Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 6)

📄 Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 6) — Monday, March 20, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\20\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-VA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 41 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of Philip Vannatter (part 5) Jury instruction: adjournment ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Robert Shapiro
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Monday, March 20, 1995 • Utterances: 233

Robert Shapiro cross-examines Detective Vannatter about the decision to enter the Rockingham estate without a warrant, methodically exposing the lack of standard police procedures: no protective gear, no shotguns, no coordinated entry plan, and no contemporaneous time records. The detective repeatedly retreats to a distinction between 'emergency' and 'tactical' situations to justify improvised decision-making, while Shapiro uses the detective's own prior testimony to highlight contradictions between the claimed urgency and the casual, unprepared manner of entry.

# 1 A:

NO, I DIDN'T.

# 2 Q:

ISN'T THAT PROPER POLICE PROCEDURE?

# 3 A:

THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THE SITUATION.

# 4 Q:

WELL, YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED UNDER OATH THAT YOU THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE SUSPECTS RELATED TO THE MURDER OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AT THE O.J. SIMPSON RESIDENCE, HAVE YOU NOT?

# 5 A:

I WAS NOT REALLY CONCERNED WITH SUSPECTS AT THAT TIME. I WAS CONCERNED WITH THE WELFARE OF THE OCCUPANTS OF THE HOME.

# 6 Q:

MY QUESTION WAS HAVE YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED THERE MAY BE SUSPECTS?

# 7 A:

WELL, THERE COULD HAVE BEEN SUSPECTS THERE. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS THERE.

# 8 Q:

MY QUESTION WAS HAVE YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED THERE WERE SUSPECTS THERE?

# 9 A:

LIKE I SAID, SIR, THERE COULD HAVE BEEN SUSPECTS THERE. THERE COULD HAVE BEEN VICTIMS. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS THERE.

# 10 Q:

AND IT COULD HAVE BEEN A MURDER -- ANOTHER MURDER SCENE? YOU HAVE TESTIFIED TO THAT PREVIOUSLY?

# 11 A:

CERTAINLY COULD HAVE, YES.

# 12 Q:

AND PEOPLE COULD BE DYING THERE? YOU HAVE HEARD THAT TESTIFIED TO BY OTHER OFFICERS, HAVE YOU NOT?

# 13 A:

WELL, THAT WAS MY FEELING, TOO. THAT WAS ONE OF THE POSSIBILITIES.

# 14 Q:

PEOPLE COULD BE BLEEDING?

# 15 A:

ABSOLUTELY.

# 16 Q:

YOU COULD HAVE A HOSTAGE SITUATION?

# 17 A:

THAT WAS A POSSIBILITY.

# 18 Q:

YOU COULD HAVE A KIDNAPPING?

# 19 A:

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT RELATED TO A KIDNAPPING. ANY POSSIBLE SCENARIO IS POSSIBLE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANYTHING. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS THERE.

# 20 Q:

NO. I'M ASKING ABOUT WHAT YOU OR OTHERS HAVE PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED COULD HAVE BEEN THE SITUATION OF THE -- REGARDING YOUR STATE OF MIND WHEN YOU WERE AT ROCKINGHAM.

# 21 A:

IS THAT A QUESTION?

# 22 Q:

YES.

# 23 A:

MY STATE OF MIND WAS I WAS CONCERNED WITH THE OCCUPANTS OF THE HOME. I WAS CONCERNED THAT I WOULD HAVE ANOTHER CRIME SCENE, PEOPLE COULD BE INJURED, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AN EXTENSION OF THE MURDERS THAT I HAD JUST LEFT.

THERE COULD BE PEOPLE DOWN THERE, COULD BE INJURED PEOPLE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANY SCENARIO.

# 24 Q:

THIS IS WHERE YOUR ADRENALINE REALLY STARTS TO RUSH, DOESN'T IT?

# 25 A:

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS A FAIR STATEMENT WITH ME. I DON'T HAVE BIG ADRENALINE RUSHES.

# 26 Q:

WELL, YOU HAVE BEEN DOING IT LONG ENOUGH?

# 27 A:

WELL, I DON'T EVEN THINK IT IS THAT. I JUST -- I DON'T HAVE BIG ADRENALINE RUSHES.

# 28 Q:

IT MUST HAVE BEEN A PRETTY SCARY SITUATION TO GO IN THAT LOCATION NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS THERE, WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

# 29 A:

EVERY SITUATION YOU GO INTO YOU HAVE BUTTERFLIES BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING INTO.

# 30 Q:

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE SPECIALLY TRAINED FOR THESE SITUATIONS THAT YOU HAVE JUST ENUMERATED, AREN'T THERE?

# 31 A:

THERE ARE PEOPLE SPECIALLY TRAINED FOR TACTICAL SITUATIONS, YES.

# 32 Q:

AREN'T THERE PEOPLE SPECIALLY TRAINED FOR HOSTAGE SITUATIONS?

# 33 A:

TACTICAL SITUATIONS, YES.

# 34 Q:

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, BUT HOSTAGE SITUATIONS, I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

# 35 A:

HOSTAGE SITUATION IS A TACTICAL SITUATION.

# 36 Q:

SO WE ARE SAYING THE SAME THING?

# 37 A:

YEAH.

# 38 Q:

AREN'T THERE PEOPLE SPECIALLY TRAINED IF SOMEBODY IS DYING OR BLEEDING?

# 39 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 40 Q:

HOW TO SAVE LIVES? YOU ARE NOT TRAINED IN THAT, ARE YOU?

# 41 A:

WELL, I'M CPR CERTIFIED.

# 42 Q:

ARE YOU A PARAMEDIC?

# 43 A:

NO, NO, NO. EXCUSE ME. FIRST AID CERTIFIED. I'M SORRY, I MISSPOKE THAT. I THINK TO TAKE THE TIME TO CALL SOMEONE FROM ANOTHER LOCATION TO COME AND CHECK, THAT WOULD BE A DERELICTION OF DUTY. I THINK IT WAS OUR DUTY TO GO IN THERE AND LOOK AND SEE IF SOMETHING WAS WRONG.

# 44 Q:

WELL, YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN OUT THERE FOR 35 MINUTES AND SEEM TO BE PRETTY CASUAL ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON. NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO MAKE A PHONE CALL WITH ONE OF FOUR UNITS TO CALL FOR A BACK-UP UNIT OR A COMMAND POST AND SAY, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE HAVE BUT WE BETTER GET SOME MORE SUPPORT HERE. WE BETTER GET SOME PARAMEDICS, WE BETTER GET SOME EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT. I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT WE HAVE BUT I'M TELLING YOU MY INSTINCTS AS A DETECTIVE TELL ME IT IS SERIOUS."

# 45 A:

WE CALLED FOR A BACK-UP UNIT. WE HAD A BLACK AND WHITE UNIT THERE.

# 46 Q:

WELL, THAT WAS ALREADY THERE?

# 47 A:

WE CALLED FOR THEM.

# 48 Q:

THAT WAS BEFORE YOU DECIDED IT WAS AN EMERGENCY?

# 49 A:

NO. THAT WAS PART OF THE PROCESS. THAT WAS -- THE EMERGENCY CAME BACK FROM A SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT DIDN'T ALL OCCUR AT ONE TIME. THAT WAS A SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT OCCURRED OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.

# 50 Q:

SO YOU HAD A PATROL VEHICLE THERE?

# 51 A:

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 52 Q:

SPECIALLY TRAINED OFFICERS OR NOT?

# 53 A:

UNIFORMED POLICE OFFICERS.

# 54 Q:

HOW MANY?

# 55 A:

TWO.

# 56 Q:

AND DID YOU GIVE THEM ANY DIRECTION AT THE TIME THEY ARRIVED?

# 57 A:

I DON'T THINK I TALKED TO THEM WHEN THEY FIRST ARRIVED. I DON'T THINK I ACTUALLY SPOKE TO THEM.

# 58 Q:

YOU CALLED FOR THEM, IT WAS AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, YOU HAD TO COME OUT, BUT YOU DIDN'T TELL THEM WHAT TO DO?

# 59 A:

I THINK -- I THINK WE ARE TALKING SEMANTICS. I THINK YOU ARE RELATING TO A TACTICAL SITUATION. I'M TALKING ABOUT AN EMERGENCY SITUATION. THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

# 60 Q:

WELL, LET'S SAY IT WAS AN EMERGENCY SITUATION THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO. IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION YOU'VE CALLED FOR A BLACK AND WHITE BACK-UP, THEY COME AND RUSH TO THE LOCATION AND YOU DON'T TELL THEM WHAT TO DO, WHAT THE EMERGENCY IS?

# 61 A:

AGAIN, I THINK -- I THINK WE ARE TALKING SEMANTICS. I THINK WHAT YOU ARE -- WHAT YOU ARE RELATING TO IS A TACTICAL SITUATION WHERE YOU KNOW THE SITUATION THAT YOU HAVE, AND YOU COULD SAY THAT YOU HAVE A TACTICAL SITUATION THAT IS AN EMERGENCY IF YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A SUSPECT OR YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A HOSTAGE OR YOU KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU HAVE SOMEONE THAT IS INJURED. WE DIDN'T KNOW ALL THESE THINGS. THIS WAS A SITUATION THAT HAD TO BE DETERMINED.

# 62 Q:

OH, YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN BEING PREPARED?

# 63 A:

I DON'T -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND I DON'T BELIEVE IN BEING PREPARED. I THINK -- I THINK I GO INTO EVERY SITUATION ATTEMPTING TO BE PREPARED.

# 64 Q:

SO AT THAT POINT IN TIME DID YOU ALONE DETERMINE THAT IT WAS TIME TO JUMP OVER THE WALL?

# 65 A:

THAT WAS A DECISION THAT WAS MADE FROM SPEAKING WITH MY PARTNER AND THE OTHER TWO DETECTIVES.

# 66 Q:

SO IT WAS A JOINT DECISION BY YOU, MARK FUHRMAN AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

# 67 A:

MAINLY MYSELF AND DETECTIVE LANGE.

# 68 Q:

WELL, WHEN YOU SAY "MAINLY," DID ALL OF YOU DISCUSS IT OR JUST THE TWO OF YOU?

# 69 A:

WELL, WE WERE ALL STANDING THERE TALKING. IT WAS A DECISION THAT WAS LEFT UP TO MYSELF AND LANGE.

# 70 Q:

AND YOU BOTH SAID, "LET'S GO IN"?

# 71 A:

EXACTLY.

# 72 Q:

AND YOU ELECTED MARK FUHRMAN, BECAUSE HE WAS THE YOUNGEST AND THE MOST ATHLETIC, TO CLIMB THE WALL?

# 73 A:

THAT IS PART OF THE REASON, YES.

# 74 Q:

DID HE HAVE ANY PROTECTIVE GEAR ON WHEN HE WENT OVER THE WALL?

# 75 A:

NO, HE DID NOT.

# 76 Q:

DID YOU HAVE ANY PROTECTIVE GEAR ON BACKING HIM UP?

# 77 A:

NO.

# 78 Q:

DID ANY OF THE OTHER TWO OFFICERS, DETECTIVES THERE, HAVE PROTECTIVE GEAR ON?

# 79 A:

NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

# 80 Q:

DID ANYBODY PULL OUT ANY SHOTGUNS TO BACK THEM UP IN CASE YOU WERE GOING TO ENCOUNTER A SUSPECT OR SUSPECTS INSIDE?

# 81 A:

NO.

# 82 Q:

DID YOU NOTIFY THE TWO UNIFORMED OFFICERS TO COME UP AND BACK YOU UP, THAT YOU ARE GOING IN NOW?

# 83 A:

I THINK THEY WERE CALLED TO THE GATE TO STAND BY THE GATE, YES.

# 84 Q:

THEY WERE?

# 85 A:

YES, I BELIEVE SO.

# 86 Q:

WHERE IN YOUR REPORT DID YOU INDICATE THAT?

# 87 A:

I DON'T KNOW THAT I DID.

# 88 Q:

WHERE IN YOUR PREVIOUS TESTIMONY HAVE YOU SAID THAT?

# 89 A:

I SAID I THINK THEY WERE CALLED TO THE ASHFORD GATE OR THEY CAME OVER THERE ON THEIR OWN WHEN WE WENT OVER THE FENCE.

# 90 Q:

ARE YOU TELLING THIS JURY THAT YOU DID NOT SIT DOWN WITH TWO UNIFORMED OFFICERS, TELL THEM WHAT THE EMERGENCY WAS AND GIVE THEM INSTRUCTIONS TO COVER YOUR BACK BECAUSE YOU FOUR GUYS ARE GOING IN?

# 91 A:

THEY WERE TOLD WE WERE GOING IN.

# 92 Q:

DID YOU TELL THEM WHAT TO DO?

# 93 A:

TO STAND BY THE GATE.

# 94 Q:

JUST TO STAND THERE?

# 95 A:

YEAH.

# 96 Q:

DID YOU TELL THEM TO GET SHOTGUNS, GET READY, THIS IS WHAT WE'VE GOT, GUYS, THIS IS A POTENTIAL EMERGENCY?

# 97 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 98 Q:

YOU NEVER SAID THAT, DID YOU?

# 99 A:

NO. AGAIN, MR. SHAPIRO, I THINK YOU ARE -- I THINK YOU ARE CONFUSING AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WITH A TACTICAL SITUATION. IF I WOULD HAVE HAD A TACTICAL SITUATION AND KNEW THAT I HAD A SUSPECT OR KNEW THAT I HAD A HOSTAGE OR KNEW THAT I HAD A MURDER SUSPECT IN THERE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED TOTALLY DIFFERENT. THIS WAS A SITUATION WHERE I WAS WORRIED THAT SOMETHING HAD OCCURRED THERE POSSIBLY LIKE HAD OCCURRED AT BUNDY.

# 100 Q:

ALL RIGHT. SO NOW YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF O.J. SIMPSON AND THE MAID AND YOU ARE GOING IN TO SAY WHERE IS O.J. AND WHERE IS THE MAID, RIGHT?

# 101 A:

WHERE IS ANYBODY THAT MAY BE AT THAT LOCATION.

# 102 Q:

WELL, YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS EXPECTED TO BE THERE, DID YOU?

# 103 A:

I HAD NO IDEA, NO.

# 104 Q:

SO YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR? IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY?

# 105 A:

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HAD OCCURRED THERE, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 106 Q:

SO YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE DOING THERE, DID YOU?

# 107 A:

YES, I DID.

# 108 Q:

WHAT WERE YOU DOING THERE?

# 109 A:

I WENT THERE ORIGINALLY TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION, TO MEET MR. SIMPSON. THE TWO DETECTIVES WERE ASSISTING ME. ONCE I GOT THERE, THE SITUATION CHANGED WITH THE INFORMATION WE HAD RECEIVED AND THE EVIDENCE THAT WE SAW.

# 110 Q:

AND NOW YOU ARE GOING IN TO LOOK FOR PEOPLE?

# 111 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 112 Q:

YOU GO TO THE FRONT DOOR AND RING THE FRONT DOORBELL?

# 113 A:

YES.

# 114 Q:

YOU GET NO RESPONSE?

# 115 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 116 Q:

DO YOU FORCE ENTRY?

# 117 A:

NO.

# 118 Q:

WHY NOT?

# 119 A:

BECAUSE AT THAT POINT I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS APPROPRIATE.

# 120 Q:

WELL, YOU WERE VERY CONCERNED AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WEREN'T YOU?

# 121 A:

YES. WE WERE MAKING -- WE WERE MAKING ARRANGEMENTS FOR A POSSIBLE FORCED ENTRY OF THE PLACE.

# 122 Q:

WHERE HAVE YOU TESTIFIED TO THAT PREVIOUSLY? YOU DIDN'T TELL THE GRAND JURY THAT, DID YOU?

# 123 MR. DARDEN:

OBJECTION.

# 124 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 125 Q:

BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHERE IN YOUR REPORTS DID YOU INDICATE THAT YOU WERE MAKING ARRANGEMENTS FOR A FORCED ENTRY, SIR?

# 126 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS IN THE REPORTS.

# 127 Q:

WHO DID YOU NOTIFY AT POLICE HEADQUARTERS OR COMMUNICATIONS THAT YOU WERE PREPARING A FORCED ENTRY?

# 128 A:

NO ONE.

# 129 Q:

WHAT PREPARATIONS DID YOU MAKE FOR A FORCED ENTRY?

# 130 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CONTACTED THE WATCH COMMANDER AND ASKED HIM TO SEND A WESTEC UNIT BACK TO THE LOCATION, THAT WE MAY HAVE TO MAKE FORCED ENTRY INTO THE LOCATION.

# 131 Q:

SO FOR AN EMERGENCY SITUATION LIKE THIS NOW YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THE SECURITY OF WESTEC GOING IN WITH YOU? IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY?

# 132 A:

WELL, WE HAD -- AT THAT POINT WE HAD SIX POLICE OFFICERS THERE, SIR.

# 133 Q:

WELL, YOU HAD 25 STANDING AROUND THE MURDER SCENE, DIDN'T YOU?

KEY QUOTE

# 134 A:

YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 135 Q:

DID YOU CALL ANY OF THEM OVER?

# 136 A:

NO.

# 137 Q:

THEY WERE ONLY FIVE MINUTES AWAY, WEREN'T THEY?

# 138 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 139 Q:

WHEN YOU WENT IN, DID YOU START MAKING SOME NOISE TO TRY TO AROUSE THE OCCUPANTS?

# 140 A:

YES. WE WERE TALKING, WE WERE KNOCKING ON DOORS.

# 141 Q:

WERE YOU YELLING?

# 142 A:

NO.

# 143 Q:

WERE YOU MAKING YOUR PRESENCE KNOWN?

# 144 A:

WELL, I THINK OUR PRESENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN KNOWN. WE HAD FLASHLIGHT. WE WERE TALKING, WE WERE KNOCKING ON DOORS, WE WERE MOVING AROUND THE GROUNDS.

# 145 Q:

YOU WERE TALKING TO EACH OTHER, WEREN'T YOU?

# 146 A:

THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

# 147 Q:

YOU WEREN'T KNOCKING, "O.J., ARE YOU HERE? IS THERE ANY PROBLEM? ARE YOU OKAY?" WERE YOU DOING THOSE THINGS?

# 148 A:

NO.

# 149 Q:

DID YOU DECIDE WHERE TO GO, WHERE FOUR OFFICERS COMING IN VIRTUALLY UNPROTECTED ARE GOING TO WALK AROUND THIS ENORMOUS ESTATE IN THE DARKNESS? DID YOU MAKE ANY PLAN AS TO HOW YOU WERE GOING TO PROTECT YOURSELVES?

# 150 A:

THAT IS PART OF OUR JOB TO DO THINGS LIKE THAT. THE PROTECTION IS PROBABLY BY NUMBERS. THERE WAS NO SET PLAN.

# 151 Q:

SO YOU DIDN'T SAY, YOU KNOW, ONE GUY WILL GO TO THIS SIDE AND I WILL BACK HIM UP AND YOU AND YOUR PARTNER WILL GO HERE, WE WILL BACK YOU UP? IT IS JUST OKAY, GUYS, LET'S SEE WHAT YOU CAN FIND AND YOU STARTED WALKING AROUND?

# 152 A:

I NEVER HAD THE FEELING THAT I WAS IN A DANGEROUS SITUATION AT ANY POINT. I FELT THAT I MAY HAVE AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, BUT I NEVER FELT A PERSONAL DANGER AT THAT LOCATION.

KEY QUOTE

# 153 Q:

DID YOU WANT TO MOVE QUICKLY?

# 154 A:

WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS TRUE. I WAS TRYING TO LOOK THE GROUNDS OVER TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANYTHING ON THE GROUNDS AS I WAS MOVING.

# 155 Q:

DID YOU TELL EVERYBODY, "LET'S CHECK THE GROUNDS FIRST?" WAS THAT YOUR PLAN?

# 156 A:

WELL, I THINK THAT IS -- I THINK THAT IS JUST TYPICAL POLICE WORK. AS YOU ARE MOVING, YOU ARE LOOKING. I WAS SHINING MY LIGHT UNDER THE TREES AND EVERYTHING TO SEE IF I COULD SEE ANYTHING.

# 157 Q:

WELL. FIRST OF ALL, WHEN YOU COME IN RIGHT TO THE RIGHT YOU SEE A PLAYHOUSE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 158 A:

YES.

# 159 Q:

AND YOU HAVE BEEN INSIDE THAT PLAYHOUSE, HAVEN'T YOU?

# 160 A:

I'VE BEEN BESIDE OF IT. I DON'T KNOW THAT I WAS INSIDE.

# 161 Q:

HAVE YOU SEEN PEOPLE INSIDE IT? IS IT BIG ENOUGH FOR SOMEBODY TO WALK INTO?

# 162 A:

YES.

# 163 Q:

I TAKE IT THAT IS THE FIRST PLACE WHERE YOU WOULD WANT TO LOOK, INSIDE THAT PLAYHOUSE, TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY PROBLEM; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 164 A:

WE WEREN'T LOOKING ALL OVER THE GROUNDS.

# 165 Q:

SO YOU WEREN'T IN THE PLAYHOUSE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 166 A:

NO, I DIDN'T.

# 167 Q:

DID YOU OPEN THE DOOR OF THE PLAYHOUSE?

# 168 A:

NO.

# 169 Q:

DID YOU KNOCK ON THE PLAYHOUSE?

# 170 A:

NO.

# 171 Q:

DID YOU JUST SIMPLY IGNORE THE PLAYHOUSE?

# 172 A:

THE MAIN CONCERN WAS THE RESIDENCE AT THAT POINT.

# 173 Q:

AND ALL FOUR OF YOU WENT TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE TOGETHER?

# 174 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 175 Q:

HOW LONG DID YOU STAY AT THE FRONT DOOR?

# 176 A:

TWO, THREE MINUTES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

# 177 Q:

RINGING THE BELL?

# 178 A:

RINGING THE BELL, KNOCKING ON THE DOOR, YEAH.

# 179 Q:

BUT NOT YELLING OR SHOUTING OR ASKING FOR ANYONE INSIDE?

# 180 A:

NO.

# 181 Q:

THEN WHERE DID YOU GO?

# 182 A:

MYSELF PERSONALLY?

# 183 Q:

YEAH, YOU.

# 184 A:

I WALKED BACK OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY AND WALKED NORTH TO THE EAST/WEST WALKWAY THAT WALKS ALONG THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

# 185 Q:

SHINING YOUR FLASHLIGHT, LOOKING IN THE BUSHES, LOOKING IN THE SHRUBBERY?

# 186 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 187 Q:

WAS IT DARK BACK THERE?

# 188 A:

YEAH, IT WAS DARK.

# 189 Q:

WAS THAT KIND OF UNNERVING FOR YOU?

# 190 A:

NO.

# 191 Q:

NOT KNOWING WHAT YOU HAD BACK THERE?

# 192 A:

I THINK I TESTIFIED I DIDN'T FEEL ANY PERSONAL DANGER AT ANY TIME THAT NIGHT.

# 193 Q:

SO THERE WOULD BE NO NEED AT ANY TIME FOR YOU TO EVER DRAW A GUN AT THAT LOCATION, WOULD THERE?

# 194 A:

I NEVER FELT THAT NEED, NO.

# 195 Q:

DID YOU TELL ANYBODY TO GO KNOCK ON ANY OTHER DOORS?

# 196 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

# 197 Q:

WAS ANY INSTRUCTION GIVEN BY YOU OR DETECTIVE LANGE AS THE LEAD DETECTIVES THERE?

# 198 A:

WAS THAT A QUESTION?

# 199 Q:

YEAH?

# 200 A:

WAS THERE ANY INSTRUCTION?

# 201 Q:

RIGHT.

# 202 A:

NO. I THINK WE WERE WORKING AS A GROUP.

# 203 Q:

KIND OF IMPROVISING AS YOU WENT ALONG?

KEY QUOTE

# 204 A:

LOOKING -- LOOKING THE GROUNDS OVER, LOOKING FOR PEOPLE, YES.

# 205 Q:

HOW LONG DID YOU SPEND LOOKING IN THE GROUNDS LOOKING FOR PEOPLE?

# 206 A:

WELL, THIS HAPPENED UNTIL -- THIS HAPPENED THE ENTIRE TIME WE WERE THERE. WHEN I WAS OUTSIDE I WAS LOOKING AROUND.

# 207 Q:

HOW LONG WERE YOU OUTSIDE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE?

# 208 A:

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY. THAT IS A -- WE WALKED AROUND THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE TO THE BACK. I WAS SHINING MY LIGHT. MAYBE -- MAYBE FIVE OR TEN MINUTES TOTAL I LOOKED THE GROUNDS OVER.

# 209 Q:

WAS THAT ENOUGH TIME TO LOOK EVERYWHERE IN THOSE GROUNDS?

# 210 A:

WELL, AT SOME POINT THERE EVERYBODY THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE LOCATION HAD BEEN ACCOUNTED FOR AND THAT IS WHEN I STOPPED LOOKING AROUND.

# 211 Q:

BUT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE INJURED?

# 212 A:

AGAIN, AT A POINT PEOPLE THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE WERE ACCOUNTED FOR AND THAT IS WHEN I STOPPED LOOKING AROUND.

# 213 Q:

WHEN WAS O.J. SIMPSON ACCOUNTED FOR? WHAT TIME?

# 214 A:

AFTER 6:00 IN THE MORNING.

# 215 Q:

WHAT TIME WAS HE ACCOUNTED FOR, SIR?

# 216 A:

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME THE PHONE CALL WAS MADE.

# 217 Q:

YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RECORDS REGARDING WHAT TIME THE PHONE CALL WAS MADE?

# 218 A:

YEAH. THERE ARE PHONE RECORDS, YES.

# 219 Q:

YOU HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THOSE?

# 220 A:

NO, I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM IN FRONT OF ME.

# 221 Q:

YOU DON'T THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THIS CASE?

# 222 A:

I CAN LOOK AT THE PHONE RECORDS AND TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT TIME THE PHONE CALL WAS MADE.

# 223 Q:

YOU DIDN'T KEEP ANY RECORDS REGARDING WHAT TIME YOU DID ANYTHING AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION, DID YOU?

# 224 A:

KEEP ANY RECORD AS TO TIME?

# 225 Q:

TIME ANYTHING HAPPENED AT ROCKINGHAM?

# 226 A:

WELL, THAT IS NOT TRUE.

# 227 Q:

YOU DID KEEP SUCH RECORDS?

# 228 A:

THERE IS -- THERE IS A SEARCH WARRANT THAT INDICATES ITEMS THAT WERE FOUND THERE, YES.

# 229 Q:

NO. DID YOU KEEP ANY RECORDS AS TO WHAT TIME YOU DID THINGS AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION, WHAT TIME YOU ARRIVED, WHAT TIME YOU WENT TO THE BRONCO, WHAT TIME YOU DID EVERYTHING YOU HAVE TESTIFIED TO? ARE THERE ANY SUCH RECORDS, SIR?

# 230 A:

OTHER THAN PHONE RECORDS, NO.

KEY QUOTE

# 231 Q:

AND ISN'T THAT PART OF GOOD RECORD KEEPING, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CHRONOLOGICAL RECORD IS IN ORDER FOR ALL IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF THIS CASE?

# 232 A:

THAT IS PART OF RECORD KEEPING, YES.

# 233 MR. SHAPIRO:

IS THIS A GOOD PLACE TO STOP, YOUR HONOR?

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Witness

I NEVER HAD THE FEELING THAT I WAS IN A DANGEROUS SITUATION AT ANY POINT. I FELT THAT I MAY HAVE AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, BUT I NEVER FELT A PERSONAL DANGER AT THAT LOCATION.

Undercuts the 'exigent circumstances' justification for warrantless entry — if there was no personal danger, the urgency rationale collapses.

Witness

THERE WAS NO SET PLAN.

Concession that four detectives entered an unknown situation at a potential crime scene with no coordinated plan, supporting defense argument the entry was improper.

Examiner

YOU HAD 25 STANDING AROUND THE MURDER SCENE, DIDN'T YOU? DID YOU CALL ANY OF THEM OVER? THEY WERE ONLY FIVE MINUTES AWAY, WEREN'T THEY?

Shapiro uses simple arithmetic to demolish the 'no resources available' defense of the unprotected entry.

Witness

OTHER THAN PHONE RECORDS, NO.

Admission that no contemporaneous time logs were kept of actions at Rockingham, undermining the reliability of the entire Rockingham timeline.

Examiner

KIND OF IMPROVISING AS YOU WENT ALONG?

Shapiro's summary of the entire Rockingham entry — the witness essentially agrees, saying they were 'looking the grounds over, looking for people, yes.'

Evidence (3)

Informal

Phone records showing what time OJ Simpson was contacted/reached

discussed — witness admits he has not reviewed them

Informal

Search warrant listing items found at Rockingham

referenced by witness as the only record of Rockingham activities

Informal

Detective's prior reports on Rockingham entry procedures

challenged — Shapiro repeatedly asks where specific claims appear in reports; witness frequently cannot point to them

Notable Exchanges (3)

Robert Shapiro•Witness (Vannatter)

Shapiro walks the detective through every missing standard procedure — no protective gear, no shotguns, no coordinated entry plan, no briefing of backup officers, playhouse ignored — extracting a 'no' to each, building a cumulative picture of a chaotic, improvised entry.

strategic

Robert Shapiro•Witness (Vannatter)

Extended back-and-forth over the 'emergency vs. tactical situation' distinction, with the witness clinging to the semantic difference as his only defense while Shapiro repeatedly reframes it to show the same failures apply regardless of which label is used.

revealing

Robert Shapiro•Witness (Vannatter)

Shapiro confronts the witness about having no time records for any actions at Rockingham — arrival, Bronco observation, entry — and the witness admits none exist beyond phone records he hasn't reviewed.

damaging

Light Moments (2)

Witness (Vannatter)

Witness claims to be 'CPR certified,' then immediately corrects himself: 'I'M SORRY, I MISSPOKE THAT. FIRST AID CERTIFIED.' A minor stumble that slightly undermined his attempt to justify not calling paramedics.

Robert Shapiro

Shapiro says 'I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, BUT HOSTAGE SITUATIONS, I KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS,' after the detective substitutes 'tactical situation' for 'hostage situation.' The jury likely appreciated the bluntness.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Witness (Vannatter)

prior inconsistent statement / omission from reports

Shapiro repeatedly asks the witness where specific claims — that they were preparing for forced entry, that uniformed officers were given instructions — appear in his reports or prior testimony. The witness repeatedly cannot point to documentation.

⚔ Witness (Vannatter)

internal inconsistency

The detective simultaneously claimed urgency sufficient to justify warrantless entry while admitting: no protective gear, no shotguns, no plan, no yelling for occupants, playhouse ignored, no time records kept, and no personal sense of danger — Shapiro uses each concession to contradict the urgency narrative.

Witness Demeanor

(NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) — twice, when asked about whether specially trained personnel should handle bleeding/dying victims, and when asked about shotgun preparation

Witness frequently responds to questions with 'IS THAT A QUESTION?' and 'WAS THAT A QUESTION?' — a pattern suggesting evasion or discomfort with the line of inquiry

Objections

1 objections (1 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 5342 • 233 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103