All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. And Miss Brockbank, would you resume the witness stand, please. Miss Clark.

Thank you, your Honor. Good evening. It feels like it is ten o'clock at night.

On August the 5th did you pack everything up for the purpose of taking a trip?

Yes, I did.

And what was that? What trip was that?

Umm, I packed up the evidence to be transported by me to the FBI laboratory in Washington D.C.

Now, what items were they that you took with you to Washington D.C.?

Shall I give you a list?

Why don't you refer to the board that has been marked as People's 463 and tell us by referring to that board.

Is that 436?

436. Thank you, your Honor.

May I get up?

(Nods head up and down.) Maybe you could just--do you see the items on that board that you took with you?

Yes. It--well, I'm a little confused. Umm--

Let me help you out. Some of those items on the board you took with you on August 5th and some of them you did not, correct?

That's correct.

Why don't you point out the ones that you did take with you on August the 5th.

Would you like to use the pointer?

I'm sorry?

Pointer.

Would you like a pointer?

A pointer.

Here you go, I'm sorry. Okay.

Can I do this and refer to my notes at the same time?

Sure.

Okay. Item no. 19, the hair and trace from no. 9, I took that item.

That was the coin envelope that had--into which hair and trace from the Rockingham glove had been placed by Dennis Fung?

Yes.

Okay.

Item 38 is not on the board.

Right. Did you take actual evidence items also, not just hair and trace bindles, but also evidence items?

I think the only actual evidence item I took was item 38, which was the knit hat.

The blue knit cap?

Yes.

All right. Then I took 73--73, Goldman's hair kit; 83, Nicole's hair kit; and 74, which is also not on the board, which was some hairs, I believe.

Was that a hair?

A coin envelope.

A small brown bag that had been placed with--in the shoe bag for Ron Goldman by the Coroner's office?

I don't know where it originated from, but it was a brown bag marked "Hairs" and it was in with the evidence items taken from Mr. Goldman.

Okay.

Did I say 83 already, Nicole's hair kit?

I believe so.

Okay. Umm, 110 through 113, all of those items, which are the debris I removed from items 9 and 27, 37 and 38.

Okay. Now, let me stop you one second. You earlier indicated to us that everything, all the bindles were closed up and sealed in coin envelopes which were placed in analyzed evidence envelopes and sealed, correct?

Yes.

Is that the manner in which they were transported also?

Umm, for the majority of the items, yes; but for some items, no.

Tell us when no.

Okay. Items 73, 74 and 83 were originally packaged in a larger package with some other items, and those individual envelopes contained evidence which were individually sealed also, never opened by me, were placed in a--in a manila envelope which I marked on and the markings were removed from a package marked--that was originally marked, contained these items and some others by me on a certain date. So that was 73, 74 and 83.

And what about 122, the hair sample of Mr. Simpson?

122 was in its original package and it was not removed from there.

Okay. A umm--excuse me, Miss Brockbank. Counsel, may it be stipulated that at no time did Miss Brockbank unseal the sealed hair sample envelope for either Ronald Goldman, Nicole Brown or the Defendant until she arrived at the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

So stipulated.

All right. Thank you, counsel.

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Okay. Umm--

So the exemplars or the hair sample for the victims and for the Defendant were each in their own envelope, correct?

Yes.

And they were each sealed?

Yes. The other items that I took were items 122, which was individually packaged by itself, and then 123 through 130, which are not pictured here on the board. Also item 141 which is not pictured on the board; items 153 through 169, some of which are pictured on the board; 163, 64, 165, 166, 167 and 169 are included in that group.

Uh-huh.

And item 221. Those are the items that I took to the FBI laboratory.

All right. And did you also take with you to the laboratory the hair and trace recovered from the--excuse me. Strike that. Did you take with you items 160 through 169?

Yes, I did.

And did you also take with you the bag that originally contained Ron Goldman's shirt from the Coroner's office?

The bag itself?

Uh-huh.

No.

Did you--I'm sorry. Let me ask you a different question. You indicated that you recovered debris from the bag that originally contained Ron Goldman's shirt from the Coroner's office and you collected that into a bindle?

Yes.

Did you take that with you as well, that bindle?

Yes.

That was item no. 165?

Yes.

Of the item no. 33 that we've referred to earlier--I'm sorry, you can have a seat.

Item no. 33 that we referred to earlier, that piece of carpet that appeared to you to have a bloody shoeprint, did you take that with you to--

Objection.

Sustained. Rephrase the question, please.

I'm sorry, your Honor.

You indicated earlier that item no. 33 was a piece of carpet on which you observed what appeared to you to be some kind of a bloody imprint?

Yes.

And did you take that piece of carpet with to you Washington D.C.?

No, I did not.

All right. So you had basically all of these analyzed evidence envelopes that were sealed and then you had the knit cap, the blue knit cap in a bag?

Yes. That bag was removed from the box that it was originally packaged in, placed into a manila envelope which I labeled that I removed from that box on that date and it was sealed by me also on that date.

And what did you do with all those items?

All of those items were placed into a paper bag which I then put in my carry-on bag, basically, to take on the plane with me when I flew back to Washington.

And when did you fly back to Washington?

I flew out on August 7th. I stopped by the laboratory on my way to the airport and picked up the evidence. In the meantime, between August 5th and August 7th, it was stored in the serology freezer, and I picked it up, went to the airport, transported it back to Washington. Again it was in my hand carry luggage and I arrived in Washington on August 8th and delivered that evidence to Doug Deedrick at the FBI laboratory.

Personally?

Personally.

Now, when you indicate that you left the--were all of the items put into the brown paper bag and the brown paper--that big brown bag was kept in the serology freezer until the 7th?

Yes.

And was it sealed?

Yes, I had taped over the top of it.

Did you have your initials on that tape?

Yes.

When you returned to pick it up on the way to the airport, did you examine the seal?

Yes.

Was it intact?

Yes.

It had not been broken?

No.

When you got to the FBI and you delivered the brown bag containing all of these envelopes to Mr. Deedrick, what did you do with him?

We inventoried the evidence together and that is when he assigned all of his Q and K numbers and wrote his initials on all the packages, just basically inventoried what was there. And since I had taken the redeye out, I was not the most coherent person that day, so after inventorying the evidence, I went to my hotel and slept.

Okay. So did you actually--but you were present for the inventory procedure?

Yes, I was.

And you observed him to initial and itemize or label each of these items as either a Q number or a K number?

Yes.

And what is the Q number--what does a Q mean?

Q is questioned and K is known, as far as source goes, so you have a questioned source or a known source.

What would be an example of a known source?

Umm, the head hair sample I took from Mr. Simpson would be a known source. Those hairs are known to have come from his head.

And the questioned source would be, an example of that?

An example of a questioned source would be one of these items found out at the crime scene, some of those hairs--let's say the hairs in the knit cap, those would be a questioned item.

The following day did you return to the FBI?

Yes, I did.

And then did--what were you--did Doug ask you to do something?

Yes. He had me assisting him by mounting the known hair standards from each of the victims and Mr. Simpson.

Okay. And what procedure did you follow for the mounting of those hairs? Who did you do first and how did you do it?

I don't believe I really took many or any notes while I mounted them. Let me just do a little check here.

I really don't remember which order I mounted them in.

Okay. Can you explain the procedure used?

Yes. I tried to follow the FBI's mounting procedure, which is just a little different than my own. You are using the same microscope slide and the glass coverslip. That part is the same, permount, that part is the same, but what they do is they will put just a drop of a chemical called xylene on the microscope slide and that just helps you kind of tack down the hairs so they don't slide off of the microscope slide while you are in the mounting process. And umm, they--they prefer to mount several hairs per slide whereas at LAPD I had previously mounted maybe one to five hairs per slide, generally. I would space them out. But the FBI actually mounts several hairs per slide, so I did that, mounting several hairs per slide using the xylene to tack down the hairs and then blotted off the xylene with a piece of blotting paper and then I add the permount, place the coverslip over it and the hairs were mounted.

And so that you followed the procedures outlined to you by Mr. Deedrick?

Yes.

In between the mounting of each hair sample, that is, for example, after you mounted the Defendant's hairs, what, if any, preparations did you make before beginning to mount the next, say, the hairs of Mr. Goldman?

Your Honor, objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. She said she didn't know what order she did it in.

Sustained.

In between the mounting of different people's known hairs, did you do anything?

Umm--well, I only had one person's hair sample out at any given time, and in between those hair samples I changed my gloves. I don't remember the exact paper I had. I believe they have like a bench coat paper there, and I mounted them on that same bench coat paper, but changed my gloves in between samples.

Okay. Now, between August 16th and August 18th were other items requested to be sent to the FBI from LAPD?

Other items were requested. I don't specifically recall which date. It was while I was there, sometime between August 8th and August 19th.

Somewhere between August 8th and 19th?

Yes.

All right. Counsel, may it be stipulated that on August 11th criminalist Ronald Raquel assigned to the hair and trace unit of SID collected exemplars of the carpet fibers from the Defendant's Bronco in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner, which would be LAPD item numbers 226, 227, 228, 230 and 231 and that those items of evidence were properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination? May it be stipulated that on November 21st, 1994, criminalist Raquel also collected the hair exemplar of LAPD criminalist Susan Brockbank, LAPD item number 360, in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner and that the evidence was properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination?

So stipulated.

All right. Thank you, counsel. As you recollect, I instructed you previously that a stipulation is an agreement between the parties as to the facts and you are to assume those facts to be true for the purpose of this trial. Thank you, counsel.

Thank you, your Honor. One more while we are at it. May it be further stipulated that on August 15th, 1994, criminalist Collin Yamauchi collected fabric samples in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner from Nicole Brown Simpson's dress, item no. 86, Ron Goldman's pants, item no. 79, and Ron Goldman's shirt, item no. 81, and that those items of evidence were properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination?

So stipulated.

All right. Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

Thank you, your Honor.

Now, with respect to the item numbers on the board next to you, specifically items 226 to 231, did you receive those from the LAPD while you were still at the FBI?

Umm, they were received by Mr. Deedrick, not by myself.

Were you not present?

I was present, but he is the one that actually received them.

Okay. You saw them there?

Yes.

All right. And are you looking at those items on the chain board, People's 436?

Yes.

Are those in fact the items that were received at the FBI?

You can get down and look if you need to.

226 through 231?

Uh-huh.

Yes.

While you are there, with respect to item no. 79 shown there as Goldman pant fabric sample, item no. 81, Goldman shirt fabric sample, and item no. 86, Nicole dress fabric sample, and the K numbers assigned, that is, K17, 18 and 19, can you tell us if exemplars from each of those three clothing items were received at the FBI while you were there?

Again, they were received by Mr. Deedrick; not by myself.

You saw them there, though?

Yes.

All right. Miss Clark, I think perhaps we ought to take the board, since we have now talked about just everything that is there, because some of the items are very small and you have them mounted low, perhaps we should exhibit the full board down to the other side of the jury box since they haven't been able to see some of the lower items.

Thank you, your Honor.

All right.

All right. Thank you. Miss Clark.

Thank you, your Honor.

And when is it that you left the FBI?

On August 19th.

All right. Moving forward to December 20th of 1994, on that date were you being visited by Mr. Deedrick at the LAPD SID lab?

Let me see.

Yes, I was.

And did you show him some items at that time?

Yes.

What did you show him?

Umm, he--umm,--well, I showed him item numbers 9, which is the glove, 27, the hat, and 37, a glove.

Okay. The item no. 27, is that the cap from the Bronco?

Yes.

So you showed him both gloves and the cap found in the Bronco?

Yes.

And where were they being kept?

They were being stored in the serology freezer still.

Everything still in their original packages as well?

Yes.

Sealed?

Yes.

On October 3rd--I forgot to ask you this. Let me back up for a second. On October 3rd of 1994, do you recall getting a phone call from an employee of the Coroner's office by the name of Steve Dowell?

On October 3rd? Yes, I did.

And did he--based on that phone call did you then visit the Coroner's office on October 4th?

Yes.

Was something pointed out to you by Mr. Dowell?

Yes.

What was pointed out?

He was examining a tissue sample that was in a jar when he noticed a fiber on this tissue sample, so he contacted me and had me come over so that we could photograph it and he could release that item, that fiber to me.

Okay. Tell us what you saw.

Even under the microscope?

Yes.

When you say this piece of tissue, what are you referring to?

And it had been--that piece of tissue had been stored in a jar?

Yes.

Okay. When you examined it on the slide, was that mounted on permount?

No. When Steve removed it from the tissue and placed it on a slide, which I dry mounted, what that means is I just placed a coverslip over the--the fiber and then taped the coverslip down to the slide, rather than using any kind of mounting media.

Why?

Umm, at--well, at that time I wasn't examining any evidence any longer and it was going to be transported to the FBI lab. There was no reason for me to mount it, so I just--that is--it was so small, again, I didn't want to put it in a paper bindle. I thought the best way to preserve it was to place it on a slide and dry mount it, and I actually circled it also on the glass part of the slide, I circled where the fiber was to make it easier for someone else to see in the future.

Was there anything else that was pointed out by Mr. Dowell that you recovered that day?

Yes. Along with the--that single fiber there was what appeared to be an oily gray metallic substance on this tissue and he also removed a portion of that and placed it on a slide and I also dry mounted that material.

And what did you do with those slides?

Those were booked into evidence at the lab and item numbers 332 and 333.

Now, directing your attention to November 17th through 30th of 1994, on that date did you collect hair samples from various lab and police personnel?

Yes, I did.

And prior to collecting those hair samples did you confer with Mr. Deedrick concerning the appropriate manner for the collection of hair samples?

I did confer with him and the manner of collection was the same manner which I had collected Mr. Simpson's hair, combing and pulling hairs from the various areas of the head from each of those people that I collected hair from.

All right. Mr. Escobar, can you raise that up, please. (Brief pause.)

247, can you see that?

Yes.

Thank you.

All right. Have you examined all of the entries on this--I would like to ask that this board be marked as People's 451, your Honor.

People's 451.

Yes, I did. I collected each of those samples, excluding my own, which is over on the right-hand side, item no. 360, and that one item was collected by Mr. Ron Raquel.

Okay. So you collected these in the same manner which you collected the Defendant's hair samples, correct?

Yes.

And on that board is also contained--

Umm, the two additional items or is it two? One additional item, 431 down on the lower right-hand corner.

Yes.

Hair exemplar from Ed McGowan. He was a police officer who shaved his head so we had to wait for his hair to grow out a sufficient length for me to collect a sample, so he was actually collected at a later date and, umm, that was on February 23rd of 1995.

That you collected it?

Yes.

All right. Counsel, may it be stipulated that Miss Brockbank collected the exemplars from the people depicted on the board now marked as People's 451, and the dog's Kato and Chachi, in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner and that said exemplars were properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination?

Yes.

Thank you.

And have you assured yourself that all of the item numbers and all of the information on this board is correct?

Well, no, I haven't read every box and verified them.

All right. When we take our break tonight I'm going to ask that you do so and I will ask that question again tomorrow morning before we conclude.

Right.

That will be the only question, I hope.

Now, did you also collect the exemplars from dogs Kato and Chachi on November 30th, 1994?

I thought we just stipulated to that.

I will stipulate.

I just wanted to get the date in.

All right.

I will stipulate to the dates on the board as well.

November 30th.

Yes.

Stipulated. Thank you.

All right. Did Mr. Deedrick ask you to secure items of clothing and perhaps a hairbrush from the family of Ron Goldman?

Yes, he did. Well, yes.

And why was that?

Umm, he requested that we attempt to find a hairbrush from Ron Goldman to provide an additional exemplar of known hairs from Mr. Goldman. I then went to see Mr. And Mrs. Goldman at their home and examined his personal effects and I was not able to find a hairbrush, but there were some clothing items and some hats that he frequently wore, so I took those items and removed hairs from them and provided those to Mr. Deedrick.

So that was the only method you had to collect additional hair standards since there was no hairbrush, just the clothing?

Yes, ma'am.

Hats and stuff?

Yes.

And what item numbers did those receive?

Let me just check.

Those items were received item numbers 375 through 382 and 411 and 412.

All right. I'm going to direct your attention to People's 436, the item numbers for the hair exemplars from the dog's Chachi and Kato, 365 and 366. Is that information correct?

365 and 366? Yes.

Now, in February--approximately February 17th, 1995, were you required to assist in packaging up all items containing bindles of hair and trace evidence for the purpose of sending them out?

Umm, when was that again?

Approximately February 17th, 1995.

February 17th? Can I have just a moment?

Sure.

Umm, I'm having trouble finding those notes. If you could tell me what I was sending them out for, I might be able to find then easier.

All right. They were being packaged to be sent out for Defense viewing in Albany.

Umm, actually, I was not involved in that at all.

Oh, okay.

That is probably why I can't find the note.

Then let me direct your attention to March the 4th, 1995. On that date were you working at SID in the hair and trace unit?

Yes, I was.

And were there members of the Defense team present to view the evidence concerning hair and trace on that date?

Yes, there were.

Can you tell us who was present?

Umm, let's see. Mr. Blasier, Mr. Neufeld, Mr. Scheck, Henry Lee, Chuck Morton.

Who is Chuck Morton?

He is a gentleman sitting right in the center of the courtroom here, (Indicating).

Do you know him?

Yes, I do.

What does he do?

He is a criminalist. I lost my train of thought now.

I'm sorry. Anybody else present?

Dr. Baden and an associate of his whose name escapes me, Barbara--

Barbara Wolf?

Yes. And Greg Matheson, myself, umm, John Taggert, our photographer, quite a group.

All right.

And it seems like there was another person. That is all I can remember.

That is enough. Now, what items were being examined then?

Umm, can I refer to my notes?

Sure.

Umm, I know the field manual for the crime lab was being examined and, umm, crime scene notes from Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola were being examined. Those I really wouldn't consider as--I mean, they are not evidence items, but they were being examined. The glove, item no. 37, umm, and some bindles that were packaged with that glove; the hat, item no. 38, the knit hat; item numbers 110 through 113.

That is the hair and trace that you took off the gloves and the plaid cap, the knit cap?

Yes. And item no. 221. Those are the only items I made notation of.

All right.

And I was there as an observer.

Uh-huh. How long did all that take, if you know?

Well, I was there from about I think 7:00 A.M. until about 6:00 P.M., 6:00 P.M., a full day.

Was it still going on when you left at 6:00 P.M.?

Yes. The group had dwindled down significantly but there was still some exams going on.

And directing your attention to March the 13th, 1995, did you have occasion to visit with Mr. Morton on that occasion as well?

Yes, I did.

And can you explain to us how that occurred?

Umm, again I--I was asked to transport some evidence to a laboratory in Yorba Linda, Cal Lab.

Your Honor, I'm going to object. May we approach?

Yes, with the court reporter, please.