📄 Direct examination of Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran (afternoon, part 2) — Wednesday, June 14, 1995
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▲ Day 95 of 167

Direct examination of Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran (afternoon, part 2)

Witness: Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
Examiner: Brian Kelberg
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, June 14, 1995 • Utterances: 346
Brian Kelberg continued his methodical direct examination of Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Lakshmanan, walking through the science and limitations of postmortem interval estimation via body temperature (algor mortis), rigor mortis, livor mortis, and vitreous humor potassium levels. In each category, Dr. Lakshmanan concluded that precise time-of-death determination is impossible, with even the most sophisticated tool (Henssge's nomogram) carrying a ±2.8-hour margin of error. The session ended with the awkward start of playing Dr. Golden's autopsy dictation tape — on the wrong side.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, counsel.

3 MR. KELBERG:

Thank you, your Honor. May I continue?

4 THE COURT:

With alacrity.

5 MR. KELBERG:

I will, your Honor.

6 MR. KELBERG:

You have already defined what an axillary is, doctor. "Mouth and skin temperature in the living person, but the absolute values vary from person-to-person and from time to time even in health."

7 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

8 MR. KELBERG:

That was part of what you read, considered and relied upon in part?

9 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

10 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, what do you want to tell us about the factors which may affect the plateau?

11 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Position of the body. If you take a temperature from the skin you are going to have a difference than when you take it from the rectal area.

12 MR. KELBERG:

Keep your voice up.

13 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The difference where you take the measurement, and environmental temperature is if the outside temperature is very cold and there is also wind factor, you are going to cool the body much faster than if it is just in a stationary average temperature conditions. It depends on the clothing, what the person was wearing. Somebody is wearing heavy clothing, they are going to cool slower than a person who is nude. And size of the body, the larger body takes a longer time to cool than the smaller body.

14 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another board in this series as 367-F, I believe.

15 (Peo's 367-F for id = chart)
16 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, have we basically done what is on this board with respect to the graph that we had out earlier?

17 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, we have.

18 MR. KELBERG:

Okay. Does this accurately summarize, if you will, what we have just been describing with that graph?

19 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

20 MR. KELBERG:

And I have another board, your Honor. May this be marked as 367-G?

21 THE COURT:

So marked.

22 (Peo's 367-G for id = chart)
23 MR. KELBERG:

And doctor, again, sub-part 3(D)1, have we covered this area?

24 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, we have. That was the third graph I drew--

25 MR. KELBERG:

Imaginary graph?

26 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

27 MR. KELBERG:

With the higher temperature?

28 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

29 MR. KELBERG:

Okay. Now, dropping down to sub-part 3(E), what is this information intended to convey?

30 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Some of the factors I mentioned in the first photograph which affect the plateau phase also affect the temperature loss. One of them is the weight and the surface weight ratio. Children cool faster than adults. The posture of the body, if you are in a fetal position, you cool slower than a person who is in a spread-eagle type of position. Like somebody whose arms are spread out and legs spread out would cool--would cool faster than a person who is in a fetal position.

31 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, could you keep your voice up.

32 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

In a fetal position, I said.

33 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, do you remember the photograph showing the position of Nicole Brown Simpson's body at the time it was found on the sidewalk--

34 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

35 MR. KELBERG:

--the walkway, I should say, of the Bundy location?

36 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

37 MR. KELBERG:

How would you describe that position?

38 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

She was on her left side with the hips flexed a little bit and her knees flexed. She was, I would say--not in a semi--slightly bent position than what is meant by somebody lying just flat on their back.

39 MR. KELBERG:

And does that position then have an affect, as you have described this area, on how the rate of cooling will occur?

40 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

To a certain extent, yes. But it is not as if she was lying--she was not in a fetal position, per say, but she also had just a thin dress and panty on and that will also have an affect.

41 MR. KELBERG:

Incidentally, doctor, is there any scientific formula that tells you, if you have this specific position for the body, then the cooling is affected in the following manner, versus another specific position, or are these all just relative terms that can impact the ultimate determination?

42 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

They are just relative terms. There is no scientific calculation for this. Then the lack of clothing or presence of clothing, what type of clothing, all will have an affect on the cooling. Obesity, which is--is the--this would have an affect and obese people cool slower. Emaciation is a term used for people who are malnourished and who are very thin, they could cool faster. Edema is water accumulation in the body, either from disease or--and that would have a factor in the rate of cooling. And environment temperature is whether the outside temperature is freezing temperature or warm temperature. Suppose the body is found in a very hot summer type environment, the body will not cool as quickly as it normally does in an environment where the temperature is lower, because after all, the cooling depends on the difference between the body temperature and the outside temperature.

43 MR. KELBERG:

Incidentally, doctor--I'm sorry, are you--

44 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yeah.

45 MR. KELBERG:

I was going to ask you, doctor, are you able to determine, under circumstances where a body may have been--a person may have been killed at a particular time but the body is not found for record, let's say, two hours, are you able to determine whether there has been a change in temperature so that even if you take a temperature reading of the environment, the ambient temperature at the time the body is found, it may not reflect accurately what the environment temperature has been during that two-hour period?

46 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct, because you can have a temperature drop of five degrees in those two hours, and when you take the temperature, the environmental temperature could be 70 degrees but actually at the time of death the environmental temperature could be 80 and that will make a difference, too.

47 MR. KELBERG:

All right. What else, doctor?

48 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Of course I've already discussed wind factor and also hypothermia is the body temperature being lower than normal, and that would be like somebody's temperature being 94.5 or 95 degrees Fahrenheit, and so if the lower body temperature, you had a lower body temperature to start with, that will also affect the rate of cooling.

49 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is there any way, again hypothetically, a person is killed at a particular time, two hours later the body is found, is there any way to determine what the wind was, whether there was wind, what the velocity of the wind was, the direction of the wind during that entire two-hour period?

50 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No way to find out, but if it is in an urban area like Los Angeles, you could call the meteorological department and get some idea about the environmental conditions, but it may not necessarily reflect the environment conditions at the place of death. They would give you the environmental conditions for the general area.

51 MR. KELBERG:

For example, doctor, in your own experience as a forensic pathologist have you found that a location where a body is going to be investigated by someone like Ms. Ratcliffe, some areas are windier, draftier than other areas, even though they are basically located very close to each other?

52 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct.

53 MR. KELBERG:

And does that also affect the preciseness with which one can estimate time of death?

54 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

55 MR. KELBERG:

Anything else on this chart, doctor?

56 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

57 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, while I'm going to change charts, I do have a series of certified documents from the U.S. Department of Commerce dealing with weather observations from Santa Monica, California, and some other locations that are not relevant to this case, but they included it all in one package. They are for the date of June 12, 1994, and June 13th, 1994. May this collectively be marked as People's exhibit 367-H, H as in Henry, and I have shown counsel what these are?

58 MR. SHAPIRO:

Yes.

59 THE COURT:

People's 367-H.

60 MR. SHAPIRO:

We have no objection.

61 THE COURT:

All right.

62 (Peo's 367-H for id = weather records)
63 THE COURT:

This has the Santa Monica airport reading?

64 MR. KELBERG:

Yes, your Honor.

65 (Brief pause.)
66 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, let me put up another board that I would ask, your Honor, to be marked as 367-I, "Algor mortis continued." And for reference, this starts with "F. Henssge's nomogram."

67 (Peo's 367-I for id = chart)
68 MR. KELBERG:

And while I am marking things, your Honor, I also have two other charts; one bears a temperature time of death relating nomogram for ambient temperatures up to 23 degrees centigrade. May that be marked as 367-J?

69 THE COURT:

Yes.

70 (Peo's 367-J for id = chart)
71 MR. KELBERG:

And a similar looking document--

72 MR. SHAPIRO:

Your Honor, I'm sorry, may we interpose an objection for the underlining on the chart?

73 THE COURT:

The underlining on the chart.

74 MR. KELBERG:

I think this was part of what we had discussed earlier, your Honor.

75 THE COURT:

Correct. It is noted and it is overruled.

76 MR. SHAPIRO:

Thank you.

77 MR. KELBERG:

And another chart, your Honor, is a similar-looking chart except the title is "Temperature time of death relating nomogram for ambient temperature above 23 degrees centigrade."

78 THE COURT:

All right.

79 MR. KELBERG:

As K, I believe.

80 THE COURT:

K.

81 (Peo's 367-K for id = chart)
82 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, what is Henssge's nomogram? What is that all about?

83 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Basically Henssge developed this chart using mathematical calculations. Just going to briefly discuss it. Developed this chart based on mathematical calculations taking into consideration variability such as the environmental factors, the--also the body weight, clothing, where the body is found, et cetera, and developed a nomogram which pathologists could use if rectal temperatures are obtained. And using the rectal temperature you obtained at a particular time, and also of course the other variables which we discussed, some factoring in has taken place when this nomogram has developed, what it does is it gives you a graph which pathologists could use to get an estimated range.

And even using this, he has developed two graphs. One is for one below 23 degrees centigrade for which he has had experience, but for the graph which he used for the temperature above 23 degrees centigrade, which was discussed earlier, he used the data from some studies done in Sri Lanka by Desaram, D-E-S-A-R-A-M, wherein the ambient temperature is much higher in Sri Lanka than where Henssge did his studies. But what this graph does is if you have a particular temperature of a person, if you know the weight, if you know their--what other--whether they are wearing clothing, what type of clothing, et cetera, using the graph, you will be able to give an estimated range. If you also know the ambient temperature, the average ambient temperature--and he found that even using the graph with all the data, he found that the 95 percent conference level had a variation of three hours plus or minus of the estimate you give for a particular weight, so this graph you can use for different weights. And you have two graphs; one for where the temperature is above 23 and one below 23. Still the minimum--the minimum variation when you estimate was up to three hours.

84 MR. KELBERG:

And according to--

85 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

2.8 hours, which is three.

86 MR. KELBERG:

All right. And "Plus or minus" means what, doctor?

87 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Let's say you estimate it is from the graph, you get a number of 14 hours and you are to add plus or minus 2.8 hours to that 14 hours. Let me put it in perspective. Let's say that the rectal temperature, which this graph is mainly meant for, not for liver temperature, the rectal temperature is a number, let's say, 85 or 86. Then using the graph you find that the time interval since death is ten hours, let's assume, but still the range is plus or minus 2.8 hours, and let's assume that you took the rectal temperature at two o'clock in the afternoon. By calculation you know it is ten hours since the time you took the rectal temperature, plus or minus 2.8 hours, which would put it at 2:00 A.M. that morning, plus or minus 2.8 hours, which would really be an estimated time of death between 11:20 the previous evening all the way to 4:40 the next morning, if you use this formula.

88 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, just so we will have both identified, the first one that I marked as I, I believe, 367-I, the one up to 23 degrees centigrade, 23 degrees centigrade, doctor, have you computed that into Fahrenheit temperature?

89 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I can. I have not done it at this time, but I can convert it.

90 MR. KELBERG:

All right. If I ask you to assume, and I could ask the Court to take judicial notice, I believe, that it is approximately 74 degrees Fahrenheit, 73 point--Mr. Lynch with his calculator is rapidly printing out the information.

91 MR. LYNCH:

73.4.

92 MR. KELBERG:

73.4. Could I ask the Court to take judicial notice of that?

93 MR. SHAPIRO:

We will stipulate to that.

94 THE COURT:

Yes.

95 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Doctor, if 73.4 is 23 degrees centigrade and I want you to assume, based on Ms. Ratcliffe's ambient temperature reading at ten o'clock, 10:30, actually 10:40 in the morning, that the temperature at the Bundy location was 70 degrees, and further, I want you to assume, if I can find my paperwork again, from our exhibit from the weather bureau, that the recorded temperature, the last recorded temperature they have for June 12th, actually into the morning hours of June 13th, is 63 degrees, and the first recorded temperature they have following that for June the 13th at 1:46 in the afternoon is 64 degrees, doctor, given that hypothetical set of circumstances, would this be the nomogram to use, that is, the ambient temperature is below 73.4 during the entire period?

96 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

97 MR. KELBERG:

And doctor, again, what is the narrowest range that this nomogram provides using temperature as a basis for estimating time of death?

98 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

2.8 hours, plus or minus.

99 MR. KELBERG:

And if you were out with Officer Riske at 12:13 in the morning and you took a rectal temperature and employed Dr. Henssge's nomogram, what is the narrowest range that you could give based upon this formulation?

100 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Plus or minus 2.8 hours.

101 MR. KELBERG:

And doctor, to your understanding is this the most sophisticated mathematical approach to an attempt to take into account all of the various factors that you have been talking about in estimating time of death based upon temperature?

102 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

103 MR. KELBERG:

And just I think you've identified it, but just so we will have it for the record, the other nomogram is for temperatures above 23 degrees; is that correct?

104 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

105 MR. KELBERG:

And under that circumstance, doctor, what is the narrowest range that is provided for a temperature determination for range of death, time of death?

106 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The same, plus or minus 2.8 hours.

107 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, on the board that was up before we went to the nomograms, there is a quotation from Dr. Knight's book that he edited, Simpson's 10th edition?

108 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

109 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, again is that something that you've read, considered and in part relied upon?

110 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

111 MR. KELBERG:

Do you agree with that, doctor?

112 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I do.

113 MR. KELBERG:

Do you agree that it is impossible to back calculate with any accuracy to the time of death taking into account the many variables using temperature estimations?

114 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

115 MR. KELBERG:

Do you also agree that temperature estimations provide the best means of estimating the postmortem interval?

116 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

To give an estimated range, yes.

117 MR. KELBERG:

And do you also agree that both doctors, such as yourself, and the police, must be aware of the large errors involved, especially when using such estimates for important forensic purposes, such as breaking the alibi of a suspect in a criminal death?

118 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, improper question.

119 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

120 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, have you relied in part on that observation in formulating range rather than a specific period for the time of death of these two individuals?

121 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, asked and answered.

122 THE COURT:

Overruled.

123 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

124 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further, doctor, on temperature?

125 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

126 (Brief pause.)
127 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another board. May this be marked as 368-A. Entitled "Rigor mortis body stiffening."

128 THE COURT:

Yes.

129 (Peo's 368-A for id = chart)
130 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, I think earlier today you told us a bit about what rigor mortis is; is that correct?

131 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

132 MR. KELBERG:

And have you reviewed various literature, as well as your own experience, in forming opinions, if you have any, on how long it takes for that particular observation to be seen?

133 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. The--if you--if I use all the information I have gained from the literature and my own experience, normally rigor mortis usually develops in all the muscles at the same time, but you best perceive it in the facial muscles and usually you start developing rigor in about three to four hours after death. It starts to be fully developed in about nine to--nine to twelve hours, and it persists anywhere from 24 to 36 hours until it passes away when decomposition sets in. This is just an average based on all the review of the differences in the literature as to when it starts, how long it lasts and when it disappears. And rigor mortis itself is due to the stiffening of the muscles due to enzymatic changes in the muscle due to a decrease in certain enzymes called ATP. What happens is the muscle proteins, which are mainly actin and myosin, bind to form a gel-like binding which results in the rigidity, so there is a variability described in different books. There is a legend for this--each box where this range is given from.

134 MR. KELBERG:

Let me get that legend, doctor, so we can identify your sources. Your Honor, I have another board called "Rigor mortis continued" and Mr. Lynch is going to set up an easel. May this be marked as 368-B.

135 THE COURT:

368-B.

136 (Peo's 368-B for id = chart)
137 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The legend is self-explanatory. It refers to--a corresponds to the book, Claus Henssge's book, and G corresponds to Warner Spitz' book. We reviewed this literature just to show that each book gives a different time range for starting of the--or rather when rigor mortis is detectable. They give a range for when the rigor mortis becomes complete and you have one other board I think which shows--

138 MR. KELBERG:

I'm going to get to that in a moment, but I wanted to ask a few questions before we move to the next board. First of all, doctor, is there a difference between physiologically the body starting this process that is called rigor mortis and the time when it can be detected by someone such as a Claudine Ratcliffe?

139 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Umm--

140 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, calls for speculation.

141 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

142 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, as a forensic pathologist do you have an opinion as to when the body starts the process that is described as rigor mortis?

143 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yeah. The body starts the process after death, but you start detecting it when this enzyme I told you, ATP, goes down to 85 percent of the normal, and it is fully detected when it goes to 15 percent normal, but of course this is research material, so even though it starts soon after death, you can detect it by feeling the muscles. Initially I told you the muscles are relaxed. You start feeling to be stiff. That is, you will find that if your arm is in a flexed position, if you try to extend it, you will see that there will be resistance to extend the arm, but whereas if you examine the body soon after death, you will be able to move the arm easily and that is the relaxed flaccid situation. So detectability is when you can perceive the process, whereas development of the process starts after death.

144 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, you testified that it starts in all muscles of the body, is that accurate?

145 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, both voluntary and involuntary muscles of the body.

146 MR. KELBERG:

However, is it detectable in certain kind of muscles before it is detectable in other kind of muscles?

147 MR. SHAPIRO:

Asked and answered.

148 THE COURT:

Overruled.

149 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You can detect it easier in the jaw muscles and facial muscles earlier than the other muscles, and then you can see it in the limb muscles next.

150 MR. KELBERG:

Limb?

151 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Limb means the upper extremities and lower extremities.

152 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, where is that the case that you can first see it in the jaw and other muscles before--

153 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Because these are smaller muscles and you can see the jaws--lockjaw, and it is easier, and the larger muscles take time--more time to detect.

154 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, what significance, if any, does it have to you, from this review of the literature, that there is a range provided that differs from literature to literature on the ability of a forensic pathologist to use rigor mortis to precisely determine the time of death?

155 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The problem with this method is one, the--the range in the development, and no. 2, once it is developed--let's assume it is fully developed when you see the person. You can't tell--you can say that probably developed in twelve hours, but you can't tell until it passes away what time frame you are seeing the body in. For example, somebody dies at--let's assume that it develops fully in twelve hours and somebody dies at 1:00 A.M. in the morning and you see the body at 2:00 P.M. that afternoon and rigor is fully developed, and let's assume that you don't see him at 1:00 P.M. but you see him at 8:00 P.M. and you just see rigor mortis, the rigor mortis which is fully developed will be fully developed at 8:00 P.M. and have the same appearance as when it was fully developed at 8:00 P.M. and you won't be able to tell what time it really was. All you can see that at 8:00 people else dead at least more than twelve hours but you can't tell exactly when he died.

156 MR. KELBERG:

Does the body, at some point after death, return to a condition which for all intents and purposes would appear to be the identical condition exactly at the time of death concerning this muscle reaction?

157 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. When the body starts decomposing and deteriorating, this stiffness will start passing away because of enzyme changes and putrefaction and again it will start getting flaccid, but you can tell the difference from a forensic pathology, because you will have early signs of decomposition of the body when that happens because you will have greenish discoloration. The other factor of course is--which is a very rough parameter is whether the body is warm and cold. If you have a warm body which is stiff, you know, that warm body which is flaccid, you know it is earlier part, from a cold body which is decomposing, and early decomposition and flaccid, you can tell the difference very easily.

158 MR. KELBERG:

Could you also basically stay with the body for some period of time to see whether or not the rigor is increasing in intensity or getting less in intensity?

159 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It is difficult to estimate that also.

160 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, I think you were talking about the rigor becomes complete meaning what, fully fixed? Is that a term that is used?

161 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Fully fixed, and when you try and extend a flexed arm, you will have a lot of resistance in doing it and in breaking the rigor.

162 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, recalling exhibits 298-A and B, those form 1 documents completed by Ms. Ratcliffe, do they reflect her assessment of the degree of rigor at roughly 10:40 and 10:50 in the morning on June 13th with respect to the two individuals?

163 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

She indicated that both the bodies were in full--full rigor. That means the rigor was fully established when she saw the bodies.

164 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, going back to this hypothetical of the coincidence that you would be with Officer Riske at 12:13 in the morning, what would be the circumstance that you would find which would indicate the least amount of time having past since time of death to 12:13 as it pertains to rigor mortis?

165 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

If there is no rigor present and the body is still warm, it would indicate that the death occurred probably within four hours before Officer Riske saw the body. But if he saw some stiffness developing, then you are into a time range between three to nine hours when it is developing, so you won't be able to pinpoint a particular time. You can only give a possible range.

166 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, is the combination of rigor, the absence of rigor, if hypothetically you had been with Officer Riske at 12:13, you saw no evidence of rigor and you got a core temperature reading of 98.6, the assumed normal temperature, would that permit you to form an opinion as to range for time of death of these two human beings which would be narrower than the 2.8 hours plus or minus that Dr. Henssge's nomogram provides for temperature alone?

167 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No. I won't be able to narrow it down further.

168 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another board in the rigor series. May this be marked as 368-C, your Honor?

169 THE COURT:

Yes.

170 (Peo's 368-C for id = chart)
171 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, you indicated that the rigor remains for some period of time and then starts to fade away, if you will?

172 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

173 MR. KELBERG:

Is that what item 4 is intended to refer to?

174 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. A, B, C, D shows the literature from where this data was obtained and you can see that there is a range when rigor--how long the rigor persists and when it disappears. For example, if you take Henssge's book, it says the persistence is anywhere from 24 to 96, mean of 57, and for disappearance is anywhere from 24 to 192, mean of 76, and you can see the variation between that and Spitz' book where it says the persistence is between 12 to 24 hours and then it passes from 24 to 36 when it starts disappearing. And in my experience this seems to be more--more what happens, but I have not seen--this can also happen, depending on what temperature the body is found in.

175 MR. KELBERG:

For the record, Dr. Lakshmanan pointed to first the item G, which is the Spitz reference as the one more consistent with his experience and then to the Henssge item a as the one that can also happen.

176 THE COURT:

Thank you.

177 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, what significance, if any, is it to you that again there is this discrepancy between the various literature you've reviewed on these issues of persistence and disappearance?

178 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Well, it shows the variable factors which have been discussed and your variability in the development, persistence and disappearance--disappearance of the process. And there are factors affecting rigor itself which would play a role in this process and in the development process.

179 MR. KELBERG:

And doctor, what are those factors and how do they impact?

180 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

If somebody has had strenuous physical activity before death, they would develop rigor, much faster than a person who has had not much activity. If it is a hotter temperature, rigor develops earlier. If it is a colder temperature, it develops slower. Physical condition of the decedent, depending on the muscular development of the decedent, there is a difference in the development and disappearance of the rigor. And cause of death, if it is electrocution, rigor develops earlier. Also poisonings, like strychnine, you can develop rigor earlier, so there are a lot of variables.

181 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, are there any scientific charts or formulas which attempt to quantify in specific terms of hours or minutes how each of these variable factors should be calculated into the determination of the rigor impact on the period since death determination?

182 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

There are no scientific calculations.

183 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, the last entry on that board, is that again one of the materials that you have read, considered and in part relied upon?

184 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

185 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, in your opinion is rigor mortis the most uncertain and unreliable of these factors that you use medically to determine a range for time of death?

186 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That's correct.

187 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another board.

188 MR. KELBERG:

Is there anything further, doctor, you wish to add about rigor mortis?

189 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

190 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have a board entitled "Livor mortis, hypostasis, blood settling." May this be marked as 369-A?

191 THE COURT:

369-A.

192 (Peo's 369-A for id = chart)
193 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, what is this board all about?

194 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This discusses the definition of livor mortis which I have discussed already.

195 MR. KELBERG:

Before you run too quickly to item 2, there are three different terms starting that item 1; livor mortis, lividity and the term hypostasis. Is there any difference, and if so, what is the difference between those three terms?

196 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

They are used synonymously.

197 MR. KELBERG:

If you continue then.

198 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

I have already defined is basically draining of the blood in the dependent part of the body after circulation has ceased and causing discolorations in the parts of the body which are not under pressure. And this again is a review of onset and when it is fully perceived from the literature and you can see that this is a range that you can be perceived anywhere from thirty minutes to four hours when it starts to be seen, and the average seems to be about twelve hours when it is maximum in development. One of the things we do in our office is when you have an area of discoloration, you try and give pressure to that area. If the discoloration blanches, it would indicate that it is in a phase between onset and maximum. Because once you don't get blanching, it would indicate that some of the discoloration has become permanent, due to either leaching of the blood or breakdown of the blood cells leaving a discoloration. That is one theory. The other theory is that the blood gets thicker in the area of where the dependent pooling has taken place which results in a more permanent discoloration, so the usefulness of this is if the body position is turned after death by a perpetrator, then the--you could have a new position in which the discoloration will develop, depending what part of the body was the dependent part.

199 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, could you use me as an example and just basically indicate how livor mortis or hypostasis can be of benefit in assessing this issue of movement of the body between time of death and time the body is found?

200 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Okay. If Mr. Kelberg was on his back and assume he is no more--

201 MR. KELBERG:

All right. I'm sure there are many who would like that to be the case.

KEY QUOTE
202 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

--and he has been lying on his back for more than twelve hours, by this definition you get discoloration on his back because he is lying on his back. But let's say that Mr. Kelberg didn't die a natural death, but was--something else happened to him and the perpetrator comes back after a day and Mr. Kelberg has not yet been discovered, but then decides to move his body to a different position, and let's say he has been now placed face down instead of his back. The livor which develops in the back will still remain because it has already become fixed, and you may or may not get new livor developing on the front because, as you know, there could be still some blood left, liquid, which could pool on the front also, but the livor which has become permanent in the back will be there, which would give a pathologist, if a change of position has taken place, some indication that some body movement or change in body position has taken place several hours after the livor became permanent.

203 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, as an alternative what happens if I start out on my back at the time I've been killed and somebody comes and decides to turn me over onto my stomach during the period between the time of onset and before the time the livor becomes maximum or fixed as you've described it?

204 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Then you will get it in the new position in which you were placed and you may or may not have any livor on the previous position you were in, because the livor is not permanent.

205 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, I--let me ask you, first of all: What significance, if any, does it have to you, from your review of the literature and your own experience--let me ask preliminarily, in your own experience is there variability in the period for the onset of livor mortis?

206 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes. In my experience you usually start developing within a few hours, three to four hours, but it is usually fully developed in ten to twelve hours, but it is one of the least reliable among all the three parameters we have discussed so far in estimating time of death.

207 MR. KELBERG:

What is the significance, if any, from the variability between the literature sources that you've reviewed on the preciseness within--with which one may estimate a range for time of death based on livor?

208 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The problem is it is not reliable because it can persist until the body starts decomposing and you have the same problems as you have with rigor and little more--less defined process than rigor, because you can start developing it at four hours and you will have a difficult time giving an estimated range just purely based on livor mortis, and especially if any change in body position has taken place.

209 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, what does item 3 on this board refer to?

210 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The--this refers to a condition which one should be aware of that if you have blood loss or the person is anemic from natural disease process, they naturally will not develop the same intensity of livor mortis as a normal person would.

211 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, would you describe the condition of Nicole Brown Simpson as a case involving extensive blood loss?

212 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

There was significant blood loss, yes.

213 MR. KELBERG:

Would you describe a case such as Mr. Goldman's as one involving extensive blood loss?

214 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

215 MR. KELBERG:

In those two cases what would be the affect of that blood loss on the ability of yourself, for example, had you been there at 12:13 with Officer Riske, to detect onset of livor mortis even if the body had been in that position for several hours or more?

216 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, calls for speculation.

217 THE COURT:

Overruled.

218 MR. KELBERG:

You may answer the question.

219 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Well, they did have livor when we saw the body at 10:00, but at 12:15 it is a difficult situation. You may or may not have seen any rigor at all.

220 MR. KELBERG:

And doctor, if you saw--would it be accurate to say that if you detected no livor, that using that factor alone, that would be the condition showing the least amount of time having past from the time of death?

221 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That would be partly correct, because if the significant blood loss had played a major role in that livor developing, that conclusion may not be totally correct.

222 MR. KELBERG:

I want to get to that aspect as a follow-up, but I want to start just in the abstract sense, forgetting the cause of death for these two human beings for just a moment and just assuming that they are dead, would it be an accurate statement to say that a condition in which there is no livor mortis detected on the body at 12:13 would be the condition which would reflect the passage of the least amount of time since death, using that factor alone?

223 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct.

224 MR. KELBERG:

And then, doctor, can you differentiate the absence of livor as being due to simply not enough time having past in the usual situation from livor which would have developed except for the extensive blood loss sustained by each of these human beings?

225 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You won't be able to tell the difference.

KEY QUOTE
226 MR. KELBERG:

And how, if at all, does that impact on your ability to provide preciseness to the time of death based upon this factor?

227 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Again, it brings up the primary issue I brought up earlier during this discussion. You cannot be precise.

228 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, in your opinion, hypothetically again, if you had been with Officer Riske at 12:13 and you saw no livor mortis, you saw no rigor mortis and you detected a body temperature, core body temperature of 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit, would you be able to provide a more precise range for the time of death than what Dr. Henssge's nomogram of plus or minus 2.8 hours indicates?

229 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, calls for speculation.

230 THE COURT:

Overruled.

231 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

232 MR. KELBERG:

I have another board, your Honor, "Livor mortis, hypostasis"--

233 THE COURT:

If I hear another reaction from the audience, there are some people who are going to be leaving the audience. Proceed.

234 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry. Your Honor, I have another board "Livor mortis" I would ask to be marked as 369-B, as in boy.

235 THE COURT:

Quickly.

236 (Peo's 369-B for id = chart)
237 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, again is the information on this board information from the medical literature which you have reviewed, considered and relied at least in part on in forming an opinion regarding the use of livor for a range of death determination?

238 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

239 MR. KELBERG:

Is it your opinion that the use of livor mortis or hypostasis in estimating the time of death is of little evidential use?

240 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

241 MR. KELBERG:

Is it your opinion that as an index of time since death that livor is even more unreliable than rigor?

242 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

243 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, just for the record, exhibit 298-A and b had a determination made by Claudine Ratcliffe as to a degree of livor observed; is that correct?

244 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

245 MR. KELBERG:

And what was the recordation by her with respect to each of these two human beings?

246 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, hearsay.

247 THE COURT:

Overruled.

248 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

She said the livor was fixed.

249 MR. KELBERG:

Which would indicate to you what?

250 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Fully developed.

251 MR. KELBERG:

And in terms of your experience indicating an approximate range of how long before time of death?

252 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

--she--

253 MR. KELBERG:

From time to death, I'm sorry?

254 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

It usually develops in ten to twelve hours.

255 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further on livor mortis?

256 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

257 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another board entitled "Vitreous humor potassium level." May that be marked as People's exhibit 370?

258 THE COURT:

370.

259 MR. KELBERG:

And I believe that 370-A will be required.

260 THE COURT:

Yes.

261 (Peo's 370-A for id = chart)
262 THE COURT:

Was such a test done in this case?

263 MR. KELBERG:

No, it wasn't.

264 THE COURT:

Let's be quick about this.

265 MR. KELBERG:

It will be very quick, your Honor.

266 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, you've identified earlier what a vitreous humor potassium level is?

267 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

268 MR. KELBERG:

Where is that obtained?

269 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, asked and answered.

270 THE COURT:

Sustained.

271 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, does your office on a routine basis take vitreous humor samples?

272 MR. SHAPIRO:

Objection, irrelevant.

273 THE COURT:

Overruled.

274 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

We take it only on cases where the suspected or metabolic cause of death is diabetes keto acidosis or diabetes mellitus and we also obtained vitreous humor when we want to study electrolytes for dehydration, but we don't collect it for estimating postmortem interval and estimating a potassium level for that purpose.

275 MR. KELBERG:

Why not?

276 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Because one, this test is not very useful when you live in an environment where the environmental temperatures are higher, because it has been shown in the literature that you have a higher potassium level, which is the environmental temperature is higher after death, and the--the results you get have wide range when you calculate using some formulas which are available to calculate the time interval since death using the potassium level, so it is not very reliable.

277 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, what is the temperature level which is usually considered a level below which the potassium level from the vitreous humor may be of some benefit?

278 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

50 degrees Fahrenheit usually in more temperate climates.

279 MR. KELBERG:

In fact, was this test developed by a forensic pathologist in Minneapolis, Minnesota, using cases from the winter climate?

280 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

281 MR. KELBERG:

Does this board accurately reflect factors that affect the reliability of potassium levels in vitreous humor?

282 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

283 MR. KELBERG:

And your Honor, just briefly, I have one more board in the vitreous area as 370-B, as in boy.

284 THE COURT:

Yes.

285 (Peo's 370-B for id = chart)
286 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, your attention to 5-A and B, are those two different formulas that are used to calculate postmortem interval from potassium levels?

287 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

288 MR. KELBERG:

And if you had a reading of potassium and you used the two formulas, would you end up with a different result?

289 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, you would.

290 MR. KELBERG:

Does that impact on the reliability of this technique for estimating time of death?

291 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, it does, and you can see that there is a wide range which you get and also it has an impact on when you take the sample in relationship to when the death occurred, because if you have a longer postmortem interval, the range of estimate is wider, compared to if the time of death--time of death was--if the potassium was taken closer to the time of death.

292 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, just briefly, if you could explain if you took a sample of vitreous humor in a case where in fact the person had died within a 24-hour period of the sample being taken, what is the range that one must employ to accurately use this test to determine a period for time of death?

293 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

You have a range between plus or minus six hours to plus or minus twelve hours, and if it is over 24 hours, I mean--up to a hundred hours postmortem, you will have a range of 9.5 hours plus or minus 40 hours.

294 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, the last information on that board, is that part of the material you read, considered and at least to a degree relied upon in forming a policy in your office regarding whether or not vitreous humor potassium samples will be taken?

295 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

This material is a new material. The policy in the office has been there for a long time. We don't do vitreous humor potassium levels.

296 MR. KELBERG:

I'm sorry, the very bottom quotation, is that part of the material you reviewed?

297 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

298 MR. KELBERG:

And is in fact that information consistent with your understanding of this test's reliability?

299 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

300 MR. KELBERG:

And that is a basis for why your office routinely does not take vitreous humor potassium samples?

301 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

That is correct and this--this edition is a newer edition and it only reinforces our preexisting policies of not doing vitreous potassium to estimate time of death.

302 MR. KELBERG:

Anything further on vitreous humor potassium?

303 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

No.

304 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have another board entitled "Gastric stomach contents." May this be marked as 371-A?

305 THE COURT:

371-A.

306 (Peo's 371-A for id = chart)
307 MR. KELBERG:

Doctor, item no. 1 asks the question or poses the issue of what do you look for at autopsy concerning stomach contents?

308 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

We look at what the contents are, the volume, and if there are any medications, they would look for any medications, and basically that is what is done in our office. And you record the information you have obtained from these observations.

309 MR. KELBERG:

We saw with your earlier testimony, and if I could have just a moment, your Honor, to pull out two from the previous exhibits--

310 (Brief pause.)
311 MR. KELBERG:

I am just searching for the autopsy protocol for Nicole Brown Simpson. I believe I have it, and--I do. This is exhibit 349, the blow-up of the forms, I believe, 15 and 16. I will verify that. Yes.

312 MR. KELBERG:

And doctor, you testified as to Dr. Golden's handwritten entry on that form 16 regarding the stomach contents of Nicole Brown Simpson; is that correct?

313 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

314 MR. KELBERG:

Is that the kind of thing you would expect the medical examiner to do as part of an autopsy in this case?

315 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

316 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor you also--let me just throw up the protocol which is board 0B of 349, and flip first to page 10 just to show we are going to be dealing with the gastrointestinal system and then one more page regarding the protocol description of the stomach contents. Do you recall that, doctor?

317 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes, I do.

318 MR. KELBERG:

Now, doctor, in your office you have I think testified that the usual practice is for the medical examiner to dictate this autopsy protocol which is subsequently transcribed; is that correct?

319 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

Yes.

320 MR. KELBERG:

And in fact did you provide Dr. Golden's original dictation tapes for these two autopsy protocols to us?

321 DR. LAKSHMANAN:

The copies of those tapes, yes.

322 MR. KELBERG:

Your Honor, I have a tape. May this be marked as exhibit 370-B?

323 THE COURT:

This is a transcription of the protocol?

324 MR. KELBERG:

It is the actual--

325 THE COURT:

Dictation?

326 MR. KELBERG:

Right.

327 THE COURT:

Let's append it to the protocol itself.

328 MR. KELBERG:

All right. Then the actual paper--you want it appended to the 8-and-a-half-by-11 page exhibit?

329 THE COURT:

Yes.

330 MR. KELBERG:

Which is going to be exhibit 34--

331 THE COURT:

We will figure that out.

332 MR. KELBERG:

Okay.

333 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Shapiro, have you had access to this and you have heard it?

334 MR. SHAPIRO:

Yes.

335 THE COURT:

All right.

336 (Peo's 344-A(1) for id = cassette tape)
337 MR. KELBERG:

And had Fairtlough I believe has the mechanism set up. Just before he plays it--

338 THE COURT:

We are cued to the right spot?

339 MR. KELBERG:

Mr. Lynch assures me of this.

340 THE COURT:

All right.

341 MR. KELBERG:

The pressure is on Mr. Lynch.

342 THE COURT:

Miss Fitzpatrick, do we have audio available?

343 (nods head up and down.)
344 MR. KELBERG:

Before it is played, doctor, I want you to listen and listen to whether or not there is a difference between what Dr. Golden dictates and what the actual protocol, the typed protocol in this paragraph says.

345 (At 2:42 P.M., People's exhibit 344-A(1), an audiotape, was played.)
346 MR. KELBERG:

May we stop, your Honor. Mr. Fairtlough--I think Mr. Fairtlough turned the tape over and is playing the wrong side.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
You cannot be precise.
The doctor's recurring conclusion across temperature, rigor, and livor testimony — a deliberate prosecution strategy to preemptively neutralize defense attacks on time-of-death testimony.
Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
The minimum variation when you estimate was up to three hours. 2.8 hours, which is three.
Establishes that the most sophisticated mathematical tool for time-of-death estimation still yields a window wide enough to encompass OJ Simpson's alibi window.
Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
Rigor mortis is the most uncertain and unreliable of these factors.
Direct opinion from the chief ME ranking the reliability of postmortem indicators, undermining any defense attempt to use rigor to pin down time of death.
Dr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
You won't be able to tell the difference.
On whether absent livor at 12:13 a.m. reflected elapsed time vs. massive blood loss — a key ambiguity that further prevents precise time-of-death determination.
Brian Kelberg
I'm sure there are many who would like that to be the case.
Kelberg's self-deprecating quip when the doctor used him as the hypothetical dead man for the livor mortis demonstration — a rare light moment in heavily technical testimony.

Evidence (17)

People's 367-F
Chart summarizing body cooling rate graph
introduced and discussed
People's 367-G
Chart on algor mortis factors affecting temperature loss
introduced and discussed
People's 367-H
Certified U.S. Dept. of Commerce weather observation records for Santa Monica, June 12-13, 1994
introduced, no objection, judicial notice stipulated for Fahrenheit conversion
People's 367-I
Henssge's nomogram for ambient temperatures up to 23°C
introduced and discussed
People's 367-J
Temperature-time-of-death nomogram for ambient temps up to 23°C
introduced
People's 367-K
Temperature-time-of-death nomogram for ambient temps above 23°C
introduced
+ 11 more

Notable Exchanges (4)

Brian KelbergRobert ShapiroLance A. Ito
Kelberg asked whether doctors and police 'must be aware of the large errors involved, especially when using such estimates for important forensic purposes, such as breaking the alibi of a suspect.' Shapiro immediately objected as improper; Ito sustained and asked Kelberg to rephrase.
strategic
Brian KelbergDr. Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran
Dr. Lakshmanan used Kelberg as the hypothetical corpse for his livor mortis demonstration — imagining Kelberg dying, being moved by a perpetrator, and the pathologist reading the fixed lividity to detect body movement.
light
Brian KelbergLance A. Ito
As Kelberg was introducing the vitreous humor potassium boards, Ito asked whether such a test was performed in this case. Kelberg said no, and Ito instructed him to 'be quick about this,' which Kelberg honored.
procedural
Brian KelbergMr. LynchLance A. Ito
Playing Dr. Golden's dictation tape, Fairtlough accidentally played the wrong side. Kelberg noted 'The pressure is on Mr. Lynch' before the error was discovered.
light

Light Moments (4)

Lance A. Ito
Ito opened the session with 'With alacrity' when Kelberg asked to continue.
Brian Kelberg
When Dr. Lakshmanan suggested using Kelberg as the hypothetical dead man, Kelberg quipped: 'I'm sure there are many who would like that to be the case.'
Brian Kelberg
Kelberg deflected responsibility for the tape cue onto his assistant: 'The pressure is on Mr. Lynch.' The tape was then played on the wrong side.
Brian Kelberg
After Mr. Lynch rapidly computed the Fahrenheit equivalent of 23°C on his calculator, Kelberg narrated it in real time: 'Mr. Lynch with his calculator is rapidly printing out the information.'

Objections

10 objections (3 sustained, 7 overruled)
Proceeding 6382 • 346 utterances • Prosecution witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 JUN 14, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Dr. Laks
JUN 14, 1995 KRT DvH TD