Cross-examination of John Meraz (part 3)

📄 Cross-examination of John Meraz (part 3) — Wednesday, July 19, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\19\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-JOHN-MERA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 118 of 167

◀ Sidebar: dome light admissibility Sidebar: witness credibility and bias ▶

Witness: John Meraz
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, July 19, 1995 • Utterances: 169

Marcia Clark continued her cross-examination of John Meraz, an employee at Viertel's storage facility where the Bronco was held. Clark focused on two main lines of attack: Meraz's claimed inability to recall whether the dome light came on when he opened the Bronco (relevant to whether the light cover and bulb were removed to prevent illumination of blood evidence), and a more damaging line suggesting the Defense helped Meraz find his personal attorneys — an allegation that triggered an angry objection from Cochran and ended the session at sidebar.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court:)

# 2 THE COURT:

All right. Thank you, counsel. Miss Clark.

# 3 MS. CLARK:

Okay.

# 4 MS. CLARK:

Sir, let me ask you a question about--you indicated you did not notice whether the dome light cover and lightbulb was missing from the interior of the Bronco when you saw it on June the 15th, correct?

# 5 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 6 MS. CLARK:

And I take it that when you went back to the Bronco on June the 17th with Mr. Viertel and Mr. Jones, you also made no effort to examine the interior of the Bronco to see whether or not the dome light cover and lightbulb were missing correct?

# 7 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 8 MS. CLARK:

Nevertheless, when you opened the car door this light came on, correct?

# 9 MR. COCHRAN:

Assumes a fact not in evidence, your Honor.

# 10 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 11 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the form of the question.

# 12 MR. MERAZ:

I don't know if a light came on or not. I don't know.

# 13 MS. CLARK:

Well, you opened that car door three different times on June the 15th; is that right?

# 14 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 15 MS. CLARK:

And you do not recall whether or not a light came on when you opened the door?

# 16 MR. MERAZ:

I don't recall.

# 17 MS. CLARK:

Sir, are you aware that this Bronco has no manual control for the interior dome light so that if you want to make sure it doesn't go on when you open the door you have to take out the lightbulb?

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to the question.

# 19 THE COURT:

Sustained, sustained, sustained.

# 20 MS. CLARK:

Are you aware of how the interior lightbulb of the Bronco works, sir?

# 21 MR. MERAZ:

Never driven a Bronco.

# 22 MS. CLARK:

And you made no particular effort to see how this one operated, correct?

# 23 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered, your Honor.

# 24 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 25 MR. MERAZ:

No keys.

# 26 MS. CLARK:

And you never did have any keys for that Bronco, correct?

# 27 MR. MERAZ:

As far as I know there was no keys.

# 28 MS. CLARK:

Now, when you saw the Bronco inside the T-2 area, that is an enclosed area, correct?

# 29 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 30 MS. CLARK:

That is interior, correct?

# 31 MR. MERAZ:

Building.

# 32 MS. CLARK:

And on--okay. The first time you went into the Bronco at Viertel's it was in T-3; is that right?

# 33 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 34 MS. CLARK:

And the second time you went into the Bronco at Viertel's it was in T-2, correct?

# 35 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 36 MS. CLARK:

And the third time that you went to the Bronco was with Mr. Viertel and Mr. Jones inside T-2 as well, correct?

# 37 (No audible response.)

# 38 MS. CLARK:

Or was that the fourth time?

# 39 MR. MERAZ:

That was the fourth time.

# 40 MS. CLARK:

So at least two of the three times that you went into the Bronco at Viertel's it was an inside enclosed area; isn't that right?

# 41 MR. MERAZ:

Three of the times, yes, or two of the times.

# 42 MS. CLARK:

Yeah. There were three times at Viertel's that you went into the Bronco?

# 43 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 44 MS. CLARK:

Actually, you went into the Bronco the first time in T-3, correct?

# 45 MR. MERAZ:

Right.

# 46 THE COURT:

Excuse me, counsel. Wait, wait, wait. Mr. Cochran did start off the examination first time print shed, so let's not get our numbers mixed up here.

# 47 MS. CLARK:

Right.

# 48 MS. CLARK:

Okay. When you went into the Bronco in the print shed, you had pulled it outside already, correct?

# 49 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 50 MS. CLARK:

All right. Now, when you got to Viertel's you went into it again at T-3?

# 51 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 52 MS. CLARK:

And then when you came--that is when you took the receipts out of the Bronco?

# 53 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 54 MS. CLARK:

And then when you came back from your call you went back to the Bronco when it was already in T-2; is that right?

# 55 MR. MERAZ:

That's right.

# 56 MS. CLARK:

And at that point it was your testimony that you went back to the Bronco when it was inside T-2 to return the receipts; is that right?

# 57 MR. MERAZ:

That's right.

# 58 MS. CLARK:

And you had to make sure that you had returned the receipts to the same place you took them from, correct?

# 59 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 60 MS. CLARK:

And so you opened the door and you put them back in the side pocket; is that right?

# 61 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 62 MS. CLARK:

And you don't remember whether or not there was a light that illuminated the interior of the car or not?

# 63 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered, your Honor.

# 64 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 65 MR. MERAZ:

I wasn't looking for a light.

KEY QUOTE

# 66 MS. CLARK:

You weren't looking for blood either, were you, sir? You were looking for receipts?

# 67 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered, your Honor.

# 68 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 69 MR. MERAZ:

The press had stated earlier that there was blood all over this vehicle and I was curious.

KEY QUOTE

# 70 MS. CLARK:

So you were making a careful inspection for blood?

# 71 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered.

# 72 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 73 MR. MERAZ:

Me and the other employees that were there.

# 74 MS. CLARK:

But you didn't see any of the blood I showed you in the photographs, correct?

# 75 MR. MERAZ:

No, I didn't see that, correct.

# 76 MS. CLARK:

You are aware that Officer Thompson testified that he saw blood in the Bronco, correct?

# 77 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection, your Honor.

KEY QUOTE

# 78 THE COURT:

Sustained, sustained, sustained.

# 79 MS. CLARK:

Have you been following this trial on television, sir?

# 80 MR. MERAZ:

I look at it, yes.

# 81 MS. CLARK:

And you have been following it since the trial began in January; isn't that right?

# 82 MR. MERAZ:

Off and on, yes.

# 83 MS. CLARK:

And you have seen other witnesses whose testimony has dealt with the appearance of the interior of the Bronco, haven't you?

# 84 MR. MERAZ:

Not all the time, no.

# 85 MS. CLARK:

Some of them?

# 86 MR. MERAZ:

Some of them.

# 87 MS. CLARK:

How about the officers who testified yesterday, Officer Thompson who saw the interior of the Bronco?

# 88 MR. COCHRAN:

Just a moment. I object to this, your Honor.

# 89 THE COURT:

Sustained, sustained. It is compound.

# 90 MS. CLARK:

Did you see the testimony of Officer Thompson who testified in this courtroom yesterday?

# 91 MR. MERAZ:

No, I didn't.

# 92 MS. CLARK:

Did you see Officer Thompson in this court building yesterday?

# 93 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 94 MS. CLARK:

And did you discuss with him the nature of your testimony?

# 95 MR. MERAZ:

No.

# 96 MS. CLARK:

Did you hear what he had to say about his testimony?

# 97 MR. MERAZ:

Until after I had testified.

# 98 MS. CLARK:

And after you testified--when after you testified yesterday?

# 99 MR. MERAZ:

It was on the news.

# 100 MS. CLARK:

And you watched it on the news, didn't you?

# 101 MR. MERAZ:

Basically it was just a bit. Not all of it; just a bit.

# 102 MS. CLARK:

On the news it told--

# 103 MR. COCHRAN:

Just a moment, your Honor. I object. That is hearsay.

# 104 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 105 THE COURT:

I think the jury recollects what was testified to yesterday. Let's move on.

# 106 MS. CLARK:

All right. Now, those two receipts that you talk about, do you recall testifying to the dates of those receipts, sir?

# 107 MR. MERAZ:

Not the date; not.

# 108 MS. CLARK:

Uh-huh. And what was the month?

# 109 MR. MERAZ:

March.

# 110 MS. CLARK:

Of 1994?

# 111 MR. MERAZ:

This is true.

# 112 MS. CLARK:

For both of them, correct?

# 113 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 114 MS. CLARK:

Now, when was the first time that you met with the Defense involved in this case, sir?

# 115 MR. MERAZ:

The first time?

# 116 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

# 117 MR. MERAZ:

I believe before I was going to come to testify, sometime in October.

# 118 MS. CLARK:

Yes. And do you recall having a meeting with Defense investigators in this case on August 28th?

# 119 MR. MERAZ:

August 28th?

# 120 MS. CLARK:

Yes.

# 121 MR. MERAZ:

Sure, yes.

# 122 MS. CLARK:

And they came to your house, didn't they, sir?

# 123 MR. MERAZ:

They sure did.

# 124 MS. CLARK:

And at that time you had no attorneys present; isn't that right?

# 125 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 126 MS. CLARK:

And after you had that meeting with Defense investigators in your house, you met with the lawyer for the--one of the lawyers for the Defendant, Mr. Jerry Uelmen; isn't that correct?

# 127 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 128 MS. CLARK:

And you met with Mr. Uelmen in his office; isn't that right?

# 129 MR. MERAZ:

That's correct.

# 130 MS. CLARK:

And at that time you had two lawyers present for you; isn't that correct?

# 131 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 132 MS. CLARK:

Were they the same lawyers who are present in court today?

# 133 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 134 MS. CLARK:

And at that time you had begun your lawsuit against Viertel for unlawful termination, correct?

# 135 MR. COCHRAN:

Assumes a fact not in evidence, your Honor.

# 136 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 137 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 138 MS. CLARK:

Now, on August 28th, when you met--at the time you met with the Defense investigators, you indicated to us you had no lawyers present, correct?

# 139 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 140 MS. CLARK:

And prior to August 28th have you ever had a lawyer before?

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

That is irrelevant and immaterial, your Honor.

# 142 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 143 MS. CLARK:

After--at the point when you met with Mr. Uelmen--strike that. Between August 28th and the meeting you had with Mr. Uelmen sometime after August 28th, you hired some lawyers; is that correct?

# 144 MR. MERAZ:

Correct.

# 145 MS. CLARK:

You hired three lawyers; isn't that right?

# 146 MR. MERAZ:

Three lawyers? No.

# 147 MS. CLARK:

Were there not?

# 148 MR. MERAZ:

Two.

# 149 MS. CLARK:

You only hired two lawyers?

# 150 MR. MERAZ:

Yes.

# 151 MS. CLARK:

And that was the first time you had ever hired lawyers; isn't that right?

# 152 MR. COCHRAN:

Object. That is the same question, your Honor. Objection.

# 153 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 154 MS. CLARK:

How did you find those lawyers, sir?

# 155 MR. COCHRAN:

That is irrelevant and immaterial.

# 156 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 157 MS. CLARK:

May I approach? I have an offer.

# 158 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 159 MS. CLARK:

Did you consult with Mr. Uelmen as to who you should bring in as your lawyers in this case?

# 160 MR. MERAZ:

I don't think I did.

# 161 MS. CLARK:

You are not sure?

# 162 MR. MERAZ:

No, I don't think that was discussed.

# 163 MS. CLARK:

You don't recall discussing who you should hire to represent you?

# 164 MR. MERAZ:

No. We didn't discuss that.

# 165 MS. CLARK:

Do you recall discussing that with the Defense investigators, sir?

# 166 MR. MERAZ:

I might have with the investigators discussed it because I didn't have a lawyer. I was on the verge of getting lawyers then.

# 167 MS. CLARK:

And the Defense in this case helped you to find some lawyers?

KEY QUOTE

# 168 MR. COCHRAN:

Objection to that. Absolutely wrong. Objection, your Honor.

KEY QUOTE

# 169 THE COURT:

Let me see counsel at the side bar with the court reporter, please.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

John Meraz

The press had stated earlier that there was blood all over this vehicle and I was curious.

Undercuts the defense narrative that he was an innocent observer — he was actively looking for blood, which makes his claim of seeing none more significant and more contested.

Marcia Clark

And the Defense in this case helped you to find some lawyers?

The most explosive moment of the session — Clark suggested the defense coordinated Meraz's legal representation, implying he was a coached or controlled witness. Cochran objected furiously and the judge called a sidebar.

John Meraz

I wasn't looking for a light.

Reveals the selective nature of his observations — he was looking for blood, not for dome light function, reinforcing Clark's point that his 'I didn't see blood' testimony is unreliable.

Johnnie Cochran

Objection to that. Absolutely wrong. Objection, your Honor.

Rare emotional outburst from Cochran — the defense-helped-find-lawyers allegation visibly rattled him beyond a routine objection.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Photographs of blood inside the Bronco shown to Meraz

discussed — Meraz confirmed he did not see the blood depicted in them

Informal

Two receipts from March 1994 found in the Bronco's side pocket

discussed — Meraz confirmed the month and year but not specific dates

Informal

The Bronco's interior dome light cover and lightbulb (alleged missing)

discussed — Meraz could not recall whether the light came on when he opened the door

Notable Exchanges (4)

Marcia Clark•John Meraz

Clark methodically established that Meraz opened the Bronco door multiple times in enclosed areas but could not recall whether the dome light activated — laying groundwork for the inference that the bulb had been removed to conceal blood.

strategic

Marcia Clark•John Meraz•Johnnie Cochran

Clark revealed Meraz met with Defense investigators on August 28th without a lawyer, then subsequently hired two lawyers — and suggested the Defense helped him find them. Cochran erupted with an unusually sharp objection, prompting a sidebar.

heated

Lance A. Ito•Marcia Clark

Judge Ito intervened to clarify the numbering of Meraz's Bronco visits, noting Cochran had initiated the examination 'first time print shed' to keep the count accurate.

procedural

Marcia Clark•John Meraz

Clark established Meraz had been watching the trial on TV since January and had seen Officer Thompson — who testified about blood in the Bronco — in the courthouse the day before, though Meraz denied discussing testimony with him.

strategic

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ John Meraz

bias — relationship with defense

Clark implied the Defense helped Meraz secure personal legal counsel, suggesting he was a coordinated or coached witness rather than a neutral third party.

⚔ John Meraz

prior inconsistent conduct / selective perception

Clark highlighted that Meraz admitted he was actively looking for blood (per press reports) but claimed to see none — while also being unable to recall whether the dome light worked, suggesting unreliable or convenient memory.

⚔ John Meraz

media exposure / potential contamination

Clark established Meraz had been watching the trial on TV and had been in the courthouse the day Thompson testified about blood in the Bronco, raising the possibility his testimony was shaped by what he had seen or heard.

Objections

18 objections (9 sustained, 6 overruled)

Proceeding 6927 • 169 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103