Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good afternoon.
I need for all of you to stay healthy. All right. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Dr. Lakshmanan is again on the witness stand undergoing direct examination by Mr. Kelberg. And Mr. Kelberg, you may resume with your direct examination.
Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran, the witness on the stand at the time of the noon recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
Thank you, your Honor. I have another photograph I'm going to ask Mr. Fairtlough to put on because I want zoom capability. And I ask, your Honor, this be marked as photograph 324, People's exhibit 324.
Now, doctor, we were talking about the autopsy room, and I want you to look at this photograph, People's 324 and tell us what is shown in this particular photograph.
This is the autopsy instrument tray with the instruments set up in the manner which the doctor has available before he or she starts the autopsy.
And this is already in place at the time the medical examiner, like Dr. Golden, is going to begin the autopsy?
Well, we have an autoclave, but it is not used that often, but it is just washed and cleaned.
Is the fact that these people are dead of consequence as to why you do not need or do not at least use the autoclave to sterilize your instruments on a routine basis?
Doctor, if we can get Mr. Fairtlough to work our arrow for us and kind of go top to bottom in the tray and ask you if you can just basically tell us what each of the instruments is. Perhaps we could start what looks to be some kind of knife with a white handle and start with that and work our way down.
It is a larger knife which is used to cut the larger organs in the body like the brain and the liver, the lung, et cetera.
Initially the autopsy process involves examination of the organs inside or in the body to see the relationship and also the--any injuries. And then when the organ is removed from the body, you serial section the organ to look for preexisting disease process in the organ, and this instrument is used for that purpose when you make the serial sectioning of the organs.
Cutting them like you cut a bred loaf so that you can study the cross-section of the organ.
And is there any custom or practice as to how many, I hate to use the term slices, of the organ the medical examiner takes in making that kind of examination with respect to these organs?
Well, there is a minimum--I mean, there is no specific number as long as the organ is adequately examined. Some areas may require more sectioning than others, but it is the medical examiner's decision on that.
If Mr. Fairtlough could move the arrow to the left and stop where he has, what are we looking at now, doctor?
Now, it appears, if Mr. Fairtlough could move the arrow toward the bulb end of that syringe, is that resting in something, doctor?
Well, that is used for several purposes; to remove blood accumulating to the chest cavities, used to remove any of the fluid accumulations and to also have a volume estimation of the fluids removed as they are being removed, and it is also washed and sometimes used to estimate the volume of the stomach contents.
And in cases like Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson would you expect there to be free blood inside of each of these person's bodies as a result of the injuries received?
Especially in Mr. Goldman, he had evidence of bleeding into the abdominal cavity and chest cavity, so there was evidence of blood accumulation in the cavities of Mr. Goldman.
Would you expect then this ladle to be used to measure the quantity of blood found in that area?
Now, doctor, you mentioned it can also be used to estimate the volume of the stomach contents; is that correct?
Assuming that this ladle is used to measure the volume of blood, and it is also going to be used to measure the stomach contents, would you expect it to be washed between the two procedures?
Because you don't want cross-contamination of the blood material with the gastric contents.
What do you do as a medical examiner with any blood that is ladled out of the inside of the body?
One--sometimes you--you need to collect the blood for toxicology, and when you open the heart, sometimes the blood is collected from the heart in the ladle and placed in the blood bottle. The situations where you are removing blood and blood clots from a cavity, you place it in a tray until you--so you can assess the volume and sometimes in a case of a firearm injury or a gunshot wound which has entered the chest cavity, the bullets can be in the blood clot--in the blood which is accumulated in the chest cavity, so it is important to save all the blood which is removed from the cavity, in addition to measuring the volume, but also to have it available to retrieve any projectiles which may have finally come to rest in the blood clot in the chest cavity.
Doctor, are there, prepared for the use of the medical examiner, vials of various types to collect these kind of specimens?
And I think we have a photo that we are going to get to in a moment, but for our present purposes, with respect to the stomach contents that may be measured with this, what happens to those stomach contents?
They are placed--first of all, the doctor records the--the character, the gross examination, and also the amount, and it is placed in a container earmarked for collection of such contents and we have a plastic jar which is used for that purpose.
We are going to talk about stomach contents a good deal later on. Is there anything else that this ladle is used for?
Basically for these two purposes; removing of fluids, collections, give an estimation of the approximate volume.
If we could have Mr. Fairtlough move the arrow down, there appears to be perhaps the end of a knife where it is right now. Do you see that, doctor?
Yes, it is a smaller knife and that is usually used for--removal of the neck organs and other dissections as the doctor may feel it is necessary during his dissection or her dissection.
Incidentally, doctor, how frequently are these knives, such as the top one that you identified and the one you are looking at now, how frequently are they sharpened?
They are supposed to be sharpened everyday or as needed. Whenever the doctor gives an opinion that they are dull, then the technician will have it sharpened.
But this would be a knife used to dissect in the neck area of a person like Nicole Brown Simpson?
Neck organs, in our office usually we remove the tongue, also inclusive with the larynx and hyoid and pharynx and esophagus together en bloc after having done the dissection of the chest cavity and the head.
As I told you, for dissection of any organ which the doctor feels more comfortable using the smaller knife.
Now, if we could move the arrow to the right a bit where Mr. Fairtlough has it, what are we looking at now?
That is a kind of a plier like instrument which can be used to strip the pleura.
The pleura is the lining of the inner surface of the chest cavity, also like a lining which also covers the lung and the chest cavity and it forms a kind of potential space between the chest wall and the lung and there is fluid in the pleural cavity and this allows free movement of the lung during breathing.
Sometimes to open the rib cage after you make an incision and also to--when you remove projectiles from the spine, sometimes when you make cuts it is easier to open up the bone to get the bullet out.
We have a different pair of--it can be done in two process; either by a saw or by a shear. We have a shear which is used to open up the rib cage.
Not exactly a hacksaw. It is more like an electrically power driven saw. We didn't take a picture of it, but it is similar to the saw used in orthopedics to remove a cast.
And the shears that are used, are they similar in nature to pruning shears that one might have around the garden?
Well, they are regular--similar to surgical instruments which are used, at least the scalpel and the scissors and forceps part of it.
And in order to get to the internal organs, is the saw or the pruning shears required?
Yes, because after you reflect the skin and subcutaneous soft tissues to open up the chest cavity, you need to open up the rib cage to do that, to enter the chest cavity.
Usually to pick up structures before you dissect them and also during dissection you need the forceps so that you can be up open a vessel or open up a bronchial area in the lung, depending on what structure you are dissecting. Basically these are dissecting instruments.
All right. Now, the measuring device that is under there, is that different than what you were mentioning before, this blue card that appears in the photographs?
That's correct. This is a scientific ruler which gives measurements both in inches and centimeters.
They could be used for a variety of purposes, from measuring the injuries of the body surface, to measuring valve circumferences when the heart is dissected.
Incidentally, you mentioned the ladle taking blood from the heart. Is there in cases such as Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, a typical location where blood is collected from?
Usually you open up the--the--either the inferior vena cavity radial junction and after removing the pericardial fluid you allow the blood to accumulate in the pericardial sac and you retrieve the blood which is placed in the bottle which is earmarked for collection of blood. And then the ladle can be used for the transfer, but we also provide the doctors with a plastic syringe which is to remove the blood and subject in the serology tube which is the EDTA tube.
The pericardial sac is the covering over the cavity. Just like the pleural cavity covers the lung, you have the pericardial sac covering the heart.
Because you have a sac-like structure there and once you--always the pericardial sac has some fluid. Once you take the fluid out, you have kind of a sac-like structure available for the blood to be collected from.
Well, you get heart blood from the heart when do you this collection in this manner.
We save blood for--usually for toxicological purposes and the blood we collect is placed in sodium fluoride.
The syringe is used for the serology tube because the syringe is a 10 cc syringe.
No, no. It is just a ruler used to measure any structure the doctor wants to measure.
As I told you, to open up vessels or dissect a particular bronchus, any tubular structure to open up.
And for example--opening up the stomach, the esophagus, anything, wherever you need to open up a hollow tubular structure.
Would substance or structures like the carotid artery be the kind of thing that could be opened up with that type of scissor?
That looks like a sharp-ended scissor. You would like to use the--you like to use the scissor which has a blunt and a sharp blade to it so that the blunt end could be used for the blunt part of the dissection and then the sharpened to make the final cuts.
This way you do not cause false nicks in the intima vessel, which is the inner lining of the carotid artery.
Doctor, I can't tell, is there an instrument to the right, kind of underlying the handle of the scissors that we were looking at?
Yes. That is a chisel which is used in the opening of the skull of the decedent.
The electric saw is used to open the--first of all, the scalp is reflected and the skull is opened with the help of an electric saw and the electric saw usually cuts through the whole thickness of the skull, but after the saw has been used you use the chisel to pry open the skull so that you can examine the dura and the cranial contents in a proper manner.
Doctor, when you say "Pry open," is there like a hammer or something that goes with that chisel?
No. If the saw has been used properly, the chisel should be able to separate the sawed area so that you can easily open the skull like a cap then examine the cranial contents.
Mr. Kelberg, may I see you and Mr. Shapiro for a moment, please, without the reporter.
Doctor, if we could get the arrow back and move to the last three instruments I think that are there. There are two instruments that appear similar in nature where Mr. Fairtlough has the arrow. What are those?
Their purpose is to help in opening up the body and any other dissection and sectioning of tissues necessary for storage.
And the last instrument--I think it is the last instrument in this photograph, is it, doctor?
That is a larger scissor which is constructed in a manner which has a--which can be used to open the intestines.
You have to examine the intestine, not only to see the contents but also to see the lining of the intestine to see if there is any disease process, like you can have cancer, you can have diverticulitis, because the colon and intestines have normal disease processes which can only be found if you open the intestine.
Now, Mr. Fairtlough if I can exchange photographs with you, I think we need this one to focus this as well.
These are the containers set up before an autopsy for a full toxicology and tissue saving during the autopsy. You have two glass bottles on the left side which are used to collect urine and bile, if available. Then you have two other plastic containers. One is used for collecting of stomach contents; another one is used for collecting liver specimen, if necessary. The next jar is a plastic jar which has formalin in it and this is to remove representative sample of tissue and preserve it in formalin so that any microscopic studies, if performed, the tissue would be available, and this is the jar containing tissue which is saved after an autopsy.
Would this be a jar that would be used, for example, to save representative sections of the brains of the decedent?
And each of the items that you've identified so far in the photograph appear to have a band around the item. Do you see that?
Yes. Those are the labels used in the Coroner's office, and depending on what item is collected, you mark the box. If it is urine, you mark the urine box. If it is bile, you mark the bile box, et cetera.
If Mr. Fairtlough could switch for a moment to photo 53, and I would ask, your Honor, it be marked as 326.
Yes. This is the label which is the white structure you saw pasted on order those bottles and plastic containers, and depending on what the specimen is, if the arrow can go down, you mark the box. Suppose you had had the same label on the plastic container which you collect the gastric contents, you would naturally mark the box for the stomach. Now, on the lower part you have histopathology and that part is completed if you have the same label on the jar which has the formalin in it, so--and there we have three boxes there, which are self-explanatory.
Doctor, whose responsibility is it to check the box that corresponds to what is going to be in the container?
The doctor and the technician. The doctor has to also initial the containers after they remove the specimen.
Now, you say the responsibility is on both individual, the doctor and the technician?
If it is ultimately the medical doctor's responsibility to mark the box or make sure it is marked.
Now, in this particular case, involving both Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, did you find, after your meeting or in the course of your meeting with Dr. Baden, that there had been a mistake made in labeling?
I would have to refer to my notes to remember which decedent it was, that mistake.
Could you do that, and while you are doing that, if Mr. Fairtlough could go back to the photograph that has the jars, which is our exhibit 325.
(Witness complies.) the specimen was that of Mr. Ron Goldman where the bile specimen was saved, but the bottle label was marked as urine.
One is a light amber yellowish color. The bile is thick greenish black in color and anybody can tell the difference between bile and urine.
In your opinion does this mistake affect in any way your ability to answer the issues that you have reviewed for your testimony here today?
KEY QUOTEWere there any other mistakes in labeling that were found in the course of either your meeting on June 22nd with Dr. Baden or any other review?
We already discussed the mistake of the non-marking of the fingernail kit envelope in which the scrapings were not marked outside as though they had been taken, even though they had been taken, and that is one mistake, I remember, and this one.
Which of these jars or cups was it in type, that is, which had the bile mistakenly labeled as urine?
This is Mr.--the glass bottles, the jar which is used for collection of urine and bile. That would be--go to the left.
If it is available and if the doctor thinks it is indicated. The collection of toxicology on cases is up to the physician, because we only collect toxicology if we need it for the cause and manner of death.
And in your opinion, from the review of all of the materials you have reviewed which we will identify later, was urine necessary for the answers to those questions?
Now, doctor, if we could have Mr. Fairtlough move the arrow down to that and maybe move the photograph, actually, so we will center it on the item at the far right. And that is item--and maybe we can get the arrow going the other way. Maybe we can just move it to the--their we go. Doctor, what is this series of materials?
You have a blood bottle and that is the bottle which contains sodium fluoride and--
That is a preservative which is used when we collect blood and in it is certain enzymes which prevent conversion of some drugs which may be present. For example, there is the enzyme cholinesterase, C-H-O-L-I-N-E-S-T-E-R-A-S-E, which is present in the blood which can metabolize some of the drugs sometimes and the sodium fluoride also inhibits that and is also used as a preservative.
Because you have postmortem conversion of common drug which I can give you an example is cocaine which can be converted to benzoylecgonine.
And is the preservative aspect of the sodium fluoride, what is that intended to do then?
And in fact in the case of both Mr. Goldman and Ms. Brown Simpson were their blood samples tested for blood alcohol levels?
Now, what are the other two devices or materials that are rubberbanded around this big vial?
Ethyline Diamine Tetra Acetate Acid. It is a calcium chelating agent. It basically prevents clotting of blood in the tube.
Because it is used for serological analysis and for serological analysis you need unclotted blood.
Serological analysis, I believe there has been a lot testimony during the last few weeks on serology and so forth, but basically, for the record, is this basically to test their blood types, for example?
This is a tube commercially provided to the Coroner's office which is also prepared with the EDTA in the tube?
What about the label that is around it? Is that already provided in the commercially-provided vial?
No. That label is supplied from our office, and the next structure next to it is the syringe I was talking to you about, a plastic syringe.
This syringe then is to take blood from the pericardial sac as you identified earlier?
By the doctor, and the name is already previously imprinted. The doctor checks the correctness of the number and the name and also initials the tube.
When you say "The number," are we talking about this individualized number that the Coroner's office assigns on each case?
And I think--is there any possibility, Mr. Fairtlough, of perhaps turning this to the right ninety degrees?
Before we do that, doctor, what is this--I would ask, your Honor, this be marked as 327.
This is the label that goes on the test-tube which we just discussed and it has got the date, the DME's name and the name of the decedent there, I think.
Let me pull out the photograph just so we can perhaps have it a little clearer. Your Honor, I don't know if the Court wants this marked as a separate sub exhibit or will be satisfied with the first photo printout?
Basically the space on the--the empty space is used for the imprinting of the card with the name and number and the date, the DME's name and whether the blood was taken from the heart or cavity. Sometimes if a person has had injuries which have caused a lot of bleeding, you may not have any blood in the heart available, as it happened in Mr. Ron Goldman. Dr. Golden submitted the right pleural blood for toxicology.
In Mr. Goldman's case, from your review of the materials, there was not sufficient blood available in the pericardial sac?
Because he had a lot of injuries which caused significant bleeding and so the blood from the chest cavity was submitted.
Yes, because as long as the chest cavity is separated from the abdominal cavity, and the--there is no evidence of injury to the gastrointestinal track communicating with the blood collected, we have used it. And in this case this was collected but the key thing is to mark the origin from where you collected the blood and that is why we have the other box that says the word "Other" there.
Thank you, Mr. Fairtlough. And if we could have photo 58, please. And your Honor, I would ask this be marked as exhibit 328.
This is the--a room which is an extension from the evidence room where the evidence custodian stores the evidence in the Coroner's office. What you are seeing is different shelves containing bags of clothing from different decedents, each separately labeled and packaged. Of course the clothing in all these decedents have been previously dried in the process I already explained and they are stored there until they have been retrieved by a law enforcement agency.
And do all of them appear to have the same kind of packaging or do some have like a clear plastic to the outside and others appear to have a brown wrapping?
They have a browning wrapping, but some of them also have another meshed sheet around them.
The--the reason is to separate out the--the brown paper covered clothing from each other in bag manner because sometimes there is soaking of the paper also sometimes.
Yes, and then you open up the brown paper cover and look at the clothing, you have to look at the evidence, like we did with Dr. Baden and Dr. Wolf.
Mr. Fairtlough, could we have photo 81, please, and your Honor, I ask that this be marked as 329.
These are the freezers and refrigerators where we store our serological samples and blood swatches.
The EDTA tube is stored in the refrigerator. The blood swatch is stored in the freezer.
And in this particular case were blood swatches prepared from blood collected from each of the decedents?
And is the first--if Mr. Fairtlough moves the arrow to the right, is this first item a freezer, top to bottom?
They are refrigerators also present where we store the EDTA specimens, serological tubes.
What happens then if somebody--well, let me withdraw the question if I might, your Honor. Assuming toxicology is going to be done, for example, for alcohol or drugs, what is the process? Does that blood sample go to toxicology first and then come back down or does toxicology get the sample from the refrigerator? How does it work?
This area is not for storing toxicological specimens. The toxicology is stored in a different area. We have a section on the second floor of our office and also in the service level we have a separate refrigerated area for toxicological specimens which is the bile, the stomach contents and blood bottles. This area is mainly for the swatches and EDTA tubes.
And doctor, assuming that law enforcement wants to obtain those samples that are being either refrigerated or frozen, would this be the area from which they would be obtained?
Yes. The evidence custodian who releases the evidence would release those serological samples.
Let me go back on toxicology. Wherever the blood sample ends up in this other location or locations you mentioned, what is the procedure? Is toxicology done first? That is, after the blood is collected in the appropriate bottle with the sodium fluoride preservative, does it go immediately for toxicology testing or does it go someplace else?
The tox--the blood sample goes to the toxicology lab, as I said, in the areas which I already discussed. But whether a toxicology test is ordered--I mean, whether a toxicology test is performed is whether a toxicology test is ordered by the doctor. The doctor has to order the test.
There are forms that are filled out by the doctor, like Dr. Golden, who indicate if in fact he or she wishes a toxicology test?
Mr. Fairtlough, I think we are done with the photographs. And your Honor, I have now some other paper exhibits, and perhaps these can be marked starting at exhibit 330-A and just go down the letters. I have what appears to be a form 12 autopsy report as 330-A; a similar form 12, but without the heading at the top, as b; a form 15, which appears to have multiple pages of different colors, white, pink, yellow, as c; a form 16 autopsy check sheet as d; a form 34, which appears to show skull outlines, as e; a form 20 that appears to show the front and back of the outline of a human being as I guess we are up to f; a form 20-F that has what appears to be some skull and face outlines as g; a form 20-G we are one letter behind on the scheme, but a 20-G, which appears to show the outline of part of the neck and head and skull, as h; a form 29, which appears to show areas of the brain; a form 24, which appears to show areas of the neck internally, as J. I think I left out I for 29. A form 23 showing outlines of the hand, left and right, as j--
K. Mr. Lynch has got to write faster or I've got to talk slower. A form 22 showing again the head and neck area as l; a form 21 showing the side views of a human outline, left and right, as m; a form 28, which appears to show the external skull and the internal cavity of the skull as N, as in Nancy; and a form 27, which appears to show the skeletal outline front and back of a human being as O. May they be so marked accordingly?
And I believe Mr. Fairtlough has these items available for showing on the screen. Doctor, let me show you all of these exhibits, 330-A through O. In general terms are you familiar with what these documents are?
The form 15 is the medical report and this is the form used by the doctor when he or she completes the autopsy to document the cause of death, and if the case has been deferred for further studies, there will be notations in the chart on this form as to why the case is being deferred for further study. This could include, toxicology, neuropathology, study of the brain in detail, or doing histological studies, that is, to study microscopic sections of the tissues. And this form also has a space for the specimens collected during autopsy.
Let me stop you just quickly enough to ask Mr. Fairtlough, who has already pulled the page, to put it up on the screen. And this is a copy of exhibit 330-C. I think we want to go back to a and B, the form 12's, but let's start with this one. And if Mr. Fairtlough could zoom in a little bit starting at the top portion of the document.
And this area, if an arrow can be used to cover this, "Death was caused by," and we can see the words "Or as a consequence" of repeated three times, was is that block to contain?
As I told you, the doctor that does the cause of death and the format used here is the same format which is used on the death certificate so that this information is used by the clerical personnel in the death certification unit in the Coroner's office to type up the death certificate, so this is where the doctor enters the cause of death. Now, about--if the doctor is not able to determine the cause of death, he would mark--or she would mark the box called "Pending" which is on the left upper corner and then the reason why the cause of death was deferred will be marked off, either toxicology or the doctor needs more medical history or the doctor needs a follow-up investigation from the law enforcement. So depending on what the reason is, that particular box will be completed. The--it is important on the top you have the class of autopsy, A, B and C, which I alluded to earlier. The a and B are the complete autopsies and c is the partial exam, any performed by the doctor, so this will give you an idea if an examination is performed or an autopsy was performed, and if the latter was done, whether it is a complete autopsy or a partial, and then let's move down.
Yes. That is the comprehensive autopsy which includes photography, toxicology and all the homicide cases are treated like "A" cases in which they get all the work-up which the doctor feels necessary.
Doctor, both of the cases, Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, were handled as class a autopsies?
All right. And is this form filled out either during the course of the autopsy or immediately afterwards?
Portions could be filled during, because you can mark off the "Toxicology" section, what you collected at that time, but the cause of death and the rest of the form will be completed at the end of the autopsy, because as you move down the form, can you--can you move the form, please? You have the "Mode of death" there.
Go back a little bit higher, a bit--bit furthermore up the form so you can go to the lower part of the form.
Yes, yes. You can see some areas called organ procurement, witnesses to the autopsy, pertinent comments, evidence recovered, so if any process takes place during the autopsy which needs to be documented, can be documented during the autopsy. That space is available below the statements.
Incidentally, there is a box for "Witnesses to autopsy." In homicide cases is it usual that there will be at least one witness who is not a member of the Coroner's office witnessing the autopsy?
Yes. We allow the law enforcement investigating officer to attend the autopsy, because this has been the practice in the Coroner's office for many years.
Is it customary during the coarse of the autopsy for the medical examiner to talk with the officer, or if there is more than one officer, officers, to get additional information that may be pertinent to the evaluation being performed by the medical examiner?
Now, doctor, if we could go back to that area "Natural accidents, suicide, homicide and undetermined," I think on Friday you defined the concept of "Manner of death"; is that correct?
And if we could now, Mr. Fairtlough, go to the right side of the document about midway and below. Your right. And if we could get more of the right side of the document in and perhaps raise the document so we will see the bottom portion. No. Raise it up to show the bottom, please. And stop about there, please.
Now, doctor, let's start with this entry area for "Toxicological specimens collected" and there are a whole bunch of boxes and so forth. No. 1, what is the purpose behind that area of the form?
That reflects what specimens were collected, and if no specimens were collected, you mark off the boxes giving the information. For example, if somebody had been hospitalized and they were more than 24 hours in the hospital, then we will mark the box over "24 hours in the hospital" and "No blood being collected." And then below that is what kind of screen one would like to request on a particular case. You have a c screen, an h screen, a d screen and an s screen.
They reflect different types of drugs analyzed. The c screen is a comprehensive complete toxicology, the h screen is what we order in homicide cases. That would include alcohol, the drugs like PCP, cocaine, narcotics, amphetamines. T screen is a traffic screen. Basically you order alcohol, barbiturates and amphetamines and the s screen is similarly a toxicology screen which we do in SIDS death which we do in testing for drugs which I just mentioned and other prescription drugs.
The h screen that you mentioned in all homicide cases, was an h screen done, toxicological h screen done for both blood samples of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman?
Yes, it was, and actually after the laboratory ordered, I extended it to a c screen just to complete the screen.
Doctor, if we could move up again, under "Toxicological specimens collected" there are a lot of boxes that seem to be similar to that label we saw in one of the earlier photographs that you indicated should be checked off and one of them was erroneously checked off as urine which in fact was bile. Do you see that area?
This is a form to be filled out by the doctor. This is a medical report. The doctor fills out this form.
Now, doctor, did you find--before we do that, if you could pull out the actual form 15, the hard document that I gave you, and hold it up for us, if you would, please.
It is a multiple-page document that is a white copy, gold copy, a pink copy and a darker yellow copy here.
When the medical examiner has this form at time of autopsy, is it in the condition that you are holding it, that is, with all of the copies?
Because after the medical examiner completes it, when--before it goes to the certification desk, they separate out a form which is the yellow copy. If you look in the bottom--if you go to the bottom, if you go to the bottom below the toxicology, a little more down, a little more down, you can see where each copy goes. The white goes to the file, the canary copy--I'm sorry I used color yellow--it is a canary copy which goes to the lab, pink goes to investigations and the goldenrod is the doctor's copy because we train a lot of doctors and the residents like to keep a copy and also our regular doctors keep a copy for themselves for their record, so that is the reason we have four copies.
Now, doctor, in discussing the bile/urine mistake, where is that material going? To any of the--don't move that please, Mr. Fairtlough. To any of those laboratories, forensic lab, investigation copy and so forth?
The bile/urine is in the bottle. The mistake was on the bottle; not on the form. But these are copies of this whole document which go to these areas.
Does a copy of this document go with, for example, a jar that might have the stomach contents?
No. There will be one copy which goes to the toxicology lab and the toxicology division will see whether the specimens which were marked off on the form are actually received in the lab. This is like a cross-check of the specimens received in comparison to the form because the doctor may order certain tests based on the specimens he or she submitted, but the toxicology lab will double-check whether they received the specimens.
In your review of this case did you find that there was a mistake made with respect to the labeling of stomach contents retained from Ronald Goldman?
Mr. Fairtlough, before you--if Mr. Fairtlough could get back to that area and back it up just so we can see the bigger picture of that area. Thank you.
So if Dr. Golden were to mark stomach contents having been retained from Mr. Goldman, it should be a that white form and all of the underlying copies; is that accurate?
Now, did you find in your review that one or more of the copies did have a marking in the box for stomach contents for Mr. Goldman?
What happened was the lab had received the stomach contents of Mr. Goldman and that was reflected in the--by the way, there is another log sheet which is maintained in the autopsy room which documents the specimens submitted during autopsy, and that log sheet had documented that the stomach contents were submitted on Mr. Goldman. And when that log sheet and specimens were received in the toxicology lab, it was found that the yellow sheet, which they had, the second copy, the canary copy, did not have the stomach contents marked, so they marked that the stomach contents were received.
Now, doctor, do you consider this to be a mistake by Dr. Golden not to have marked on the white copy?
Does that mistake have any significance to you in evaluating any of the issues you've evaluated for your testimony here today?
It is just an arrow in marking a box. It has nothing to do with the cause of death or manner of death. And the specimen was collected, so it is an error, but I don't think it is significant enough to affect the cause and manner of death.
Doctor, if we could move to the form 12, which is page 123, Mr. Fairtlough, and I would ask, doctor, the first page form 12. Do you have that?
And so this will actually not have handwritten information generally, it will all be in typed fashion?
And the second form 12 which is page 124, Mr. Fairtlough--and your Honor, may that be--I'm sorry, we have already marked that, that was 330-A and this is 330-B. And if we could back up just to see the full document.
Is this what each of the subsequent pages looks like before the transcriber puts the words on paper?
Now, if we could move, doctor, form 16, which is our exhibit 330-D, as in dog, and is page 126, Mr. Fairtlough. This autopsy check sheet, what is the purpose of this sheet, doctor?
The purpose of the sheet is for the doctor to enter the major findings as the autopsy process progresses, documenting the weights of the various organs, any abnormal pathology they may find, and there are different areas in the form giving information on the different organs, so the doctor just completes the information.
I'm going as to ask, Mr. Fairtlough, if he can, to make it a little clearer. Getting up closer to see parts of it. If that is the best we are going to be able to do--
Now, if Mr. Fairtlough could go to the bottom of the document; the real bottom. There we go. And also get it to include the left side.
The doctor completes the date the autopsy was done, the time he or she started it and completed it, and the doctor signs the report.
Doctor, in the case of Nicole Brown Simpson did Dr. Golden indicate the time during which he performed her autopsy?
He started the autopsy at 8:30 in the morning on June 14th, 1994, and completed it at 10:30. This is the autopsy part of it; not the dictation.
And if you need to refresh your memory can you tell us the time, if any, indicated by Dr. Golden regarding how long he spent on the autopsy of Ronald Goldman?
I would like to refresh my memory. When it comes to times I want to be accurate.
On Mr. Goldman the autopsy started at 10:30 on June 14th, 1994, and the autopsy is reflected as having been completed at 1300 hours on June 14th, 1994.
Doctor, given what you knew when you examined the bodies briefly on the 13th, given what you now know from your review of all of the materials, do you consider two and a half hours to have been an appropriate time to perform the autopsy of Ronald Goldman?
The multiplicity of injuries which I saw, if the time reflected is accurate, because sometimes the doctors may spend more time but after the--when they are doing the filling out of the paperwork--I would feel that it should have taken more time than two and a half hours.
Approximately how long, in your opinion, should it have taken to completely and properly perform the autopsy of Ronald Goldman?
I would say about four to five hours, if you want to diagram every small injury.
That is our goal in the Coroner's office, to document every injury accurately and truthfully so that it can be preserved because you only have one shot at doing a good job.
Incidentally, doctor, is there a manual that you have responsibility for having written, called the "Deputy medical examiner procedure manual last revised, 1992, 12th edition"?
Let me read something to you and ask if this is in fact what you have written in that manual?
The bile is thick greenish black in color and anybody can tell the difference between bile and urine.
Not in the pericardial sac, the heart. Because he had a lot of injuries which caused significant bleeding and so the blood from the chest cavity was submitted.
The mistake was on the bottle; not on the form.
In your opinion does this mistake affect in any way your ability to answer the issues that you have reviewed for your testimony here today?