Cross-examination of Richard Walsh (part 2)

📄 Cross-examination of Richard Walsh (part 2) — Wednesday, July 19, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\19\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-RICHARD-W.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 118 of 167

◀ Jury returning Sidebar: video exhibit testimony ▶

Witness: Richard Walsh
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 19, 1995 • Utterances: 214

Darden cross-examines Richard Walsh, the fitness trainer who directed OJ Simpson's Playboy exercise video, to establish that Simpson was physically capable of committing the murders. The central thrust is a quote Walsh attributed to Simpson at the end of the grueling shoot: that completing the workout was 'like game day' — meaning that despite feeling like a wreck during the week, Simpson could always rise to the occasion when it counted.

# 1 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect we've been rejoined by all the members of our jury. Mr. Richard Walsh, would you resume the witness stand, please. And, Mr. Darden, you may continue with your cross-examination.

# 2 MR. DARDEN:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 3 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Walsh, during these exercises, the Defendant was able to extend fully pretty much all of his major muscle groups; is that right?

# 4 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 5 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you one brief segment.

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

Which one is this, counsel?

# 7 MR. DARDEN:

This is from--

# 8 THE COURT:

Which exhibit is this from?

# 9 MR. DARDEN:

This is 16:42:44 from the out-takes.

# 10 THE COURT:

Out-take video. The out-take video.

# 11 MR. DARDEN:

That will be 124 I believe from exhibit 521.

# 12 (At 3:10 P.M., People's exhibit 521, a videotape, was played.)

# 13 MR. DARDEN:

What do we see here, Mr. Walsh? Narrate this for us.

# 14 MR. WALSH:

We're walking in place right--we're walking in place right now doing some straight arm movements, working the anterior deltoid.

# 15 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. He is extending his--both arms completely, fully and completely; is that correct?

# 16 MR. WALSH:

That's correct.

# 17 MR. DARDEN:

He's also extending his--both legs to the rear; is that right?

# 18 MR. WALSH:

Correct. One at a time.

# 19 MR. DARDEN:

Bending his knees. Now, what is he doing?

# 20 MR. WALSH:

We're doing some punching, movements of--incorporating upper body muscle groups.

# 21 MR. DARDEN:

He is twisting his upper body completely?

# 22 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 23 MR. DARDEN:

And he's punching out?

# 24 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 25 MR. DARDEN:

Now, he's punching up?

# 26 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 27 MR. DARDEN:

Hands in a fist?

# 28 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 29 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you another portion from that same exhibit, 15:49:46. What is he doing here?

# 30 MR. WALSH:

Extending arm over head, short lever, long lever.

# 31 MR. DARDEN:

And he's extending his arm completely in front of him and over his head?

# 32 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 33 MR. DARDEN:

And that requires the use of the major muscle groups in the shoulder and the back, right?

# 34 MR. WALSH:

Shoulder, back, arms, lats, correct.

# 35 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you another segment, 15:48:45. He is able to extend his arms outward fully?

# 36 MR. WALSH:

Right. We're going arms over head like this (Indicating), bringing it down forward, extending down to warm up a little bit.

# 37 (At 3:12 P.M., the playing of the videotape was concluded.)

# 38 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you did warm up a little bit; is that right?

# 39 MR. WALSH:

Yes, we did. Part of the--any type of activity always should include a warm-up, and on our tape, of course, it was a three to five minute warm-up.

# 40 MR. DARDEN:

And I think it was your finding that after watching the Defendant warm up, that the more he warmed up, the more limber he appeared; is that correct?

# 41 MR. WALSH:

That is correct.

# 42 MR. DARDEN:

The more he warmed up, the more he could do; is that right?

# 43 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 44 MR. DARDEN:

And he could do things easier, right?

# 45 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 46 MR. DARDEN:

Now, there were times during this taping when you yourself felt a little winded; is that right?

# 47 MR. WALSH:

No. I don't think so in all honesty. I mean, I may have been a little bit tired. Mostly tired of talking maybe, but physically, no.

# 48 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Is it more difficult to exercise and talk than it is to just exercise?

# 49 MR. WALSH:

You bet.

# 50 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form.

# 51 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 52 MR. WALSH:

Yes, it is. In fact, the project I'm hired for mostly, I'm hired hosting projects because of my mouth, not because of anything else. In fact, when Playboy hired me, they hired me because they said, "Though you're in shape, you have the appearance that people could look at you and say, `geez, I could look like that,' as opposed to someone who is so physically fit, they could--`I'll never be able to look like that.'" so it's kind of a back-handed compliment.

# 53 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. At any event--and you do talk, Mr. Walsh--but it is more difficult to exercise and talk while exercising?

# 54 MR. WALSH:

Tremendous amount. Tremendous.

# 55 MR. DARDEN:

It takes a lot more aerobic--

KEY QUOTE

# 56 MR. WALSH:

Conditioning.

# 57 MR. DARDEN:

--effort. Conditioning. And that's what the Defendant did in this case, right? He exercised and he talked during those exercises?

# 58 MR. WALSH:

Right. When you see the tape, it would be like compared to a football game. I would be the play-by-play man, and then he would be the color commentator. He throws in the tidbits and I throw in the foundation types.

# 59 MR. DARDEN:

You know, to get back to those occasions when you would challenge the Defendant and motivate him and help him set a goal--

# 60 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to that question. I object to the form of that question.

# 61 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 62 MR. COCHRAN:

Compound.

# 63 MR. DARDEN:

You concluded at some point that the Defendant was really a gamer; is that right?

# 64 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 65 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. That's the word you used, "Gamer"?

# 66 MR. WALSH:

I believe so.

# 67 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And what did you mean by that?

# 68 MR. WALSH:

Well, towards the end of the day--we had been going a long time. The two girls behind me were very physically fit and used to this type of activity. Nobody is used to 12-hour days of exercise. They were. Two men behind me, young men in their 30's, they were beat. I mean they were gone. And they're in better shape, at least in my opinion, than OJ was, and there are times I thought he was not going to be able to finish many times. I talked with Playboy prior to shooting, not able to get him better prepared for it, and somehow, you know, when "Action" was said, he somehow dug down and was able to pull it out.

# 69 MR. DARDEN:

He was able to do it once the camera came on, correct?

# 70 MR. WALSH:

Uh-huh. Yeah.

# 71 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form of that question. It has nothing to do with the camera.

# 72 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 73 MR. DARDEN:

Once you began shooting, the Defendant somehow found the energy and made the effort to do the exercises that you wanted him to do; is that right?

# 74 MR. WALSH:

That's correct.

# 75 MR. DARDEN:

And he managed to do them the way that you wanted him to do those exercises?

# 76 MR. WALSH:

Pretty much so, yeah.

# 77 MR. DARDEN:

Let me just show you a clip from 16:45:38.

# 78 (At 3:15 P.M., People's exhibit 521, a videotape, was played.)

# 79 MR. DARDEN:

What's going on here?

# 80 MR. WALSH:

Getting ready to do push-ups.

# 81 (At 3:16 P.M., the playing of the videotape was concluded.)

# 82 MR. DARDEN:

Now, in that video clip we just saw of the Defendant doing push-ups--

# 83 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 84 MR. DARDEN:

--right, his back was straight, correct?

# 85 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 86 MR. DARDEN:

He did it in the appropriate manner?

# 87 MR. WALSH:

Yes. I'd say so.

# 88 MR. DARDEN:

And there was one point in that video where the Defendant was sort of challenging you, wasn't he?

# 89 MR. WALSH:

Probably.

# 90 MR. DARDEN:

You looked a little winded there; wouldn't you agree?

# 91 MR. WALSH:

He was dreaming. I wasn't--no. I think he was kidding, go along with the theme of exercise video or a show, kind of the motivation type stuff.

# 92 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, when the video session was over--and I'm sorry. How long did it take?

# 93 MR. WALSH:

I don't know the exact number of hours. I wouldn't be surprised if it took 15 hours.

# 94 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, would that be 15 hours of actual taping?

# 95 MR. WALSH:

No. Wouldn't be 15 hours of actual taping, but what it would be would be 15 hours that day on the set. You know, you do break for lunch, you do have breaks in-between run-throughs. You do have breaks for camera reasons or any other problem, but it's quite a bit of exercise.

# 96 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And after you completed the shooting for that day--

# 97 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 98 MR. DARDEN:

--after about 15 hours, did you discuss with the Defendant his performance that day?

# 99 MR. WALSH:

I did in leaving.

# 100 MR. DARDEN:

Did you ask him how he was able to do that?

# 101 MR. COCHRAN:

This is hearsay, your Honor.

# 102 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 103 MR. DARDEN:

May I have one moment, your Honor?

# 104 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 105 MR. DARDEN:

Your Honor, this is a question posed to the Defendant.

# 106 MR. COCHRAN:

I couldn't hear.

# 107 MR. DARDEN:

It's not offered for the truth of the matter stated.

# 108 THE COURT:

Let me see counsel without the court reporter, please.

# 109 (A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)

# 110 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

# 111 THE COURT:

All right. Proceed.

# 112 MR. DARDEN:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 113 THE COURT:

Proceed.

# 114 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Walsh, at the end of that session that day, you asked the Defendant how he was able to complete the workout that day, correct?

# 115 MR. WALSH:

Yes, I did.

# 116 MR. DARDEN:

What did he say?

# 117 MR. WALSH:

Again, I don't know the exact wording he used. I believe it was something to the effect that, he said, "It's like--it's like Sunday," or, "Just like game day," or something like that, referring to the days when he played football. I believe that was the wording.

# 118 MR. DARDEN:

The Defendant said it was like game day?

# 119 MR. WALSH:

Something like that, yeah.

# 120 MR. DARDEN:

And in fact, he went on to explain to you what he meant by that term, correct?

# 121 MR. WALSH:

No. He just kind of let it go like that. You know, kind of like, you know, referring to the old Sundays when it was time to put the helmet on.

# 122 MR. DARDEN:

That's something that he said?

# 123 MR. WALSH:

Yes. I believe so.

# 124 MR. DARDEN:

Well, what did he say in that regard?

# 125 MR. WALSH:

I remember finishing--

# 126 MR. COCHRAN:

I'm sorry. I didn't hear the question.

# 127 THE COURT:

What did he say in that regard.

# 128 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you.

# 129 MR. WALSH:

We finished it. And remember, we were going to do one run through. And after a little kind of coaxing him, we went through the whole aerobic segment one last time. This was in the, you know, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th hour, wherever it was where we finished. And I have to admit, I was amazed that the man was able to do it. I looked and said, "How were you able to do that," because he was dead set on stopping after the first round, and that's when he made that comment.

# 130 MR. DARDEN:

The comment being that it's like game day?

# 131 MR. WALSH:

Like game day.

# 132 MR. DARDEN:

And the Defendant told you at that time that back when he played in the NFL, during those days, that he'd be a wreck all week, correct?

# 133 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection, your Honor. Hearsay.

# 134 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 135 MR. WALSH:

Not at that time.

# 136 MR. DARDEN:

Oh, he told you something like that at a later time?

# 137 MR. WALSH:

No. An earlier time.

# 138 MR. DARDEN:

Well, when was it that he told you that?

# 139 MR. COCHRAN:

It's hearsay, your Honor.

# 140 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 141 MR. WALSH:

It was during that--when I mentioned we had that break, and we really had to spend two hours of virtually doing nothing and we were just kind of sitting around discussing--you know, discussing football days, discussing other stuff, golf and things like that.

# 142 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And what did he say to you at that time about being a physical wreck in the NFL?

# 143 MR. WALSH:

Umm, mentioning that, you know, you'd wake up Monday morning and feeling pretty beat up, you know, kind of sometimes lasts throughout the week. And again, I don't know exactly the words used, but it was something referring to--and this wasn't the first time I've heard this. I know several NFL football players who've kind of mentioned the same thing. So--

# 144 MR. DARDEN:

Well, you had a conversation with one of my investigators on March 22, 1995; is that correct?

# 145 MR. WALSH:

I don't know. Could I see the transcript?

# 146 MR. DARDEN:

You spoke to my investigator, Dana Thompson?

# 147 MR. WALSH:

Yes, I did.

# 148 MR. DARDEN:

And that conversation was recorded?

# 149 MR. WALSH:

That was recorded.

# 150 MR. DARDEN:

Would it refresh your recollection to look at a transcript of the conversation you had with Mr. Thompson?

# 151 MR. COCHRAN:

May I see it, your Honor?

# 152 MR. WALSH:

I would.

# 153 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 154 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

# 155 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you page 6. Let me--I'm going to ask you to read it to yourself first of all. I'm going to direct your attention to paragraph 2.

# 156 MR. WALSH:

(The witness complies.) Just the yellow, right?

# 157 MR. DARDEN:

Yes. Just paragraph 2.

# 158 MR. WALSH:

Correct. That's pretty much everything I said.

# 159 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Does that refresh your recollection as to what you said?

# 160 MR. WALSH:

Umm, yeah. I mean, that's kind of the way I answered, right.

# 161 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Okay. Well, the Defendant told you that it was like game day, right?

# 162 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 163 MR. DARDEN:

And he told you about being in the NFL, right?

# 164 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 165 MR. DARDEN:

He told you about being a physical wreck throughout the week?

# 166 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 167 MR. DARDEN:

And then he told you despite any physical ailments or limitations he felt he might have during the week, he was always able to play on Sunday, right?

# 168 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 169 MR. DARDEN:

He told you that he got up for game day, right?

# 170 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 171 MR. DARDEN:

He got up for the challenge?

KEY QUOTE

# 172 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 173 MR. DARDEN:

Let me just show you a couple more excerpts, and I'll be finished, Mr. Walsh.

# 174 THE COURT:

16:44:27?

# 175 MR. DARDEN:

Yes.

# 176 (At 3:24 P.M., People's exhibit 521, a videotape, was played.)

# 177 MR. DARDEN:

He's sort of bending his knees there?

# 178 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 179 MR. DARDEN:

Some lateral movement there?

# 180 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 181 MR. DARDEN:

And that doesn't mean that he can play in the NBA, right?

# 182 MR. WALSH:

No way.

# 183 MR. DARDEN:

But he does have some lateral movement?

# 184 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 185 MR. DARDEN:

You mentioned a few moments ago that the Defendant made it all the way through the entire last--

# 186 MR. WALSH:

All three rounds.

# 187 (At 3:25 P.M., the playing of the videotape was concluded.)

# 188 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. How long did each round last?

# 189 MR. WALSH:

Oh, I would say somewhere in the vicinity of nine minutes.

# 190 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And how many times did you do each segment?

# 191 MR. WALSH:

Throughout the day total?

# 192 MR. DARDEN:

Yeah.

# 193 MR. WALSH:

Boy, I would probably say we did each round I'd say three times each at least and then the last run-through. So three times each, I'd say maybe four times each.

# 194 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, would you agree this Defendant could--Mr. Simpson, he could exert himself physically for two or three minutes at one time?

# 195 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 196 MR. DARDEN:

I would like to show you another excerpt. You and the Defendant had a number of brief conversations throughout the day; is that right?

# 197 MR. WALSH:

Yeah. I would imagine so.

# 198 MR. DARDEN:

Let me show you 16:42:44.

# 199 (At 3:25 P.M., People's exhibit 521, a videotape, was played.)

# 200 MR. DARDEN:

And before we start running this, what's the Defendant doing in this still?

# 201 MR. WALSH:

Looks like we're just reaching up in the air.

# 202 THE COURT:

15:48:54.

# 203 MR. WALSH:

We're either reaching up--

# 204 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, in this segment, his arms are fully extended in front of him; is that right?

# 205 MR. WALSH:

Yes. It appears so.

# 206 THE COURT:

That's at 16:42 that we started.

# 207 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Nothing about that clip that would--

# 208 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to counsel's characterization, fully extended arms. Object to the characterization.

# 209 THE COURT:

Overruled. Mr. Darden.

# 210 MR. DARDEN:

I'll withdraw the question. Continue, please.

# 211 THE COURT:

Hold it. Hold it a second. Hold it. Cut the audio.

# 212 MR. DARDEN:

It's the audio portion we're interested in, your Honor.

# 213 THE COURT:

It's already been played three times now. Proceed.

# 214 MR. DARDEN:

Not with this witness. I have questions about the audio portion.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Richard Walsh

I believe it was something to the effect that, he said, 'It's like--it's like Sunday,' or, 'Just like game day,' or something like that, referring to the days when he played football.

The prosecution's key point: Simpson himself said he could overcome physical limitations and perform when the moment demanded it — an analogy that cuts directly to capability on the night of the murders.

Richard Walsh

He was dead set on stopping after the first round, and that's when he made that comment.

Establishes that the 'game day' remark came at a moment of genuine exhaustion, making it more credible and more damaging.

Richard Walsh

Towards the end of the day... Two men behind me, young men in their 30's, they were beat. I mean they were gone. And they're in better shape, at least in my opinion, than OJ was... somehow, when 'Action' was said, he somehow dug down and was able to pull it out.

Walsh's own words frame Simpson as a 'gamer' who could summon effort beyond expectation — devastating for the defense's arthritis/disability narrative.

Christopher Darden

He got up for game day, right? He got up for the challenge?

Darden hammers the football metaphor home, reframing the murders as Simpson's ultimate 'game day.'

Richard Walsh

It takes a lot more aerobic-- Conditioning. Tremendous amount. Tremendous.

Walsh confirms that Simpson was simultaneously exercising and commentating for up to 15 hours — demonstrating sustained physical exertion.

Evidence (2)

People's 521

Playboy exercise video featuring OJ Simpson, directed by Walsh; multiple out-take segments played at specific timecodes (16:42:44, 15:49:46, 15:48:45, 16:45:38, 16:44:27)

played repeatedly in court; Walsh narrates Simpson's movements in real time

Informal

Transcript of Walsh's recorded interview with prosecution investigator Dana Thompson on March 22, 1995

used to refresh Walsh's recollection about Simpson's 'game day' comments

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Richard Walsh

Darden extracts the 'game day' narrative step by step: Walsh initially gives a vague paraphrase, Darden shows him the Thompson interview transcript, and then walks him through each element — physical wreck during the week, always able to play on Sunday, got up for the challenge.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Cochran objects on hearsay grounds to Walsh recounting Simpson's statements. Ito holds a sidebar and then allows it, with Darden arguing the statements aren't offered for truth but as party admissions.

procedural

Christopher Darden•Richard Walsh

Darden asks if Walsh looked winded during the push-up clip. Walsh fires back: 'He was dreaming. I wasn't -- no.' The moment is lightly comic but Walsh quickly pivots to frame it as Simpson playing along for the camera.

light

Light Moments (2)

Richard Walsh

Walsh explains Playboy hired him not for his physique but because he looked attainable — 'Though you're in shape, you have the appearance that people could look at you and say, geez, I could look like that' — calling it 'kind of a back-handed compliment.'

Richard Walsh

Walsh describes the video dynamic: 'I would be the play-by-play man, and then he would be the color commentator. He throws in the tidbits and I throw in the foundation types.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Richard Walsh

prior recorded statement

Darden uses the March 22, 1995 Thompson interview transcript to pin down Walsh's recollection of Simpson's 'game day' quote and the NFL wreck-during-the-week comments, after Walsh hedged on exact wording.

Witness Demeanor

Walsh is affable, discursive, and occasionally self-deprecating; he answers questions cooperatively but tends to elaborate beyond what is asked

At one point finishes Darden's sentence: 'It takes a lot more aerobic-- Conditioning.'

Pushes back mildly when Darden implies Walsh looked winded: 'He was dreaming'

Objections

7 objections (1 sustained, 6 overruled)

Proceeding 6915 • 214 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103