AT THIS POINT.
# 18 THE COURT: WHAT'S THE OBJECTION?
# 19 MR. DARDEN: COMMENTS ON THE NEWS.
# 20 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN FINISH YOUR ANSWER, MR. CALE.
# 21 CHARLES CALE: -- THAT HAD BEEN REPORTED IN THE NEWS THAT SOMEONE WAS STATING THAT THE BRONCO HAD BEEN PARKED OTHER THAN ON ROCKINGHAM AND THAT IT HAD BEEN MOVED ONTO ROCKINGHAM, UH, BY THE POLICE OR BY SOMEBODY OR THAT IT HAD BEEN CHANGED, ITS LOCATION.
AND, UH, I -- MR. GARDNER AND I WERE TALKING AND I SAID I JUST HAD HEARD THIS OR HE RAISED THE QUESTION WITH ME, AND I SAID, "THAT'S NOT THE CASE BECAUSE I SAW THE BRONCO ON MONDAY MORNING WHEN I WENT TO THE AIRPORT AND I HAD TAKEN A WALK THE NIGHT BEFORE, AND IT HADN'T BEEN THERE." SO THAT'S -- THAT'S HOW THE WHOLE SUBJECT CAME. SO YOU ASKED ALSO IF I KNEW HOW TO GET AHOLD OF ANYBODY IN JUNE. IN JUNE, THERE WAS NEVER AN ISSUE THAT I WAS AWARE OF ABOUT WHERE THE BRONCO WAS OR WAS NOT PARKED.
# 22 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: I TAKE IT THAT YOU KNOW THAT THERE WAS A PRELIMINARY HEARING IN THIS CASE?
# 24 Q: AND I TAKE IT YOU KNOW THAT THAT WAS TELEVISED?
# 26 Q: DID YOU SEE ANY PART OF IT?
# 27 A: I DON'T THINK I SAW MORE THAN FIVE OR 10 MINUTES OF THE WHOLE HEARING.
# 29 A: ON THE NEWS PERHAPS, BUT I DID NOT WATCH IT.
# 30 Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANY NEWS REPORTS OF ANY ISSUE REGARDING A BRONCO?
# 31 A: I SAW NEWS REPORTS THAT INDICATED THAT THERE WAS A BRONCO PARKED THERE AND THERE WAS AN ISSUE OF WHAT WAS IN IT OR ON IT OR THINGS OF THAT SORT.
# 32 Q: SO YOU KNEW AS EARLY AS JULY OF 1994 THAT THE BRONCO WAS AT LEAST AN ISSUE IN THIS CASE BEING A LAWYER; DID YOU NOT?
# 33 A: THE BRONCO WAS AN ISSUE? I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS AN ISSUE. I KNOW IT WAS AN ELEMENT IN THE CASE.
# 34 Q: AND YOU'RE A READER OF NEWSPAPERS; ARE YOU NOT?
# 36 Q: YOU READ ABOUT THIS CASE IN THE NEWSPAPERS; DID YOU NOT?
# 37 A: I READ IT IN THE NEWSPAPERS, YES, SIR.
# 38 Q: AND YOU WERE AWARE OF SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN REFERRED TO AS A LOW-SPEED FOLLOW INVOLVING A BRONCO?
# 40 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 41 THE COURT: OVERRULED AT THIS POINT.
# 42 CHARLES CALE: I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
# 43 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND SO AS A LAWYER, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU COULD CONCLUDE THAT THE BRONCO WAS AN ISSUE IN THIS CASE?
# 44 A: I DON'T PRACTICE LAW, BUT AS SOMEONE WHO USED TO, I WOULD SAY THAT THE ISSUE OF THE BRONCO WAS IN THE CASE. HOWEVER, THERE WAS NOTHING THAT I HAD SEEN OR NOT SEEN ABOUT THE BRONCO THAT I THOUGHT WAS ANY ISSUE UNTIL, UH, THE LATTER PART OF JANUARY.
# 45 Q: BEING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE OF MR. SIMPSON, DID YOU FIND IT UNUSUAL THAT NO ONE CONTACTED YOU, WHETHER YOU HEARD ANY UNUSUAL NOISES ON JUNE THE 13TH?
# 46 A: NO, SIR. WHERE WE ARE IS FAR ENOUGH AWAY AND WITH TREES THAT I DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON ANYBODY'S MIND TO UNNECESSARILY ASK IF WE HEARD STRANGE NOISES WHERE WE WERE.
# 47 Q: WHAT ABOUT VEHICLES THAT MIGHT BE GOING BY?
# 48 A: MY ANSWER WOULD BE THE SAME.
# 49 Q: WHAT IF YOU WERE OUTSIDE YOUR RESIDENCE WALKING YOUR DOG AS YOU SOMETIMES DO? WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK THE POLICE MIGHT WANT TO KNOW?
# 50 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. SPECULATION.
# 51 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 52 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE VEHICLES OF ALL YOUR NEIGHBORS?
# 54 Q: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE VEHICLES THAT WERE PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU WENT TO THE AIRPORT THAT MORNING ON JUNE THE 13TH?
# 55 A: I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE TWO THAT I SAW, ONE ON ASHFORD, WHICH WAS THE BLACK AND WHITE, AND THE OTHER WAS THE BRONCO, AND TO MY RECOLLECTION, THERE WEREN'T ANY OTHERS PARKED.
# 56 Q: THERE WERE NO OTHER VEHICLES ON ROCKINGHAM THAT DAY?
# 57 A: NOT THAT I RECALL.
# 58 Q: WHAT ABOUT THE NIGHT BEFORE? WHAT VEHICLES WERE PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM?
# 62 Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY OTHER BRONCOS AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE OR IN THE AREA OF -- STRIKE THAT. IN THE AREA OF ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY OTHER BRONCOS OTHER THAN MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO?
# 63 A: I'VE SEEN OTHER BRONCOS, YES, SIR.
# 64 Q: AND YOU'VE SEEN THEM PARKED IN MANY DIFFERENT LOCATIONS; HAVE YOU NOT?
# 65 A: SEEN THEM PARKED ON ASHFORD.
# 66 Q: HAVE YOU SEEN MR. COWLINGS IN THE AREA OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE?
# 67 A: YES, SIR, I HAVE.
# 68 Q: AND HAVE YOU SEEN HIS BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM?
# 69 A: NOT THAT I RECALL. I'VE SEEN -- I'VE SEEN HIS BRONCO PARKED ON ASHFORD I KNOW.
# 70 Q: IS THERE SOMETHING IN PARTICULAR ABOUT NOTING WHERE A BRONCO IS PARKED EIGHT MONTHS AGO THAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU?
# 71 A: I DON'T REALLY QUITE UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, MR. SHAPIRO.
# 72 Q: HAVE YOU WATCHED ANY PART OF THIS CASE ON TELEVISION, ANY PART OF THIS TRIAL?
# 74 Q: SO YOU'VE WATCHED SOME OF IT?
# 76 Q: WHAT HAVE YOU WATCHED?
# 77 A: I'VE SEEN NEWS CLIPS FROM -- FROM THE NEWS WHEN I WATCHED THE REGULAR NEWS. UH, THAT'S REALLY ABOUT ALL.
# 78 Q: HAVE YOU SEEN ANY WITNESSES TESTIFY IN THIS CASE?
# 79 A: I'VE SEEN, UH -- I SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN BRIEFLY AND I -- DETECTIVE -- I DON'T KNOW THE DETECTIVE -- I DON'T EVEN KNOW HIS NAME. WAS THERE IN -- THE GENTLEMAN SITTING BEHIND COUNSEL. I SAW --
# 80 THE COURT: INDICATING DETECTIVE LANGE.
# 81 CHARLES CALE: UH, AND I PROBABLY SAW TWO OR THREE MINUTES IN TOTAL OF -- OF MISS LOPEZ.
# 82 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU WERE AWARE THAT ALL THREE OF THOSE PEOPLE GAVE TESTIMONY REGARDING THE BRONCO; ARE YOU NOT?
# 83 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 84 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 85 MR. DARDEN: MOTION TO STRIKE.
# 86 THE COURT: BE STRICKEN. THE JURORS ARE TO DISREGARD.
# 87 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: I AM SORRY. ARE YOU AWARE THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GAVE INFORMATION REGARDING THE BRONCO?
# 88 A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT INFORMATION DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GAVE ABOUT THE BRONCO IF HE DID.
# 89 Q: WHAT ABOUT DETECTIVE VANNATTER?
# 90 A: I DID NOT SEE DETECTIVE VANNATTER AT ALL EVEN ON A NEWS -- THE NEWS THAT I CAN RECALL. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE TALKED ABOUT.
# 91 Q: WHAT ABOUT DETECTIVE LANGE?
# 92 A: I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING THAT HE TALKED ABOUT. I JUST REMEMBER SEEING HIM.
# 93 Q: CAN YOU TELL ONE BRONCO FROM ANOTHER?
# 94 A: UMM, THAT'S A QUESTION I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER, UH, MR. SHAPIRO.
# 96 A: I DON'T THINK THAT'S A QUESTION THAT'S SUSCEPTIBLE TO ANSWERING YES OR NO. IF YOU HAVE TWO IDENTICAL BRONCOS, I COULDN'T TELL WHICH WAS WHICH. I CAN TELL YOU THAT I RECOGNIZED THE BRONCO WHEN I SAW IT.
# 97 Q: DID YOU RECOGNIZE IT AS MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO OR DID YOU RECOGNIZE IT AS A WHITE BRONCO?
# 98 A: I RECOGNIZED IT AS A WHITE BRONCO.
KEY QUOTE # 99 Q: AND THE CLOSEST YOU GOT TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE IS WHERE YOU'VE PUT THIS REDDISH ORANGE MARKER ON THE ELMO?
# 100 A: THAT'S MY BEST RECOLLECTION, YES, SIR. WAS IN THAT GENERAL AREA.
# 101 Q: AND IT COULD HAVE BEEN BEFORE 9:30 THAT YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 102 A: DON'T THINK IT WAS.
# 103 Q: BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE?
# 105 Q: YOU'RE VERY SURE?
# 106 A: THAT IT WAS IN THE --
# 107 Q: YOU WALKED YOUR DOG --
# 108 THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT.
# 109 CHARLES CALE: -- 9:30 TO 9:45 TIME FRAME. THAT'S THE BEST ESTIMATE I CAN GIVE YOU, SIR.
# 110 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WELL, YOU JUST USED THE TERM "THE BEST ESTIMATE" AND YOU'RE VERY SURE.
# 111 A: YES. I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE INCONSISTENT.
KEY QUOTE # 112 Q: SO YOU WOULD -- IN YOUR DEFINITION, YOUR BEST ESTIMATE IS BEING VERY SURE OF SOMETHING.
# 113 A: WHEN YOU HAVE A PERIOD OF TIME WITHIN A CERTAIN PERIMETERS, THAT'S -- I'M VERY SURE OF MY ESTIMATE THAT IT'S IN THAT RANGE OF TIME.
# 114 Q: COULD IT HAVE BEEN 9:25?
# 115 A: I DON'T THINK IT WAS. IS IT POSSIBLE? I GUESS IT'S POSSIBLE. I DON'T THINK SO THOUGH.
# 116 Q: DO YOU WALK YOUR DOG AT A REGULAR TIME EVERY EVENING?
# 117 A: NO, SIR, I DO NOT.
# 118 Q: DO YOU WALK YOUR DOG EVERY EVENING?
# 119 A: NO, SIR, I DO NOT.
# 120 Q: DO YOU WALK YOUR DOG VERY DAY?
# 121 A: NO, SIR. I WALK THE DOG SPORADICALLY ON OCCASION.
# 122 Q: DID YOU -- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WALKED YOUR DOG BEFORE THE EVENING THAT YOU'VE TESTIFIED TO?
# 123 A: I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC DATE. I WALKED IT WITHIN THAT WEEK I KNOW.
# 124 Q: WHAT CARS DID YOU SEE ON ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU WALKED YOUR DOG WITHIN THAT WEEK?
# 125 A: I DON'T REMEMBER THAT.
# 126 Q: HOW FAR WERE THE REAR WHEELS OF THE BRONCO -- I THINK YOUR WORDS WERE JUTTING OUT INTO THE ROADWAY. HAVE YOU HEARD -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS FIRST. HAVE YOU HEARD THAT TERM USED IN THIS CASE BY ANYONE ELSE?
# 127 A: NO, SIR, I HAVE NOT.
# 128 Q: HAVE YOU READ THAT TERM IN ANY OF THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES?
# 129 A: NO, SIR, I HAVE NOT.
# 130 Q: HAVE YOU SEEN IT ON ANY NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS -- ANY NEWS CLIPPINGS?
# 132 Q: HOW FAR WAS THE REAR END JUTTING OUT?
# 133 A: I WOULD SAY -- AGAIN, I WAS DRIVING BY IN THE CAR, AND I WOULD SAY APPEARED TO ME TO BE 18 INCHES FROM THE -- FROM THE CURB WITH THE NOSE -- THE FRONT RIGHT WHEEL CLOSER TO THE CURB.
# 134 Q: NOW, YOU'RE AWARE THAT THERE IS A CONCRETE GUTTER AREA AND THEN ASPHALT ON THE STREET; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 136 Q: HOW WIDE IS THE CONCRETE GUTTER AREA?
# 137 A: I DON'T KNOW. SIX, EIGHT INCHES I WOULD ASSUME.
# 138 Q: SO THE TIRES THEN WERE MORE THAN 10 INCHES TO A FOOT, THE REAR TIRES ON THE ASPHALT?
# 139 A: I REALLY CAN'T SAY. AGAIN, WE WERE DRIVING BY. I LOOKED AND I SAW THAT THE CAR WAS OUT AT AN ANGLE WHICH WASN'T PARALLEL TO THE CURB. I DIDN'T STOP AND LOOK.
# 140 Q: YOU JUST GAVE TESTIMONY THAT IT WAS 18 INCHES AWAY FROM THE CURB.
# 141 A: I SAID THAT WAS MY ESTIMATE. I BELIEVED IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ABOUT 18 INCHES FROM THE CURB. THE NOSE WHEELS WERE CLOSE AGAINST THE CURB AND THE REAR WHEELS WERE OUT FROM IT.
# 142 Q: AND IF THE CONCRETE AREA IS SIX TO EIGHT INCHES, THEN BY SIMPLE -- ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU TESTIFIED TO?
# 143 A: I GUESS WHEN YOU SAY CONCRETE, YOU MEAN THE CURB COMES DOWN ONTO THE STREET?
# 144 Q: IS THERE A CONCRETE GUTTER AREA ON ROCKINGHAM?
# 145 A: THERE'S A CURB AND THEN THE CURB NECESSARILY MAKES A GUTTER WHEN IT -- I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY WHEN IT COMES TO THE -- TO THE STREET.
# 146 Q: AND MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, HOW WIDE IS THE GUTTER?
# 147 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S VAGUE.
# 148 THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION?
# 149 CHARLES CALE: I REALLY DON'T, YOUR HONOR.
# 150 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T --
# 151 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DESCRIBE THE CURB, THE GUTTER AREA AND THE ASPHALT ON ROCKINGHAM ADJACENT TO THE SIMPSON PROPERTY.
# 152 A: I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A CONCRETE CURB. THE CURB GOES DOWN TO THE STREET AND THEN OUT SOME INCHES WHICH I THINK IS, AS I SAID, SIX TO EIGHT INCHES FROM THE VERTICAL, AND AT THAT POINT, THE ASPHALT STARTS.
# 153 Q: SO YOUR TESTIMONY THEN IS, IF THE CAR IS 18 INCHES OUT ONTO THE ASPHALT --
# 154 A: 18 INCHES FROM THE VERTICAL CURB.
# 155 Q: ARE YOU -- FROM THE VERTICAL CURB.
# 157 Q: SO THAT IT WOULD BE ON ABOUT 10 INCHES OF ASPHALT?
# 158 A: THAT -- THOSE NUMBERS, YES, SIR. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I -- WELL, IF YOU TAKE THE NUMBERS, THAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE CORRECT.
# 159 Q: AND THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS YOU'VE GIVEN US?
# 160 A: THAT'S THE NUMBERS I'VE GIVEN.
# 161 Q: WERE YOU DRIVING THE CAR ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT?
# 162 A: NO, SIR, I WAS NOT.
# 163 Q: BUT YOU WERE ON THE PASSENGER SIDE?
# 164 A: THAT IS CORRECT.
# 165 Q: DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER VEHICLES IN THE AREA OF ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD OTHER THAN THE POLICE VEHICLE -- THE ONE BLACK AND WHITE POLICE VEHICLE AND THE WHITE BRONCO?
# 166 A: I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF SEEING ANY OTHERS. IT REALLY WASN'T AN ISSUE. I MEAN, I WAS -- WE WERE GOING TO THE AIRPORT. I SAW THE POLICE, I SAID, "LET'S GO STRAIGHT," I SAW THE BRONCO AND WE CONTINUED.
# 167 Q: YOU SAW THE POLICE OR YOU SAW A POLICE VEHICLE?
# 168 A: POLICE VEHICLE, THE BLACK AND WHITE.
# 169 Q: DID YOU SEE ANY POLICEMEN?
# 170 A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT.
# 171 Q: DID YOU SEE ANYONE GUARDING THE BRONCO AT 7:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING?
# 172 A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT.
# 173 Q: DID YOU SEE THE BRONCO CORNERED OFF IN ANY WAY TO LOOK LIKE IT WAS BEING SECURED?
# 174 A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT.
# 175 Q: DID YOU SEE THE HOUSE CORNERED OFF AS IF IT WAS A CRIME SCENE AREA?
# 176 A: I DON'T HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION OF THAT.
# 177 Q: LET ME, WITH THE COURT'S PERMISSION, PUT EXHIBIT 1037 ON THE ELMO.
# 178 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) # 179 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: I WANT TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEING DISPLAYED.
# 181 Q: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT VEHICLE?
# 182 A: THAT APPEARS TO BE THE WHITE BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM.
# 183 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO OWNS THAT VEHICLE?
# 184 A: I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S MR. SIMPSON'S VEHICLE, BUT IT'S -- I -- I'M NOT POSITIVE OF THAT. I HAVEN'T SEEN THE REGISTRATION. IT'S THE WHITE BRONCO.
# 185 Q: AND WHAT IS IT ABOUT THAT VEHICLE THAT LEADS YOU TO BELIEVE THAT IT'S MR. SIMPSON'S FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
# 186 A: WELL, IT APPEARS THAT THAT'S ROCKINGHAM AND THE CAR IS -- IS PARKED WITH THE REAR WHEELS OUT. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.
# 187 Q: WELL, HOW DOES THAT IDENTIFY IT AS BEING MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO?
# 188 A: WELL, THAT'S THE WHITE BRONCO. WHATEVER THE WHITE BRONCO WAS THAT I SAW.
# 189 Q: AND WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE WHEELS ARE IN THE SAME POSITION YOU SAW AS YOU WERE DRIVING BY AS A PASSENGER ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT?
# 190 A: THAT LOOKS CORRECT.
# 191 Q: AND YOU WOULD SAY THAT THE BACK TIRE IS 10 INCHES ONTO THE ASPHALT?
# 192 A: WELL, LOOKS LIKE THE -- THE OUTSIDE PART OF THE TIRE IS A COUPLE OF INCHES ON THE ASPHALT AND THE -- THE FRONT TIRE IS CLOSER IN.
# 193 Q: AND YOU DESCRIBED THAT AS JUTTING OUT AND BEING VERY UNUSUAL?
# 194 A: I THINK I SAID IT JUTTED OUT.
# 195 Q: YOU -- WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT AS BEING UNUSUAL?
# 196 A: I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PARAGON OF PARALLEL PARKING, BUT -- IS IT PARKED ILLEGALLY? I DON'T KNOW. THE WHEELS -- THE FRONT WHEELS ARE IN AND THE BACK WHEELS ARE OUT FARTHER. THAT'S WHAT I SAW WHEN I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE.
# 197 Q: AND HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED WHEN YOU PASSED BY THAT VEHICLE?
# 198 THE COURT: AT WHAT POINT?
# 199 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AT THE TIME YOU WERE ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT.
# 200 A: WE SLOWED DOWN, UH, WHEN WE CAME TO ASHFORD THINKING WE WOULD TURN ONTO ASHFORD. I SAID, "LET'S GO STRAIGHT." SO WE PASSED IT GOING -- ACCELERATING FROM FIVE OR TEN MILES AN HOUR TO TWENTY MILES AN HOUR. I -- I -- TWENTY-FIVE MILES AN HOUR. WE JUST DROVE BY IN PASSING. PROBABLY SAW IT A COUPLE OF SECONDS.
# 201 Q: WHO -- WHO WAS DRIVING YOU?
# 202 A: UH, A YOUNG MAN BY THE NAME OF JOEL.
# 203 THE COURT: HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT?
# 204 CHARLES CALE: J-O-E-L.
# 205 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND DID YOU MENTION ANYTHING TO THIS INDIVIDUAL ABOUT WALKING YOUR DOG THE NIGHT BEFORE?
# 206 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. HEARSAY.
# 207 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 208 CHARLES CALE: NOT ABOUT WALKING THE DOG. I MENTIONED TO HIM -- I SAID, "THAT'S STRANGE. THE CAR IS PARKED THERE AND IT WASN'T LAST NIGHT."
# 209 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU TALKED TO THIS MAN?
# 210 A: PROBABLY YESTERDAY.
# 211 Q: HE WORKS FOR YOU?
# 212 A: HE DOES ON OCCASION, YES.
# 213 Q: IN WHAT CAPACITY?
# 216 A: UMM, I WOULDN'T -- I WOULDN'T HAVE A -- HAVE A -- RISE IT -- RAISE IT TO THAT DIGNITY IN THE SENSE THAT HE'S NOT THERE ALL THE TIME, BUT HE JUST DRIVES AND DOES ERRANDS.
# 217 Q: ARE YOU AWARE THAT MR. COWLINGS HAS A KEY TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?
# 218 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 219 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 220 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYBODY ENTER THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?
# 221 A: I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE EVER SEEN ANYBODY ENTER FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. I'VE SEEN PEOPLE COME OUT FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. UH, I JUST -- I DON'T RECALL THAT I HAVE OR HAVE NOT.
# 222 Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN MR. COWLINGS ENTER FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?
# 224 Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN MISS BARBIERI ENTER FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?
# 226 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO SHE IS?
# 227 A: I ONLY KNOW BY -- BY NAME AND REPUTATION. I DON'T KNOW HER PERSONALLY.
# 228 Q: BY NAME AND REPUTATION?
# 229 A: IN THAT SHE WAS A FRIEND OF MR. SIMPSON'S.
# 230 Q: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
# 231 A: I'VE HEARD THAT.
# 233 A: UH, PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT.
# 234 MR. SHAPIRO: EXCUSE ME FOR ONE MOMENT.
# 235 THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
# 236 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) # 237 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: ARE YOU AWARE THAT PAULA BARBIERI HAS A WHITE BRONCO?
# 238 A: NO, SIR. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MISS BARBIERI OTHER THAN WHAT I JUST SAID.
# 239 Q: YOU ARE AWARE THAT MR. COWLINGS HAS A WHITE BRONCO OR DO YOU --
# 241 Q: AND DO YOU KNOW THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT AN OUTSIDER CAN GAIN ENTRANCE TO THE ROCKINGHAM PROPERTY, TO MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE IS THROUGH THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?
# 242 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION.
# 243 CHARLES CALE: EXCUSE ME? WOULD YOU --
# 244 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S VAGUE.
# 245 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 246 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS THERE ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR ABOUT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE THAT CAUSES YOU TO FOCUS ON IT?
# 247 A: WELL, IT HAS A --
# 248 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.
# 249 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
# 250 CHARLES CALE: UH, YES. MR. SIMPSON IS A CELEBRITY, CERTAINLY THE -- I THINK ONE OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, ALSO, IT'S ON THE CORNER OF WHERE YOU -- EITHER GOING SOUTH OR -- EXCUSE ME -- EITHER GOING WEST OR EAST ON SUNSET, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO SUNSET, YOU GO BY MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE. IT'S DISTINCTIVE. IT'S CHRISTMAS LIGHTED BRIGHTLY. I MEAN, THERE'S -- IT'S -- I THINK IT'S A FOCAL POINT.
# 251 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU SAID IT WAS LIGHTED BRIGHTLY. SO YOU CAN, BY WALKING BY, SEE THAT HOUSE AND FOCUS --
# 252 A: I SAID -- I SAID AT CHRISTMAS.
# 253 Q: OH, AT CHRISTMAS.
# 255 Q: WHAT ABOUT NORMALLY? IS THERE A -- ISN'T THERE A HALOGEN LIGHT ON THE CORNER OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM, STREET LAMP?
# 256 A: THERE'S A STREET LAMP AT THE CORNER OF -- YES, SIR.
# 257 Q: AND DOESN'T THAT ILLUMINATE THE FRONT OF THE SIMPSON PROPERTY?
# 258 A: NOT THE LIGHT I'M --
# 259 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
# 260 CHARLES CALE: I KNOW THERE ARE LIGHTS ON THE PROPERTY.
# 261 THE COURT: OVERRULED. HE CAN ANSWER.
# 262 CHARLES CALE: THERE'S LIGHTS ON THE PROPERTY. THERE'S A BLUE, IF THAT'S A HALOGEN, LIGHT AND THERE'S SOME OTHER LIGHTS ON THE --
# 263 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: THE PROPERTY IS VERY WELL LIT AT NIGHT; IS IT NOT?
# 264 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 265 THE COURT: VAGUE. WANT TO REPHRASE THE QUESTION?
# 266 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: ARE YOU AWARE OF THE LIGHTING ON THE PROPERTY AT NIGHT?
# 267 A: WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE STREET.
# 268 Q: AND WHAT CAN YOU SEE FROM THE STREET?
# 269 A: THERE'S A -- ONE OF THE TREES I KNOW IS -- IS UP LIT ON -- ON ASHFORD WITH I THINK -- I'M NOT SURE IF HALOGEN IS THE BLUE LIGHT -- WITH A BLUISH GREEN LIGHT AS I RECALL. THERE ARE SOME LIGHTS THAT YOU CAN SEE AROUND THE -- AGAIN, THAT THERE IS SOME LIGHT AROUND THE DRIVEWAY AND THAT'S REALLY ALL I CAN -- CAN RECALL, THAT THERE'S SOME LIGHTS IN THE BACK BY THE POOL AREA SOMETIMES THAT YOU SEE.
# 270 Q: ON THE NIGHT BEFORE YOU LEFT FOR THE AIRPORT, DID YOU SEE A LIMOUSINE IN THE AREA OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM?
# 271 A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT.
# 272 Q: AND IF THERE WAS A LIMOUSINE PARKED OUTSIDE THE ROCKINGHAM GATE AT ABOUT 9:30, WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT?
# 273 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 274 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 275 CHARLES CALE: I BELIEVE SO.
# 276 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND IF THERE WAS A LIMOUSINE DRIVING UP ROCKINGHAM TO ASHFORD, WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT?
# 277 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. OBJECTION TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.
# 278 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
# 279 CHARLES CALE: I BELIEVE IF IT HAD HAD ITS HEADLIGHTS ON, I WOULD HAVE.
# 280 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND IF THERE WAS A LIMOUSINE PARKED ACROSS THE STREET FROM MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE ON ASHFORD AT 9:25 TO 9:35, WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT?
# 281 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 282 THE COURT: SUSTAINED, AS TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION.
# 283 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: REGARDING A LIMO -- DID YOU EVER SEE ANY LIMOUSINE PARKED ALONG ASHFORD --
# 284 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION.
# 285 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT NIGHT WHILE YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG?
# 286 MR. DARDEN: IRRELEVANT AS TO WITH THIS WITNESS.
# 287 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 288 CHARLES CALE: NOT -- NOT -- I DID NOT SEE A LIMOUSINE PARKED ON ASHFORD WHEN I WAS WALKING THE DOG.
KEY QUOTE # 289 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU'RE A PRETTY METICULOUS PERSON AND YOU'RE VERY, VERY OBSERVANT OF THINGS; ARE YOU NOT?
# 290 A: UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT. I -- I DON'T KNOW. MY WIFE DOESN'T THINK I'M AS METICULOUS PERHAPS AS --
# 291 THE COURT: JOIN THE CLUB.
# 292 CHARLES CALE: I -- YOU KNOW, I TRY TO BE OBSERVANT WHEN I'M OUT WALKING AT NIGHT.
# 293 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU SEE ANY PEOPLE WALKING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN YOU WERE OUT AT 9:30?
# 294 A: NO, SIR, NOT THAT I RECALL AT THAT TIME.
# 295 Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING A LIMOUSINE DRIVING OUTSIDE OF ASHFORD SMOKING A CIGARETTE?
# 296 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 297 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 298 CHARLES CALE: NO, SIR.
# 299 MR. DARDEN: VAGUE AS TO TIME.
# 300 THE COURT: HOLD ON. THE JURY'S HEARD THE TESTIMONY OF BOTH WITNESSES. THEY KNOW THAT -- THEY CAN PUT THE TWO TESTIMONIES TOGETHER.
# 301 MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 302 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 303 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHAT ABOUT A BENTLEY? DID YOU SEE ANY BENTLEY AT THE ROCKINGHAM PROPERTY AT 9:35?
# 304 A: NO, SIR. I DIDN'T LOOK INTO THE PROPERTY.
# 306 A: I DIDN'T -- I MEAN, I DIDN'T LOOK IN THE GATE.
# 307 Q: DID YOU SEE ANY SMALL FOREIGN VEHICLE ON ASHFORD AT ALL THAT ENTIRE EVENING WHEN YOU WERE OUT?
# 308 A: I DID NOT SEE ANY ON ASHFORD, NO, SIR.
# 309 Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY CAR -- DID YOU SEE A NISSAN Z ON ASHFORD?
# 310 A: I THINK I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T RECALL SEEING ANY CARS ON -- ON ASHFORD.
# 311 Q: WHEN YOU -- YOU REVIEWED THIS REPORT THAT I'VE SHOWN YOU, AND DO YOU SEE WHERE IT INDICATES THAT --
# 312 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION.
# 313 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU TELL THE POLICE OFFICER --
# 314 MR. DARDEN: CALLS FOR HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.
# 315 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 316 MR. DARDEN: AND I WOULD ASK MR. SHAPIRO BE DIRECTED TO GIVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHAT HE INTENDS TO READ INTO THE RECORD.
# 317 THE COURT: COUNSEL.
# 318 MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU.
# 319 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: MR. CALE?
# 321 Q: DID YOU PREVIOUSLY TELL A POLICE OFFICER WHO TOOK A REPORT FROM YOU THAT YOU WENT TO BED AT 10:30 THAT EVENING?
# 322 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT MISSTATES THE REPORT, YOUR HONOR.
# 323 CHARLES CALE: I TOLD --
# 324 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 325 CHARLES CALE: I TOLD THE POLICE OFFICER THAT I RECALL GETTING HOME TO TRY TO GET IN BED SOMETIME AFTER 10:00, BETWEEN 10:00 AND 10:30 -- IT SAYS HERE I SAID 10:30 -- BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE IN BED EARLY BECAUSE I HAD TO GET UP EARLY THE NEXT MORNING. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I TOLD HIM I WAS IN BED AT 10:30 OR 10:15 OR 10:10.
# 326 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME YOU WERE IN BED?
# 327 A: I KNOW I WAS IN BED BY 10:30. I THINK I WAS PROBABLY IN BED EARLIER THAN THAT ACTUALLY.
# 328 Q: ARE YOU AS SURE OF THE TIME YOU WERE IN BED AS IS SURE AS THE TIME YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG?
# 329 A: I'M SURE THAT I WAS IN BED BETWEEN 10:15 AND 10:30. I THINK I MAY WELL HAVE BEEN IN BED BEFORE 10|15, BUT I WASN'T IN BED AT 10:00.
# 330 Q: YOU WOULD AGREE THAT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO BE PRECISE ON TIMES UNLESS YOU'RE LOOKING AT A CLOCK FOR A SPECIFIC REFERENCE; ISN'T THAT TRUE?
# 331 A: I THINK THAT THAT IS TRUE.
# 333 MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I JUST HAVE A MOMENT?
# 334 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 335 MR. SHAPIRO: IF WE COULD PUT THE PHOTOGRAPH BACK ON THE --
# 336 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) # 337 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. HARRIS, YOU'RE PUTTING UP PEOPLE'S 157?
# 339 MR. DARDEN: IT'S 157-A.
# 341 MR. DARDEN: MAY IT BE SO MARKED?
# 342 THE COURT: YES. 157-A.
# 343 (PEO'S 157-A FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 344 THE COURT: MADAM REPORTER?
# 345 THE COURT REPORTER: WHAT?
# 346 THE COURT: 157-A, THIS EXHIBIT.
# 347 MR. SHAPIRO: LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET IT UP ON THE ELMO. CAN WE PUT THAT ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR?
# 348 THE COURT: IT APPEARS TO BE.
# 349 MR. SHAPIRO: ON THE BIG SCREEN HERE? THERE WE GO.
# 350 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: MR. CALE, HOW FAR IS YOUR HOUSE FROM THE RED LINE YOU'VE DRAWN?
# 351 MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 352 THE COURT: YOU CAN TELL US IN DISTANCE.
# 353 MR. DARDEN: MAY WE BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR?
# 354 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 355 MR. DARDEN: CAN I JUST SHOW THE COURT THE REPORT THEN AS TO --
# 356 THE COURT: WELL, WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN PROBABLY IS, HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO WALK FROM HIS YARD WALKING HIS DOG TO THAT LOCATION --
# 357 MR. SHAPIRO: THAT'S PRECISELY THE POINT, YOUR HONOR.
# 358 THE COURT: -- KNOWING THE PARTICULAR IDIOSYNCRACIES OF THIS PARTICULAR DOG.
# 359 CHARLES CALE: WALK WITH THE DOG, IT WOULD TAKE ME THREE OR FOUR MINUTES --
# 360 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHAT'S THE DISTANCE?
# 361 A: -- AT THE -- DEPENDING UPON WHAT THE DOG WAS DOING.
# 362 Q: WHAT'S THE DISTANCE?
# 363 A: I COULD -- WITHOUT THE DOG, I COULD WALK IT IN PROBABLY TWO MINUTES.
# 364 Q: WHAT IS THE DISTANCE IN -- YOU GAVE US BEFORE A DISTANCE OF A QUARTER OF A MILE FROM YOUR RESIDENCE TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE. WHAT'S THE DISTANCE FROM YOUR RESIDENCE TO THE RED LINE?
# 365 A: WELL, AS I SAID BEFORE, I LIVE WITHIN A QUARTER OF A MILE. IT'S LESS THAN A QUARTER OF A MILE. I MEAN, IF -- I DON'T KNOW. YOUR HONOR, DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL HIM IN NUMBERS OF SPECIFIC YARDS AND --
# 366 THE COURT: NO. I THINK WALKING IT IN TWO MINUTES IS THE MATERIAL ISSUE.
# 367 CHARLES CALE: I MEAN, IT'S LESS -- I MEAN, WITH THE DOG, IT WOULD BE AGAIN --
# 368 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WOULD YOU TRACE THE ROUTE THAT YOU WALKED YOUR DOG AND DIRECTING THE ARROW ON THE ELMO, PLEASE?
# 369 THE COURT: THAT'S NOT PARTICULARLY RELEVANT AT THIS POINT. THE ROUTE AS TO HOW HE GOT THERE -- THE ISSUE IS, HOW FAR DOWN ROCKINGHAM DID HE GET, HOW CLOSE TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE AND THE BRONCO DID HE GET. THAT'S THE ISSUE.
# 370 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WOULD YOU INDICATE -- THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR -- ON THE ELMO WHERE YOU BELIEVE -- WHERE THE ROCKING -- WHERE THE BRONCO WAS WHEN YOU SAW IT ON THE 13TH?
# 371 THE COURT: IS THIS THE FULL VIEW, MR. HARRIS?
# 372 MR. HARRIS: LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOUR HONOR.
# 373 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 374 CHARLES CALE: AGAIN, IT'S DIFFICULT -- IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF THE DEFINITION AND THE ANGLE HERE, BUT THE CLOSEST I WOULD SAY -- AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE -- WHERE THE -- WHERE THE DRIVEWAY COMES OUT. BUT YOU SEE ON ROCKINGHAM JUST ABOVE THE BORDER TO THE -- OF THE -- OF THE PHOTOGRAPH THERE ARE -- THERE'S TWO -- LOOKS LIKE TWO VEHICLES, SORT OF WHITISH VEHICLES. AND IT WOULD BE -- AGAIN, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME JUST GETTING THE EXACT REFERENCE TO WHERE THE DRIVEWAY, THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY WOULD BE, BUT IT WOULD APPEAR TO ME THAT IT WOULD BE THE -- THE SOUTHERNMOST OF THOSE TWO -- OF THOSE TWO VEHICLES. THAT WOULD -- THAT'S THE GENERAL LOCATION.
# 375 Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND HOW FAR IN DISTANCE IS THAT LOCATION FROM THE DISTANCE THAT YOU WALKED YOUR DOG CLOSEST TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE?
# 376 A: UH, THE CLOSEST I GOT WAS IN THE GENERAL AREA OF THAT RED LINE. AND AS I SAID BEFORE, I THOUGHT IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 60 YARDS.
# 377 Q: HAVE YOU EVER MEASURED THAT OFF?
# 378 A: NO, SIR, I HAVE NOT.
# 379 Q: IS THAT JUST AN ESTIMATE, JUST A GUESS OR AN ESTIMATE?
# 380 A: THAT WOULD BE MY ESTIMATE.
# 381 Q: SO WE'RE PRECISE, IF YOU COULD DIRECT MR. HARRIS TO CIRCLING THE VEHICLE WHERE YOU BELIEVE THE BRONCO WAS.
# 382 A: WELL, SUBJECT TO THE -- MY PROBLEM OF NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE WHERE THE -- THE LINE OF THE DRIVEWAY IS, AND IT WAS PARKED IMMEDIATELY, YOU KNOW, TO THE NORTH OF THE DRIVEWAY. IT APPEARS TO ME WITH THAT LITTLE CAVEAT OR EXCEPTION THAT IT'S THE -- THE -- THE LOCATION IS THE LOWER -- I SEE THIS LITTLE MARK. THERE'S A MARKING. I WOULD COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND NOW BACK -- TO THE RIGHT OF THAT. NO. NOW UP ONTO THE VEHICLE. THAT VEHICLE (INDICATING). I MEAN, I CAN'T REALLY EVEN TELL IF THAT'S A VEHICLE OR A TRUCK OR WHAT -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S SOMETHING PARKED THERE, AND THAT WOULD BE WHERE I BELIEVE THE BRONCO WAS PARKED THE NEXT MORNING.
# 383 Q: WELL, LET'S -- LET'S -- IS THIS A CORRECT INDICATION OF WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH --
# 384 A: YES. I'M TRYING TO -- YES, SIR. AND THAT'S -- I'M ASSUMING THAT THE -- THAT THAT IS TO THE NORTH OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. I CAN'T SEE THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY ON THE PHOTO.
# 385 Q: DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL FROM A MEMBER OF MY OFFICE, MR. PAT MC KENNA?
# 386 A: I RECEIVED A CALL FROM SOMEBODY AT YOUR OFFICE WHOSE NAME I -- I -- MC KENNA SOUNDS CORRECT. I DIDN'T -- DIDN'T TAKE THE NAME DOWN OR DIDN'T GET THE --
# 387 Q: HOW MANY -- HOW MANY -- DID YOU TALK TO HIM?
# 388 A: I TALKED TO HIM, YES, SIR, I DID.
# 389 Q: ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS?
# 390 A: I TALKED TO HIM ONCE JUST VERY BRIEFLY.
# 391 Q: WHAT DATE WAS THAT?
# 392 A: THAT WAS THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY I BELIEVE.
# 393 Q: ARE YOU SURE OF THAT?
# 395 Q: I'M JUST ASKING, ARE YOU SURE OF THAT OR ARE YOU JUST GUESSING?
# 396 A: NO. TODAY IS FRIDAY. HE CALLED ME WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON.
# 397 Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN HE CALLED YOU?
# 398 A: I WAS AT MY OFFICE.
# 399 Q: AND DID HE ASK TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT YOUR OBSERVATIONS?
# 400 A: HE SAID THAT HE WORKED FOR THE DEFENSE TEAM AND WAS AN INVESTIGATOR AND HE HAD SEEN MY NAME FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S LIST AND HE HOPED TO HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO ME AT SOME POINT. I TOLD HIM THAT I WAS LEAVING NOW, I DIDN'T FEEL VERY WELL AND THAT -- THAT WE COULD TALK LATER.
# 401 Q: YOU COULD TALK LATER?
# 402 A: WE DID NOT TALK LATER.
# 403 Q: BUT YOU TOLD HIM WE COULD -- YOU COULD TALK LATER?
# 404 A: I SAID LET'S -- CALL BACK LATER.
# 405 Q: AND DID YOU TELL HIM WHEN TO CALL BACK LATER?
# 406 A: UMM, YOU KNOW, I -- I SAID, "I'M -- I'M LEAVING NOW." I SAID, "LET'S TALK LIKE MAYBE NEXT WEEK."
# 408 A: I THINK THAT WAS WHAT I SAID TO HIM.
# 409 Q: AFTER YOUR TESTIMONY?
# 410 A: I DID NOT KNOW AT THE TIME THAT I WAS GOING TO BE TESTIFYING THEN.
# 411 Q: DID YOU HAVE HIS NUMBER?
# 412 A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT.
# 413 Q: DID YOU HAVE MY NUMBER?
# 414 A: I RECEIVED YOUR NUMBER LAST NIGHT.
# 415 Q: DID YOU RECEIVE MY HOME NUMBER?
# 417 Q: AND DID YOU GET A REQUEST THAT I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED?
# 418 A: YES, I -- I DID.
# 419 Q: DID YOU CALL ME BACK?
# 421 MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.
# 422 THE COURT: MR. DARDEN.