📄 Cross-examination of Michael Gladden — Thursday, July 13, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\13\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-MICHAEL-G.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 114 of 167

Cross-examination of Michael Gladden

Witness: Michael Gladden
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Defense • Date: Thursday, July 13, 1995 • Utterances: 278
Christopher Darden cross-examines Michael Gladden, a Vons supermarket employee who encountered OJ Simpson at LAX on the night of the murders and obtained his autograph. Darden methodically works to limit the value of Gladden's testimony — establishing that Gladden never saw the back of Simpson's left hand (where a cut existed), had only brief contact with Simpson, and had no baseline for Simpson's normal demeanor. Darden also attempts to impeach Gladden with an alleged prior statement to a Vons grocery driver that Simpson appeared startled by a honking horn, which Gladden flatly denies.
1 THE COURT:

Glad to see you are all still with us. My apologies to you for the late start. We had a number of legal issues that I had to take up out of your presence before we got restarted again this morning. All right. Mr. Michael Gladden, would you resume the witness stand again, please, sir.

Michael Gladden, the witness on the stand at the time of the evening adjournment, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

2 THE COURT:

And Mrs. Robertson, do you have those two exhibits available? All right. Good morning, Mr. Gladden.

3 MR. GLADDEN:

Good morning.

4 THE COURT:

You are reminded, sir, you are still under oath. Mr. Cochran, have you concluded your direct examination?

5 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes, I have, your Honor.

6 THE COURT:

Mr. Darden.

7 MR. DARDEN:

Thank you, your Honor. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN

8 MR. DARDEN:

Good morning, Mr. Gladden.

9 MR. GLADDEN:

Good morning.

10 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Gladden, when you saw the Defendant, OJ Simpson here, he looked pretty much the way you expected him to look, right?

11 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

12 MR. DARDEN:

You had seen him on television before?

13 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

14 THE COURT:

Mr. Gladden, would you pull the microphone a little closer to you.

15 (Witness complies.)
16 THE COURT:

Thank you.

17 MR. DARDEN:

Was it your testimony that he looked like he was advertising jeans?

18 MR. GLADDEN:

Yeah. I had seen an ad with him wearing basically the same thing he was wearing that day.

19 MR. DARDEN:

I take it you have never seen OJ Simpson at home, at his home?

20 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

21 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You didn't know him before that night?

22 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I didn't.

23 MR. DARDEN:

This was the first time you had ever met the Defendant?

24 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

25 MR. DARDEN:

This was the first time you had ever been face to face with the Defendant?

26 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

27 MR. DARDEN:

So you really can't tell us then how he normally behaves?

KEY QUOTE
28 MR. GLADDEN:

That's true.

29 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You can't tell us what his usual demeanor is, can you?

30 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

31 MR. DARDEN:

You never saw the Defendant carry any luggage?

32 MR. GLADDEN:

I seen him trying to close a tall bag and I think he laid something on the cart after the other--after the limo driver had put a bunch of stuff on the cart.

33 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. But you didn't see him carry any luggage, did you?

34 MR. GLADDEN:

I really wasn't paying attention to that.

35 MR. DARDEN:

So you didn't see him carry any luggage?

36 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

37 MR. DARDEN:

You didn't see him carry something over his shoulder?

38 MR. GLADDEN:

I wasn't--after he gave me the autograph, Mike North came and asked me something then, so I really wasn't watching what he was doing.

39 MR. DARDEN:

And after--well, strike that. When you got the autograph, you handed the Defendant a pad, a post-it that you showed us yesterday; is that right?

40 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

41 MR. DARDEN:

Did you also hand him an ink pen?

42 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes, I did.

43 MR. DARDEN:

Did he take that ink pen out of your hand when you extended your hand?

44 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

45 MR. DARDEN:

Did he drop the ink pen?

46 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

47 MR. DARDEN:

Did he seem to have any trouble grasping the ink pen?

48 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

49 MR. DARDEN:

And he took that ink pen and he took that pad, right?

50 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

51 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did he have any trouble grasping the pad?

52 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

53 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did he grimace in pain at all when he took the ink pen from you?

54 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

55 MR. DARDEN:

By the way, did you shake the Defendant's hand?

56 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I didn't.

57 MR. DARDEN:

He didn't extend his hand to you?

58 MR. GLADDEN:

Well, he just took the autograph--the thing, autographed it and handed it back.

59 MR. DARDEN:

Did you ever extend your hand to him as if to offer a handshake?

60 MR. GLADDEN:

No. I just said "Thank you" and he said, "You are welcome."

61 MR. DARDEN:

Did the Defendant have a cut on his left hand?

62 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I didn't see one.

63 MR. DARDEN:

Did you look at his left hand?

64 MR. GLADDEN:

I mean, I didn't come up to him and start examining his hand. I just asked for an autograph.

65 MR. DARDEN:

Well, did you see his left hand?

66 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes, I seen both his hands.

67 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you see both of his hands, his entire left and right hand?

68 MR. GLADDEN:

Pretty much so.

69 MR. DARDEN:

You saw the top of his hand, the palm?

70 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

71 MR. DARDEN:

You saw the bottom of his hand?

72 MR. GLADDEN:

Well, he held the thing like this when he signed it and just handed it back so--

73 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see the bottom of his hand?

74 MR. GLADDEN:

Not really that closely.

75 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see the bottom of his hand?

76 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

77 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, when he says "Bottom"--

78 THE COURT:

Excuse me, Mr. Darden. When you were saying "The bottom of your hand" and asking the question, you were rubbing the back of your left hand with the palm of your right hand.

79 MR. DARDEN:

Exactly.

80 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see the back of the Defendant's hand left?

81 MR. GLADDEN:

Not when I was standing real close, no.

82 MR. DARDEN:

Did you ever see the back of the Defendant's left hand?

83 MR. GLADDEN:

When he got out of the limo I seen how big he was and I was like checking out how big his hands were and stuff.

84 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Now, on October 7, 1994, you received a telephone call from LAPD Detective Richard Crotsly; is that correct?

85 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

86 MR. DARDEN:

And he read to you a written statement that you had given the Defense; is that right?

87 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

88 MR. DARDEN:

And he asked you whether or not you had observed the bottom of the Defendant's left hand, didn't he?

89 MR. COCHRAN:

One minute, your Honor. I don't think I have seen this statement.

90 (Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
91 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes, he asked.

92 MR. DARDEN:

And you told him that you had not seen the bottom or observed the bottom of the Defendant's hand that night, correct?

93 MR. GLADDEN:

Right.

94 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And when you referred or rather used the term "Bottom," you were referring to the back of the Defendant's hand, weren't you?

95 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

96 MR. DARDEN:

You cannot tell this jury that the Defendant did not have a cut on his left hand when you saw him?

97 MR. GLADDEN:

I can tell if he was bleeding or not.

KEY QUOTE
98 MR. DARDEN:

You can tell?

99 MR. GLADDEN:

I mean, he asked me did I see any blood and I said no.

100 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You didn't see any blood on the Defendant?

101 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

102 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You didn't see any blood on the back of his left hand?

103 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

104 MR. DARDEN:

Then again, you didn't see the back of his left hand, right?

KEY QUOTE
105 MR. GLADDEN:

Right.

106 MR. DARDEN:

So you don't know whether the Defendant's--whether the back of the Defendant's finger or finger on the left hand was cut or not, do you?

107 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

108 MR. DARDEN:

Now, during the time that you were speaking to the Defendant, OJ Simpson--

109 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

110 MR. DARDEN:

--were you standing up on the sidewalk?

111 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I was at my van.

112 MR. DARDEN:

Pardon me?

113 MR. GLADDEN:

I was like near my van.

114 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. All right. Were you on the sidewalk near your van?

115 MR. GLADDEN:

No, on the outside of the van.

116 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. But were you on the sidewalk?

117 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I wasn't.

118 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Where was the Defendant?

119 MR. GLADDEN:

He was by the back of the limo.

120 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Is that the only place you spoke to the Defendant?

121 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

122 MR. DARDEN:

Now, how did you describe the Defendant's demeanor yesterday?

123 MR. GLADDEN:

Pretty calm, just taking his time.

124 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did he appear calm throughout your contact with him?

125 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes, pretty much so.

126 MR. DARDEN:

Was there ever a point during your contact with the Defendant that he did not appear calm?

127 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

128 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Gladden, you work at a Vons Supermarket, don't you?

129 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

130 MR. DARDEN:

And that supermarket is located at 230--

131 MR. COCHRAN:

Counsel--

132 MR. DARDEN:

Excuse me. That supermarket is located on--

133 THE COURT:

Hold on. Just the city is fine.

134 MR. DARDEN:

Okay.

135 MR. DARDEN:

The supermarket is located in the city of Santa Monica?

136 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

137 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And what do you do there?

138 MR. GLADDEN:

I work in the service deli.

139 MR. DARDEN:

Were you there this past Monday, July 10th?

140 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

141 MR. DARDEN:

And while you were there Monday, July 10th, you were telling people about your observations of the Defendant that night, correct?

142 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

143 MR. DARDEN:

Was there a point during your contact with the Defendant that he lost his calm or was not calm?

144 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

145 MR. DARDEN:

During the time that you were speaking to the Defendant a car pulled up; is that right?

146 MR. GLADDEN:

Not that I was aware of.

147 MR. DARDEN:

Not that you are aware of?

148 MR. GLADDEN:

There was cars coming and going all the time.

149 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Do you remember a car pulling up and stopping and someone blowing a horn?

150 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I don't recall that.

151 MR. DARDEN:

You don't recall the Defendant becoming startled after someone blew a horn?

152 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

153 MR. DARDEN:

Do you know someone named Robert Driscoll?

154 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I don't.

155 MR. DARDEN:

Do you know a driver for Vons grocery named Robert?

156 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

157 MR. DARDEN:

Or Bob?

158 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

159 MR. DARDEN:

Did you have contact with a driver for Vons grocery on Monday, July 10th?

160 MR. GLADDEN:

I mean I come in contact with drivers all the time. Usually--usually our loads come in on Tuesdays.

161 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you have--did you have contact with a driver on Monday?

162 MR. GLADDEN:

I'm not sure. I don't think so.

163 MR. DARDEN:

Isn't it true, Mr. Gladden, that you told a driver for Vons grocery that while you were talking to the Defendant a vehicle pulled up?

164 MR. GLADDEN:

No, that is not true.

165 MR. DARDEN:

Did you tell anyone that?

166 MR. GLADDEN:

I told nobody that.

167 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Didn't you tell the driver from Vons grocery that a vehicle pulled up and the driver honked the horn?

168 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I never have.

169 MR. DARDEN:

And didn't you tell that driver that when the driver honked that horn the Defendant, OJ Simpson, almost jumped out of his skin?

KEY QUOTE
170 MR. GLADDEN:

I never said that.

171 MR. DARDEN:

You never said that, Mr. Gladden?

172 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I didn't.

173 MR. DARDEN:

Did you tell someone, a driver for Vons grocery, that the Defendant appeared startled when he heard that horn?

174 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

175 MR. DARDEN:

Mr. Gladden, you asked for the Defendant's autograph because he was a celebrity; is that correct?

176 MR. GLADDEN:

That's true.

177 MR. DARDEN:

And you have asked other celebrities for their autographs, haven't you?

178 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

179 MR. DARDEN:

How many celebrity autographs have you obtained?

180 MR. GLADDEN:

Since I've been working there probably about three or four maybe.

181 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. What other autographs have you obtained?

182 MR. GLADDEN:

Cecil fielder.

183 MR. DARDEN:

He is a baseball player?

184 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes. And I got I think Steve Garvey. I got it for somebody else.

185 MR. DARDEN:

He is a baseball player?

186 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

187 MR. DARDEN:

Who else?

188 MR. GLADDEN:

And Lou Holtz was a football coach.

189 MR. DARDEN:

Notre Dame's football coach, new coach?

190 MR. GLADDEN:

He was out there practicing his golf swing.

191 MR. DARDEN:

Somebody else?

192 MR. GLADDEN:

OJ Simpson.

193 MR. DARDEN:

You don't have any celebrity autographs from actresses?

194 (No audible response.)
195 MR. COCHRAN:

Object to that, your Honor. Irrelevant and immaterial.

196 THE COURT:

Overruled.

197 MR. GLADDEN:

Tai Babalonia came in the store one time and I got her autograph.

198 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. But for the most part, the celebrity autographs that you have are autographs from sports heroes, right?

199 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

200 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You watch a lot of sports, do you?

201 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes, I do.

202 MR. DARDEN:

Now, you told us yesterday what the Defendant was wearing when you saw him, correct?

203 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

204 MR. DARDEN:

Was he wearing socks, Mr. Gladden?

205 MR. GLADDEN:

I have no idea.

206 MR. DARDEN:

You didn't look down to see whether or not the Defendant was wearing socks?

207 MR. GLADDEN:

He was wearing boots.

208 MR. DARDEN:

Boots?

209 MR. GLADDEN:

Kind of like--like dress boots or something like that, looked like.

210 MR. DARDEN:

Can you describe those for us, please?

211 MR. GLADDEN:

Kind of like tan color, like a baseball glove color.

212 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you see the Defendant's ankle?

213 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

214 MR. DARDEN:

You can't tell us whether or not the Defendant was wearing socks at that time?

215 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I can't.

216 MR. DARDEN:

Now, after you obtained that autograph from the Defendant, he turned and he walked away; is that correct?

217 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

218 MR. DARDEN:

Now, at any time prior to that did the Defendant ever appear to you to be in pain?

219 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

220 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And as he turned and walked away, you watched him?

221 MR. GLADDEN:

Well, Mike Norris walked toward me and he asked me what did he say when he asked about--if his son was still playing football, and I said I really didn't know.

222 MR. DARDEN:

Let me stop you there. That is nonresponsive. Well, but you saw the Defendant walk away?

223 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

224 MR. DARDEN:

Did he have any trouble walking?

225 MR. COCHRAN:

Calls for speculation, your Honor.

226 THE COURT:

Overruled.

227 MR. GLADDEN:

No, not that I was aware of.

228 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You didn't notice anything unusual about the way the Defendant walked away, did you?

229 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

230 MR. DARDEN:

Now, did you see him walk over to the skycap station?

231 MR. GLADDEN:

He was like kind of standing in between the skycap and like where the door was.

232 MR. DARDEN:

And there is a trash can located between the doorjamb and the skycap station?

233 MR. GLADDEN:

Yeah, there is.

234 MR. DARDEN:

Is that right?

235 MR. GLADDEN:

I think there is a couple of them like on each side.

236 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see the Defendant place anything on top of that trash can?

237 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

238 MR. DARDEN:

You didn't see him place a bag on top of the trash can?

239 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

240 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see some golf clubs that night?

241 MR. GLADDEN:

Not that I was aware of, no.

242 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. Did you see anyone take a golfing bag, golf club bag, out of the trunk of the limo?

243 MR. GLADDEN:

No. I seen like a big black bag. I don't know what was in it.

244 MR. DARDEN:

Was that black bag about four and a half feet tall?

245 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

246 MR. DARDEN:

And did you and Michael Norris leave the curb at the same time?

247 MR. GLADDEN:

I think I pulled out before he did.

248 MR. DARDEN:

Now, did you tell us yesterday that you saw the Defendant at the rear of the limousine?

249 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

250 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And you saw him open up a bag?

251 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I never said that.

KEY QUOTE
252 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. You didn't see the Defendant open up a bag?

253 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

254 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see him reach into a bag?

255 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

256 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see him remove anything from a bag?

257 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

258 MR. DARDEN:

You weren't looking at the Defendant's hands specifically to see if he had a cut on his hand?

259 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I wasn't.

260 MR. COCHRAN:

Asked and answered, your Honor.

261 THE COURT:

Overruled.

262 MR. DARDEN:

You hadn't heard anything about Ron Goldman having been murdered at that point?

263 MR. COCHRAN:

Beyond the scope of direct, your Honor.

264 THE COURT:

Overruled.

265 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

266 MR. DARDEN:

And you hadn't heard anything about Nicole Brown having been murdered at that point?

267 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I hadn't.

268 MR. DARDEN:

And so that the record is clear, your assessment of the Defendant's demeanor that night is based solely on the brief contact you had with him, right?

269 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

270 MR. DARDEN:

Okay. And that was the first time you ever met him?

271 MR. GLADDEN:

Yes.

272 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see the Defendant speak to the skycap?

273 MR. GLADDEN:

No.

274 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
275 MR. DARDEN:

Did you leave--strike that.

276 MR. DARDEN:

Did you see the Defendant approaching the skycap?

277 MR. GLADDEN:

No, I did not.

278 MR. DARDEN:

Thank you. That is all I have.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Christopher Darden
Then again, you didn't see the back of his left hand, right?
The pivot point of the entire cross — Darden gets Gladden to concede that despite claiming he saw both hands, he never actually saw the back of Simpson's left hand where the cut was.
Christopher Darden
Didn't you tell that driver that when the driver honked that horn the Defendant, OJ Simpson, almost jumped out of his skin?
Darden attempts to introduce a prior inconsistent statement suggesting Simpson was anxious/startled — behavior inconsistent with the calm demeanor Gladden described on direct.
Michael Gladden
I never said that.
Gladden's flat denial of the 'jumped out of his skin' statement; the jury is left to weigh credibility between Gladden and the unnamed Vons driver.
Michael Gladden
I can tell if he was bleeding or not.
Gladden tries to salvage his observation — he didn't see blood — but Darden has already established he couldn't see the back of the hand, limiting how much this helps the defense.
Christopher Darden
So you really can't tell us then how he normally behaves?
Establishes that Gladden's 'calm demeanor' testimony is worthless as a baseline since he had never met Simpson before.

Evidence (3)

Informal
Written statement Gladden gave to the Defense, read back to him by LAPD Detective Richard Crotsly on October 7, 1994
referenced to confirm Gladden had not observed the back of Simpson's left hand
Informal
Post-it note pad that Gladden gave Simpson to sign
discussed to establish Simpson's ability to grasp objects and that he showed no pain or difficulty
Informal
Large black bag (~4.5 feet tall) seen at rear of limousine
discussed; Gladden says he saw it but did not see Simpson open, reach into, or remove anything from it

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher DardenMichael Gladden
Darden spends several exchanges drilling down on whether Gladden saw the back of Simpson's left hand, eventually getting a clear 'No' after Gladden initially claimed he saw 'both his hands.' The judge even intervenes to clarify that Darden's gesture (rubbing the back of his hand) was defining 'bottom.'
strategic
Christopher DardenMichael Gladden
Darden attempts to impeach Gladden with an alleged statement to a Vons grocery driver named Robert Driscoll — that Simpson 'almost jumped out of his skin' when a car horn honked. Gladden denies every version of the statement and denies knowing the driver.
heated
Lance A. ItoChristopher Darden
Judge Ito interrupts Darden mid-question to note that Darden's physical gesture was defining the term 'bottom of the hand' for the jury, clarifying the record.
procedural

Light Moments (2)

Michael Gladden
When asked about celebrity autographs beyond sports stars, Gladden eventually mentions figure skater Tai Babalonia — an unexpected answer after a string of athletes.
Michael Gladden
Lou Holtz was 'out there practicing his golf swing' — a casual, mundane detail that briefly humanizes the witness.

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Michael Gladden
prior inconsistent statement
Darden references an alleged statement Gladden made to a Vons grocery driver (Robert Driscoll) on July 10, 1995, claiming Simpson 'almost jumped out of his skin' when a horn honked — contradicting Gladden's direct testimony that Simpson was calm throughout. Gladden denies making the statement and denies knowing the driver.
⚔ Michael Gladden
scope limitation
Darden establishes that Gladden had never met Simpson before, had only brief contact with him, and therefore cannot speak to his normal demeanor — gutting the value of his 'calm' observation for the defense.
⚔ Michael Gladden
prior inconsistent statement (detective interview)
Darden uses Gladden's October 7, 1994 statement to LAPD Detective Crotsly to confirm Gladden had not observed the back of Simpson's left hand — contradicting any implication from direct that Gladden could testify Simpson had no visible injury.

Witness Demeanor

(Witness complies with judge's request to adjust microphone)
(No audible response) when asked about actress autographs before recovering with Tai Babalonia

Objections

6 objections (0 sustained, 5 overruled)
Proceeding 6806 • 278 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 JUL 13, 1995 📄 Cross-examination of Michael G
JUL 13, 1995 KRT DvH TD