Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (morning)

📄 Direct examination of Philip Vannatter (morning) — Thursday, March 16, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\16\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP-V.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 39 of 167

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Thursday, March 16, 1995 • Utterances: 261

Prosecutor Chris Darden walks Detective Philip Vannatter through his background (26+ years LAPD, Robbery/Homicide Division) and his arrival at 875 South Bundy at 4:05 AM on June 13, 1994. Vannatter describes his initial walk-through of the crime scene with Detective Phillips, detailing what he observed: the victims, a single leather glove, a blue knit cap, a white envelope, bloody shoe prints, blood drops near Nicole's Jeep Cherokee, and an ice cream cup on the staircase banister. The session ends with a break request before Darden has finished the direct.

# 1

DIRECT EXAMINATION

# 2

BY MR. DARDEN:

# 3 Q:

DETECTIVE, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE LAPD?

# 4 A:

YES.

# 5 Q:

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A POLICE OFFICER EMPLOYED BY THE LAPD, SIR?

# 6 A:

26 YEARS PLUS.

# 7 Q:

AND YOU ARE DETECTIVE TOM LANGE'S PARTNER; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 8 A:

YES.

# 9 Q:

AND YOU WERE HIS PARTNER ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 13?

# 10 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 11 Q:

OKAY. NOW, I WOULD RATHER NOT DISCUSS ALL OF YOUR ASSIGNMENTS DURING THE PAST 26 PLUS YEARS, DETECTIVE, BUT WHAT YEAR DID YOU JOIN THE DEPARTMENT?

# 12 A:

IN JANUARY OF 1969.

# 13 Q:

WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO PATROL AFTER THAT?

# 14 A:

YES.

# 15 Q:

WHAT YEAR DID YOU FIRST BECOME A DETECTIVE?

# 16 A:

THE LATTER PART -- LAST PART OF 1971.

# 17 Q:

OKAY. NOW, AT SOME POINT WERE YOU TRANSFERRED TO WEST L.A. DIVISION?

# 18 A:

YES.

# 19 Q:

THE SAME DIVISION WE HAVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT DURING THIS TRIAL?

# 20 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 21 Q:

OKAY. AND DURING WHAT TIME PERIOD WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO WEST L.A. DIVISION?

# 22 A:

I WENT TO WEST L.A. THE LATTER PART OF 1975 AND LEFT THERE THE FIRST COUPLE OF MONTHS OF 1979.

# 23 Q:

OKAY. AND WERE YOU A DETECTIVE THROUGHOUT YOUR ASSIGNMENT TO WEST L.A.?

# 24 A:

YES.

# 25 Q:

YOU NEVER WORKED PATROL?

# 26 A:

NO.

# 27 Q:

YOU NEVER HAD ANY OR PERFORMED ANY PATROL FUNCTIONS?

# 28 A:

NO.

# 29 Q:

AND WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT ASSIGNMENT, SIR?

# 30 A:

I'M A POLICE DETECTIVE, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, ASSIGNED TO ROBBERY/HOMICIDE DIVISION, HOMICIDE SPECIAL SECTION.

# 31 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU HAVE WATCHED SOME PORTIONS OF THIS TRIAL, HAVE YOU?

# 32 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 33 Q:

YOU WATCHED DETECTIVE LANGE TESTIFY TO SOME EXTENT?

# 34 A:

SOME OF HIS TESTIMONY, YES.

# 35 Q:

NOT ALL OF HIS TESTIMONY?

# 36 A:

NO.

# 37 Q:

OKAY. YOU HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE TRIAL, HAVE YOU?

# 38 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 39 Q:

YOU ARE A CO-LEAD INVESTIGATOR IN THIS CASE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 40 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 41 Q:

OKAY. WHAT TIME DID YOU FIRST RECEIVE THE CALL REQUESTING YOU TO RESPOND TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

# 42 A:

THREE O'CLOCK THE MORNING OF JUNE THE 13TH, 1994.

# 43 Q:

OKAY. WHO CALLED YOU?

# 44 A:

LIEUTENANT JOHN ROGERS.

# 45 Q:

OKAY. NOW, WHEN LIEUTENANT ROGERS TELEPHONED YOU DID HE ADVISE YOU OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT BUNDY AS HE UNDERSTOOD THEM TO BE?

# 46 A:

YES.

# 47 Q:

WHAT DID HE SAY?

# 48 A:

LIEUTENANT ROGERS TOLD ME THAT WE WERE ASSUMING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS BELIEVED TO BE NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.

# 49 Q:

OKAY. AND HE TOLD YOU THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON WAS O.J. SIMPSON'S EX-WIFE, DID HE?

# 50 A:

YES.

# 51 Q:

OKAY. AND I TAKE IT THAT YOU CONSIDERED THIS A SERIOUS SITUATION, THAT IS, A FACT THAT THERE WERE TWO DEAD PEOPLE ON BUNDY?

# 52 A:

WELL, I CONSIDER ANY HOMICIDE CALL THAT I GO ON A SERIOUS SITUATION, YES.

# 53 Q:

OKAY. WELL, THE FACT THAT IT INVOLVED NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, DID THAT MAKE THE SITUATION SEEM ANY MORE URGENT OR IMPORTANT IN YOUR MIND?

# 54 A:

THE ONLY THING THAT THAT TRIGGERED IN MY MIND THAT -- KNOWING THAT THERE WAS A CONNECTION TO MR. SIMPSON, THAT THERE WOULD PROBABLY BE A LOT OF MEDIA, YES.

KEY QUOTE

# 55 Q:

OKAY. WELL, AT THAT POINT, THAT IS, WHEN YOU HEARD THAT MISS SIMPSON MIGHT BE A VICTIM, DID YOU THINK IN YOUR MIND THAT PERHAPS YOU SHOULD INVESTIGATE THE CASE DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU WOULD ANY OTHER MURDER CASE?

# 56 A:

NO, SIR. EVERY HOMICIDE CASE IS IMPORTANT.

# 57 Q:

SO WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY, SIR?

# 58 A:

4:05 IN THE MORNING.

# 59 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED, WAS YOUR PARTNER, DETECTIVE LANGE, THERE?

# 60 A:

NO, HE WASN'T.

# 61 Q:

AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED, WHERE DID YOU PARK YOUR VEHICLE?

# 62 A:

I PARKED MY VEHICLE HEADED NORTH ON BUNDY ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET SOUTH OF DOROTHY.

# 63 Q:

AND WERE YOU GREETED BY ANY OTHER DETECTIVES?

# 64 A:

WELL, I APPROACHED TWO DETECTIVES THAT WERE STANDING INSIDE THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY.

# 65 Q:

AND THESE TWO DETECTIVE, WERE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH THEM PREVIOUSLY?

# 66 A:

NO, I DIDN'T KNOW THEM.

# 67 Q:

YOU NEVER MET THEM BEFORE?

# 68 A:

NO.

# 69 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU INTRODUCED YOURSELF TO THESE TWO DETECTIVES?

# 70 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 71 Q:

OKAY. AND WHAT NAMES DID THEY GIVE YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 72 A:

I INTRODUCED MYSELF TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

# 73 Q:

AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT THAT TIME?

# 74 A:

MAINLY WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. HE INTRODUCED HIMSELF AS THE HOMICIDE COORDINATOR OF WEST L.A.

# 75 Q:

OKAY. SO HE WAS THE SUPERVISING DETECTIVE AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 76 A:

THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.

# 77 Q:

WAS FUHRMAN'S SENIOR?

# 78 A:

YES.

# 79 Q:

AND DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS BRIEF YOU ON THE SITUATION AT THAT TIME?

# 80 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 81 Q:

WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?

# 82 A:

HE TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AT THE LOCATION, THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS HAD BEEN IDENTIFIED AS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, THAT TWO MINOR CHILDREN HAD BEEN REMOVED FROM THE RESIDENCE AND HAD BEEN TAKEN TO WEST L.A. DIVISION FOR SAFEKEEPING, AND THAT HE HAD PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN WITH COMMANDER BUSHEY ABOUT A PERSONAL NOTIFICATION. AT THAT TIME I WASN'T REALLY TOO CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

# 83 Q:

OKAY. AND AFTER YOU HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, DID HE TAKE YOU SOMEWHERE?

# 84 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 85 Q:

WHERE DID HE TAKE YOU?

# 86 A:

WELL, I ASKED HIM TO GIVE ME A BRIEF WALK-THROUGH SO I COULD ACCLIMATE MYSELF TO THE CRIME SCENE AFTER I INFORMED HIM THAT WE WERE ASSUMING THE INVESTIGATION.

# 87 Q:

OKAY. NOW, THIS REQUEST OF YOURS, THAT IS FOR A BRIEF WALK-THROUGH --

# 88 A:

YES.

# 89 Q:

-- OF THE CRIME SCENE --

# 90 A:

YES.

# 91 Q:

-- IS THAT ROUTINE?

# 92 A:

ABSOLUTELY.

# 93 Q:

NOTHING EXTRAORDINARY OR UNUSUAL ABOUT YOUR MAKING THAT KIND OF REQUEST?

# 94 A:

NOTHING AT ALL, NO, NOT SINCE I'M TAKING OVER THE INVESTIGATION OF THE CRIME.

# 95 Q:

OKAY. NOW, WERE YOU AWARE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD BEEN TOLD EARLIER THAT MORNING THAT THE RHD DIVISION WAS GOING TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION?

# 96 A:

I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THAT. WAS I AWARE THAT HE HAD BEEN TOLD?

# 97 Q:

YEAH.

# 98 A:

I WOULD ASSUME THAT BECAUSE I HAD BEEN TOLD THAT WE WERE TAKING THE INVESTIGATION BY MY SUPERVISOR, SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT HAD BEEN RELAYED TO HIM, YES.

# 99 Q:

OKAY. AND THE FACT THAT RHD WOULD ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR AN INVESTIGATION, THERE IS NOTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT, IS THERE?

# 100 A:

NOTHING AT ALL, NO.

# 101 Q:

OKAY. NOW, IF YOU KNOW, DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WHAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY, THE INVESTIGATIVE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE LOCAL DETECTIVE UNIT IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, THAT IS, WHEN THE RHD DIVISION COMES IN AND ASSUMES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE INVESTIGATION?

# 102 A:

WELL, THEY -- THEY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY, AT THE TIME THAT THEY ARE INFORMED THAT WE ARE TAKING OVER, TO MAINTAIN THE SECURITY OF THE SCENE; HOWEVER, UPON OUR ARRIVAL IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR US TO ASK THEM TO ASSIST US IN THE INVESTIGATION TO A POINT THAT WE CAN'T HANDLE IT OURSELVES.

# 103 Q:

WELL, ONCE LOCAL DETECTIVES LEARN THAT RHD HAS TAKEN OVER, SHOULD THEY CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE THE CRIME SCENE?

# 104 A:

NO, THEY SHOULDN'T. THEY SHOULD ONLY MAINTAIN THE SECURITY AND INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.

# 105 Q:

NOW, IT TOOK YOU APPROXIMATELY, WHAT, ONE HOUR AND FIVE MINUTES TO ARRIVE AT THE SCENE THAT IS AFTER YOU RECEIVED THE INITIAL PHONE CALL?

# 106 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 107 Q:

OKAY. AND SO DURING THAT ONE-HOUR-AND-FIVE-MINUTE PERIOD THESE LOCALS SHOULD JUST STAND BY?

# 108 A:

THEY SHOULD MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 109 Q:

HOW MANY HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS HAVE YOU BEEN INVOLVED WITH DURING YOUR STAY AT RHD?

# 110 A:

QUITE A FEW. AT RHD I WOULD GUESS MY OVER ALL CAREER I CAN PROBABLY GIVE YOU A FIGURE. PROBABLY OVER 200 I HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN. I'VE PROBABLY BEEN AT THE SCENE OF MAYBE AS MANY AS FIVE TO 600 HOMICIDES.

# 111 Q:

OKAY. AND IN EACH OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE RHD TOOK OVER, THE LOCAL DETECTIVES ALWAYS STOOD BY UNTIL RHD ARRIVED; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 112 A:

THAT'S CORRECT. THEY MAINTAIN THE -- THE INTEGRITY AND ISOLATE WITNESSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

# 113 Q:

NOW, YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOOK YOU ON A WALK-THROUGH?

# 114 A:

YES.

# 115 Q:

OKAY. WHERE DID YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GO FIRST, THAT IS, AFTER YOU LEFT THE INTERSECTION AT DOROTHY AND BUNDY?

# 116 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS -- WE WALKED NORTH ON BUNDY AND HE TOOK ME TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE WALKWAY THAT LEADS TO THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE THROUGH THE SHRUBBERY. I STOOD BACK BEHIND HIM, A COUPLE OF FEET, AND HE POINTED OUT ITEMS IN THE CRIME SCENE TO ME.

# 117 Q:

NOW, AS YOU APPROACHED THE CRIME SCENE FROM THE FRONT, WERE YOU CARRYING A FLASHLIGHT?

# 118 A:

YES.

# 119 Q:

WHAT KIND OF FLASHLIGHT?

# 120 A:

A FOUR-CELL D BATTERY FLASHLIGHT, A LONG FLASHLIGHT LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW THE BRAND OF IT.

# 121 Q:

OKAY. HOW LONG IS THAT FLASHLIGHT? HOW MANY INCHES?

# 122 A:

OH, IT IS PROBABLY I GUESS 14 INCHES MAYBE.

# 123 Q:

OKAY. AND WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ALSO CARRYING A FLASHLIGHT?

# 124 A:

AS I RECALL, YES.

# 125 Q:

OKAY. NOW, YOU HAVE TOLD US THAT YOU HAD BEEN TO MANY CRIME SCENES. WHEN YOU APPROACH A CRIME SCENE ARE YOU CAREFUL NOT TO STEP ON THINGS?

# 126 A:

YES.

# 127 Q:

OKAY. WHY IS THAT?

# 128 A:

WELL, CAN I RELATE IT TO THIS CRIME SCENE?

# 129 Q:

OKAY.

# 130 A:

THIS WAS A VERY, VERY BLOODY CRIME SCENE. YOU DON'T WANT TO CONTAMINATE THE AREA. THE AREA HAS BEEN SECURED, SO YOU ARE VERY CAREFUL AND YOU PICK YOUR -- YOU PICK YOUR ROUTE VERY CAREFULLY. NOT ONLY DO YOU NOT WANT TO CONTAMINATE A CRIME SCENE, I ALSO HAVE A LOT OF HEALTH CONCERNS REGARDING BEING EXPOSED TO BLOOD, SO I TRY TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL TO KEEP BLOOD OFF FROM ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 131 Q:

AND SO YOU ARE SHINING THAT FLASHLIGHT ON THE GROUND THEN I TAKE IT?

# 132 A:

EVERY PLACE, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 133 Q:

ALL RIGHT. AND YOU ARE MAKING CERTAIN THAT YOU DON'T STEP ON ANY EVIDENCE?

# 134 A:

YES.

# 135 Q:

YOU SAW OFFICER RISKE TESTIFY?

# 136 A:

YES. I SAW PART OF HIS TESTIMONY.

# 137 Q:

AND SERGEANT ROSSI?

# 138 A:

YES.

# 139 Q:

AND DID YOU ALSO WATCH THEM DRAW FOR US THE PATH THAT THEY USED AS THEY APPROACHED A CRIME SCENE FROM THE FRONT?

# 140 A:

I DID.

# 141 Q:

OKAY. WAS THAT THE SAME PATH YOU TOOK?

# 142 A:

I WAS TAKING THE SAME PATH.

# 143 Q:

OKAY. AND WHEN YOU LEFT THE CRIME SCENE, THE BUNDY, THE INITIAL -- AFTER THE INITIAL WALK-THROUGH DID YOU GO OUT THE SAME WAY YOU CAME IN?

# 144 A:

YES.

# 145 Q:

OKAY. WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

# 146 A:

TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.

# 147 Q:

IS THERE A RULE IN HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS RELATIVE TO WHETHER OR NOT ALL OFFICERS APPROACHING THE CRIME SCENE TAKE THE SAME ROUTE AND EXIT THROUGH THE SAME ROUTE?

# 148 A:

WELL, I THINK IT IS AN UNWRITTEN RULE THAT IS TRAINED AND TAUGHT TO OFFICERS BY OLDER OFFICERS THAT ONCE A ROUTE HAS BEEN DETERMINED INTO A CRIME SCENE, NORMALLY THAT IS DONE BY THE RESPONDING OFFICERS, ONCE THAT AREA OR THAT ROUTE HAS BEEN DETERMINED AND BEEN WALKED ON, THEN WE ATTEMPT TO USE THE SAME ROUTE TO KEEP EVERYTHING ELSE AS CLOSE TO THE WAY IT WAS FOUND AS POSSIBLE.

# 149 Q:

OKAY. SO I TAKE IT THAT YOU WALKED ALL THE WAY UP TO THE GATE AREA OR MAILBOX AREA?

# 150 A:

WELL, YEAH. I WAS A LITTLE EAST OF THE SOUTH CORNER OF THE GATE BACK IN THE FOLIAGE.

# 151 Q:

AND DID YOU VIEW THE BODIES AT THAT POINT?

# 152 A:

YES.

# 153 Q:

OKAY. USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

# 154 A:

YES.

# 155 Q:

COULD YOU SEE NICOLE BROWN?

# 156 A:

YES.

# 157 Q:

COULD YOU SEE RON GOLDMAN FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE?

# 158 A:

I COULD SEE HIM BUT NOT WELL.

# 159 Q:

OKAY. DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS POINT ANYTHING OUT TO YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 160 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 161 Q:

WHAT DID HE POINT OUT TO YOU?

# 162 A:

HE ILLUMINATED A PLANT AREA AT THE FEET OF THE MALE VICTIM, RON GOLDMAN, AND HE ILLUMINATED A WHITE ENVELOPE THAT WAS LYING THERE ON THE GROUND, AS WELL AS WHAT APPEARED TO BE A BLUE KNIT CAP, A LEATHER GLOVE, A MAN'S LEATHER GLOVE.

# 163 Q:

OKAY. AND HOW LONG DID YOU REMAIN THERE AT THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION?

# 164 A:

VERY SHORT TIME.

# 165 Q:

OKAY. AND YOU BACKED OUT OF THE CRIME SCENE?

# 166 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 167 Q:

OKAY. WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?

# 168 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOOK ME -- SHOWED ME THE FRONT AREA. THERE APPEARED TO BE CANINE PRINTS THAT HAD COME FROM THE AREA OF THE CRIME SCENE DOWN THE WALKWAY, AND HE INSTRUCTED ME ABOUT THOSE, TOLD ME TO BE CAREFUL, AND HE WALKED ME SOUTH ON THE WEST SIDEWALK OF BUNDY TOWARD DOROTHY. AS I WALKED SOUTH HE POINTED OUT SEVERAL CANINE PRINTS THAT APPEARED TO BE PRINTS IN BLOOD THAT HEADED SOUTH ON THE SIDEWALK. HE TOOK ME TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND WE TURNED WEST ON THE NORTH SIDEWALK OF DOROTHY AND THE CANINE PRINTS WERE FADING OUT AT THAT POINT, WERE GETTING VERY LIGHT. AND HE WALKED ME TO THE -- TO THE ALLEY, WHICH WOULD BE THE NORTH/SOUTH ALLEY WEST OF THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE, TO TAKE ME TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION.

# 169 Q:

OKAY. SO DID YOU APPROACH THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

# 170 A:

YES, I DID.

# 171 Q:

IS THERE A DRIVEWAY IN THE REAR?

# 172 A:

THERE IS AN APRON. I -- I -- I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU WOULD CALL IT A DRIVEWAY. IT WOULD BE MORE OF AN APRON TO A GARAGE OFF THE ALLEY.

# 173 Q:

OKAY. WAS THERE A VEHICLE PARKED ON THAT APRON?

# 174 A:

YES, THERE WAS.

# 175 Q:

OKAY. WHAT KIND OF VEHICLE WAS THAT?

# 176 A:

IT WAS A JEEP CHEROKEE, BLACK IN COLOR.

# 177 Q:

YOU HAVE SEEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT JEEP CHEROKEE I TAKE IT?

# 178 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 179 Q:

WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IT AGAIN?

# 180 A:

I -- IF YOU WANT ME TO, I WILL.

# 181 Q:

NOW, DID YOU WALK PAST THE BLACK JEEP CHEROKEE?

# 182 A:

FIRST WHEN I WAS TAKEN BACK THERE, I WAS DIRECTED TO THE -- TO THE NORTH SIDE OF THE VEHICLE, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN THE DRIVER'S SIDE AND IT WAS PARKED HEADED EAST ON THE APRON AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS POINTED OUT WHAT APPEARED TO BE A BLOOD DROP ON THE PAVEMENT, AS WELL AS SOME CHANGE. AND THEN FROM THERE WE WALKED BACK AROUND THE JEEP AND ENTERED THE REAR OF THE LOCATION INTO THE RESIDENCE.

# 183 Q:

OKAY. SO YOU ENTERED THE GARAGE?

# 184 A:

THROUGH THE GARAGE INTO THE RESIDENCE, THAT'S CORRECT.

# 185 Q:

AS YOU ENTERED THE RESIDENCE DID YOU THEN BEGIN TO CLIMB THE STAIRS?

# 186 A:

YES.

# 187 Q:

AND WAS THERE A SMALL BANISTER TO THE LEFT OF THE STAIRWAY?

# 188 A:

YES, THERE WAS.

# 189 Q:

DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ON THE STAIRWAY?

# 190 A:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS POINTED OUT AN ICE CREAM CUP SITTING ON THE -- AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BANISTER.

# 191 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU SEIZE THAT ICE CREAM CUP AT THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT, DETECTIVE?

# 192 A:

I DID NOT, NO.

# 193 Q:

DID YOU EXAMINE THE ICE CREAM CUP?

# 194 A:

I LOOKED AT IT. I VISUALLY LOOKED AT IT FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

# 195 Q:

WELL, DID YOU STOP AND LOOK AT IT OR DID YOU JUST LOOK AT IT AS YOU WALK PAST IT?

# 196 A:

I LOOKED AT IT AS I WALKED PAST IT.

# 197 Q:

OKAY. WHAT DID YOU NOTICE ABOUT THE ICE CREAM, DETECTIVE?

# 198 A:

REALLY -- REALLY NOT TOO MUCH OTHER THAN IT APPEARED TO BE MELTED ICE CREAM.

# 199 Q:

DID YOU CONSIDER THIS ICE CREAM TO BE A CRITICAL PIECE OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE, DETECTIVE?

# 200 A:

AT THAT POINT?

# 201 Q:

YEAH.

# 202 A:

NO.

# 203 Q:

HOW ABOUT AT ANY OTHER POINT?

# 204 A:

NO. I'VE NEVER CONSIDERED IT TO BE A CRITICAL PIECE OF EVIDENCE.

KEY QUOTE

# 205 Q:

SO I TAKE IT YOU WALKED UP THE STAIRS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 206 A:

YES. I WAS -- I WAS LED UP THE STAIRS INTO THE KITCHEN AREA, THROUGH THE KITCHEN TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE LOCATION.

# 207 Q:

NOW, AS YOU APPROACHED THE FRONT DOOR, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER IT WAS OPEN OR NOT?

# 208 A:

THE DOOR WAS OPEN.

# 209 Q:

OKAY. NOW, WAS IT JUST YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AT THIS POINT?

# 210 A:

YES.

# 211 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANYONE ELSE IN THE HOUSE AT THAT TIME?

# 212 A:

THERE WAS NO ONE IN THE HOUSE.

# 213 Q:

OKAY. AND DID YOU EXIT THE FRONT DOOR?

# 214 A:

YES.

# 215 Q:

OKAY. YOU WALKED OUT ONTO THE PATHWAY OR LANDING?

# 216 A:

YES.

# 217 Q:

NOW, PRIOR TO WALKING OUT THE FRONT DOOR, DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CAUTION YOU IN ANY WAY?

# 218 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 219 Q:

WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 220 A:

HE TOLD ME THAT HE HAD OBSERVED WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOOD SHOEPRINTS AS WELL AS BLOOD DROPS LEADING WEST FROM THE CRIME SCENE TOWARD THE ALLEY AND TOLD ME TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO STEP ON ANY OF THOSE.

# 221 Q:

OKAY. YOU STILL HAD YOUR FLASHLIGHT IN YOUR HAND?

# 222 A:

YES.

# 223 Q:

DID YOU WALK OUT THE DOOR?

# 224 A:

YES.

# 225 Q:

WHICH WAY DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?

# 226 A:

I STAYED TO THE SOUTH PORTION OF THE -- NEAR THE WALL OF THE RESIDENCE ON THE OUTSIDE. THE PORCH LIGHT WAS ON GIVING A LITTLE ILLUMINATION. AND I WALKED UP EAST TO JUST THE -- JUST BEFORE YOU START DOWN THE STAIRWAY TO WHERE THE VICTIMS WERE, USED MY FLASHLIGHT AND I OBSERVED THE SCENE.

# 227 Q:

OKAY. WERE YOU -- WERE YOU BETTER ABLE TO SEE THE SCENE AT THAT POINT?

# 228 A:

MUCH BETTER, YES.

# 229 Q:

HOW MANY GLOVES DID YOU SEE THEN?

# 230 A:

ONE.

# 231 Q:

DID YOU EVER SEE TWO GLOVES AT THIS LOCATION?

# 232 A:

NOT AT BUNDY, NO.

# 233 Q:

OKAY. DID ANY OFFICER EVER TELL YOU THAT HE OR SHE SAW TWO GLOVES AT THAT LOCATION?

# 234 A:

NO.

# 235 Q:

AS YOU APPROACHED THE BODIES, AND THIS IS AFTER YOU EXITED THE FRONT DOOR, DID YOU SEE ANY BLOODY FOOTPRINTS ON THE LANDING?

# 236 A:

ON THE LANDING?

# 237 Q:

YES.

# 238 A:

YES.

# 239 Q:

ALL RIGHT.

# 240 A:

ACTUALLY -- ACTUALLY I SAW THE FIRST PRINTS, THEY WERE POINTED OUT TO ME ON THE LANDING, AND THEN I OBSERVED WHAT APPEARED TO BE MOLDED PRINTS ON THE -- ON THE STEPS COMING UP, AS WELL AS BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS.

# 241 Q:

WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY "MOLDED PRINTS"?

# 242 A:

THIS WOULD BE WHERE THERE WAS BLOOD THERE AND A PERSON STEPPED IN THE BLOOD AND IT LEAVES A MOLDED IMPRESSION OF THE BOTTOM OF THE SHOE IN THE BLOOD ITSELF.

# 243 Q:

OKAY. YOU SAW THIS MOLDED FOOTPRINT ON THE STEPS?

# 244 A:

I SAW IT ON THE STEPS AS WELL AS BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS IT APPEARED TO BE MOLDED ALSO.

# 245 Q:

OKAY. YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE TRIAL, RIGHT?

# 246 A:

YES, I HAVE.

# 247 Q:

WHY APPROACH THE SCENE A SECOND TIME AT ALL?

# 248 A:

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MY SECOND APPROACH ON THE LANDING?

# 249 Q:

YEAH, YEAH.

# 250 A:

I NEED TO ACCLIMATE MYSELF TO THE CRIME SCENE TO KNOW WHAT EVIDENCE I HAVE AND WHERE THE CASE IS GOING TO LEAD ME SO I CAN INSTRUCT THE PEOPLE THAT I CALL OUT TO ASSIST ME ON WHAT I WANT RECOVERED, HOW I WANT IT PROTECTED AND WHAT I WANT DONE WITH IT.

# 251 Q:

OKAY. WHO IN FACT IS IN CHARGE OF THESE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS? IS IT YOU, THE DETECTIVE, OR IS IT THE CRIMINALIST?

# 252 A:

IT IS THE DETECTIVE.

# 253 Q:

AND WHO DIRECTS THE CRIMINALIST?

# 254 A:

THE DETECTIVE.

# 255 Q:

OKAY. AND IF YOU CALL OUT A FINGERPRINT PERSON, WHO DIRECTS THE FINGERPRINT PERSON?

# 256 A:

THE DETECTIVE.

# 257 Q:

AND IF YOU CALL OUT THE CORONER, WHO TELLS THE CORNER WHEN THEY MAY REMOVE THE BODIES?

# 258 A:

THE DETECTIVE.

# 259 Q:

DOES THE CORONER HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUST WALK INTO YOUR CRIME SCENE AND REMOVE BODIES ANYTIME THEY WOULD LIKE?

# 260 A:

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

# 261 MR. DARDEN:

IS THIS A GOOD TIME TO BREAK, YOUR HONOR?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Vannatter

THE ONLY THING THAT THAT TRIGGERED IN MY MIND THAT -- KNOWING THAT THERE WAS A CONNECTION TO MR. SIMPSON, THAT THERE WOULD PROBABLY BE A LOT OF MEDIA, YES.

Vannatter frames his only heightened awareness as media concern, not investigative bias — an important deflection of the defense's theory that detectives treated Simpson differently from the start.

Vannatter

NOT AT BUNDY, NO.

Direct denial that he ever saw two gloves at Bundy — sets up the contrast with the single matching glove later found at Rockingham, a central defense argument.

Vannatter

THIS WAS A VERY, VERY BLOODY CRIME SCENE. YOU DON'T WANT TO CONTAMINATE THE AREA... I ALSO HAVE A LOT OF HEALTH CONCERNS REGARDING BEING EXPOSED TO BLOOD, SO I TRY TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL TO KEEP BLOOD OFF FROM ME.

Establishes Vannatter's personal care around blood contamination, preemptively countering any suggestion that he or other officers contaminated the scene.

Vannatter

NO. I'VE NEVER CONSIDERED IT TO BE A CRITICAL PIECE OF EVIDENCE.

Dismissal of the ice cream cup — the defense had implied its melted state was a timeline clue; Vannatter deflates that before it can take hold.

Evidence (7)

Informal

White envelope found at feet of Ron Goldman near the front gate area

observed during walk-through, pointed out by Detective Phillips

Informal

Blue knit cap found near Ron Goldman

observed during walk-through, pointed out by Detective Phillips

Informal

Single man's leather glove found near Ron Goldman

observed during walk-through; Vannatter confirms he never saw a second glove at Bundy

Informal

Blood drops and loose change on pavement on driver's side of Nicole's black Jeep Cherokee

observed during walk-through, pointed out by Detective Phillips

Informal

Bloody shoe prints / molded impressions on landing steps and between the two victims

observed during walk-through

Informal

Ice cream cup with melted ice cream on staircase banister inside residence

observed but not seized; Vannatter never considered it critical evidence

+ 1 more

Notable Exchanges (3)

Darden•Vannatter

Darden methodically establishes that RHD taking over a homicide investigation is routine and that local detectives should stand down, framing the Fuhrman walk-through of the scene as potentially improper.

strategic

Darden•Vannatter

Darden asks whether Vannatter ever considered the ice cream cup critical evidence; Vannatter flatly says no, both at the time and ever — closing off a defense timeline argument preemptively.

strategic

Darden•Vannatter

Darden establishes chain of command: the detective — not the criminalist, fingerprint tech, or coroner — controls the crime scene and directs all specialists.

procedural

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 5315 • 261 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103