Direct examination of Philip Vannatter

📄 Direct examination of Philip Vannatter — Monday, March 20, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\20\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-V.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 41 of 167

◀ Morning session opening Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 1) ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Monday, March 20, 1995 • Utterances: 342

Christopher Darden resumes direct examination of Detective Philip Vannatter, covering the chain of custody for OJ Simpson's blood sample (why Vannatter hand-carried it to Rockingham rather than booking it), a videotape of Simpson being handcuffed at the Rockingham gate on June 13, and two timed-drive videos showing the Bundy-to-Rockingham route takes approximately five to six minutes at legal speeds.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

# 2 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

# 3 THE JURY:

GOOD MORNING.

# 4 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

# 5 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

PHILIP VANNATTER, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

# 6 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE.

# 7 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

# 8 THE COURT:

YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. DARDEN, GOOD MORNING, SIR.

# 9 MR. DARDEN:

GOOD MORNING.

# 10 THE COURT:

YOU MAY RESUME WITH YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

# 11 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

# 12 THE JURY:

GOOD MORNING.

# 13

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

# 14

BY MR. DARDEN:

# 15 Q:

DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WHEN WE LEFT OFF LAST FRIDAY YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THE TRAIL OF BLOOD THAT LED YOU TO THE DEFENDANT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 16 A:

YES, SIR.

# 17 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU ALSO TESTIFIED THAT YOU BELIEVED THAT YOU HAD PROBABLE CAUSE TO ARREST THE DEFENDANT ON JUNE 13TH; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 18 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 19 Q:

OKAY.

# 20 A:

AND THIS TERM "PROBABLE CAUSE," WHAT DOES THAT TERM MEAN? HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE IT?

# 21 A:

PROBABLE CAUSE IS A STRONG AND HONEST SUSPICION THAT WOULD LEAD A REASONABLE PERSON TO BELIEVE THAT THE SUSPECT IS INVOLVED IN THE CRIME THAT YOU ARE INVESTIGATING.

KEY QUOTE

# 22 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU HARBORED SUCH A STRONG AND HONEST SUSPICION THAT DAY?

# 23 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 24 Q:

OKAY. BUT YOU ALSO TOLD US LAST WEEK THAT YOU FELT THAT YOU NEEDED MORE BEFORE YOU COULD PRESENT THE CASE TO THE D.A.'S OFFICE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 25 A:

I WANTED MORE, YES.

# 26 Q:

AND WHY? WHY IS THAT?

# 27 MR. SHAPIRO:

OBJECTION, CALLS FOR A CONCLUSION.

# 28 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 29 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

KNOWING THE FILING POLICY OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THEY WANT MORE THAN PROBABLE CAUSE. THEY WANT EVIDENCE THAT WILL LEAD TO A CONVICTION, WHICH IS MUCH FARTHER THAN PROBABLE CAUSE EVIDENCE.

KEY QUOTE

# 30 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU DID NOT PRESENT THE CASE TO THE D.A.'S OFFICE ON JUNE 13TH?

# 31 A:

NO, SIR, I DIDN'T.

# 32 Q:

AND WHEN WAS THE CASE FINALLY PRESENTED TO THE D.A.'S OFFICE?

# 33 A:

JUNE THE 17TH.

# 34 Q:

HOW MANY ITEMS OF EVIDENCE, OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, THAT IS, WERE COLLECTED IN THIS CASE?

# 35 THE COURT:

AT WHAT POINT, COUNSEL?

# 36 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AT ANY POINT TOTAL, HOW MANY ITEMS OF EVIDENCE?

# 37 A:

I BELIEVE THERE IS APPROXIMATELY 450 ITEMS OF EVIDENCE.

# 38 Q:

OKAY.

# 39 A:

I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS A CLOSE NUMBER.

# 40 Q:

OKAY. AND EACH OF THESE ITEMS, WERE THEY COLLECTED ALL DURING THE FIRST WEEK AFTER THE MURDERS?

# 41 A:

NO, SIR.

# 42 Q:

WHEN WERE THEY ALL COLLECTED?

# 43 A:

THEY HAVE BEEN COLLECTED DURING THE ENTIRE TIME THAT THE -- THAT WE FIRST RECEIVED THE CASE.

# 44 MR. DARDEN:

COULD I HAVE ONE MOMENT?

# 45 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 46 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I PUT 123 ON THE ELMO, PLEASE.

# 47 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. 123.

# 48 Q:

DETECTIVE, SHOWING WHAT YOU HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 123 -- MAY THE RECORD REFLECT THAT MR. FAIRTLOUGH IS FOCUSING THE ELMO ON THE DEFENDANT'S FINGER --

# 49 THE COURT:

YES.

# 50 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: -- IN PARTICULAR. IS THAT THE WAY THE INJURY LOOKED TO YOU WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT ON JUNE 13?

# 51 A:

YES.

# 52 Q:

WAS IT BLEEDING?

# 53 A:

IT APPEARED TO HAVE DRIED BLOOD AROUND THE EDGES OF THE WOUND AND IT APPEARED TO BE SEEPING FLUID, NOT -- NOT BLOOD AT THAT POINT.

# 54 Q:

OKAY. IT WASN'T DRIPPING BLOOD AT THAT POINT?

# 55 A:

NO.

# 56 Q:

AND WHAT TIME OF THE DAY WAS IT THAT YOU TOOK THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

# 57 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 58 Q:

OR HAD IT TAKEN, RATHER?

# 59 A:

I BELIEVE IT WAS BETWEEN 2:00 AND 2:30 IN THE AFTERNOON.

# 60 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND YOU ALSO TOLD US THAT YOU TOOK OR HAD A NURSE TAKE A SAMPLE OF THE DEFENDANT'S BLOOD; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 61 A:

YES.

# 62 Q:

OKAY. WHAT TIME OF THE AFTERNOON WAS THAT SAMPLE TAKEN?

# 63 A:

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AFTER THREE O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON, I BELIEVE.

# 64 Q:

WHERE WAS THE DEFENDANT WHEN THE BLOOD SAMPLE WAS TAKEN?

# 65 A:

HE WAS IN THE DISPENSARY SECTION OF THE JAIL DIVISION.

# 66 Q:

OKAY. AND THE JAIL DIVISION IS LOCATED OVER HERE ON LOS ANGELES STREET IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES?

# 67 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 68 Q:

WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE BLOOD SAMPLE, IF ANYTHING, AFTER IT WAS TAKEN?

# 69 A:

I MAINTAINED CUSTODY OF THE BLOOD SAMPLE AND TURNED IT OVER TO THE CRIMINALIST.

# 70 Q:

OKAY. AND WHERE WAS THE CRIMINALIST WHEN YOU TURNED IT OVER TO HIM?

# 71 A:

HE WAS AT ROCKINGHAM FINISHING -- FINISHING THE WORK THERE WITH THE SEARCH WARRANT.

# 72 Q:

AND SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY THEN, DETECTIVE, YOU TOOK THE DEFENDANT'S BLOOD SAMPLE OUT TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 73 A:

YES.

# 74 Q:

WHY DID YOU TAKE THE SAMPLE TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 75 A:

WELL, I COULDN'T BOOK IT AT THAT POINT. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY ITEM NUMBER, I DIDN'T HAVE A DR NUMBER. I KNEW THAT THE CRIMINALIST WAS AT ROCKINGHAM AND AS SOON AS THE CRIMINALIST TAKES CUSTODY OF THE EVIDENCE ITEM, ESSENTIALLY I CONSIDER THAT BOOKED. I KNEW HE WAS THERE. I HAND CARRIED IT TO HIM FOR THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY AND TO PROTECT THAT PIECE OF EVIDENCE.

KEY QUOTE

# 76 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU HAVE USED THREE TERMS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS WITH YOU NOW, DETECTIVE. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT IS CHAIN OF CUSTODY?

# 77 A:

CHAIN OF CUSTODY IS TO ENSURE THAT -- THAT AT ALL TIMES WE KNOW WHO HAS CONTROL OF THE EVIDENCE TO MAINTAIN THAT CONTROL OF THE EVIDENCE TO KNOW WHERE IT IS GOING AND WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO IT.

# 78 Q:

OKAY. WELL, IS IT WISE TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PERSONS THAT -- THAT TAKE CONTROL OR POSSESSION OF EVIDENCE?

# 79 MR. SHAPIRO:

OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

# 80 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 81 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT BENEFIT IS THERE IN LIMITING THE NUMBER OF PERSONS TO HAVE MAINTAINED THE CUSTODY AND CONTROL OF A PARTICULAR PIECE OF EVIDENCE?

# 82 A:

THE BENEFIT IN LIMITING IS TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THAT PIECE OF EVIDENCE.

# 83 Q:

OKAY. COULD YOU HAVE BOOKED THE EVIDENCE AT PARKER CENTER?

# 84 A:

I COULD HAVE BOOKED IT, BUT I DIDN'T HAVE -- AGAIN, I DIDN'T HAVE A DR NUMBER, I DIDN'T HAVE AN ITEM NUMBER, AND IF I WOULD HAVE DONE THAT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SETTING THERE WITH NO CONTROL OVER IT. THAT IS WHY I CONTROLLED IT AND CARRIED IT TO THE CRIMINALIST.

# 85 Q:

OKAY. WHAT IS A DR NUMBER, DETECTIVE?

# 86 A:

A DR NUMBER IS A DIVISION OF RECORDS NUMBER THAT IS ISSUED TO ALL CRIMES. EACH CRIME HAS AN INDIVIDUAL NUMBER.

# 87 Q:

YOU MEAN IT IS A FILE NUMBER?

# 88 A:

THAT IS A FILE NUMBER THAT IDENTIFIES THAT INCIDENT, YES.

# 89 Q:

OKAY. DOES THE SIMPSON INVESTIGATION HAVE A FILE NUMBER OR DR NUMBER.

# 90 MR. SHAPIRO:

EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. ARE WE DONE WITH THE PHOTOGRAPH?

# 91 THE COURT:

I ASSUME SO.

# 92 MR. SHAPIRO:

MAY THAT BE TAKEN DOWN, PLEASE?

# 93 THE COURT:

YES.

# 94 Q:

DOES THE SIMPSON INVESTIGATION HAVE A DR NUMBER OR A FILE NUMBER?

# 95 A:

THE SIMPSON INVESTIGATION ACTUALLY HAS TWO; ONE FOR EACH VICTIM.

# 96 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN WERE THOSE NUMBERS OBTAINED, IF YOU KNOW?

# 97 A:

YEAH, I DO KNOW. I BOUGHT THOSE NUMBERS MYSELF THE -- I BELIEVE THE 15TH OF JUNE.

# 98 Q:

OKAY. YOU OBTAINED THE FILE NUMBER IN THIS CASE ON JUNE 15TH?

# 99 A:

I BELIEVE IT WAS -- IT WAS EITHER THE 14TH OR THE 15TH.

# 100 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY.

# 101 MR. SHAPIRO:

YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THE QUESTION WAS COMPOUND AND NOW -- OBJECTION.

# 102 THE COURT:

WHAT IS THE GROUND?

# 103 MR. SHAPIRO:

COMPOUND.

# 104 THE COURT:

COMPOUND? OVERRULED.

# 105 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AND WHERE WAS THE CRIMINALIST WHEN YOU GAVE HIM THE BLOOD SAMPLE AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 106 A:

STANDING RIGHT INSIDE THE FRONT DOOR. HE WAS PREPARED TO LEAVE.

# 107 Q:

OKAY. HAD THE BLOOD DROPS AND THE OTHER EVIDENCE THAT YOU DESCRIBED FOR US EARLIER BEEN COLLECTED AT THAT POINT?

# 108 A:

YES.

# 109 Q:

AND THE GLOVE, THE GLOVE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN SHOWED YOU EARLIER THAT MORNING, HAD THAT BEEN COLLECTED?

# 110 A:

YES.

# 111 Q:

HAD THE BRONCO BEEN IMPOUNDED AT THAT POINT?

# 112 A:

YES.

# 113 Q:

DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT THE BRONCO WAS STILL AT THE SCENE WHEN YOU ARRIVED BACK AT ROCKINGHAM WITH THE DEFENDANT'S BLOOD SAMPLE?

# 114 A:

THE BRONCO WAS NOT THERE.

# 115 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE COPIED A CLOSE-UP PHOTOGRAPH OF THE DEPICTION JUST SHOWN THE JURY OF THE DEFENDANT'S FINGER.

# 116 THE COURT:

123-A.

# 117 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU.

# 118 MR. DOUGLAS:

I THINK B, YOUR HONOR.

# 119 THE COURT:

B. MRS. ROBERTSON SAYS A.

# 120 MS. CLARK:

A IT IS.

# 121 THE COURT:

A IT IS.

# 122 (PEO'S 123-A FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

# 123 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU EVER LOCATE AN EXTRA SET OF KEYS TO THE BRONCO?

# 124 A:

NO.

# 125 Q:

YOU TOLD US FRIDAY THAT YOU -- THAT YOU HAD A KEY TO THE HANDCUFFS THAT OFFICER THOMPSON PLACED ON THE DEFENDANT; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 126 A:

YES.

# 127 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU GIVE OFFICER THOMPSON YOUR HANDCUFFS SO THAT HE COULD HANDCUFF THE DEFENDANT?

# 128 A:

NO.

# 129 Q:

WELL, HOW IS IT THEN THAT YOU HAD IN YOUR POSSESSION A KEY TO THE HANDCUFFS?

# 130 A:

HANDCUFFS USED BY THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT HAVE A UNIVERSAL KEY THAT EVERY OFFICER HAS A KEY TO THOSE HANDCUFFS.

# 131 Q:

SO YOUR KEY WILL FIT --

# 132 A:

ANY OTHER OFFICER'S HANDCUFFS.

# 133 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY. YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE A VIDEOTAPE OF THE DEFENDANT HANDCUFFED ON JUNE 13, 1994. WE HAVE SHOWN IT TO DEFENSE COUNSEL. I DON'T BELIEVE WE'VE MARKED IT.

# 134 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THIS IS THE VIDEOTAPE THAT WE VIEWED PREVIOUSLY?

# 135 MS. CLARK:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

# 136 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. IS THE MATTER SUBMITTED, MR. SHAPIRO?

# 137 MR. SHAPIRO:

WITHOUT ANY AUDIO, SUBMITTED.

# 138 MR. DARDEN:

SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR MR. SHAPIRO.

# 139 THE COURT:

AUDIO, WITHOUT SOUND.

# 140 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 141 THE COURT:

AND HAVE WE MARKED THIS VIDEOTAPE AS AN EXHIBIT? MRS. ROBERTSON INDICATES NO.

# 142 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 124, VIDEOTAPE.

# 143 (PEO'S 124 FOR ID = VIDEOTAPE)

# 144 THE COURT:

PROCEED.

# 145 (AT 9:31 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 124, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

# 146 MR. DARDEN:

GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING.

# 147 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 148 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, DETECTIVE, WHEN YOU TESTIFIED FRIDAY, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU ASKED OFFICER THOMPSON TO DO SOMETHING; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 149 A:

YES.

# 150 Q:

WHAT DID YOU ASK HIM TO DO?

# 151 A:

I ASKED HIM IF -- TO DETAIN MR. SIMPSON AT THE FRONT GATE IF HE SHOWED UP AT THE LOCATION AND NOT TO LET HIM ENTER THE RESIDENCE.

# 152 Q:

NOW, YOU HAD A SEARCH WARRANT AT THAT TIME; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 153 A:

YES.

# 154 Q:

IF YOU KNOW, DETECTIVE, DOES THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE A SEARCH WARRANT FOR THE PREMISES, DOES THAT ALLOW YOU TO PREVENT PERSONS OR OTHER PERSONS OR CIVILIANS FROM ENTERING THE PROPERTY TO BE SEARCHED?

# 155 A:

YES. IT WAS A SECURED CRIME SCENE.

# 156 Q:

DID YOU EVER TELL OFFICER THOMPSON TO HANDCUFF MR. SIMPSON?

# 157 A:

NO.

# 158 Q:

WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU FIRST SAW MR. SIMPSON HANDCUFFED?

# 159 A:

STANDING IN THE KITCHEN AREA OF THE RESIDENCE.

# 160 Q:

OKAY. WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU SAW THE HANDCUFFS ON MR. SIMPSON?

# 161 A:

I IMMEDIATELY RESPONDED TO HIS LOCATION.

# 162 Q:

I'M GOING TO REPLAY THE VIDEO AT A SLOWER SPEED AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO IDENTIFY SOME OF THE PERSONS YOU SEE IN THE VIDEO. OKAY.

# 163 (AT 9:34 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 124, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS REPLAYED.)

# 164 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: LET ME STOP RIGHT THERE. THERE IS AN OFFICER IN THE BACKGROUND THERE. WHO IS THAT OFFICER, IF YOU KNOW?

# 165 A:

I BELIEVE THAT IS OFFICER THOMPSON.

# 166 MR. DARDEN:

LET IT PLAY SOME MORE.

# 167 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 168 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: IS MR. SIMPSON HANDCUFFED AT THIS POINT?

# 169 A:

YES.

# 170 Q:

OKAY. NOW, STOP THERE. YOU ARE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH MR. SIMPSON; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 171 A:

YES.

# 172 Q:

OKAY. NOW, AT THIS POINT HAD YOU REMOVED THE HANDCUFFS?

# 173 A:

NO.

# 174 Q:

OKAY. YOU DID NOT IMMEDIATELY TAKE -- TAKE THE HANDCUFFS OFF MR. SIMPSON?

# 175 A:

NO, I DIDN'T IMMEDIATELY.

# 176 Q:

OKAY. HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN YOUR FIRST CONTACT WITH MR. SIMPSON AND YOUR REMOVAL OF THE HANDCUFFS?

# 177 A:

VERY SHORT TIME. A COUPLE OF MINUTES MAYBE, TWO, THREE MINUTES.

# 178 Q:

IS THERE SOME REASON THAT YOU DELAYED TWO TO THREE MINUTES BEFORE TAKING THE HANDCUFFS OFF MR. SIMPSON?

# 179 A:

I WAS EXPLAINING THE -- THE SITUATION TO HIM, WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WAS AWAITING HIS ATTORNEY'S ARRIVAL THERE.

# 180 Q:

YOU WERE EXPECTING MR. WEITZMAN TO APPROACH YOU AND MR. SIMPSON?

# 181 A:

YES.

# 182 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 183 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? ARE YOU REACHING FOR SOMETHING?

# 184 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 185 MR. DARDEN:

STOP. STOP. BACK UP A LITTLE BIT.

# 186 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

IT LOOKS LIKE I'M PUTTING MY HAND IN MY POCKET. I WOULD ASSUME AT THAT POINT -- WELL, I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW AT THAT POINT WHAT I WAS DOING. I MAY HAVE BEEN REMOVING MY KEYS. I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.

# 187 MR. DARDEN:

LET IT PLAY.

# 188 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 189 MR. DARDEN:

STOP.

# 190 Q:

THE -- THERE IS ANOTHER OFFICER THEN IN THE PHOTOGRAPH; IS THAT RIGHT, OR THE VIDEO, RATHER?

# 191 A:

YES.

# 192 Q:

WHO IS THAT PERSON?

# 193 A:

I BELIEVE THAT IS DETECTIVE BRAD ROBERTS.

# 194 MR. DARDEN:

LET IT PLAY A LITTLE MORE UNTIL YOU SEE ROBERT'S FACE.

# 195 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 196 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: IS THAT DETECTIVE ROBERTS -- KEEP WATCHING IT.

# 197 A:

YES, THAT IS DETECTIVE ROBERTS.

# 198 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY. LET IT PLAY.

# 199 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 200 MR. DARDEN:

STOP.

# 201 Q:

NOW, IS DETECTIVE ROBERTS HOLDING SOMETHING?

# 202 A:

IT LOOKS LIKE IT, YES.

# 203 Q:

OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS THAT HE IS HOLDING, DETECTIVE?

# 204 A:

IT LOOKS LIKE A NOTEBOOK. I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.

# 205 Q:

OKAY. THAT LOOKS LIKE A NOTEBOOK TO YOU, DETECTIVE?

# 206 MR. SHAPIRO:

BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED. OBJECTION.

# 207 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 208 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

FROM THAT ANGLE FROM THIS PICTURE IT IS VERY, VERY HARD TO TELL WHAT HE IS HOLDING.

# 209 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DON'T TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THAT VIDEO SCREEN UNTIL I SAY SO, DETECTIVE VANNATTER.

# 210 (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

# 211 THE COURT:

IT APPEARS WE JUST RAN THE TAPE BACKWARDS A LITTLE.

# 212 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 213 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: STILL LOOK LIKE A NOTEBOOK IN HIS LEFT HAND, DETECTIVE?

# 214 A:

NO, SIR. THAT LOOKS LIKE THE TRAVEL BAG THAT MR. SIMPSON RETURNED TO THE LOCATION WITH.

# 215 Q:

OKAY. WAS THAT BAG SEIZED BY YOUR DETECTIVES?

# 216 A:

BY MYSELF, YES.

# 217 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY. CONTINUE, PLEASE.

# 218 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 219 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, SOMEONE ELSE HAS JOINED YOU HERE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 220 A:

YES.

# 221 Q:

WHO IS THAT PERSON?

# 222 A:

IT WOULD APPEAR THAT IT IS ATTORNEY HOWARD WEITZMAN.

# 223 Q:

OKAY. NOW, AT THIS POINT IS MR. SIMPSON STILL HANDCUFFED?

# 224 A:

NO.

# 225 Q:

YOU REMOVED THE HANDCUFFS?

# 226 A:

YES.

# 227 Q:

IS MR. SIMPSON UNDER ARREST AT THIS POINT, THAT IS, AS YOU WALKED DOWN THE DRIVEWAY?

# 228 A:

NO.

# 229 Q:

IS HE FREE TO LEAVE?

# 230 A:

YEAH, HE COULD HAVE.

# 231 Q:

IS THAT OFFICER THOMPSON THERE, THE AFRICAN AMERICAN OFFICER?

# 232 A:

YES.

# 233 Q:

DID YOU PLACE MR. SIMPSON INSIDE YOUR VEHICLE?

# 234 A:

NO.

# 235 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY. STOP.

# 236 Q:

YOU HEARD MR. COCHRAN REFER TO A TERM, "RUSH TO JUDGMENT," DETECTIVE?

# 237 A:

YES, I'VE HEARD THAT.

# 238 Q:

DID YOU RUSH TO JUDGMENT IN THIS CASE?

# 239 A:

NO.

# 240 Q:

DID YOU ATTEND THE AUTOPSY ON JUNE 14, 1994?

# 241 A:

YES.

# 242 MR. DARDEN:

BLESS YOU.

# 243 Q:

THOSE WILL BE THE AUTOPSIES FOR RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN?

# 244 A:

YES.

# 245 Q:

DURING THE AUTOPSY WERE BLOOD SAMPLES TAKEN FROM BOTH VICTIMS?

# 246 A:

YES.

# 247 Q:

WHOLE BLOOD SAMPLES?

# 248 A:

YES.

# 249 Q:

AND WERE YOU PRESENT DURING THAT PROCESS?

# 250 A:

YES.

# 251 Q:

AND WHO TOOK THOSE WHOLE BLOOD SAMPLES?

# 252 A:

DR. GOLDEN.

# 253 Q:

THE DEPUTY CORONER?

# 254 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 255 Q:

OKAY. WHAT DID HE DO WITH THE SAMPLES AFTER HE TOOK THEM, IF YOU KNOW?

# 256 A:

I KNOW THE PROCEDURE. HE TOOK CONTROL OF THEM AND TRANSFERRED THEM TO THE CORONER'S LAB.

# 257 Q:

OKAY. AT SOME POINT DID YOU PICK UP THOSE WHOLE BLOOD SAMPLES?

# 258 A:

YES.

# 259 Q:

WOULD THESE BE ITEMS OR EVIDENCE ITEMS 59 AND 60?

# 260 A:

I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PROPERTY REPORT TO CONFIRM THAT.

# 261 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 262 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: PLEASE REVIEW YOUR PROPERTY REPORTS, DETECTIVE.

# 263 A:

YES, SIR. (WITNESS COMPLIES.) YES, THAT WOULD BE ITEM 59 AND 60 OF THE PROPERTY REPORT; THAT'S CORRECT.

# 264 Q:

AND ON JUNE 15TH, THE DAY FOLLOWING THE AUTOPSY, YOU PICKED THOSE TWO ITEMS UP FROM THE CORONER'S LAB?

# 265 A:

YES.

# 266 Q:

OKAY. WHERE DID YOU TAKE THOSE TWO ITEMS?

# 267 A:

I HAND-CARRIED THEM TO SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION DIVISION SEROLOGY DEPARTMENT.

# 268 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU CAUSE THEM TO BE BOOKED THERE AT THE LAPD CRIME LAB?

# 269 A:

I DID, YES.

# 270 Q:

YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER, DETECTIVE, THAT ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 13TH THAT IT TOOK YOU APPROXIMATELY SIX MINUTES TO DRIVE FROM BUNDY TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 271 A:

I THINK I TESTIFIED APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES.

# 272 Q:

AND SINCE THAT DATE, SINCE JUNE 13, 1994, HAVE YOU BEEN PART OF ANY ATTEMPT TO ASCERTAIN HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO DRIVE FROM BUNDY TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 273 A:

YES.

# 274 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE A VIDEO.

# 275 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 276 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT?

# 277 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 278 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, IT IS NOT ON VIDEO; IT IS ON LASER. IT DEPICTS DETECTIVE VANNATTER DRIVING FROM ROCKINGHAM TO BUNDY AND BUNDY BACK TO ROCKINGHAM. IT IS A TIMED DRIVE. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 125?

# 279 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 280 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: BEFORE WE SHOW THIS, DETECTIVE, ON WHAT DATE WAS THIS PRODUCED, IF YOU KNOW? WHAT DAY DID YOU DRIVE FROM ROCKINGHAM TO BUNDY AND BUNDY BACK TO ROCKINGHAM FOR PURPOSES OF THIS LASER DEMONSTRATION?

# 281 A:

THE EVENING OF SEPTEMBER 25, 1994.

# 282 MR. DARDEN:

MAY WE PROCEED?

# 283 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN, MRS. ROBERTSON WAS JUST REMINDING ME THAT WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY MARKED THE SEGMENT THAT IS ROCKINGHAM TO BUNDY AS 118 AND BUNDY TO ROCKINGHAM AS 119.

# 284 MR. DARDEN:

THIS WOULD BE THEN 119.

# 285 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 286 MR. DARDEN:

AND THEN 118, YOUR HONOR.

# 287 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. PROCEED.

# 288 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU.

# 289 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 290 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 291 (AT 9:44 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 119, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

# 292 THE COURT:

WHERE IS THE AUDIO? (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 293 (THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.)

# 294 (AT 9:50 A.M. THE PLAYING OF THE VIDEOTAPE CONCLUDES.)

# 295 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, DETECTIVE, IN PRODUCING THIS VIDEO, DID YOU HONOR THE TRAFFIC LAWS?

# 296 A:

YES, I DID.

# 297 Q:

YOU HONORED THE SPEED LIMIT?

# 298 A:

YES, SIR.

# 299 Q:

WHAT WAS YOUR APPROXIMATE SPEED?

# 300 A:

NEVER OVER 35 MILES AN HOUR.

# 301 Q:

OKAY. I NOTICED IN THE VIDEO THAT YOU STOPPED ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 302 A:

YES.

# 303 Q:

WHY DID YOU STOP?

# 304 A:

FOR TRAFFIC LIGHTS.

# 305 Q:

AND AT THE END OF THE VIDEO I HEARD YOU STATE THAT YOU WERE IN THE NORTHBOUND ALLEY BEHIND 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

# 306 A:

YES, SIR.

# 307 Q:

OKAY. YOU ARE FACING NORTH?

# 308 A:

YES.

# 309 Q:

WAS THAT THE ONLY ALLEY THAT YOU DROVE THROUGH DURING THIS INITIAL DRIVE?

# 310 A:

YES.

# 311 Q:

OKAY. HAVE YOU ATTEMPTED TO DRIVE FROM ROCKINGHAM TO BUNDY AT A SPEED HIGHER THAN 35 MILES AN HOUR?

# 312 A:

NO, I HAVE NOT.

# 313 Q:

HAVE YOU ATTEMPTED TO TIME THE DRIVE FROM ROCKINGHAM TO BUNDY UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU HAVEN'T HAD TO STOP FOR STOP LIGHTS?

# 314 A:

NO, SIR.

# 315 Q:

NOW, ARE YOU SUGGESTING TO US THAT THIS IS THE ONLY ROUTE FROM BUNDY TO ROCKINGHAM OR FROM ROCKINGHAM TO BUNDY, RATHER?

# 316 A:

NO, THAT IS ONE OF SEVERAL.

# 317 Q:

OKAY. DO YOU KNOW THE EXACT ROUTE THE DEFENDANT TOOK THAT NIGHT?

# 318 MR. SHAPIRO:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

# 319 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 320 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, IF WE COULD PLAY THE SECOND HALF OF THE VIDEO, PEOPLE'S 119.

# 321 MR. FAIRTLOUGH:

118.

# 322 MR. DARDEN:

PEOPLE'S 118, THE RETURN TRIP TO ROCKINGHAM.

# 323 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

# 324 (AT 9:52 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 118, A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

# 325 (AT 9:59 A.M. THE PLAYING OF THE VIDEOTAPE CONCLUDES.)

# 326 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: SO DETECTIVE, IN THE VIDEO HERE IT TOOK YOU FIVE MINUTES AND 22 SECONDS TO DRIVE FROM BUNDY TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 327 A:

YES, THAT WAS THE TIMING OF IT.

# 328 Q:

OKAY. BUT IT TOOK YOU FIVE MINUTES AND 55 SECONDS TO DRIVE FROM ROCKINGHAM TO BUNDY; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 329 A:

YES.

# 330 Q:

OR THEREABOUTS. THIS IS A VARIATION IN THE TIMES; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 331 A:

I WOULD SAY SO, YES.

# 332 Q:

IF YOU KNOW, DETECTIVE, ARE THERE SHORTER ROUTES OR OTHER ROUTES THAT COULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM BUNDY TO ROCKINGHAM?

# 333 A:

WELL, THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER WAYS THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN DRIVEN, YES.

# 334 Q:

OKAY. AND THE ROUTE THAT YOU DROVE HERE IN THE VIDEO, WERE YOU ATTEMPTING TO GIVE US THE SHORTEST TIME POSSIBLE?

# 335 A:

NO. I WAS JUST ATTEMPTING TO DRIVE TO THE LOCATION TO FIND OUT HOW LONG IT TOOK BETWEEN THE TWO ADDRESSES.

# 336 Q:

OKAY. THERE ARE SIDE STREETS THAT YOU COULD HAVE TAKEN?

# 337 A:

YES.

# 338 Q:

AND THE MAP THAT WE SEE HERE IN THE VIDEO, DOES THAT MAP INCLUDE ALLEYWAYS THAT ARE IN THE AREA?

# 339 A:

IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO, NO.

# 340 Q:

ARE THERE ALLEYS AND ALLEYWAYS IN THAT AREA?

# 341 A:

WELL, I'M SURE THERE ARE. I DON'T SPECIFICALLY RECALL THEM, BUT I'M SURE THERE ARE SOME ALLEYS THERE, YES.

# 342 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU. THAT IS ALL I HAVE, YOUR HONOR.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Philip Vannatter

I COULDN'T BOOK IT AT THAT POINT. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY ITEM NUMBER, I DIDN'T HAVE A DR NUMBER. I KNEW THAT THE CRIMINALIST WAS AT ROCKINGHAM AND AS SOON AS THE CRIMINALIST TAKES CUSTODY OF THE EVIDENCE ITEM, ESSENTIALLY I CONSIDER THAT BOOKED. I KNEW HE WAS THERE. I HAND CARRIED IT TO HIM FOR THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY AND TO PROTECT THAT PIECE OF EVIDENCE.

Vannatter's justification for taking OJ's blood sample out to Rockingham — a decision the defense would later use to suggest the blood was planted.

Philip Vannatter

PROBABLE CAUSE IS A STRONG AND HONEST SUSPICION THAT WOULD LEAD A REASONABLE PERSON TO BELIEVE THAT THE SUSPECT IS INVOLVED IN THE CRIME THAT YOU ARE INVESTIGATING.

Vannatter defines probable cause and confirms he had it against Simpson on June 13, while also conceding he wanted more before taking the case to the DA.

Philip Vannatter

KNOWING THE FILING POLICY OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THEY WANT MORE THAN PROBABLE CAUSE. THEY WANT EVIDENCE THAT WILL LEAD TO A CONVICTION, WHICH IS MUCH FARTHER THAN PROBABLE CAUSE EVIDENCE.

Explains the gap between June 13 (probable cause existed) and June 17 (case presented to DA), framing it as standard procedure rather than investigative weakness.

Philip Vannatter

NO. THAT LOOKS LIKE THE TRAVEL BAG THAT MR. SIMPSON RETURNED TO THE LOCATION WITH.

Vannatter corrects his own initial description of what Detective Roberts was holding in the handcuff video, identifying it as Simpson's travel bag — which Vannatter then seized.

Evidence (8)

People's 123

Photograph of the defendant's injured finger as it appeared on June 13

displayed on ELMO, discussed

People's 123-A

Close-up copy photograph of the defendant's finger injury

introduced

People's 124

Videotape of OJ Simpson being handcuffed at Rockingham on June 13, 1994

introduced and played (without audio per defense agreement)

People's 119

Timed laser/video of Vannatter driving from Rockingham to Bundy on September 25, 1994 (5 min 55 sec)

played

People's 118

Timed laser/video of Vannatter driving from Bundy to Rockingham on September 25, 1994 (5 min 22 sec)

played

Informal

OJ Simpson's blood sample taken by nurse at the jail dispensary after 3:00 PM on June 13

discussed — chain of custody traced from jail to Rockingham criminalist

+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (4)

Christopher Darden•Philip Vannatter

Darden walks Vannatter through the chain of custody rationale for carrying the blood sample to Rockingham, establishing that Vannatter had no DR number or item number yet and was protecting the evidence's integrity — preempting the defense's planting narrative.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Philip Vannatter

Frame-by-frame review of the handcuff videotape with Vannatter identifying Officer Thompson, Detective Roberts, attorney Howard Weitzman, and Simpson's travel bag. Vannatter corrects himself mid-playback, first calling the bag a notebook.

methodical

Christopher Darden•Philip Vannatter

Darden asks directly whether Vannatter 'rushed to judgment' — referencing Cochran's opening — and Vannatter flatly denies it.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Philip Vannatter

Presentation of timed drive videos showing Bundy to Rockingham takes roughly five and a half minutes at legal speed with stops for traffic lights, establishing the timeline window for the prosecution's theory.

strategic

Light Moments (3)

Christopher Darden

Darden says 'Bless you' mid-examination — apparently someone sneezed in the courtroom.

Lance A. Ito

Ito notes mid-playback: 'It appears we just ran the tape backwards a little.'

Marcia Clark / Carl Douglas / Lance A. Ito

Brief squabble between Clark, Douglas, and Ito over whether the close-up finger photo should be marked 123-A or 123-B, resolved by the clerk.

Witness Demeanor

(NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) — when asked what time the finger photograph was taken

(NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) — when asked what Vannatter was reaching for in the video

(WITNESS COMPLIES.) — keeping eyes on video screen as instructed by Darden

Objections

5 objections (2 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 5337 • 342 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103