📄 Motion: production of statistical calculations — Friday, June 23, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUN\23\MOTION-PRODUCTION-OF-STATISTIC.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 102 of 167

Motion: production of statistical calculations

Date: Friday, June 23, 1995 • Utterances: 36
Defense attorney Peter Neufeld sought production of underlying statistical calculation data (intermediate tables and contributor-pair counts) from prosecution DNA expert Dr. Bruce Weir regarding four-contributor blood mixture frequencies from the Bronco. Judge Ito navigated the distinction between data that already existed in raw form (printable) versus data requiring additional computation, ultimately ordering Weir to produce the printable data by Sunday evening.
1 MR. NEUFELD:

Just one matter, your Honor.

2 THE COURT:

Mr. Neufeld.

3 MR. NEUFELD:

Although I expected to receive the statistical statements regarding four-contributor frequencies for the Bronco last night so we could evaluate them prior to commencing cross-examination this morning, I did not. In fact, I just received them a few minutes ago when I walked into Court. There is one significant omission from this report or from these computations which we were given with respect to the three-contributor computations, and that is the underlying table. All that is expressed on this one page is the low number and the high number, as opposed to the spread of numbers reflected in table 30 for 3. I have asked Dr. Weir to provide us with that data. He said it is a--one long page of printout and he will be able to--he is shaking his head no. Maybe we can get some clarification on that.

4 THE COURT:

Mr. Clarke.

5 MR. CLARKE:

First of all, your Honor, Dr. Weir worked on these additional calculations until midnight and also got up before 6:00 a.m. to work on them as well, so needless to say, he has been hard at work and producing them as fast as humanly possible. As to this additional page that Mr. Neufeld seeks, that would require Dr. Weir to actually produce this table and it is not simply printing it out. He would actually have to perform the calculations necessary to produce this table that Mr. Neufeld has described. That is the reality of what it will take. It will take some considerable work. That is where we stand.

6 THE COURT:

All right. What do you have, the range computations similar to the 2 and 3 potential contributors?

7 DR. WEIR:

Yes. Well, the testimony is prepared, yes.

8 MR. NEUFELD:

Judge, to actually do that range he had to prepare the calculations I'm talking about which is reflected in table 30 for three contributors. So we are asking that we be given the same, and especially given the fact that there is a substantial possibility that we will not finish the cross-examination this morning and it does continue until Monday morning, I'm going to want the weekend to evaluate that data.

9 THE COURT:

The problem is, if he hasn't computed the data and if it doesn't exist, then how can I order its production?

10 MR. NEUFELD:

I don't understand how he could not have computed the data because the only way one can arrive at the range of frequencies is to actually calculate the frequencies.

KEY QUOTE
11 THE COURT:

Doctor, how do we come up with that without doing that?

12 DR. WEIR:

I have obviously done the calculations. I have not tabulated them. This is an intermediate step in my program. The program does a lot of calculations and then looks for the smallest and largest. I could compile them. It would take a couple of hours' work to put all this information together in the tabular form and I will not be working tomorrow.

KEY QUOTE
13 THE COURT:

When can you make that available to Mr. Neufeld in its raw form?

14 DR. WEIR:

By about nine o'clock Sunday evening. I would have to work on it on Sunday.

15 THE COURT:

Is it something that you can just download from that particular portion of the program?

16 DR. WEIR:

I can do it. I can rerun the program, and constructing the table is actually almost as much trouble.

KEY QUOTE
17 THE COURT:

I'm not asking you to construct a table; I'm just asking you if the calculation--?

18 DR. WEIR:

I could print those out, yes.

19 THE COURT:

That can be printed out?

20 DR. WEIR:

Yes.

21 THE COURT:

When can we do that?

22 DR. WEIR:

I can do it on Sunday.

23 MR. NEUFELD:

Right, and just save for the calculations, the same way it does in table 30, whether it is Caucasian, Hispanic, African American, whatever. The only other thing I would ask for, your Honor, which he did do for two donors but he did not do for three donors or four donors is he actually calculates the number of--of potential pairs. He did that for his two donor numbers in the report, but he didn't do it for three donors or four donors. And since all of his numbers are predicated on having the correct number of three-donor trios and the correct number of four-donor quads, if you will, we need that as well so that we can confirm or reject his hypothesis. There is no way we can simply look at a number and know if he did it correctly unless we look at the underlying data to see how he arrived at those numbers.

24 THE COURT:

Does that data exist, Mr. Clark?

25 DR. WEIR:

Not presently. I can generate it.

26 MR. CLARKE:

The difficulty is, your Honor, is the Defense is now asking Dr. Weir to perform things.

27 THE COURT:

Do additional work. That is why asked Dr. Weir does that information exist. He says yes, that can be printed out.

28 MR. CLARKE:

Very well.

29 THE COURT:

They are entitled to have that information. I'm not asking him to do any additional work.

30 DR. WEIR:

The second item would require more work.

31 MR. NEUFELD:

When can this all be--

32 DR. WEIR:

On Sunday. I'm not going to work tomorrow. I will start work at noon on Sunday and I will give it to you as soon as I have completed it. I'm quite tired.

KEY QUOTE
33 THE COURT:

As we all are and we are all glad it is Friday. All right.

KEY QUOTE
34 MR. NEUFELD:

Thank you.

35 THE COURT:

Deputy Magnera.

36 MR. CLARKE:

Just for the record, the Court requested that those labels be placed on as to the word "Mix" and I have put those to the right of the "Mixture" column for each of the frequencies.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

Peter Neufeld
I don't understand how he could not have computed the data because the only way one can arrive at the range of frequencies is to actually calculate the frequencies.
Neufeld correctly identifies that the underlying calculations must exist if the summary range was produced — forcing Weir to clarify the distinction between calculated and tabulated data.
Dr. Bruce Weir
I have obviously done the calculations. I have not tabulated them. This is an intermediate step in my program. The program does a lot of calculations and then looks for the smallest and largest.
Key technical clarification revealing that the raw data exists but was not formatted — this distinction determined what the court could order produced.
Dr. Bruce Weir
I can do it. I can rerun the program, and constructing the table is actually almost as much trouble.
Weir signals that even 'simple' printout requires significant work, setting up the timeline dispute.
Dr. Bruce Weir
I'm not going to work tomorrow. I will start work at noon on Sunday and I will give it to you as soon as I have completed it. I'm quite tired.
Humanizing moment — expert witness pushed to exhaustion by last-minute prosecution calculations.
Lance A. Ito
As we all are and we are all glad it is Friday.
Rare moment of levity from Ito acknowledging the grueling pace for everyone in court.

Evidence (3)

Informal
Four-contributor blood mixture frequency calculations for the Bronco
disputed — defense sought underlying data, received only summary range
Informal
Table 30 for three-contributor calculations — referenced as the model for what defense sought for four-contributor data
discussed as precedent for format of requested data
Informal
Two-donor frequency report including potential pair counts
referenced by Neufeld to show Weir had done this step for two donors but not three or four

Notable Exchanges (2)

Peter NeufeldDr. Bruce WeirLance A. Ito
Three-way negotiation over what data exists vs. requires new work — Ito precisely distinguished between printing existing intermediate output and constructing new tables, ordering only the former.
strategic
George ClarkeLance A. Ito
Clarke tried to frame defense requests as demanding additional work from Weir; Ito cut him off, ruling the printable data was producible as-of-right.
firm

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito
As we all are and we are all glad it is Friday.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Dr. Bruce Weir
challenging methodology transparency
Neufeld argued that without the underlying tables and contributor-pair counts, there was no way to verify whether Weir's summary numbers were correctly computed — implying the calculations could not be independently validated.

Witness Demeanor

(He said it is a--one long page of printout and he will be able to--he is shaking his head no.)

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 6523 • 36 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 JUN 23, 1995 📄 Motion: production of statisti
JUN 23, 1995 KRT DvH TD