Cross-examination of John Meraz (part 4)

📄 Cross-examination of John Meraz (part 4) — Wednesday, July 19, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\19\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-JOHN-MERA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 118 of 167

◀ Sidebar: witness credibility and bias Recess ▶

Witness: John Meraz
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 19, 1995 • Utterances: 199

Marcia Clark continues cross-examining John Meraz, a former Viertel's OPG employee, pressing him on his removal of credit card receipts from OJ Simpson's Bronco. Clark establishes that the receipts were dry-cleaning vouchers for a tuxedo and a woman's dress paid with a Visa card in March 1994, that Meraz read them, that he had no permission to take them, and that he admits this constitutes tampering with evidence. Clark closes by suggesting Meraz's testimony may be motivated by Simpson choosing not to press theft charges against him.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

# 2 THE COURT:

All right. Miss Clark, you get to ask that one last question and then move on.

# 3 MS. CLARK:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 4 (Brief pause.)

# 5 MS. CLARK:

All right. So you discussed retaining attorneys with the Defense investigators back in August of 1994, correct?

# 6 MR. MERAZ:

Had I discussed this with the attorneys that came over to the house? Are you asking me that or what?

# 7 MS. CLARK:

No. I'm asking you, you indicated that your first meeting with the Defense in this case was August 28th, 1994, when investigators for the Defense went to your house, correct?

# 8 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 9 MS. CLARK:

And when they went to your house one of the things you discussed is your hiring lawyers to represent you in your wrongful termination suit against Viertel's?

# 10 MR. MERAZ:

I was trying to get some lawyers.

# 11 MS. CLARK:

Right. And they discussed that matter with you, correct?

# 12 MR. MERAZ:

No, they did not discuss that.

# 13 MS. CLARK:

Let me read your testimony back to you, sir. Here is my question to you. I am reading it from the computer. "Do you recall discussing that with the Defense investigators, sir? "Answer: I might have with the investigators discussed it because I didn't have a lawyer. I was on the verge of getting lawyers then."

# 14 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct. That's correct.

# 15 MS. CLARK:

All right. So you discussed the matter with the Defense investigators in this case, correct?

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

That is not what he is saying, your Honor. Misstates--

# 17 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 18 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 19 MS. CLARK:

And after that discussion you hired some lawyers, correct?

# 20 MR. MERAZ:

After that, yes.

# 21 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And then you appeared in court to testify at a pretrial hearing in this matter, correct?

# 22 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 23 MS. CLARK:

And at that hearing you had three lawyers in court representing you; isn't that right?

# 24 MR. MERAZ:

Well, they are partners.

# 25 MS. CLARK:

There were three of them?

# 26 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 27 MS. CLARK:

And these are two of the three in court today here, correct?

# 28 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 29 MS. CLARK:

Now, you did not discuss the subject matter of who to hire to represent with you Mr. Cochran or Mr. Shapiro, did you?

# 30 MR. MERAZ:

I did not.

# 31 MS. CLARK:

May I have a moment, your Honor?

# 32 (Brief pause.)

# 33 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 34 MS. CLARK:

May I have a moment, your Honor? I have a photograph that I would like to mark.

# 35 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

# 36 MS. CLARK:

Your Honor, People's next in order, 5--

# 37 THE COURT:

32.

# 38 MS. CLARK:

--32, thank you.

# 39 (Peo's 532 for id = photograph)

# 40 MS. CLARK:

Sir, I'm going to show you a photograph, People's 532. Do you recognize what you see there?

# 41 MR. MERAZ:

I see a white Bronco.

# 42 MS. CLARK:

Right. Does that look like the same white Bronco that belonged to the Defendant that you towed on June the 15th?

# 43 MR. MERAZ:

It is a white Bronco.

# 44 MS. CLARK:

If you can see the license plate would that help you to identify it?

# 45 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 46 MS. CLARK:

All right. Let's zoom in.

# 47 MS. CLARK:

Do you see the license plate, sir?

# 48 (No audible response.)

# 49 MS. CLARK:

May the record reflect that the witness has removed the impound sheet to compare the license plate number.

# 50 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 51 MS. CLARK:

Are they the same?

# 52 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 53 MS. CLARK:

Does that Bronco appear to be in the same condition as when you saw it on June the 15th?

# 54 (No audible response.)

# 55 MS. CLARK:

And 17th?

# 56 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question based upon what this picture is. That is not fair.

# 57 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 58 MR. MERAZ:

You are asking me if it is--

# 59 MS. CLARK:

Yeah. Does that appear to be in the same condition as when you saw it on June 15th and June 17th?

# 60 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection, your Honor. You can't see the whole car.

# 61 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 62 MR. MERAZ:

I--

# 63 MS. CLARK:

From what you can see?

# 64 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 65 MS. CLARK:

And you are aware he--do you know when this photograph was taken?

# 66 MR. MERAZ:

I have no idea. It looks like some other yard. It is not Viertel's yard.

# 67 MS. CLARK:

Have you ever heard of keystone?

# 68 MR. MERAZ:

I have heard of them, yes.

# 69 MS. CLARK:

Are you aware that this photograph was taken at the keystone impound yard in August of 1994?

# 70 MR. MERAZ:

I am not aware of that, no.

# 71 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 72 MS. CLARK:

All right, sir. Let me ask you something. As an OPG, this is an official police garage, you have a certain responsibility towards the vehicles that you are storing, correct?

# 73 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 74 MS. CLARK:

And one of those responsibilities is to make sure that evidence is not disturbed; isn't that correct?

# 75 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 76 MS. CLARK:

And any car that may have been used in a crime is itself evidence; isn't that correct?

# 77 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that question, your Honor. Assumes a fact not in evidence.

# 78 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 79 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 80 MS. CLARK:

That means everything inside that car is evidence as well; isn't that correct?

# 81 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 82 MS. CLARK:

And it is your job as an employee for an OPG not to disturb evidence; isn't that right?

# 83 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 84 MS. CLARK:

And when you removed those receipts from the door of the Bronco, you were tampering with evidence; isn't that right?

KEY QUOTE

# 85 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question, your Honor. I object. It is argumentative.

# 86 THE COURT:

Overruled, overruled.

# 87 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 88 MS. CLARK:

Now, that T-2 area that we discussed earlier, the enclosed area, that is the secure area of the yard, correct?

# 89 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 90 MS. CLARK:

And by "Secure" that means that members of the public cannot just walk into it, correct?

# 91 MR. MERAZ:

Unless they have to go to the bathroom, there is a facility in there. A lot of times they were let in to go in there.

# 92 MS. CLARK:

But that means--but first a member of the public who was going into Viertel's has to go through--has to show their identification at a window; isn't that right?

# 93 MR. MERAZ:

A lot of time a lot of them--they drive in, come in through the side door.

# 94 MS. CLARK:

And then someone has to hit them in, though, don't they?

# 95 MR. COCHRAN:

Can he finish his answer?

# 96 THE COURT:

Yes, he is entitled.

# 97 MS. CLARK:

I'm sorry, I do not mean to cut off your answer.

# 98 MS. CLARK:

What were you saying?

# 99 MR. MERAZ:

A lot of time they would honk their horn. If it was an unmarked police car, they would honk. If a driver was coming in, they would honk their horn to come in. A lot of the times a lot of the public would do the same thing, right, right.

# 100 MS. CLARK:

Where would they drive into?

# 101 MR. MERAZ:

T-3.

# 102 MS. CLARK:

I'm not talking about T-3.

# 103 MR. MERAZ:

You are talking about T-2?

# 104 MS. CLARK:

That's right.

# 105 MR. MERAZ:

Unless the dispatcher there at the desk, if he knew the individual coming in, he would open up the cure.

# 106 MS. CLARK:

Otherwise he doesn't; isn't that correct?

# 107 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 108 MS. CLARK:

You have to--if he doesn't know you, as a member of law enforcement or some other person that he knows is to be permitted to go into that area, you have to show identification; isn't this right?

# 109 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question, some other--speculation as to what the dispatcher knows.

# 110 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 111 MS. CLARK:

Unless someone is a police officer wearing a uniform with a badge, the people that walk up to the area of T-2 have to show identification to get in; isn't that right?

# 112 MR. MERAZ:

A lot of time, yes.

# 113 MS. CLARK:

And they have to have authorization to get in; isn't that right?

# 114 MR. MERAZ:

You want to rephrase that over again to me, please?

# 115 MS. CLARK:

If a member--if I walk up to that--that area that allows for entry into T-2 and I just say I just want to walk in, they are not just going to let me in, are they, Mr. Meraz?

# 116 MR. MERAZ:

No.

# 117 MS. CLARK:

I have to have a good reason? I have to have some kind of authorization to get in; isn't this right?

# 118 MR. MERAZ:

This is true.

# 119 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 120 MS. CLARK:

Now, is it your testimony that that the receipts that you took out of the side door of the Bronco were laundry dry cleaning receipts?

# 121 MR. MERAZ:

They were vouchers from a visa. They weren't laundry. They were--evidently they had gone to the cleaners and this is what they paid on.

# 122 MS. CLARK:

And they used a visa to pay; is that right?

# 123 MR. MERAZ:

Yes, yes.

# 124 MS. CLARK:

And so you actually read these receipts then, didn't you?

# 125 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 126 MS. CLARK:

And it showed that they paid--that Mr. And Mrs. Simpson paid for dry cleaning using a visa voucher?

# 127 MR. MERAZ:

Using--

# 128 MS. CLARK:

Excuse me. A visa card in March of 1994?

# 129 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 130 MS. CLARK:

And do you recall the items of clothing that were being cleaned?

# 131 MR. MERAZ:

One was for a tuxedo and the other one was for a woman's dress. I assume a woman's dress.

KEY QUOTE

# 132 MS. CLARK:

Like a gown?

# 133 MR. MERAZ:

A dress, yes.

# 134 MS. CLARK:

Is there a--there is a laser beam that you cross when you drive into the lot; isn't that true, sir?

# 135 MR. MERAZ:

Yes, T-3.

# 136 MS. CLARK:

So any member of the public that drove in through T-3 would have--would trip that laser beam; isn't that right?

# 137 MR. MERAZ:

Yes and no.

# 138 MS. CLARK:

How no?

# 139 MR. MERAZ:

A lot of times they had it off because the gates were open, because they were moving cars. A lot of the people would walk in without triggering out the laser thing coming through there.

# 140 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Now, as far as T-2 goes, let's point out for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury--do we have a laser light. I'm going to point out an area on this exhibit, sir. Where my light is, isn't that the door that the public would use to walk in to gain admission to T-2?

# 141 MR. MERAZ:

That is the side entrance to Viertel where you go and claim your vehicle.

# 142 THE COURT:

All right. That is the side entrance. Appears to be the southeast corner of the building.

# 143 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

# 144 MR. MERAZ:

On Temple Street.

# 145 MS. CLARK:

Thank you, sir. Maybe we can circle that area and do a printout.

# 146 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 147 MS. CLARK:

All right, sir. Now, you admit to us today--admitted to us today that you stole something from the Defendant's car, didn't you?

# 148 MR. MERAZ:

I didn't steal.

# 149 MS. CLARK:

You took those receipts out of the Defendant's car, didn't you?

# 150 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 151 MS. CLARK:

Now, you understand, sir, that taking--did anyone give you permission to take those receipts out of the Defendant's car?

# 152 MR. MERAZ:

No.

# 153 MS. CLARK:

And taking something without permission is theft, isn't it, sir?

# 154 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object to the form of the question.

# 155 THE COURT:

Sustained, sustained.

# 156 MS. CLARK:

Are you aware that taking something without permission is theft?

# 157 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question.

# 158 THE COURT:

Sustained. Missing a few elements.

# 159 MS. CLARK:

Okay.

# 160 MS. CLARK:

Are you aware, sir, that taking something out of a car without permission and keeping it is theft?

# 161 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of that, your Honor.

# 162 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 163 MR. COCHRAN:

Improper statement of the law.

# 164 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 165 MS. CLARK:

Can I get the penal code?

# 166 MS. CLARK:

What is your understanding of stealing, Mr. Meraz?

# 167 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I object. This is irrelevant and immaterial.

# 168 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 169 MR. MERAZ:

My opinion of stealing?

# 170 MS. CLARK:

Yeah. What do you think stealing is?

# 171 MR. MERAZ:

If I took something that belonged to you and kept it and not returned it, that is stealing.

KEY QUOTE

# 172 MS. CLARK:

All right. And that would be a crime; isn't that right?

# 173 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 174 MS. CLARK:

Now, someone, Mr. Meraz, took those credit card receipts out of Mr. Simpson's car; isn't that right, without permission?

# 175 MR. MERAZ:

Somebody walked out with them without permission.

# 176 MS. CLARK:

Answer my question, Mr. Meraz.

# 177 MR. COCHRAN:

Just a moment. I object.

# 178 THE COURT:

Hold on. Hold on. That is not an appropriate way to ask a question. Ask your next question.

# 179 MS. CLARK:

My question to you, Mr. Meraz, is you took the credit card receipts out of the side pocket of Mr. Simpson's Bronco on June 15th; isn't that correct?

# 180 MR. MERAZ:

This is true.

# 181 MS. CLARK:

And you did that without his permission; isn't that correct?

# 182 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 183 MS. CLARK:

Now, if, Mr. Meraz--now you claim today that you put them back; isn't that right?

# 184 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question, "Claimed today."

# 185 THE COURT:

Rephrase the question.

# 186 MS. CLARK:

You have told us that you put those credit card receipts back; isn't that right?

# 187 MR. MERAZ:

I have always claimed that.

# 188 MS. CLARK:

I understand.

# 189 MR. MERAZ:

Yes. That is my statement, yes.

# 190 MS. CLARK:

But those credit card receipts never were found again; isn't that right?

# 191 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 192 MS. CLARK:

And you have never been charged--now, Mr. Simpson is the victim of that theft; isn't that right?

# 193 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 194 MS. CLARK:

Isn't he?

# 195 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 196 MS. CLARK:

And you have never been charged with the crime of theft for taking those receipts out of the Bronco, have you?

# 197 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 198 MS. CLARK:

Sir, is it your understanding that the--that the Defendant declined to bring charges against you so you would come in here and testify?

# 199 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection, your Honor.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

John Meraz

If I took something that belonged to you and kept it and not returned it, that is stealing.

Meraz unwittingly provides Clark with the exact definition she needs to frame his actions as theft — moments before she forces him to admit he did exactly that.

Marcia Clark

And when you removed those receipts from the door of the Bronco, you were tampering with evidence; isn't that right?

Clark gets a clean, unambiguous admission of evidence tampering from a defense witness.

Marcia Clark

Sir, is it your understanding that the Defendant declined to bring charges against you so you would come in here and testify?

The most explosive moment of the examination — Clark implies a quid pro quo arrangement between Meraz and the defense, though Cochran objects before an answer is given.

John Meraz

One was for a tuxedo and the other one was for a woman's dress. I assume a woman's dress.

Meraz confirms he actually read the receipts, undermining any claim he handled them innocently, and the contents (tuxedo, woman's dress) add detail to the Simpson household's activities before the murders.

Evidence (2)

People's 532

Photograph of OJ Simpson's white Ford Bronco, taken at the Keystone impound yard in August 1994

Introduced and shown to witness to confirm it is the same vehicle he towed on June 15th; license plate verified against impound sheet

Informal

Credit card receipts (Visa dry-cleaning vouchers for a tuxedo and a woman's dress, March 1994) removed by Meraz from the Bronco's door pocket

Discussed extensively; Meraz admits taking them without permission and reading them; receipts were never subsequently found

Notable Exchanges (3)

Marcia Clark•John Meraz•Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Clark attempts three separate formulations of a theft question and is sustained each time on grounds of improper statement of law, eventually maneuvering Meraz into defining theft himself before applying it to his own conduct.

strategic

Marcia Clark•John Meraz

Clark establishes that the T-2 secure area of Viertel's required authorization for entry, methodically closing off defense theories about unauthorized outside access to the Bronco.

procedural

Marcia Clark•John Meraz

Clark closes by asking whether Simpson declined to press theft charges in exchange for Meraz's testimony — a direct credibility attack on the witness's motive to testify for the defense.

devastating

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito

Ito helpfully supplies the exhibit number ('32') when Clark trails off mid-sentence.

John Meraz

Meraz, when asked about the condition of the Bronco in the photo, notes unprompted: 'It looks like some other yard. It is not Viertel's yard.' — deflecting while simultaneously identifying the location.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ John Meraz

Prior inconsistent statement / admission

Clark reads Meraz's own prior testimony back to him to establish that he did discuss retaining lawyers with Defense investigators, contradicting his initial denial.

⚔ John Meraz

Bias / implied deal with defense

Clark suggests Meraz is a friendly defense witness because Simpson chose not to press theft charges against him for taking the receipts — implying his testimony is motivated by gratitude or arrangement.

⚔ John Meraz

Admission of crime

Clark walks Meraz through his own definition of stealing, then applies it to his admitted conduct of removing and not returning the credit card receipts from the Bronco without permission.

Witness Demeanor

(No audible response) — twice when asked about the Bronco photograph, suggesting hesitation or uncertainty before answering

Objections

13 objections (5 sustained, 7 overruled)

Proceeding 6929 • 199 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103