All right. Dr. Lakshmanan, would you resume the witness stand, please.
Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran, having been previously been sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
Doctor, you are reminded, sir, you are still under oath. Mr. Kelberg, you may continue with your direct. And let me ask, Mr. Bancroft, you are directed not to attempt to train the television camera on any photographic depiction of any of the victims or any of their body parts. Same direction to the still photographers.
Thank you, your Honor. And good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. KELBERG
Dr. Lakshmanan, when we were last in court on Friday, I had shown you a photograph that depicted a scale and the measuring device used to measure the heights and the scale to measure the weights of the decedents as they arrive at the Coroner's office. And we printed out that photograph, but I don't believe, your Honor, for the record, that I formally marked it. It is exhibit 299 for identification.
And your Honor, the Court may recall that at the completion of Friday's testimony, with the form 1's which have been marked 298-A and B, there was some identifying information on family addresses for the victims which by agreement with counsel could be whited out and the whited out documents substituted in their stead. And that is what Mr. Fairtlough has very competently done and I would ask that they be marked as they previously were, but in the whited out condition, 298-A and B.
Doctor, we were taking, in essence, a tour of the Coroner's office with respect to the procedures used once the bodies in this case of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman arrive. And we are waiting for our laser disk to arrive so we have to go to a somewhat more old-fashioned way of continuing the tour. You had stopped at the area where the bodies were weighed and measured. And now, your Honor, we have another photograph which I'm asking Mr. Fairtlough to place on the elmo, which when it is printed out, your Honor, I would ask to be marked as exhibit 300.
This is the reception area in the same room where the weighing scale and measuring device were present. It is on the other side of the room.
What is to be done at this location once the bodies have been weighed and measured?
We usually--this is the area where the crypt space and body control cards are kept. That is, we have information on where the bodies are located in the department in the crypt space.
And these two gentleman that appear in this photograph 300, are these people who are responsible for giving the assigned spaces?
Incidentally, doctor, when the investigator goes to the scene to take custody of the bodies, is the investigator given an individualized number that will be applied for each case?
Yes. We start with the no. 1 for each year, and depending on the case number for that particular day, that is the case number assigned to a particular decedent, and the investigator puts a band on the body.
And in this particular case was an individualized number given for the body of Nicole Brown Simpson?
Is there anything further that you need to describe from this particular photograph 300?
And if I can exchange with Mr. Fairtlough another photograph that I ask the Court to mark when it is printed out as exhibit 301.
That is a rack where you have the location of all the cards with reference to all the decedents in the office on a particular day.
They are the body control cards and the tags which refer to crypt space a particular decedent is located in.
Which crypt space, if you know, was assigned for the body of Nicole Brown Simpson?
You have a series of materials in front of you that appear to be in two big binders. What are those materials, doctor?
These are the case records of both the decedents as filed in the Coroner's Department.
Is there a document you can refer to that will refresh your recollection as to the specific crypt assignment?
And in fact is there some kind of impression, inked impression that is placed on the record that reflects the crypt assignment for each of the bodies?
Is there anything further in this photograph 301 that is of significance in the process of the handling of these bodies?
I have another photograph which I'm handing to Mr. Fairtlough and ask, your Honor, that it be marked as exhibit 302.
Doctor--incidentally, doctor, when you are going to speak, if you will be sure you turn this way toward the microphone. I know it will help. I know it is tough to look and speak at the same time. If you are sure to speak outward, it will be helpful to everybody. What are we looking in this photograph?
This is the area where every decedent is photographed as soon as they come to the Coroner's office so we have a picture of their appearance when initially brought to the Coroner's office.
What is the purpose of taking a photograph of the body as the body initially arrives at the Coroner's office?
So we have some information on the condition of the body. No. 2, also it is a kind of an identification type of photograph.
In this photograph, doctor, is the camera that was--first of all, was there a camera on June 13th, 1994?
Because the camera had some problems because the photographs were getting jammed and we ordered a new camera now.
Doctor, were photographs taken of the bodies of Nicole Brown Simpson and Mr. Goldman when they arrived on June 13th, 1994?
Was there anything unusual about the pictures that were taken by the camera in place at that time?
There was a malfunction of the camera and we had superimposition of the photographs of both the decedents, so they were not very useful.
KEY QUOTEYou do have those pictures, whatever their condition may be? I'm not asking you to show them, but I just want to be sure do you have those pictures that were taken by that camera?
Doctor, is there anything else that takes place with respect to photography in this area that is shown in this particular photograph?
This is the area called the decedent processing room where fingerprints are performed, evidence is collected, and this is a portion of the room.
What kind of evidence is collected in this particular area, besides having fingerprints taken?
Usually hair evidence is collected, fingernail clippings can be done, fingernail scrapings, et cetera.
The hair that you are talking about comes from various areas of each decedent's body?
It could be the forensic attendant or the investigator or the criminalist who is doing the examination and collection of evidence.
In the case of Ms. Brown Simpson, was a collection of reference hair sample taken?
With respect to fingernail scrapings and clippings, were representative samples taken from Nicole Brown Simpson?
Who had done all of these things, starting with the hair through the clippings and scrapings of Ms. Brown Simpson?
An explanation was that the nails were too short to do clippings and they did not do any nail scrapings.
Your Honor, I have another photograph to exchange with the one Mr. Fairtlough has up. And ask that it be marked as exhibit--I'm saved. I don't have to fumble any more. We have our--for the record, we have our laser disk back.
And it is no. 14, and again, your Honor, when this is printed out it will be exhibit 304, I believe.
I spoke too quickly, your Honor. I'm not technically oriented. I'm going to go back to the photograph to zoom in.
If Mr. Fairtlough could go to my left and down a bit--I'm sorry, the other direction. Sorry. You were back fine on the left. I want to focus in, if you would, please, on those two trays on the left side to begin with to see if we can read what is written there.
Yes, I have brought an opened sample and I will have an opened sample in the box there, but I can show the open sample, which is easier to--
Your Honor, for the record, Dr. Lakshmanan has handed me actually two sample kits, but I'm going to start with one which appears to be labeled "Fingernail kit" at the top, "Department of Coroner County of Los Angeles." May this kit and it contents--and on the back, by the way, for the record, it has a seal saying, "Warning: Sealed evidence, do not tamper." May this be marked as exhibit 304-A?
You may. Either counsel may approach the witness without asking leave of the Court.
Doctor, would you, holding it up, tell us what it is, take us through the process of how that kind of kit is used.
Umm, the envelope itself has information which needs to be completed with reference to the case number, the name of the decedent and also you have information on what type of evidence has been collected from a particular person, so it has got a seal here. And when the evidence has been collected naturally the red seal is placed to secure the evidence which has been collected, and when you--shall I open the envelope?
And this is the envelope marked for fingernail kit and this envelope usually contains the fingernail scrapings also. And I will explain what it is.
For the record, your Honor, Dr. Lakshmanan has broken the white seal on the back of the envelope and he appears to have removed--I can't see how many number of envelopes.
There are about four envelopes here. One is for the right hand nail scrapings.
Is that the individualized number you identified previously with respect to each of the decedents?
Yes. Then we have for the right hand, fingernail scrapings, same number and process. Then we have for the left hand, fingernail clippings and left hand fingernail scrapings. And there is a difference in the content of the envelopes. The scraping envelope also have what's called a birch stick.
Birch stick, b-I-r-c-h, birch stick, which is used to scrape the nail bed after the clippings have been obtained.
So this is a prepared kit that is available for someone like Miss Ratcliffe to take one out of the bin and with each decedent use that kit to collect scrapings and clippings?
And then what is someone like Miss Ratcliffe supposed to do with--let's start with scrapings are taken first?
No. Usually they take the clippings first, usually use a scissor, because if you use a nail clipper sometimes the nail will fly, so you use a scissor and you cut the nail and after that you do the scrapings of the nail base.
And then what does someone like Ms. Ratcliffe do as far as collecting that material?
As I have to show you would be--open one of the envelopes. I show you the birch stick and there is a bindle of paper which is available inside each envelope.
(Witness complies.) and the bindle is usually opened and the evidence is collected in such a manner that it falls on the bindle paper and then it is closed back and placed back in the envelope so this way the evidence is secured.
Is Ms. Ratcliffe, or whoever is to do this, supposed to wear gloves of some sort when performing the procedure?
And then once there has been the collection made, what happens with these individual envelopes?
They are sealed and then dropped off in the evidence drop box which is available in the same room.
I think we have a picture of that come up momentarily. If I could have that exhibit back, 304-A. And now, your Honor, ask that this second kit that Dr. Lakshmanan handed me that has the word "Decedent's hair kit" and a similar-appearing seal, may this be marked collectively at 304-B, as in boy?
Doctor, would you basically take us through the same process you just did with the fingernail kit as to what this new exhibit is.
--premarked envelope for the particular evidence being collected. This is a decedent hair kit and inside this envelope--I'm breaking the seal for this envelope, and each of the envelopes has the Coroner's case number, the decedent's name and when we open the envelope, there are four other envelopes inside the main envelope. One is for facial hair and the facial hair envelope has separate bindles. Each of them marked for eyelash, eyebrow, beard and mustache, if it is a male. Then there is an envelope for head hair.
Head hair. (Witness complies.) this is an envelope for chest hair, depending on what is collected, and arm hair, (Indicating).
How is the hair collected from each of the areas from which hair will be collected?
Basically the hair is plucked with the root so that you have the root also available. Usually you collect anywhere up to a hundred hair--hundred hair samples from the head area and you collect hair from the front, back and sides and top.
You pluck them with--either you can use a tweezer or you can also just pluck it. You can easily get it out.
This same process. The evidence is placed in the main envelope, sealed and dropped off in the drop box.
If I could ask Mr. Fairtlough to take the photograph down for just a moment. Incidentally, your Honor, for the record, let me write on the back of the exhibit 304-A, that designation, and on the back of the hair kit, 304-B.
And if I could have Mr. Fairtlough please put on the elmo the exhibit 304-A, and perhaps--I need to go to the eye doctor, but it looks a little out of focus to me.
Doctor, is there information here that is supposed to be completed by the person collecting the scrapings and clippings?
And what, in essence, is to be done by someone like Ms. Ratcliffe with respect to this form?
All the evidence, which is collected needs to be completed on the envelope, in addition to filling out the case number and the decedent's name.
And I think just under the bold "Fingernail kit" there is a line where the decedent's name is to go?
And to the right of that--my eyesight is getting better--to the right of that is the Coroner's case number where it is to be placed?
Yes. And also you have information which needs to be completed with reference to what was collected, yes and no, and also you need to fill out whether the evidence was collected at the scene or at the Forensic Science Center, which is the Coroner's office.
There also appears in what I displayed here, something underneath the area of "By" and "Date" and "Time," something "Received from evidence." What does that refer to?
I had mentioned earlier the evidence is dropped in the drop box. There is an evidence custodian for the office who retrieves the evidence from the drop box everyday and transports the evidence to the evidence room where the--all the evidence or all the cases are secured, and if anybody wants to retrieve the evidence, they go to the evidence custodian to get the evidence released to them.
Let me ask Mr. Fairtlough, if he would, please, to put 304-B up so we can see what is the information to be completed on this particular kit.
By the way, you see--I think we also saw it in the other one--"File," "DR number" and "Agency." What is that information to reflect?
Basically it refers to the law enforcement agency investigating a particular crime and they have a DR number.
And in this particular case of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman that would be the Los Angeles Police Department?
Your Honor, I have asked Mr. Fairtlough if he would put on the elmo another photograph which I will ask to be marked as exhibit 305.
And hopefully he will turn it--the other turning. Thank you, Mr. Fairtlough. And actually I would ask Mr. Fairtlough, if he would, please--Mr. Fairtlough, promised me that this was a very smooth procedure.
If we could zoom in on the lower package on the left and if we can focus that a little bit. Thank you.
Doctor, looking at this particular aspect of photograph, 305, are you familiar with what is shown here?
Yes. This is the photograph of the original envelope used in collecting the fingernail evidence on Miss Brown Simpson.
Now, with respect to the writing that appears in "Agency," "File/DR number," "Decedent's name," "Coroner's case number" and the check marks and then the either initials or signature "By" and the "Date and time," are you familiar with whose writing that is?
And is she expected to complete this information immediately after the collection of the particular material that is contained within this fingernail kit?
There also appears to be a check at "Forensic Science Center." Is that also cleated by Ms. Ratcliffe?
Now, doctor, as you look at this particular kit, do you see any check mark in either a yes or no box for the left and right hand fingernail scrapings?
Did you, on June 22nd, 1994, along with Dr. Baden, who is seated again in court with us, have an opportunity to review the contents of this particular envelope?
When you reviewed the contents of this envelope, what, if anything, did you find inside the envelope?
Does it appear, from what you have found, that Ms. Ratcliffe simply failed to check those two boxes on this particular form?
Doctor, did there appear to be anything out of the ordinary with respect to what you saw in the interior of that kit that would cause you to have believed that there was a mistake with respect to the collection itself that was inside that envelope, those two packages that are not marked on the front of the envelope?
Doctor, from your experience and your knowledge of the practices of your office, did you find anything out of the ordinary with respect to the contents of this fingernail kit?
There was nothing out of the ordinary in the contents, but the envelope failed to demonstrate that fingernail clippings--fingernail scrapings had been collected.
KEY QUOTEIn your opinion was this a mistake on the part of Miss Ratcliffe not in marking the front of the envelope?
And doctor, does this mistake by Miss Ratcliffe have any significance to you on any of the issues that you have reviewed with respect to things like cause of death, et cetera?
I'm sorry, could we go back to the original photograph for just a moment further.
And the lower part of the envelope, please. This is again back to exhibit 305, the left hand bottom kit and the lower portion. All right.
Doctor, now, I would like Mr. Fairtlough to focus in on the part starting with "Evidence collected" and down to the bottom of the envelope. We've already covered the signature of Ms. Ratcliffe and now I want to go to the "Received in evidence room by." Do you recognize a signature in the "By" box or line of that entry?
And what would his responsibilities be, if any, with respect to handling collected evidence such as this fingernail kit?
He would retrieve it from the drop box and log it in the evidence room and also document this process in the evidence log sheet of the Coroner's office.
We are going to see the drop box and so forth later. But is Mr. Patino expected, at the time that he collects this from the drop box, to make an entry on the kit itself to show he has obtained possession of it?
Doctor, is there anything out of the ordinary of your regular custom and practice with respect to a kit being collected on the 13th at 1:40 in the afternoon, placed in the drop box, but not received by someone like Mr. Patino until the 15th?
There is nothing out of the ordinary. Usually they pick up every morning and in this case they picked it up on the 15th. It seems to be received on the 15th.
Underneath that "Received in" is another set of preprinted words, "Delivered to," "By," "Date" and "Time." What is that intended to refer to?
That--as I had mentioned earlier, the evidence custodian is the one who releases evidence from the Coroner's office. Everybody has to go there to collect any evidence. And in this particular situation that "Delivered to," is the name of the person whom this evidence was released to by Mr. Patino on the 24th and I think I read the name G, I think, I-n-d-e-s.
Assume for the moment that is someone named de Grandis. Is that a Coroner employee?
And then the entry for "Date and time" that appears next to that, was does that refer to?
That is the date and time the evidence was released from the Coroner's office.
Doctor, there appear to be two entries in that series of entries you just referred to. What, if anything, do those two refer to?
Those entries were not made at our office. Once the envelope is released I don't have any idea who entered those, but probably the LAPD.
You did not--that is, your office did not retake or regain custody of this kit and its contents; is that correct, once it was released?
Now, if Mr. Fairtlough could move to the second photograph and focus in on the same area of that photograph that we were just focusing in on exhibit 305.
Doctor, does this appear to be the back side of the envelope, the fingernail kit, for Ms. Nicole Brown Simpson that you were just viewing in the previous photograph?
Doctor, there appear to be kind of an American flag; we have a white, a red and a blue. Can you tell us which, if any, of those are Coroner materials?
The original white I already showed you. That is the seal which is broken when the envelope is opened. The red is a seal which is placed after the evidence is collected.
Doctor, if you are going to be speak, it is going to be very helpful if you can speak into the be microphone, so look first.
There is an initial on the tag there, but I'm not sure whether it is her initial or just on the right side. I don't see any initial here.
And I have asked Mr. Fairtlough to put another photograph on the board. On the elmo, excuse me.
This is the hair kit of Miss Brown Simpson, Nicole, which was collected on June 13th, `94.
Again, do you recognize the handwriting or printing that appears in the areas with LAPD and a number and underneath that decedent's name and Coroner's case number?
And there are now--mister--Mr. Fairtlough can raise the photograph so we see a little further down on it and stop in this area, (Indicating). Doctor, there appear to be boxes that have I believe "X's" on them. Do you see that?
And the last entry that has no box collected I can't quite make out. Can you tell us what that would represent?
Now, doctor we drop down to just about the end of that white tape, there appears to be a signature and a date and a time. Do you recognize that?
Doctor, is she expected to put in the time approximately when this material was collected in these particular boxes?
Now, the white tape, does that have any significance to you? There is white and red that we see along the side here.
It is not from our office. It is from the lab which was doing the examination of the evidence.
All right. If we will drop to the bottom now, if perhaps Mr. Fairtlough could raise the document again.
The similar entries which we saw on the other kit. Mr. Patino retrieved this evidence from the drop box on June 15th at seven o'clock in the morning.
He delivered the evidence to the same person, Mr. Grandis, on June 24th at 9:30.
And the entries that appear below the ones you have just described are not made by anyone from the Coroner's office; is that correct?
I have another photograph that I will ask Mr. Fairtlough to please put on the elmo. And ask, your Honor, that this will be marked--I think we are up to 307.
Doctor, does this appear to be the back of the envelope that was just previously up on the screen regarding the hair kit of Nicole Brown Simpson?
And the white seal that is running hor--I'm sorry--vertically in the center top portion, is that a Coroner's seal?
Umm, those could be the--again our evidence--you see, this particular piece of evidence, where retrieved by Claudine, sealed, then again on the 22nd we again examined them with Dr. Baden and again resealed by us.
You resealed it, you and--I'm sorry--after you and Dr. Baden had reviewed the contents of this envelope?
But all of the seals that we are looking at in the center, the white and the two red, are Los Angeles County Coroner's seals of the envelope; is that correct?
I have another photograph that I will ask Mr. Fairtlough put to the elmo and ask that it be marked 309, your Honor.
Yes. This is the evidence envelope reflecting the hair kit collection on Mr. Ron Goldman.
The entries that appear there for agency, DR number, decedent's name and Coroner's case number, do you recognize the writing?
Again now if we drop down a little bit, there appear to be a series of boxes which are checked. What do those entries reflect?
Basically collection of hair from Mr. Ron Goldman; head hair, facial hair and arm hair were collected.
Now, we are back at the "Evidence collected" portion of the document. Do you recognize the entries that appear there?
Miss Claudine Ratcliffe collected them at the Forensic Science Center June 13th, and at 1440 hours.
And dropping down even further, there are some entries. Do you recognize who made those entries?
Yes. It was received in the evidence room by Mr. Patino on June 15th, `94, at seven o'clock.
Then even dropping down further, we have some more entries. What do they reflect?
The evidence was released to Mr. Grandis by Mr. Patino on June 24th, `94, at 9:30 in the morning.
Again there are some entries underneath the ones you have just referred to. Were those made by your personnel?
And I have asked Mr. Fairtlough to put another photograph on the board or the elmo. I'm used to board. Sorry, your Honor. May this be marked as exhibit 310?
Doctor, basically your answers regarding this envelope, the white and the two red cross seals, be the same as your answers were for the back side of the earlier envelope?
Your Honor, the Court may wish to cut the feed. I'm not sure that that is necessary, but out of an abundance of caution. I would ask, your Honor, that this photograph be marked--I think we are up to 311.
If Mr. Fairtlough could zoom in just a little bit so we could read the writing. Center it a little bit.
Doctor, in photograph 311--actually if could you raise it just a little bit, Mr. Fairtlough, so that we can see that blue--the blue rectangular item in this photograph. Doctor, first of all, in general terms, what is that?
This is the fingernail clippings which was taken on Miss Simpson which was opened by Dr. Baden and myself on June 22nd and this is a photograph to reflect the contents of the envelope.
And I was asking actually I think, doctor, on what this blue rectangular item is that the arrow was by at the moment?
The blue rectangular is a measuring--is a card which we use whenever we take a photograph in the Coroner's office. It has got a built-in ruler and you inscribed the Coroner's case number and the date and the name of the photograph, who takes the photograph, and it is always placed in any Coroner's photograph.
The numbers that we see both on the envelope and on the measuring card, 94-5136, is this the individualized number for the case of Nicole Brown Simpson?
And this type of blue measuring card is to be in every photograph that is taken as a part of any case that is being photographed?
Now, doctor--if Mr. Fairtlough could move the arrow to my left and to the white piece of paper. And there appear to be a series of items on this white piece of paper. What are those items?
Did you remove those clippings when they were in that bindle with the bindle having been in the envelope that is seen in this photograph?
We just opened and saw it. We didn't handle it. We closed it back. I have minutes of the meeting what we exactly did.
Is it in the course of this examination that you found that there were scraping envelopes collected?
Your Honor, while Dr. Lakshmanan is doing that, I'm asking Mr. Fairtlough to put another photograph up that I ask to be marked as 312.
And now, in this photograph that has been marked as exhibit 312, what is shown in this photograph?
--I believe it is photograph 304 that we were looking at when we did a close-up of the tray with respect to fingernail kit.
Doctor, now inviting your attention, if Mr. Fairtlough could take the arrow to the top, the countertop of the area displayed here, doctor, do you see some items on the countertop that are used by someone like Ms. Ratcliffe with the bodies as the bodies are brought into this room?
And what kind of fingerprints would someone be expected to take from a body when the body arrives at the area that is shown in this photograph?
Did you find, doctor, once you reviewed this case, that there had been a mistake made with respect to any of the fingerprinting or palmprinting of either of the decedents, Nicole Brown Simpson or Mr. Goldman?
They took the--in Nicole Brown Simpson apparently only the right hand palmprints were taken. The left hand palmprints were not taken.
KEY QUOTENo, I did not, because they were already released, but I have copies of the card.
In the back of the fingerprint card, actually. You have it in the back of the fingerprint cards.
And did the copies of the card that you have show some kind of entry in each side, that is, for a left and a right?
(Witness complies.) I only have the front copy, I don't have the back, because it was released--the cards were released already I think.
To the LAPD and they were the ones who informed us that the palmprints were not taken--left hand was not available.
Doctor, in your opinion does the absence of a left palmprint from Nicole Brown Simpson affect your ability to evaluate the issues that you've evaluated?
Doctor, are you familiar with what is shown in this photograph, 314--313, excuse me?
This is the area where the drop box is located where after the evidence is collected from the decedents it is placed in this kind of drop box and an evidence log is maintained.
And doctor, if Mr. Fairtlough could zoom in on that mailbox like device, and there appears to be some kind of brown envelope in about the middle. Do you see that?
And now he zoomed in where I think you can read something. What does that reflect?
That is the space where the evidence log cards are placed after the evidence has been dropped off in the drop box.
When you say "Log cards are placed," is something to be completed by someone on that card?
There are two log sheets here. One is the evidence log card which belongs to a particular case, so we can have a chain of custody of the evidence. The other is--there is a drop-off log sheet which is also available next to the drop box wherein it is indicated who dropped off what evidence in the drop off box.
What happens with the log card that is placed back in this envelope that is seen in this photograph, 313?
The--this evidence log card is retrieved by the evidence custodian who retrieves the evidence from the drop box.
He retrieves it and it is a card which is used by him and information is completed as and when the evidence is released from the Coroner's office, so there is a chain of custody for the evidence. And if you look at the log sheet, which we will see later, you will have when the evidence was collected, when it was received in the evidence room, to whom it was released, et cetera.
Is that document completed in the ordinary course of business for the Coroner's office by its employees?
And are the entries expected to be made at or near the time of the events which are recorded?
I have another photograph I will ask Mr. Fairtlough to put on the elmo and ask that that be marked as 314, please, your Honor.
But we are now seeing both the front portion of the mailbox and what appears to be the right side of the mailbox; is that correct?
There also appears to be a brown envelope of some sort on the right side. What is that all about?
That is the place where the fingerprint cards are placed after the fingerprints have been obtained on a decedent.
He maintains the same information on the log sheet which I alluded to earlier so that we will have a chain of custody of the fingerprint cards in the Coroner's office.
Is there anything else about the process of the collection of the hair kits, the nail kits and the deposit of those kits as collected that we have not covered that you feel should be brought out?
It is important, you can see a lock there, nobody else has access to that lock except the evidence custodian, so that there is complete security of the evidence once it is dropped off in the lock box, and that is important.
I will ask Mr. Fairtlough to put another photograph on. Ask that it be marked, your Honor, as exhibit 315.
With that box, you say it has got a lock. How could anybody get in to drop something off?
It is like a mailbox on the upper part. You can drop in the evidence, but to retrieve it you need to open it and retrieve it from the lower portion.
And is it fair to say that the security that is provided would be the same as if one wanted to retrieve the letter that they inadvertently dropped in a mailbox?
Now, let's see if we can go to this photograph that is up on the elmo, exhibit 315.
This is the area in the refrigerated room in the Coroner's office where the bodies are placed prior to autopsy. This is an area off the refrigerated crypt space where the homicide cases are kept.
When you say "Crypt space," you mentioned crypt space before and you mentioned spaces 3 and 4 for Ms. Brown Simpson and Mr. Goldman is. This the area you are talking about?
No, no, no. This is the area where we keep all the homicide cases in the crypt space which was earmarked is the space where the bodies are placed after the autopsy and before release, so we can locate the remains at that point.
KEY QUOTEYes. I mean, the whole building is secure and this is a separate entry area into the refrigerated--you see the door there. That is an automatic door entry to the refrigerated crypt space area, and the only people who have access are the employees of the Coroner's office, the forensic attendants and the technicians.
We are looking from the inside towards the door that would lead to the outside of this area?
Because you are storing human remains so that you prevent further deterioration of the body condition which happens after death.
Doctor, you have testified that the bodies were received at the Forensic Science Center on June 13th of 1994. Was any autopsy performed on either body on June 13th, 1994?
Yes, because usually the autopsies are performed the next day. Sometime we do perform autopsies the same day, depending on our case load, but generally the autopsies are performed the following day or the day after, soon after the investigative information is available to the doctor.
Did the bodies of Nicole Brown Simpson and Mr. Goldman come to be placed in this room sometime on the 13th of June, 1994?
Sometime in the midday of June 13th when I was made aware of these two deaths and I met Miss Claudine Ratcliffe and we went down together to look at the decedents in the decedent processing room which I had shown--which we had shown earlier on a photograph.
No. I just examined briefly the external front aspect of both the decedents and at that point I asked Miss Ratcliffe whether a criminalist had been to the scene and I had information that no criminalist had gone to the scene. So I made sure that our criminalist from our office examines the decedents and I called the chief of laboratories and Mr. Mahanay, who is our criminalist at our office, came to look at both the decedents.
Did you do anything other than what you have described with respect to examining the body on the 13th?
Yes. I also wanted to assign the cases to a physician and that is the day I looked at my schedule and I requested Dr. Golden to do both autopsies.
Doctor, take us through the process, if any, that you used in deciding to ask Dr. Golden to perform the autopsies in these two cases.
I had to see who is the experienced pathologist we have who are available, not only on the day these two decedents were brought at our office, which is June 13th, but will the day following and June 15th, because sometimes an autopsy may take more time than necessary. And Dr. Golden was one of the physicians who was available all the three days, as I saw on the schedule, and the others--as I told you earlier, I have twelve board certified forensic pathologists and he was one of the pathologists who was available.
Now, doctor, is there a chief under you who is in charge of the forensic medicine division of the Coroner's office?
Was he available for the three days you felt were necessary, the day that you were seeing the bodies, the 13th, and the two subsequent days?
Was there any other forensic pathologist who you felt might be better suited for these particular cases?
No. I consider all my forensic pathologists to be--who are board certified as experienced and capable, but I do have three senior physicians who also do complex cases when the necessity arises, and all three of them were not working all three days.
Why did you feel it was necessary that whoever was to be assigned the cases had to be there the 13th and the 14th? I think you explained why there may be a need to go over to the 15th, but why did you feel the need for the 13th?
It is very important when you have a homicide case that somebody sees the remains when they are clothed, when the evidence has been collected, and then follow up with their autopsy and then follow through the process of dictation and determining the final cause and manner of death.
Not all of three days because one of them was off on Mondays and the other physician was off on Tuesdays and Wednesday, and the third physician was off on Wednesday, and furthermore, they also are the administrative type of physicians who--who are called operation officers, which I mentioned on Friday, who determine the extent of examination and assign cases, and they do the examinations in the office, that is, the cases which we don't autopsy, they do the examinations.
That is a good question to ask, but I have other responsibilities being the Chief Medical Examiner Coroner. I have numerous responsibilities. I was also doing the administrative function of Dr. Rogers.
Did you think that it might be beneficial to you personally to handle these cases?
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our regular 10:30 break. Please remember all my admonitions. Please don't discuss the case amongst yourselves, form any opinions about the case, don't allow anybody to communicate with you, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. We will take a break for fifteen minutes. All right. Doctor, you can step down.
There was a malfunction of the camera and we had superimposition of the photographs of both the decedents, so they were not very useful.
There was nothing out of the ordinary in the contents, but the envelope failed to demonstrate that fingernail clippings--fingernail scrapings had been collected.
They took the--in Nicole Brown Simpson apparently only the right hand palmprints were taken. The left hand palmprints were not taken.
No, no.