Cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman (morning, part 2)

📄 Cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman (morning, part 2) — Wednesday, March 15, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\MAR\15\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-MARK-FUHR.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 38 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of Mark Fuhrman (morning, part 1) Sidebar: prosecution preparation ▶

Witness: Det. Mark Fuhrman
Examiner: F. Lee Bailey
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, March 15, 1995 • Utterances: 150

F. Lee Bailey methodically cross-examines Detective Mark Fuhrman about his pre-testimony preparation sessions with prosecutors, focusing on a Newsweek article that revealed Fuhrman had undergone mock cross-examination in a grand jury room. Bailey works to establish the timeline of when Fuhrman learned this preparation had been published, and when prosecutors decided to preemptively disclose it on direct examination. Fuhrman is evasive on dates and details but confirms the coaching sessions and that Clark told him about the planned disclosure only a day or two before he testified.

# 1 Q:

OKAY. AND BEYOND THAT, YOU HAD NO COMPREHENSION AS TO WHY IT WAS DONE; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 2 A:

NO.

# 3 Q:

DID YOU NOT TESTIFY AT THE VERY OUTSET OF YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU HAD BEEN SUBJECTED, SINCE THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, TO A BARRAGE OF PERSONAL ATTACKS WHICH MADE YOU NERVOUS AS YOU FIRST SAT DOWN ON THE STAND?

# 4 MS. CLARK:

MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.

# 5 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 6 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: DID YOU TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES JULY 6TH OR A LITTLE LATER, PERHAPS AROUND THE 14TH, THAT WAS UNUSUAL?

# 7 A:

NO.

# 8 Q:

DID YOU TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT PROBLEMS YOU HAD HAD THAT WERE SPECIFIC TO THIS CASE AND NO OTHER AND DID NOT RELATE TO THE EVIDENCE IN THE CASE?

# 9 A:

YES.

# 10 Q:

WHAT DID YOU MEAN TO CONVEY WHEN YOU TOLD THAT TO THIS JURY? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING OF WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS?

# 11 A:

BEING ACCUSED OF COMMITTING A FELONY IN A CAPITAL CRIME.

KEY QUOTE

# 12 Q:

OKAY. WAS THAT THE ONLY ACCUSATION THAT WAS TROUBLING YOU AS YOU TOOK THE WITNESS STAND?

# 13 A:

THAT IS THE ONLY ONE I CARE ABOUT, YES.

# 14 Q:

THE OTHER ONES, THE ACCUSATIONS THAT YOU USED RACIAL EPITHETS, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT AT ALL; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 15 A:

I DIDN'T SAY THEM. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM.

KEY QUOTE

# 16 Q:

YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM?

# 17 A:

I DIDN'T SAY THEM, SIR.

# 18 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.

# 19 THE COURT:

THE WITNESS ANSWERED.

# 20 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU READ, WITHOUT SPECIFYING THE PUBLICATION, IN ONE OF THE MEDIA COVERING THIS CASE, A PRINTED ARTICLE, THAT DISCLOSED OR PURPORTED TO DISCLOSE THAT YOU WERE UNDERGOING SOME HEAVY TRAINING IN THE D.A.'S OFFICE?

# 21 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

# 22 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 23 MR. BAILEY:

I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR?

# 24 THE COURT:

REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 25 MR. BAILEY:

OKAY.

# 26 Q:

DID YOU LEARN FROM ANY SOURCE THAT IT WAS CLAIMED THAT YOU WERE UNDERGOING SOME TRAINING SESSIONS IN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WITH SEVERAL LAWYERS?

# 27 A:

I WAS TOLD THAT.

# 28 Q:

OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU WERE FIRST TOLD THAT?

# 29 A:

I BELIEVE WHEN THAT NEWSWEEK ARTICLE CAME OUT.

# 30 Q:

NEWSWEEK. YOU READ IT?

# 31 A:

NO.

# 32 Q:

NO. WHO DESCRIBED IT TO YOU?

# 33 A:

MISS CLARK.

# 34 Q:

DID SHE READ IT TO YOU?

# 35 A:

MISS LEWIS. YES.

# 36 Q:

READ YOU THE TEXT?

# 37 A:

NO.

# 38 Q:

OKAY. WAS THERE ANY TALK -- THIS, BY THE WAY, OCCURRED AFTER THE GRAND JURY EXPERIENCE, DID IT NOT?

# 39 A:

YES, SIR.

# 40 Q:

OKAY. WAS THERE ANY TALK, DURING THE PERIOD WHEN SHE WAS READING THIS TO YOU, ABOUT A LEAK?

# 41 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. HE JUST TESTIFIED HE DID NOT -- NOBODY READ IT TO HIM.

# 42 THE COURT:

WAIT.

# 43 MR. BAILEY:

I'M SORRY, I MAY HAVE MISHEARD YOU.

# 44 THE COURT:

REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

# 45 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: MISS CLARK READ YOU THE NEWSWEEK ARTICLE OR A PORTION OF IT?

# 46 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE SHE READ IT, NO.

# 47 Q:

WHAT DID SHE SAY TO YOU THAT NEWSWEEK WAS TALKING ABOUT?

# 48 A:

SHE PULLED OUT EXCERPTS OF THE ARTICLE.

# 49 Q:

WELL, WHERE WERE THE TWO OF YOU?

# 50 A:

SITTING IN HER OFFICE.

# 51 Q:

OKAY. NOW, DOES THIS HELP YOU WITH ONE OF THE MEETINGS, THE RECOLLECTION OF THE NEWSWEEK ARTICLE IN MARCH?

# 52 A:

HELP ME WITH THE RECOLLECTION?

# 53 Q:

WE WERE TRYING EARLIER, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, TO PIN DOWN AS BEST WE COULD THE TIMES THAT YOU HAD MET WITH PROSECUTORS IN THE MONTH OF MARCH TO GET READY FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.

# 54 A:

YES.

# 55 Q:

AT WHICH OF THE POSSIBLE THREE MEETINGS THAT YOU HAVE SOME RECOLLECTION OF DID THE NEWSWEEK ARTICLE SURFACE?

# 56 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER WHICH ONE IT WAS, SIR.

# 57 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WELL, DO YOU REMEMBER THE DATE ON WHICH YOU DID THE GRAND JURY THING?

# 58 A:

NO.

# 59 Q:

DO YOU REMEMBER THE DAY OF THE WEEK?

# 60 A:

SUNDAY.

# 61 Q:

SUNDAY?

# 62 A:

I BELIEVE SO.

# 63 Q:

ALL RIGHT. HOW LONG AFTER THAT DID MISS CLARK INFORM YOU THAT NEWSWEEK HAD DESCRIBED THE EVENT?

# 64 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER THAT.

# 65 Q:

A DAY OR MORE?

# 66 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR.

# 67 Q:

ALL RIGHT. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT WHEN MISS CLARK INFORMED YOU ABOUT THE NEWSWEEK PIECE IT WAS AFTER THE GRAND JURY EXERCISE HAD TAKEN PLACE?

# 68 A:

THAT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY.

# 69 Q:

ALL RIGHT. NOW, WERE YOU PRESENT IN HER OFFICE WHEN YOU LEARNED ABOUT THIS OR ON THE PHONE?

# 70 A:

I'M NOT SURE ON THAT. I COULD HAVE BEEN IN HER OFFICE.

# 71 Q:

YOU DON'T RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU WERE ON A TELEPHONE OR FACING MISS CLARK WHEN YOU LEARNED THAT YOUR GRAND JURY TRAINING HAD BEEN PUBLISHED IN THE MEDIA?

# 72 A:

I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR.

# 73 MS. CLARK:

OBJECT TO "GRAND JURY TRAINING," YOUR HONOR. ARGUMENTATIVE AND MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.

# 74 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: HOW TO YOU DESCRIBE THAT?

# 75 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

# 76 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: HOW DO YOU DESCRIBE THE SESSION IN THE GRAND JURY ROOM?

# 77 A:

CASE PREPARATION.

# 78 Q:

CASE PREPARATION?

# 79 A:

YES.

# 80 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE IF I DESCRIBE IT HENCEFORTH AS GRAND JURY ROOM CASE PREPARATION TO IDENTIFY THAT INCIDENT?

# 81 A:

YES, SIR.

# 82 Q:

IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?

# 83 A:

IT IS ACCEPTABLE.

# 84 Q:

THANK YOU. YOU HAVE TOLD US THAT THE LEARNING ABOUT THE NEWSWEEK ARTICLE CAME AFTER THE GRAND JURY PREPARATION AND I'M ASKING YOU WHETHER IT WAS DAYS OR WEEKS AFTERWARDS THAT MISS CLARK BROUGHT IT TO YOUR ATTENTION?

# 85 A:

THE WAY YOU CHARACTERIZE THAT DAY OR WEEK -- DAYS OR WEEKS, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY DAYS.

# 86 Q:

SOME DAYS?

# 87 A:

YES.

# 88 Q:

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY?

# 89 A:

NO.

# 90 Q:

NOW, DO YOU REMEMBER -- DO YOU KNOW WHEN NEWSWEEK COMES OUT AND WHEN IT IS GENERALLY DISTRIBUTED IN THIS AREA?

# 91 A:

I BELIEVE IT IS SUNDAY OR MONDAY.

# 92 Q:

WELL, IF YOU CONNECTED SUNDAY NIGHT ON THE NEWSSTAND SOMETIMES MONDAY, IS THAT YOUR EXPERIENCE?

# 93 A:

I DON'T GO TO THE NEWSSTAND AND BUY IT, SO --

# 94 Q:

DO YOU READ NEWSWEEK?

# 95 A:

SOMETIMES, BUT NOT USUALLY.

# 96 Q:

ASSUMING THAT SOMETIME ON THE MONDAY AFTER -- SOMETIME AFTER THE GRAND JURY PREPARATION, NEWSWEEK CAME OUT, DID -- WAS MISS CLARK THE FIRST ONE TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION THE CONTENT OF THE ARTICLE?

# 97 A:

I'M NOT SURE. I BELIEVE SO.

# 98 Q:

MR. TOURTELOT DIDN'T CALL YOU UP AND TELL YOU WHAT WAS BEING PUBLISHED?

# 99 THE COURT:

I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE COURT'S OWN OBJECTION TO THAT QUESTION, COUNSEL.

# 100 MR. BAILEY:

ALL RIGHT.

# 101 Q:

DID MR. PELLICANO --

# 102 THE COURT:

SAME OBJECTION, INVESTIGATOR EMPLOYED BY AN ATTORNEY.

# 103 MR. BAILEY:

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

# 104 Q:

LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY: DID ANYONE, OTHER THAN YOUR LAWYERS IN PRIVATE CONVERSATION AND PRIOR TO MISS CLARK BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION THE EXISTENCE OF THIS ARTICLE?

# 105 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE?

# 106 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 107 DET. MARK FUHRMAN:

I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

# 108 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU WALKED INTO HER OFFICE AND SHE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE ARTICLE, WAS SHE HOLDING THE MAGAZINE, IF YOU REMEMBER?

# 109 A:

I DON'T.

# 110 Q:

DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT SHE SAID THAT ENLIGHTENED YOU AS TO WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN THE MAGAZINE?

# 111 A:

NO, SIR.

# 112 Q:

DID YOU AT SOME POINT DURING THE CONVERSATION COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT NEWSWEEK WAS DESCRIBING MORE OR LESS THE GRAND JURY CASE PREPARATION THAT YOU HAD EXPERIENCED?

# 113 A:

I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE DESCRIPTION I ASSUMED, YES.

# 114 Q:

ALL RIGHT. WERE YOU QUESTIONED AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAD TOLD ANYONE ABOUT THAT IN THE MEDIA?

# 115 A:

NO.

# 116 Q:

WAS THERE ANY CONVERSATION BETWEEN YOU, MISS CLARK AND POSSIBLY OTHERS ON THAT DAY ABOUT HOW THE MEDIA HAD GOTTEN AHOLD OF IT?

# 117 A:

I THINK --

# 118 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT, YOUR HONOR.

# 119 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 120 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: OKAY. SUBSEQUENT TO THIS CONVERSATION WITH MISS CLARK DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HER OR ANY OF THE PROSECUTORS ABOUT BRINGING OUT THE GRAND JURY PREPARATION SESSION EARLY IN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION?

# 121 A:

I DON'T BELIEVE WE DID, NO.

# 122 Q:

WELL, I SAID "SUBSEQUENT" NOW. THAT MEANS UP TO TODAY. YOU HADN'T -- YOU HAD AN EXPERIENCE WITH MISS CLARK IN THE OFFICE IN THE OFFICE WHERE YOU LEARNED ABOUT NEWSWEEK?

# 123 A:

YES.

# 124 Q:

YOU TOLD US THAT YOU WERE NOT SURPRISED WHEN SHE DEVELOPED EARLY IN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOU HAD UNDERGONE A PRACTICED CROSS-EXAMINATION WITH SOME LAWYERS. IF YOU ARE NOT SURPRISED, AT SOME POINT I TAKE IT YOU WERE INFORMED THAT THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?

# 125 A:

YES.

# 126 Q:

OKAY. WERE YOU INFORMED THAT THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN SOMETIME AFTER THE NEWSWEEK ARTICLE CAME OUT AND YOU TWO DISCUSSED IT?

# 127 A:

NO. I THINK MISS CLARK TOLD ME THAT SHE WAS GOING TO BRING THAT UP ON DIRECT AND THAT WAS AS FAR AS IT WENT.

# 128 Q:

WHEN DID SHE TELL YOU THAT?

# 129 A:

RIGHT BEFORE I TESTIFIED.

KEY QUOTE

# 130 Q:

JUST BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED?

# 131 A:

THE DAY BEFORE, MAYBE DAY AND A HALF.

# 132 Q:

ALL RIGHT. PRIOR TO THAT YOU HAD NEVER HEARD OF THAT PLAN, HAD YOU? ISN'T THAT TRUE?

# 133 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE AND IT ALSO --

# 134 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 135 MS. CLARK:

YOUR HONOR, CAN WE APPROACH?

# 136 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE.

# 137 MR. BAILEY:

I WILL WITHDRAW THE QUESTION.

# 138 THE COURT:

EASIER.

# 139 MS. CLARK:

OKAY.

# 140 Q:

BY MR. BAILEY: YOU JUST SAID THAT MISS CLARK EXPLAINED TO YOU A DAY OR TWO BEFORE YOUR TESTIMONY THAT SHE WOULD ELICIT FROM YOU THE FACT THAT YOU HAD THAT PRACTICED CROSS-EXAMINATION, CORRECT?

# 141 A:

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS EXACTLY THOSE WORDS, BUT YES.

# 142 Q:

TO THAT EFFECT?

# 143 A:

YES, SIR.

# 144 Q:

WAS THIS A DAY OR TWO BEFORE YOUR TESTIMONY, THE FIRST TIME THAT THIS IDEA OF BRINGING THIS OUT WAS CONVEYED TO YOU?

# 145 A:

YES.

# 146 Q:

ALL RIGHT. BUT AT NO TIME AFTER THE EXPERIENCE TOOK PLACE, AND PRIOR TO THE PUBLICATION OF THE NEWSWEEK ARTICLE, WERE YOU TOLD THAT ANY SUCH DISCLOSURE WOULD BE MADE; ISN'T THAT SO, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

# 147 MS. CLARK:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH.

# 148 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE.

# 149 MR. BAILEY:

I DO NOT WITHDRAW THIS TIME.

KEY QUOTE

# 150 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Mark Fuhrman

I DIDN'T SAY THEM. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM.

Fuhrman dismisses the accusations that he used racial epithets — a defiant denial that would become central to his eventual impeachment via the McKinny tapes later in the trial.

Mark Fuhrman

BEING ACCUSED OF COMMITTING A FELONY IN A CAPITAL CRIME.

Fuhrman identifies what actually troubled him on the stand — the planting accusation — drawing a sharp contrast with his dismissal of the racial slur allegations.

F. Lee Bailey

I DO NOT WITHDRAW THIS TIME.

Bailey's pointed refusal to back down signals the question about pre-Newsweek disclosure is strategically important — he is pressing on whether the prosecution's decision to surface the coaching was reactive damage control rather than candor.

Mark Fuhrman

RIGHT BEFORE I TESTIFIED... THE DAY BEFORE, MAYBE DAY AND A HALF.

Fuhrman confirms he was only told Clark would disclose the mock cross-examination shortly before he took the stand, supporting the defense theory that disclosure was forced by the Newsweek leak.

Evidence (1)

Informal

Newsweek article describing Fuhrman's mock cross-examination preparation in the grand jury room

discussed — used by Bailey to establish prosecution was caught by media leak before disclosing the coaching on direct

Notable Exchanges (3)

F. Lee Bailey•Mark Fuhrman

Bailey gets Fuhrman to agree to the term 'grand jury room case preparation' after Fuhrman rejects 'grand jury training' — a small semantic victory that lets Bailey use a loaded phrase with Fuhrman's own consent.

strategic

F. Lee Bailey•Mark Fuhrman

Bailey presses Fuhrman on whether he cares about racial epithet accusations; Fuhrman twice says 'I didn't say them' and 'I don't care about them,' coming across as dismissive in a way that would later prove damaging.

revealing

F. Lee Bailey•Marcia Clark•Judge Ito

At the end of the session Clark requests a bench conference on Bailey's question about pre-Newsweek disclosure; Bailey explicitly refuses to withdraw, and the conference proceeds — signaling a significant contested point.

heated

Light Moments (1)

Judge Ito

After Clark requests to approach to avoid a question, Bailey withdraws it, prompting Ito to say 'EASIER' — a dry judicial aside.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

Exposure of coached testimony / undisclosed preparation

Bailey establishes that Fuhrman underwent a mock cross-examination with prosecutors in a grand jury room, that it was published in Newsweek before disclosure, and that Clark only told Fuhrman she would reveal it on direct a day or two before he testified — suggesting the disclosure was reactive rather than voluntary.

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

Prior statement / impeachment by omission

Bailey challenges Fuhrman's opening testimony characterization of his pre-stand nervousness, pressing on whether racial epithet accusations — not just the felony accusation — contributed to that nervousness.

Witness Demeanor

Fuhrman is evasive and repeatedly claims not to remember details (dates, locations, who said what)

He is defiant and clipped on the racial epithet question

He becomes more cooperative when Bailey offers neutral framing ('grand jury room case preparation')

Objections

11 objections (5 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 5293 • 150 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103