Direct examination of Roger Martz (part 1)

📄 Direct examination of Roger Martz (part 1) — Tuesday, July 25, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\25\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ROGER-MA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 121 of 167

◀ Jury greeting Sidebar: prosecution letter ▶

Witness: Roger Martz
Examiner: Robert Blasier
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, July 25, 1995 • Utterances: 129

Defense attorney Robert Blasier conducts a direct examination of Roger Martz, the FBI's chemistry toxicology unit chief, who was engaged by the prosecution to test bloodstains for the presence of EDTA — the preservative found in the purple-topped blood collection tubes used to store OJ Simpson's and Nicole Simpson's reference blood samples. Blasier methodically establishes Martz's limited academic credentials (bachelor's degree only, no advanced degrees, no relevant professional memberships, four published articles) and the fact that he almost exclusively testifies for the prosecution. The examination ends abruptly when Marcia Clark objects to a letter from the prosecution describing what they asked Martz to test.

# 1 MR. BLASIER:

Thank you, your Honor. We call Roger Martz.

Roger M. Martz, called as a witness by the Defendant, was sworn and testified as follows:

# 2 THE CLERK:

Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

# 3 MR. MARTZ:

I do.

# 4 THE CLERK:

Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

# 5 MR. MARTZ:

Roger M. Martz, m-a-r-t-z.

# 6 THE CLERK:

Thank you.

# 7 THE COURT:

Mr. Blasier.

# 8 MR. BLASIER:

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BLASIER

# 9 MR. BLASIER:

Good morning, Mr. Martz.

# 10 MR. MARTZ:

Good morning.

# 11 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Martz, what is your occupation, sir?

# 12 MR. MARTZ:

I'm a special agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

# 13 MR. BLASIER:

Do you prefer to be called Agent Martz or Mr. Martz?

# 14 MR. MARTZ:

Mr. Martz is fine.

# 15 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Martz, as special agent for the FBI, the term "Special agent," does that have any particular meaning?

# 16 MR. MARTZ:

No, it is actually just a job title.

# 17 MR. BLASIER:

All agents are special agents?

# 18 MR. MARTZ:

With the FBI, that's correct.

# 19 MR. BLASIER:

Now, what is your occupation--within the FBI, what is your occupation? What do you do?

# 20 MR. MARTZ:

I am presently assigned as the unit chief in charge of the chemistry toxicology unit at the FBI laboratory in Washington D.C.

# 21 MR. BLASIER:

Could you please describe briefly your educational background.

# 22 MR. MARTZ:

I have a bachelor's degree of science from the University of Cincinnati in Cincinnati, Ohio. I received that in 1974. After that I joined the FBI and received extensive training with the FBI laboratory.

# 23 MR. BLASIER:

So you have a bachelor in science?

# 24 MR. MARTZ:

That's correct.

# 25 MR. BLASIER:

Do you have a master's degree?

# 26 MR. MARTZ:

No, I do not.

# 27 MR. BLASIER:

Do you have a Ph.D. degree?

# 28 MR. MARTZ:

No, I do not.

# 29 MR. BLASIER:

Do you have any advanced degree whatsoever?

# 30 MR. MARTZ:

No. I have taken some advanced courses, but never attained a degree.

# 31 MR. BLASIER:

Now, are you a member of the American Society for Mass Spectrometry?

# 32 MR. MARTZ:

No, I am not.

# 33 MR. BLASIER:

What is that?

# 34 MR. MARTZ:

It is just an organization that a lot of people that perform mass spectrometry belong to.

# 35 MR. BLASIER:

Are you a member of the Canadian Society for Mass Spectrometry?

# 36 MR. MARTZ:

No, I am not.

# 37 MR. BLASIER:

Are you a member of the American chemical society?

# 38 MR. MARTZ:

No, I am not.

# 39 MR. BLASIER:

Are you a member of American academy of forensic science?

# 40 MR. MARTZ:

No, I am not.

# 41 MR. BLASIER:

Are you a member of any professional organization that has as one of its principle subjects of interest mass spectrometry?

# 42 MR. MARTZ:

The one that I am in is the Mid-Atlantic Association of Forensic Scientists and a lot of the work that most forensic scientists perform is mass spectrometry.

# 43 MR. BLASIER:

Are you an officer with that organization?

# 44 MR. MARTZ:

No, I am not.

# 45 MR. BLASIER:

Have you published any article on the area of mass spectrometry or chromatography?

# 46 MR. MARTZ:

I guess probably beginning the early 1880's I published numerous articles pertaining to mass spectrometry used in forensic science.

KEY QUOTE

# 47 MR. BLASIER:

Do you have a list of those articles?

# 48 MR. MARTZ:

Not with me, no.

# 49 MR. BLASIER:

How many articles are there that you published?

# 50 MR. MARTZ:

There is probably four that I have published over the years and then there is three that are in print right now.

# 51 MR. BLASIER:

So four that have been published up to this point in time?

# 52 MR. MARTZ:

That's correct.

# 53 MR. BLASIER:

And you started doing mass spectrometry in what year?

# 54 MR. MARTZ:

1975.

# 55 MR. BLASIER:

Now, has your entire employment history been with the FBI?

# 56 MR. MARTZ:

Well, since 1974.

# 57 MR. BLASIER:

Since college?

# 58 MR. MARTZ:

Since I received my degree from college, yes.

# 59 MR. BLASIER:

And during that period of time has it all been devoted to working with mass spectrometry?

# 60 MR. MARTZ:

Pretty much. After I joined the FBI, for the first four years I was a chemist assigned to the FBI laboratory. When I initially joined the FBI my aspirations were to become an agent with the FBI laboratory--or with the FBI. When I joined the FBI in 1974 I did not have the sufficient qualifications to become an agent, so I was assigned to the laboratory because I had a degree in science. After four years I was qualified to at least take the test to determine whether or not I could become a special agent. I passed the test and became a special agent with the FBI in 1978. And I was assigned to the Chicago division, so for approximately two years I spent investigating in the Chicago division. In 1980 I was then transferred back into the laboratory as an examiner in the FBI laboratory. For approximately the next ten years I was an examiner, assigned cases in the laboratory and worked those cases. Approximately 1989 I was then promoted to the unit chief in charge of the chemistry toxicology unit and I have held that title since then.

# 61 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Martz, did--does the FBI work on cases for state Prosecutors?

# 62 MR. MARTZ:

Yes, we do.

# 63 MR. BLASIER:

The FBI also handles federal cases for federal agencies, correct?

# 64 MR. MARTZ:

That's correct.

# 65 MR. BLASIER:

Does the FBI take Defense cases from private Defense attorneys?

# 66 MR. MARTZ:

Umm, there is exceptions to every rule, but my understanding we'll accept a case from any duly authorized government agency.

# 67 MR. BLASIER:

And that would not include defense attorneys, would it?

# 68 MR. MARTZ:

That would not, no.

# 69 MR. BLASIER:

Now, how many times have you testified as an expert in the field of toxicology?

# 70 MR. MARTZ:

In toxicology I don't know specifically, but I have testified approximately 78 times in forensic chemistry, including toxicology.

# 71 MR. BLASIER:

Can you tell us for toxicology approximately how many times, give us a rough estimate?

# 72 MR. MARTZ:

Probably not very many, to be perfectly honest. I don't have the exact number.

# 73 MR. BLASIER:

Umm, have you ever testified as an expert on the electrospray process?

# 74 MR. MARTZ:

I don't know that I understand that question. That is not generally what you ever testify to in court. You testify to the identification. The electrospray is used in that identification, but to the process, I don't quite follow the question.

# 75 MR. BLASIER:

Okay. Electrospray is one step in a particular process to analyze the presence of chemical in a substance; is that fair to say?

# 76 MR. MARTZ:

Yes, that's correct.

# 77 MR. BLASIER:

Umm, the times that you have testified in court, how many of those times have been for the Prosecution and how many have been for the Defense?

# 78 MR. MARTZ:

I believe, if memory serves me correctly, that I have only testified for the Defense on one other occasion.

KEY QUOTE

# 79 MR. BLASIER:

So it is unusual for you to be called by the Defense?

# 80 MR. MARTZ:

It has been, yes.

# 81 MR. BLASIER:

Now, you are acquainted with Dr. Fredric Rieders who was here in court yesterday?

# 82 MR. MARTZ:

Yes, I am.

# 83 MR. BLASIER:

Are you working on or consulting with him on some other criminal cases?

# 84 MR. MARTZ:

There are two other cases that we are communicating on.

# 85 MR. BLASIER:

Do those involve devising methods for detecting the presence of poisons in body tissue or in body tissue?

# 86 MR. MARTZ:

Yes, that's correct.

# 87 MR. BLASIER:

Now, could you tell us what is EDTA?

# 88 MR. MARTZ:

EDTA is a preservative, in this particular case, used to preserve blood. It has many other properties. I believe about ninety million pounds--the last time that I saw reference to was in 1975, ninety million pounds of EDTA were produced that year, so it is a very common chemical that is used extensively in preserving foods. It is used in a lot of other--it is actually used almost in all manufacturing in this country. It is a preservative. It is used in fabrics, it is used in laundry bleaches, it is used in foods. It is a very common chemical. When ninety million pounds are produced, you know that a lot of it is used.

# 89 MR. BLASIER:

And its purposes for use in blood vials, what kind of blood vials is EDTA put in?

# 90 MR. MARTZ:

It is put into the lavender or purple-topped test-tubes.

# 91 MR. BLASIER:

Your Honor, could we display People's or Defense 1258 on the elmo?

# 92 MR. BLASIER:

Agent Martz, could you please look at the monitor and tell us is what is depicted there are pictures of two purple-topped EDTA blood tubes?

# 93 MR. MARTZ:

Yeah. Those are purple-topped tubes that I received in the laboratory on February the 19th, I believe.

# 94 MR. BLASIER:

And you provided this picture to me, did you not?

# 95 MR. MARTZ:

That's correct.

# 96 MR. BLASIER:

Now, what is your understanding as to where those purple-topped EDTA tubes came from?

# 97 MR. MARTZ:

One came from OJ Simpson and the other from Nicole Simpson.

# 98 MR. BLASIER:

And the one that came from Nicole Simpson, what is your understanding as to when that was collected?

# 99 MR. MARTZ:

I assume it was taken at autopsy.

# 100 MR. BLASIER:

After death?

# 101 MR. MARTZ:

Right.

# 102 MR. BLASIER:

Now, at some point in time were you contacted by the Los Angeles County District Attorney regarding this case?

# 103 MR. MARTZ:

Umm--

# 104 MR. BLASIER:

Or representatives of the Prosecution in this case?

# 105 MR. MARTZ:

I was certainly contacted. I don't know exactly how--how it worked, whether they contacted me or they contacted me through Quantico, our research facility, but we did make contact at one point.

# 106 MR. BLASIER:

About when did that occur? When was the first contact that they had with you?

# 107 MR. MARTZ:

With me it is hard to say. I first did my test on February the 8th, so I certainly had contact before February the 8th.

# 108 MR. BLASIER:

Do you know whether you are--are you--have you been following this trial at all?

# 109 MR. MARTZ:

You know, working, you can't follow it very closely, but news at night, you certainly see it on the news and in the newspaper.

# 110 MR. BLASIER:

Do you know whether when the Prosecutors contacted you it was before or after the opening statement in this case?

# 111 MR. MARTZ:

When was the opening statement?

# 112 MR. BLASIER:

In late January.

# 113 MR. MARTZ:

I probably didn't become involved until after that. Whether the FBI was contacted before that on the EDTA, I don't know, but I don't think I was contacted before that time period.

# 114 MR. BLASIER:

Now, once you were contacted were you asked to perform certain tests?

# 115 MR. MARTZ:

Umm, yes.

# 116 MR. BLASIER:

And what did they ask you to do?

# 117 MR. MARTZ:

They asked us to determine whether or not we could determine whether the bloodstains, the two bloodstains in question, originated from purple-topped test-tubes or test-tubes that were preserved with EDTA.

# 118 MR. BLASIER:

Well, do you have the--the letter with you that describes what it is they asked you to do?

# 119 MR. MARTZ:

I think I do have that letter.

# 120 MR. BLASIER:

Do you have it handy or do you want me to give you a copy?

# 121 MR. MARTZ:

If you can give me a copy, that would make it a lot easier.

# 122 (Brief pause.)

# 123 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 124 MS. CLARK:

May we approach, your Honor? We have an objection to the letter.

# 125 THE COURT:

Excuse me?

# 126 MS. CLARK:

There will be an objection. I think the Court needs to see this.

# 127 THE COURT:

I can't hear you.

# 128 MS. CLARK:

Objection, irrelevant. I would like to approach so the Court can see what I'm objecting to.

# 129 THE COURT:

All right. With the court reporter, please.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Roger Martz

ninety million pounds of EDTA were produced that year, so it is a very common chemical that is used extensively in preserving foods. It is used in a lot of other--it is actually used almost in all manufacturing in this country.

Martz contextualizes EDTA as an ubiquitous industrial chemical, which could cut both ways — it explains why EDTA in a bloodstain might come from environmental contamination rather than a preserved tube.

Roger Martz

I believe, if memory serves me correctly, that I have only testified for the Defense on one other occasion.

Establishes Martz as a prosecution-aligned expert, undercutting the appearance of independence for a defense witness.

Roger Martz

we'll accept a case from any duly authorized government agency

Confirms the FBI laboratory does not take cases from defense attorneys, reinforcing the institutional prosecution bias Blasier is building toward.

Roger Martz

I guess probably beginning the early 1880's I published numerous articles pertaining to mass spectrometry used in forensic science.

Apparent transcript error (should be 1980s); Martz's actual answer reveals only four published articles, which Blasier will use to question the depth of his expertise.

Evidence (2)

Defense 1258

Photograph of two purple-topped EDTA blood collection tubes — one containing blood from OJ Simpson, one from Nicole Simpson (collected at autopsy)

displayed on the Elmo and identified by Martz

Informal

Letter from the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office describing what tests the prosecution requested Martz to perform

sought by Blasier; objected to by Marcia Clark as irrelevant before it could be introduced

Notable Exchanges (2)

Robert Blasier•Roger Martz

Blasier methodically runs through a list of professional organizations — American Society for Mass Spectrometry, Canadian Society for Mass Spectrometry, American Chemical Society, American Academy of Forensic Sciences — getting Martz to confirm he belongs to none of them, establishing thin professional credentials for the prosecution's EDTA expert.

strategic

Marcia Clark•Lance A. Ito

Clark interrupts at the end of the examination to object to the prosecution's own letter being read into evidence, calling it irrelevant and requesting to approach. The proceeding ends at sidebar.

procedural

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Roger Martz

credential attack

Blasier systematically establishes that Martz holds only a bachelor's degree, no advanced degrees, belongs to no major professional organizations in mass spectrometry or forensic chemistry, has published only four articles in his career, and has almost exclusively testified for the prosecution — framing him as an institutionally biased, credentially limited expert for a technically complex EDTA analysis.

Witness Demeanor

(Brief pause.)

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 7019 • 129 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103