Redirect examination of John Meraz

📄 Redirect examination of John Meraz — Wednesday, July 19, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\19\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-JOHN-M.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 118 of 167

◀ Cross-examination of John Meraz (part 6) Recross-examination of John Meraz ▶

Witness: John Meraz
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 19, 1995 • Utterances: 189

Cochran conducts redirect examination of John Meraz, a Viertel's tow yard employee who picked up OJ Simpson's Ford Bronco on June 15, 1994. Cochran rehabilitates Meraz's credibility after Clark's cross, reinforcing that Meraz returned the papers he took from the Bronco, saw no blood inside the vehicle on three separate occasions, and that his lawyers were obtained independently through his fiancee — not referred by the defense team.

# 1 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly, your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

# 2 MR. COCHRAN:

Mr. Meraz, a few questions if I might.

# 3 MR. COCHRAN:

Let's put that back up just a second, Mr. Fairtlough, please.

# 4 THE COURT:

This is 533.

# 5 MR. COCHRAN:

533, your Honor. Thank you very much.

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

With regard to exhibit 533, is that what you told this jury here today, that you took these papers out of the car and put them back in that car?

# 7 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 8 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that what you've been telling and saying all along to everybody who is listening in this case?

# 9 MR. MERAZ:

To everybody, yes.

# 10 MR. COCHRAN:

And is that the truth?

# 11 MR. MERAZ:

That's the truth.

# 12 MR. COCHRAN:

When you took the papers from the car, you kept them that day and you put them back in that car that same day; is that right?

# 13 MR. MERAZ:

This is true.

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

And so you didn't permanently deprive the owner of those particular papers; is that correct?

# 15 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Leading.

# 16 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 17 MR. MERAZ:

That's true.

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

You put them back, right?

# 19 MR. MERAZ:

Put them back assuming that they were still there.

# 20 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And then you didn't find them later; is that right?

# 21 MR. MERAZ:

Couldn't find them later.

# 22 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you remember Miss Clark was asking you some questions from the transcript, and you said she was confused in her answer? Do you recall that? She read a transcript of a conversation with Mr. Hodgman. Remember that?

# 23 MR. MERAZ:

Oh, yes.

# 24 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. I want to read what she read and I want to read where she stopped. All right?

# 25 MR. MERAZ:

Okay.

# 26 MR. COCHRAN:

If I might, your Honor. Counsel knows what page.

# 27 THE COURT:

What page?

# 28 MR. COCHRAN:

This is page 5389, your Honor, beginning at line 7. I want to read it all the way through for--to clear it up if I might. "Question:"

# 29 MS. CLARK:

Object to the editorial, your Honor.

# 30 THE COURT:

Sustained. Jury is to disregard it.

# 31 MR. COCHRAN:

"Question:" may I proceed?

# 32 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 33 MR. COCHRAN:

"Question: And once again on that date, you were asked by Mr. Viertel this time had you removed any items from the Ford Bronco; is that correct? "Answer: That's correct. "Question: And at first, you denied taking anything out of the Ford Bronco; isn't that right? "Answer: That is not true." That's the same thing you told us here; isn't that correct?

# 34 MR. MERAZ:

That's true.

# 35 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. "Question: At first, you denied taking anything from the Ford Bronco; did you not? "Answer: At first, yes. "Question: So at first, you lied again, this time to Mr. Viertel and to Mr. Jones; isn't that correct? "Answer: I don't quite follow you on that statement, what you were saying. You were saying two things. I denied it to Bob the day I was in there. I did not deny it to Viertel." Did you so testify?

# 36 MR. MERAZ:

That's my statement, yes.

# 37 MR. COCHRAN:

And that's what you told this jury also, isn't it?

# 38 MR. MERAZ:

This is true.

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

"Question: Isn't it a fact, Mr. Meraz, that you only admitted taking those items after you were shown some written statements from other employees at Viertel's? "Answer: That's not true." Did you so testify?

# 40 MR. MERAZ:

True. That's true.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

And that's the same thing you told this jury here; isn't that correct?

# 42 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 43 MR. COCHRAN:

May I proceed, your Honor, same exhibit?

# 44 THE COURT:

Please.

# 45 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you.

# 46 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, I want to ask you a few more questions if I might, Mr. Meraz. With regard to this Bronco vehicle that you towed there, when you arrived at Viertel's on June 15 sometime after 11 o'clock in the morning of that date, did you see--ever see any other Viertel employees in and around the Bronco vehicle after you arrived there?

# 47 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Compound, vague.

# 48 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

Certainly, your Honor.

# 50 THE COURT:

Compound.

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

When you got to Viertel's, did you see any other Viertel employees there?

# 52 MR. MERAZ:

When I pulled into the yard, they were waiting for me out there in the yard.

# 53 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And how many were waiting for you?

# 54 MR. MERAZ:

10. 10 employees.

# 55 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to these 10 employees, did you see whether or not any of them ever looked inside that Bronco?

# 56 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Vague.

# 57 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 58 MR. MERAZ:

Well, the door was open. The driver's side of the door was open. So they all had access to see what was in the Bronco.

# 59 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

# 60 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Motion to strike. Nonresponsive.

# 61 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 62 MR. COCHRAN:

And did you ever observe whether or not any of them looked inside the Bronco?

# 63 MR. MERAZ:

There was so much commotion going on because everybody was so enthused of looking at the Bronco.

# 64 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And why were they enthused at looking at the Bronco?

# 65 MR. MERAZ:

Uh, maybe it was because it was OJ Simpson's car and the way the media press had put it out to be like.

# 66 MR. COCHRAN:

And what did the media press put it out to be?

# 67 MR. MERAZ:

Said it had all kinds of blood inside the car and they were all looking for blood.

KEY QUOTE

# 68 MR. COCHRAN:

And did you see any blood on that occasion?

# 69 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Asked and answered.

# 70 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 71 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't see any blood at all.

# 72 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, I'm going to show you this photograph which counsel showed you, put 529 on the elmo, and I'll ask you specifically regarding this photograph.

# 73 MR. COCHRAN:

Move that in.

# 74 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, Miss Clark asked you some questions about this particular photograph, exhibit 529. Do you recall that?

# 75 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 76 MR. COCHRAN:

And in looking at that photograph, you described that you saw some spots on the inside of that door of that vehicle, right?

# 77 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 78 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, on the date when you were inside that vehicle on June 15th, on these three occasions, did you ever see those spots that are depicted in 523 there inside that vehicle?

# 79 MS. CLARK:

Objection, your Honor. This is bad faith.

# 80 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 81 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ever see those spots in that vehicle at that time?

# 82 MR. MERAZ:

No, I did not.

# 83 MR. COCHRAN:

And you have--Miss Clark intimated you have some problems with your sight. Do you have any problem seeing those spots there?

# 84 MR. MERAZ:

No. No, I don't.

# 85 MR. COCHRAN:

And she also indicated you were color blind. Are you color blind?

# 86 MR. MERAZ:

No, I don't think so.

# 87 MR. COCHRAN:

And when you referred to that marker as being pink, does that appear pink to you?

# 88 THE COURT:

Arrow.

# 89 MR. MERAZ:

The arrow?

# 90 MR. COCHRAN:

I think she used marker, but--

# 91 THE COURT:

Arrow.

# 92 MR. COCHRAN:

The arrow?

# 93 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 94 MR. COCHRAN:

Appear pink to you?

# 95 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 96 MR. COCHRAN:

And you could tell the difference between pink and green; could you not?

# 97 MR. MERAZ:

Yes. The round things were green.

# 98 MR. COCHRAN:

And the arrow that you see up on the screen now?

# 99 MR. MERAZ:

Is pink.

# 100 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, I want to ask you specifically, you were asked some questions, some other questions about some marks on the door.

# 101 MR. COCHRAN:

I want to place this on the elmo, your Honor, 528-A. You can move that back.

# 102 MR. COCHRAN:

Can you see that?

# 103 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 104 MR. COCHRAN:

Apparently looks like some dark powder in and around the driver's door of the Bronco?

# 105 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 106 MR. COCHRAN:

When you picked that Bronco up from the print shed on June 15th, 1994 somewhere around 11 o'clock or thereabouts on that date, do you recall seeing the door of the Bronco in that condition where you saw any black print powder or brown or dark gray print powder on the vehicle?

# 107 MR. MERAZ:

No, I didn't.

# 108 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you said you worked for Viertel's for some 25 years?

# 109 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 110 MR. COCHRAN:

And have you seen print powder on cars before?

# 111 MR. MERAZ:

A lot of times.

# 112 MR. COCHRAN:

And you know what print powder looks like?

# 113 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 114 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, the representation was, this picture was taken I think she said on June 14th. You didn't see the car on the 14th, did you?

# 115 MR. MERAZ:

No. I didn't see it on the 14th.

# 116 MR. COCHRAN:

You saw it on the 15th?

# 117 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 118 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did the side door of that car appear that way on the 15th when you picked it up as you recall, your honest opinion?

# 119 MR. MERAZ:

My honest opinion that I can recall, I did not see that.

# 120 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, she asked you some questions also about dome lights and things. Do you recall any--looking or seeing any dome lights in that car at all?

# 121 MR. MERAZ:

I wasn't looking for--

# 122 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you recall when you opened the Bronco of whether or not there are lights down near the running board or the floorboard of the car? Do you recall that?

# 123 MR. MERAZ:

I can't really recall if the light was on or if the light was off or if there was a lightbulb. I can't honestly say that there was--

# 124 MR. COCHRAN:

I'm sorry.

# 125 MR. MERAZ:

That there was--

# 126 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that something you weren't paying attention to?

# 127 MR. MERAZ:

I wasn't paying attention to it.

# 128 MR. COCHRAN:

And you did not drive that vehicle, did you?

# 129 MR. MERAZ:

No keys.

# 130 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, she also asked you a question about looking at the console. On any of the three occasions that you stepped inside that particular vehicle, did you ever look at the console over to the right of the driver's compartment and look at the console?

# 131 MR. MERAZ:

Briefly. Just a glance.

# 132 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And when you glanced over to the right of the console, did you ever see any blood at that time?

# 133 MR. MERAZ:

I'd have seen the blood.

# 134 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you see any blood?

# 135 MR. MERAZ:

No, I didn't.

# 136 MR. COCHRAN:

And, Mr. Meraz, you were actually looking for blood; isn't that correct?

# 137 MR. MERAZ:

This is correct.

# 138 MR. COCHRAN:

And you knew what blood looked like before June 15th of 1994; isn't that correct?

# 139 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 140 MR. COCHRAN:

You also pointed out to us that the floor mat was missing; isn't that correct?

# 141 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 142 MR. COCHRAN:

Is there any doubt in your mind at all that when you looked inside that vehicle on those three occasions, that you did not see any blood inside that vehicle?

# 143 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't see any blood. I'd have known.

KEY QUOTE

# 144 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you were asked some questions about your lawyers. You understand you have an absolute constitutional right in this country still to have lawyers?

# 145 MR. MERAZ:

This is true.

# 146 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, Miss Clark asked you some questions about these fine lawyers who are here. Who referred these lawyers or these lawyers to you? Tell the jury.

# 147 MR. MERAZ:

My fiancee worked with another woman at her place, and she got them through her, and that's how I got them.

# 148 MR. COCHRAN:

Did anybody from the Defense, Mr. Shapiro, myself, Mr. Scheck, Mr. Neufeld, Mr. Blasier, Mr. Douglas, did any of us ever at any time refer you to a lawyer?

# 149 MR. MERAZ:

No. Not at no time.

# 150 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. These lawyers came through your fiancee; is that correct?

# 151 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 152 MR. COCHRAN:

And why did you get lawyers at that time?

# 153 MR. MERAZ:

I was hammered--being hammered very hard by the press because of I towing the Bronco and they made me look out to be like a mobster, that I ransacked the car and I did this. I never did it.

# 154 MR. COCHRAN:

So you got a lawyer?

# 155 MR. MERAZ:

Yes, to protect myself.

# 156 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that what lawyers are supposed to do?

# 157 MR. MERAZ:

That's what a lawyer's supposed to do.

# 158 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you ransack the inside of the Bronco?

# 159 MR. MERAZ:

No. No.

# 160 MR. COCHRAN:

You took two vouchers; is that correct?

# 161 MR. MERAZ:

Two vouchers.

# 162 MR. COCHRAN:

And you returned those vouchers?

# 163 MR. MERAZ:

I returned those vouchers back.

# 164 MR. COCHRAN:

When was the last time you saw those vouchers?

# 165 MR. MERAZ:

Last time I seen them was the 15th of June at about 5:00, 5 o'clock in the afternoon when I put them back in there. I've never seen them since.

KEY QUOTE

# 166 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you know who took them?

# 167 MR. MERAZ:

No, I don't. I wish I did.

# 168 MR. COCHRAN:

You didn't take them?

# 169 MR. MERAZ:

No.

# 170 MR. COCHRAN:

Have you tried to profit from your knowledge of this case by selling your story to programs like hard copy or current affair?

# 171 MR. MERAZ:

No, I haven't.

# 172 MR. COCHRAN:

You have not done that?

# 173 MR. MERAZ:

No, I haven't.

# 174 MR. COCHRAN:

You're not writing a book, are you?

# 175 MR. MERAZ:

No. No.

# 176 MR. COCHRAN:

You're maintaining a lawsuit, trying to get your job back or get some compensation?

# 177 MR. MERAZ:

Yes. This is true. It's true.

# 178 MR. COCHRAN:

Have you told this jury the truth about what happened on June 15th of 1994?

# 179 MR. MERAZ:

Yes, I have.

# 180 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you have any ax to grind in this case one way or the other?

# 181 MR. MERAZ:

No.

# 182 MR. COCHRAN:

Do you think testifying in this case is going to help you get your job back at Viertel's? You don't think that, do you?

# 183 MR. MERAZ:

I doubt that very much.

# 184 MR. COCHRAN:

And you are here pursuant to a search warrant--strike that. You are here pursuant to--you are here pursuant to a subpoena to testify; isn't that correct?

# 185 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 186 MR. COCHRAN:

We never issued a search warrant for you, did we? We issued a subpoena for you; is that right?

# 187 MR. MERAZ:

That's right.

# 188 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor. I have nothing further.

# 189 THE COURT:

Thank you, counsel.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

John Meraz

Said it had all kinds of blood inside the car and they were all looking for blood.

Explains why 10 Viertel employees were crowding around the Bronco — media coverage had primed them to look for blood, supporting the defense theory that the vehicle was accessed by many people before investigators secured it.

John Meraz

I didn't see any blood. I'd have known.

Meraz affirms he was actively looking for blood and still saw none, directly undermining the prosecution's blood evidence in the Bronco.

John Meraz

I was hammered very hard by the press because of I towing the Bronco and they made me look out to be like a mobster, that I ransacked the car and I did this. I never did it.

Explains why Meraz hired lawyers — media pressure, not consciousness of guilt — rehabilitating him after Clark implied the lawyers signaled wrongdoing.

John Meraz

Last time I seen them was the 15th of June at about 5:00, 5 o'clock in the afternoon when I put them back in there. I've never seen them since.

Meraz places the vouchers back in the Bronco and denies knowing who took them — leaving open the question of who subsequently removed them from the vehicle.

Evidence (4)

People's 533

Document or photograph related to the papers/vouchers Meraz removed from the Bronco

discussed

People's 529

Photograph of interior of Ford Bronco showing spots on inside of door

discussed, challenged

People's 528-A

Photograph showing dark fingerprint powder on driver's door of Bronco

discussed

Informal

Trial transcript page 5389, lines 7 onwards — Meraz's prior testimony before Hodgman and Viertel regarding whether he removed items from the Bronco

read into record by Cochran to complete passage Clark had partially read on cross

Notable Exchanges (4)

Johnnie Cochran•John Meraz

Cochran reads the full transcript passage that Clark had stopped short of on cross, allowing Meraz to confirm that the complete context supported his testimony — that he denied taking items to one person (Bob) but did not deny it to Viertel.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•John Meraz

Cochran directly challenges Clark's color-blindness insinuation by having Meraz identify the pink arrow and green dots on the exhibit, demonstrating Meraz can distinguish colors.

rehabilitative

Johnnie Cochran•Marcia Clark

Clark objects 'bad faith' when Cochran asks Meraz whether he saw the blood spots depicted in exhibit 529 during his June 15th visit. Ito overrules.

heated

Johnnie Cochran•John Meraz

Cochran walks Meraz through the list of every defense attorney by name, asking whether any of them referred him to his lawyers. Meraz says no to each name — the lawyers came through his fiancee's coworker.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Johnnie Cochran

Cochran accidentally says 'search warrant' instead of 'subpoena' at the very end, catches himself mid-sentence, and corrects it.

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ John Meraz

rehabilitation after impeachment

Cochran systematically undoes Clark's cross: completing the truncated transcript passage, rebutting the color-blindness insinuation, re-establishing that Meraz returned the papers the same day, clarifying the lawyers were independently obtained, and confirming Meraz has no financial motive from the case.

Objections

9 objections (2 sustained, 6 overruled)

Proceeding 6934 • 189 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103