Cross-examination of Richard Walsh (part 1)

📄 Cross-examination of Richard Walsh (part 1) — Wednesday, July 19, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\19\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-RICHARD-W.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 118 of 167

◀ Direct examination of Richard Walsh Jury recess ▶

Witness: Richard Walsh
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 19, 1995 • Utterances: 173

Prosecutor Chris Darden cross-examines Richard Walsh, the fitness instructor who worked with OJ Simpson on a Playboy exercise video. Darden methodically catalogs every physical activity Simpson performed during the long shoot — push-ups, punching motions, trunk twists, bending, standing on toes — to establish that Simpson was physically capable of the murders despite defense claims of physical limitation. Darden also highlights Walsh's tabloid media appearances and lack of formal credentials, and elicits a key admission: that Simpson responded vigorously when challenged and needled.

# 1 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Darden. And, Mr. Darden, we're going to break at a quarter till.

# 2 MR. DARDEN:

I might--I don't have to be finished by then, do I?

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

# 3 MR. DARDEN:

Good afternoon, sir.

# 4 MR. WALSH:

Good afternoon.

# 5 MR. DARDEN:

You've been talking an awful lot about Mr. Simpson in your experience with him during the shooting of that video, haven't you?

# 6 MR. WALSH:

Umm, I have done some--I also--can I continue?

# 7 MR. DARDEN:

Is the answer yes?

# 8 MR. WALSH:

Yes, with an explanation.

# 9 MR. DARDEN:

Well, you've been on Geraldo twice?

# 10 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 11 MR. COCHRAN:

I couldn't hear. What?

# 12 THE COURT:

Geraldo.

# 13 MR. COCHRAN:

No wonder I couldn't hear.

KEY QUOTE

# 14 MR. DARDEN:

The guy back there, Geraldo Rivera, you've been on his show twice?

# 15 MR. WALSH:

Correct. Correct.

# 16 MR. DARDEN:

Someone named Richard Prayger?

# 17 MR. WALSH:

Umm, yes.

# 18 MR. DARDEN:

Inside edition?

# 19 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 20 MR. DARDEN:

American journal?

# 21 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 22 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Any other tabloid television program?

# 23 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 24 MR. DARDEN:

What others?

# 25 MR. WALSH:

I believe extra magazine also, but I need to explain also why.

# 26 MR. DARDEN:

Well, did you get paid going on those shows?

# 27 MR. WALSH:

No. And maybe a--a--like an after--what's it called--union payment, but I have a contract to make appearances to promote the tape. So part of my contract states I have to make 10 appearances to promote the exercise tape.

# 28 MR. DARDEN:

And is this--

# 29 MR. WALSH:

My reason for being on there was to talk about the exercise tape.

# 30 MR. DARDEN:

Is this considered one of those appearances to promote the tape?

# 31 MR. COCHRAN:

Object, your Honor. I object to that.

# 32 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 33 MR. WALSH:

Actually I don't even know if the tape is out anymore. To be honest with you, I'll tell you what happened. Playboy has sold the tape to some other people and I have no idea if the tape is out. I haven't spoke with them for a long time.

What I understand was, the major outlets did not take it. So to the best of my knowledge--and I did have a call the other day where they could get their hands on the tape, and my answer is, I have no idea. So I don't think it's on the market. So you have not seen me on TV for I think--maybe Geraldo was the last time I was on, because that's when the tape switched hands and it never ended up in the markets. So I don't need to go on anymore.

# 34 MR. DARDEN:

And you've also given a number of interviews to journalists, right, news journalists?

# 35 MR. WALSH:

Newspaper? Correct.

# 36 MR. DARDEN:

You gave an interview to the Los Angeles Times?

# 37 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 38 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, this was your first time meeting the Defendant; is that right?

# 39 MR. WALSH:

First time was, yes, early `94.

# 40 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. This was the first time you'd ever worked out with him, that is during the latter part of May 1994?

# 41 MR. WALSH:

No. We worked out in an office in Playboy in Beverly Hills in it's either late March or April. It wasn't a strenuous workout, but it was a--we kind of went through a little bit of what we would be doing.

# 42 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Okay. Now, when you began your testimony today, you said that you weren't an expert, correct?

# 43 MR. WALSH:

I am not an expert.

# 44 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you said an expert would be someone with a Ph.D.?

# 45 MR. WALSH:

Or an Md. Who specializes in the fitness field.

# 46 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Someone like Dr. Huizenga, for instance?

# 47 MR. WALSH:

I think Dr. Huizenga specializes in internal medicine.

# 48 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. So someone who was a team physician for the Los Angeles Raiders wouldn't qualify as an expert in your mind; is that correct?

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

Object. Argumentative. Objection. Argumentative.

# 50 THE COURT:

It's irrelevant.

# 51 MR. DARDEN:

At any event, you don't hold yourself out as an expert, right?

# 52 MR. WALSH:

I do not.

# 53 MR. DARDEN:

You're not a doctor?

# 54 MR. WALSH:

No, I'm not.

# 55 MR. DARDEN:

What degrees do you hold?

# 56 MR. WALSH:

None. I'm just literally a fitness instructor.

KEY QUOTE

# 57 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And prior to your joining Mr. Simpson on this Playboy video, you were on cable?

# 58 MR. WALSH:

I was on cable.

# 59 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And what cable network were you on?

# 60 MR. WALSH:

Prime ticket, prime network across the United States.

# 61 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you were doing a fitness show?

# 62 MR. WALSH:

Exercise--half hour exercise TV show.

# 63 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And is that something that you still do?

# 64 MR. WALSH:

No. It is not on at the moment.

# 65 MR. DARDEN:

You shot the aerobics segment of this video in one day.

# 66 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 67 MR. DARDEN:

And when you say one day, you don't mean just in eight hours, correct?

# 68 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 69 MR. DARDEN:

It actually took you what? 15 hours, 16 hours to shoot this video?

# 70 MR. WALSH:

I don't know the exact time, but it was pretty high. Yeah, it was right up in that area.

# 71 MR. DARDEN:

And Mr. Simpson was present at the beginning of the video?

# 72 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 73 MR. DARDEN:

And he was present at the end; is that correct?

# 74 MR. WALSH:

Yes, he was.

# 75 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you described for us already some of his limitations, correct?

# 76 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 77 MR. DARDEN:

And when you saw Mr. Simpson, you recognized those limitations, right? You recognized the fact that he had some limitations, right?

# 78 MR. WALSH:

When I saw him--

# 79 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Well, when you saw him on the 27th or 26th rather.

# 80 MR. WALSH:

25th, the day of the shooting?

# 81 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

# 82 MR. WALSH:

Right. Sure. I knew of his limitations by that point.

# 83 MR. DARDEN:

And you were concerned that he might not be able to make it through the video?

# 84 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 85 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. He might not be able to make it through the shooting, right?

# 86 MR. WALSH:

Yeah. In fact, I somewhat prepared for that.

# 87 MR. DARDEN:

But he did make it, didn't he?

# 88 MR. WALSH:

Yes, he did.

# 89 MR. DARDEN:

You were surprised that he made it, correct?

# 90 MR. WALSH:

Towards the end of the day, I wasn't anymore.

# 91 MR. DARDEN:

He convinced you that he could do it as the day went on; is that correct?

# 92 MR. WALSH:

He convinced me that he would be able to do it, correct.

# 93 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, throughout the day, you--you and the Defendant did a number of exercises, right?

# 94 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 95 MR. DARDEN:

Did push-ups?

# 96 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 97 MR. DARDEN:

You saw the Defendant make punching motions?

# 98 MR. WALSH:

Yes, I did.

# 99 MR. DARDEN:

And what do you call this thing where you twist your trunk all the way around?

# 100 MR. WALSH:

That would just be like a lower back abdominal strengthening.

# 101 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. He did that. He--what other kinds of exercises did the Defendant do that day?

# 102 MR. WALSH:

We did a lot of, you know, movements as you saw, forward and backward movements, lateral movements. We did bending from the waist, bending from the knees. We did shoulder movements. We did lats and backs. We did some bicep curls. We really covered--when you write a tape, something the doctor insisted that I put in the tape is you train balance. And all that simply means is, if we're going to work the bicep, we have to work the tricep. If we're going to work the quad, you have to work the hamstring. You have to train a joint balance. Otherwise, you'd have a discrepancy in strength and flexibility about the joint. So there are many times when I'd write something down and we would tape me doing it, send it to the doctor, and he would send it back with suggestions and corrections and so forth. So we did every muscle, not every muscle for the body, but we did cover the body pretty much from head to toe at entry level position.

# 103 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And Mr. Simpson did all of that?

# 104 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 105 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, Mr. Simpson was able to lift his arms over his head, correct?

# 106 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 107 MR. DARDEN:

He was able to lift his body up on his toes and on his hands and do push-ups, correct?

# 108 MR. WALSH:

Correct.

# 109 MR. DARDEN:

He was able to stand on his toes?

# 110 MR. WALSH:

Right. We have a point where we--it's a slow movement up and down because it activates the calf and Achilles tendon, which is a common injury in running and jogging and exercise.

# 111 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And despite his limitations, he was able--able to extend his legs in sort of a runner's stance?

# 112 MR. WALSH:

Like the hamstring--the calf stretch and the hamstring stretch, yes.

# 113 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And he was able to bend his knees?

# 114 MR. WALSH:

Sure.

# 115 MR. DARDEN:

In a standing position, he was able to bend his knees?

# 116 MR. WALSH:

Right. From the one you saw, the standing hamstring stretch.

# 117 MR. DARDEN:

So he just did a number of exercises that day, right?

# 118 MR. WALSH:

We did quite a few as you saw on the tape.

# 119 MR. DARDEN:

Now, there was a point around 7:00 or 8:00 clock that night when you became especially concerned as to whether or not the Defendant could complete the video; is that correct?

# 120 MR. WALSH:

One part in particular when we restarted after that two-hour break.

# 121 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you were concerned at that time that he might not finish, right?

# 122 MR. WALSH:

It was--it was put to me that--I wanted to do another run through in each area.

# 123 MR. DARDEN:

All right. So the answer is yes to my question?

# 124 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 125 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you did something to help motivate the Defendant; is that correct?

# 126 MR. WALSH:

Yeah. Yes, I did.

# 127 MR. DARDEN:

To get him going, right? You issued a challenge?

# 128 MR. WALSH:

Yes, I did.

# 129 MR. DARDEN:

You helped him set a goal, right?

# 130 MR. WALSH:

You bet.

# 131 MR. DARDEN:

And that's because you figured in your own mind, if you could help him set a goal, issue a challenge, he would try to--he would try to reach that goal, right?

# 132 MR. WALSH:

Yes, I did.

# 133 MR. DARDEN:

You said something to the Defendant, didn't you?

# 134 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 135 MR. DARDEN:

What did you say to him?

# 136 MR. WALSH:

I don't know exactly the word, but I said something to the effect that--well, let me start by saying this. We started to--we wanted to do all three rounds. And OJ said, "Listen, I'm good for one round. I've been sitting for a couple of hours."

# 137 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. But tell me what you said.

# 138 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, can he finish the answer, respond to the question?

# 139 THE COURT:

No. It's nonresponsive though.

# 140 MR. DARDEN:

What did you say to the Defendant to motivate him and to help him set a goal?

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

I object as hearsay, your Honor.

# 142 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 143 MR. DARDEN:

State of mind, your Honor. Explains subsequent conduct.

# 144 MR. COCHRAN:

Hearsay, your Honor.

# 145 THE COURT:

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, this next question and answer is limited in preface only to explain the subsequent conduct, not for the truth of what was said.

# 146 MR. DARDEN:

What did you say to the Defendant to motivate him and to help him set a goal?

# 147 MR. WALSH:

Okay. After the first round, we got to push-ups. I kept--I got back on my feet. I started walking and I looked at him and I said something to the effect that--again, I don't know the exact words, but something to the effect that, "Geez, too bad you're not tough enough to make it through this." And I just kept walking or something along that lines to try to motivate him or kind of tease him a little bit that, you know, "I'm plenty strong enough to keep going. It's too bad you're not," and--

# 148 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And so what did the Defendant say after you teased him a little bit?

# 149 MR. WALSH:

He kind of looked at me and something to the effect, he said something like, "Let's go. Let's do it," something along those lines. Again, I don't know the exact words.

KEY QUOTE

# 150 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you'd already been exercising something like 12 hours; is that correct?

# 151 MR. WALSH:

That's no problem for me. Yes.

# 152 MR. DARDEN:

You understand that in this case, we're concerned as to what happened within a matter of several seconds?

# 153 MR. COCHRAN:

I object to the form of that question, your Honor. Irrelevant and immaterial.

# 154 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 155 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. So the Defendant said something like or words to the effect of, "Let's go, let's go, come on," right?

# 156 MR. COCHRAN:

That misstates--misstates.

# 157 THE COURT:

The jury heard what the statement was.

# 158 MR. DARDEN:

All right. And did you and the Defendant again begin exercising shortly thereafter?

# 159 MR. WALSH:

Right.

# 160 MR. DARDEN:

And during the exercise, did you continue to say things to the Defendant?

# 161 MR. WALSH:

I kind of needled--

# 162 MR. DARDEN:

You can answer that yes or no.

# 163 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 164 MR. DARDEN:

Did you needle him?

# 165 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 166 MR. DARDEN:

Did you challenge him?

# 167 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 168 MR. DARDEN:

And did he respond to those challenges?

# 169 MR. WALSH:

Yes.

# 170 MR. DARDEN:

And isn't it true that the more you needled this Defendant and challenged this Defendant, the more he was fine?

KEY QUOTE

# 171 MR. WALSH:

Yes. But I need to explain something about that. When you're--when you're hosting a show or an exercise tape like this, there has to be a certain amount of energy and kind of playing along with the audience and the people, and that's very important. That's part of every show and every activity that I'm involved--everything I host is kind of like, you know, you kind of lead them along, you gear them along, you motivate them. You know, it's like a coach sitting there saying, "Come on, you can do it," things along those lines. So yes, the answer to your question is correct. But because OJ and I were the only two speaking people in the tape, it was important that I kind of direct things at him. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to turn to one of the people behind me whose names you don't know or hear about and start talking with him.

# 172 MR. DARDEN:

Is this a good time to break, your Honor?

# 173 THE COURT:

It is. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take our mid-afternoon break. Remember all my admonitions to you. We'll back in session at 3 o'clock. Mr. Walsh, you can step down. Come back in 10 minutes.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Richard Walsh

None. I'm just literally a fitness instructor.

Darden successfully undercuts Walsh's authority as a witness on Simpson's physical condition by getting him to disavow any expert status.

Richard Walsh

I said something to the effect that, 'Geez, too bad you're not tough enough to make it through this.' And I just kept walking or something along that lines to try to motivate him.

Reveals Simpson was capable of completing a grueling 15+ hour shoot when mentally engaged — undercutting the defense narrative of a debilitated man.

Christopher Darden

And isn't it true that the more you needled this Defendant and challenged this Defendant, the more he was fine?

Darden's central point: Simpson's physical limitations were mental/motivational, not structural — implying he could have committed the murders.

Richard Walsh

He kind of looked at me and something to the effect, he said something like, 'Let's go. Let's do it,' something along those lines.

Simpson's own words in response to a challenge undermine the defense picture of a man too physically broken to act violently.

Johnnie Cochran

No wonder I couldn't hear.

Cochran's deadpan reaction upon learning Walsh had appeared on Geraldo Rivera's show — a rare light moment signaling that even the defense viewed Walsh's media tour with some contempt.

Evidence (1)

Informal

Playboy exercise video featuring OJ Simpson, shot in late May 1994

discussed — specific exercises referenced throughout cross-examination

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Richard Walsh

Darden systematically lists every physical action Simpson performed on video — lifting arms overhead, push-ups, standing on toes, punching motions, trunk twists, bending at the knee — getting Walsh to confirm each one. The cumulative effect builds a picture of a physically capable man.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Richard Walsh•Johnnie Cochran

Darden attempts to get Walsh to describe what he said to motivate Simpson. Cochran objects on hearsay grounds; Ito sustains but allows it in for limited purpose (explaining subsequent conduct, not truth of statement). Walsh then recounts taunting Simpson: 'too bad you're not tough enough.'

revealing

Christopher Darden•Richard Walsh

Darden establishes Walsh appeared on Geraldo, Richard Prayger, Inside Edition, American Journal, Extra, and gave newspaper interviews including to the LA Times — framing Walsh as a publicity-seeking witness with a contractual obligation to promote the video.

strategic

Light Moments (2)

Johnnie Cochran

Cochran says he couldn't hear Darden's question; Ito tells him it was 'Geraldo'; Cochran replies 'No wonder I couldn't hear.'

Richard Walsh

Walsh volunteers he has no degrees: 'None. I'm just literally a fitness instructor.' — delivered matter-of-factly.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Richard Walsh

bias / financial interest

Darden establishes Walsh had a contractual obligation to make 10 media appearances to promote the Playboy exercise tape and had appeared on multiple tabloid TV programs, suggesting his testimony is colored by his stake in the video's promotion.

⚔ Richard Walsh

lack of expertise

Darden gets Walsh to concede he holds no degrees, is not a doctor, and does not consider himself an expert — undermining the evidentiary weight of his opinions about Simpson's physical condition.

Objections

8 objections (2 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 6939 • 173 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103