Direct examination of Mary Collins

📄 Direct examination of Mary Collins — Monday, July 10, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\JUL\10\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-MARY-COL.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 111 of 167

◀ Mary Collins called Cross-examination of Mary Collins ▶

Witness: Mary Collins
Examiner: Johnnie Cochran
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, July 10, 1995 • Utterances: 203

Interior designer Mary Collins testified about a meeting at O.J. Simpson's Rockingham home on June 6, 1994, to discuss redecorating his bedroom suite. Paula Barbieri was present and actively participated in selecting fabrics and discussing changes, including expressing a desire to renovate the bathroom that had been Nicole's. Collins was subsequently paid a $1,000 retainer check dated June 7, 1994.

# 1 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly, your Honor. We would ask leave of the Court to call Miss Mary Collins to the stand.

Mary Collins, called as a witness by the Defendant, was sworn and testified as follows:

# 2 THE COURT:

All right. Miss Collins, would you stand right next to the court reporter here, face the clerk.

# 3 THE CLERK:

Raise your right hand, please. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this Court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

# 4 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 5 THE CLERK:

Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

# 6 THE COURT:

Can you state and spell your name, please.

# 7 MS. COLLINS:

Oh. Mary Collins, M-A-R-Y C-O-L-L-I-N-S.

# 8 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran.

# 9 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you very kindly, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

# 10 MR. COCHRAN:

Good afternoon, Miss Collins.

# 11 MS. COLLINS:

Good afternoon.

# 12 MR. COCHRAN:

And, Miss Collins, what is your occupation?

# 13 MS. COLLINS:

I'm an interior designer.

# 14 MR. COCHRAN:

And for how long have you been in the business of interior design?

# 15 MS. COLLINS:

About 25 years.

# 16 MR. COCHRAN:

And have you operated locally in this--in the area of Southern California?

# 17 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 18 MR. COCHRAN:

Now--

# 19 THE COURT:

Miss Collins, if you could just pull the microphone a little closer to you, please.

# 20 MS. CLARK:

Your Honor, could we take that picture down now?

# 21 THE COURT:

Yes.

# 22 MS. CLARK:

Want me to do it?

# 23 THE COURT:

All right. Just put it over here on the side, please. All right. Mr. Cochran, proceed.

# 24 MR. COCHRAN:

Thank you, your Honor.

# 25 MR. COCHRAN:

I think we've just established that you have been in the interior design business for about the last 25 years?

# 26 MS. COLLINS:

That's right.

# 27 MR. COCHRAN:

In this general area?

# 28 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 29 MR. COCHRAN:

I'd like to direct your attention to the gentleman at the far end of counsel table there. Do you know Mr. Orenthal James Simpson?

# 30 MS. COLLINS:

Yes, I do.

# 31 MR. COCHRAN:

And about how long have you known him?

# 32 MS. COLLINS:

I think about 20 years.

# 33 MR. COCHRAN:

And have you over the course of the time you've known O.J. Simpson ever had occasion to work for him?

# 34 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 35 MR. COCHRAN:

And in what capacity did you work for him?

# 36 MS. COLLINS:

I designed three of his offices.

# 37 MR. COCHRAN:

These are his offices that he had at various times during his career; is that right?

# 38 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

And when you say "Designed them," what did you do for him? What did you do for them?

# 40 MS. COLLINS:

I did the interior design.

# 41 MR. COCHRAN:

And were you paid for those services?

# 42 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 43 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, are you presently married?

# 44 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 45 MR. COCHRAN:

And are you with your husband?

# 46 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 47 MR. COCHRAN:

And were you formerly married to someone else?

# 48 MS. COLLINS:

No.

# 49 MR. COCHRAN:

To a different person? All right. Do you--what is your husband's name?

# 50 MS. COLLINS:

Roger Collins.

# 51 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And were you formerly--is your sister-in-law Cathy Randa, Mr. Simpson's executive assistant?

# 52 MS. COLLINS:

Yes. She was my sister-in-law.

# 53 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. She was your sister-in-law, a former husband?

# 54 MS. COLLINS:

She was my brother's wife, but they've been divorced for about 27 years.

# 55 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now we got it. She was your brother's wife?

# 56 MS. COLLINS:

Uh-huh.

# 57 MR. COCHRAN:

They had been divorced; is that correct?

# 58 MS. COLLINS:

Yes. Uh-huh.

# 59 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to the interior design jobs that you did for Mr. Simpson, can you tell us in what location those offices were just generally?

# 60 MS. COLLINS:

Two were in Brentwood and one was at Colombia Studios.

# 61 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, I would like to direct your attention to the week of June 6th, 1994. Do you remember that week?

# 62 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 63 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you have occasion to meet with Mr. O.J. Simpson sometime during that particular week?

# 64 MS. COLLINS:

Yes, I did.

# 65 MR. COCHRAN:

And what date did you meet with him?

# 66 MS. COLLINS:

I believe that was June 6th.

# 67 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Was that on a Monday if you recall?

# 68 MS. COLLINS:

I think it was on a Monday.

# 69 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And where did you meet with Mr. Simpson on that date?

# 70 MS. COLLINS:

I met with him at his home.

# 71 MR. COCHRAN:

And his home is on Rockingham?

# 72 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 73 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And why were you at the Rockingham location?

# 74 MS. COLLINS:

To discuss redecorating his bedroom suite.

# 75 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Was this now a request or something that he had made for you to come to the home?

# 76 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 77 MR. COCHRAN:

And when you arrived at the location, you had occasion to meet with Mr. Simpson; is that correct?

# 78 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 79 MR. COCHRAN:

Did you meet with anyone else at that time?

# 80 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 81 MR. COCHRAN:

And who was that?

# 82 MS. COLLINS:

There was Paula Barbieri, Kato Kaelin and there was someone else. I can't remember who that was.

# 83 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

# 84 MS. COLLINS:

And I had my associate Jill Hall with me.

# 85 MR. COCHRAN:

You had another lady with you?

# 86 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 87 MR. COCHRAN:

And at the house was Paula Barbieri and Mr. Simpson; is that correct?

# 88 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 89 MR. COCHRAN:

And Kato Kaelin was there?

# 90 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 91 MR. COCHRAN:

I presume that Kato Kaelin was not going to retain your services to decorate Mr. Simpson's house though, was he?

KEY QUOTE

# 92 MS. COLLINS:

No.

# 93 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. He was just there at the house?

# 94 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 95 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did you have a meeting with Mr. Simpson with regard to what he wanted done to his bedroom suite?

# 96 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 97 MR. COCHRAN:

And where did that meeting take place at the Rockingham location?

# 98 MS. COLLINS:

Upstairs in the bedroom suite.

# 99 MR. COCHRAN:

And who was present during this particular meeting, if you recall?

# 100 MS. COLLINS:

Paula, Jill and O.J. and myself.

# 101 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And in the course of that, did you have a discussion about the things that Mr. Simpson wanted done to the bedroom and how he wanted it changed?

# 102 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 103 MR. COCHRAN:

How long did that meeting last if you recall?

# 104 MS. COLLINS:

Seemed like it was about 45 minutes.

# 105 MR. COCHRAN:

And did he have an idea of what he wanted to have done?

# 106 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 107 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you had dealt with him before with regard to decorating his offices, and so this was not the first time that you would have done a job for him; is that correct?

# 108 MS. COLLINS:

That's correct.

# 109 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, you mentioned that Paula Barbieri was also present during this meeting.

# 110 MS. COLLINS:

Uh-huh. Yes.

# 111 MR. COCHRAN:

Did she participate at all in this 45-minute discussion regarding what was going to happen to the location there?

# 112 MS. COLLINS:

Yes, she did.

# 113 MR. COCHRAN:

And how did she participate?

# 114 MS. COLLINS:

She was looking at samples of the choices I brought and they were discussing with each other which they preferred, and they seemed to be agreeing pretty much on the same things.

KEY QUOTE

# 115 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, you mentioned that you brought some samples--I didn't mean to cut you off. Some samples?

# 116 MS. COLLINS:

Fabric swatches, carpet samples.

# 117 MR. COCHRAN:

And does it work that you would then show the fabric samples or swatches to the client?

# 118 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 119 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that correct?

# 120 MS. COLLINS:

Uh-huh.

# 121 MR. COCHRAN:

And the client then makes some kind of choice?

# 122 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 123 MR. COCHRAN:

In the course of this process, you saw Miss Paula Barbieri also involved in that?

# 124 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 125 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, after the 45 minutes, after the time had elapsed, did you get a chance to make a presentation or to fully understand everything that Mr. Simpson wanted done?

# 126 MS. COLLINS:

Well, I was proposing an idea that I had about redesigning his room, and I told him that I would be making sketches and getting bids on this idea that I had about turning the bed at an angle so that he could enjoy the fireplace and have entertainment center that he was facing rather than having it to the left of him. He had a television to the left of him. So that was an idea that he was considering. And Paula had an idea about putting a console at the foot of the bed that would hold the television that could lift hydraulically I guess to have an entertainment center at the foot of the bed. She wanted me to see this unit that she was talking about at a hotel where she had stayed. So we talked a little bit about that.

# 127 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Did Miss Barbieri have any particular remarks regarding the bathroom?

# 128 MS. COLLINS:

Yes. She really wanted that changed.

# 129 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. This all occurred during this conversation that you had?

# 130 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 131 MR. COCHRAN:

And you say that one of your associates, Miss Jill Hall, was present during this meeting also?

# 132 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 133 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, by the way, if you recall, what time of day on June 6th did this meeting take place?

# 134 MS. COLLINS:

It was late in the day. It seemed like it was sometime after 6:30.

KEY QUOTE

# 135 MR. COCHRAN:

In the evening.

# 136 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 137 MR. COCHRAN:

Is that right?

# 138 MS. COLLINS:

Uh-huh.

# 139 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, do you recall where Mr. Kato Kaelin was in the house during this meeting? Was he downstairs?

# 140 MS. COLLINS:

Umm, he was--yes, in the television viewing area. That's where they were when we walked in.

# 141 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Now, with regard to your recommendations and Mr. Simpson and Miss Barbieri's desires, you talked about various things. And what did you agree at the end of the meeting if anything?

# 142 MS. COLLINS:

That I would be getting bids and that I would try to work it out so that what I was doing wouldn't interfere with Mr. Simpson's schedule. So I--I said I would do all of that scheduling through the office so that none of this would bother him and that I would be sending him faxes and samples to look at and hopefully we would meet again if he had the time.

# 143 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. So there was something about his schedule, whether or not he would be in town or not?

# 144 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 145 MR. COCHRAN:

And you were aware that he was about to leave town?

# 146 MS. CLARK:

Objection.

# 147 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 148 MR. COCHRAN:

Strike that. Counsel is correct. Let me restate it.

# 149 MR. COCHRAN:

Let me restate that. Did you have any knowledge of Mr. Simpson's schedule during that particular period of time?

# 150 MS. COLLINS:

Not at that particular period of time, but I know that he travels a lot. So--

# 151 MR. COCHRAN:

And how do you know that? Based upon what?

# 152 MS. COLLINS:

My past experiences.

# 153 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. The other jobs that you did?

# 154 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 155 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Your Honor, it's now five past 5:00 and I don't think--

# 156 THE COURT:

Do you have much more?

# 157 MR. COCHRAN:

Not much more. Shall I be your guest? All right.

# 158 MR. COCHRAN:

So based upon the previous jobs that you had done, you knew that he traveled quite a bit; is that right?

# 159 MS. COLLINS:

Uh-huh. Yes.

# 160 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Now, you told us this meeting lasted about 45 minutes. And after you finished that meeting, did it terminate at some point?

# 161 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 162 MR. COCHRAN:

And was there anything else that occurred during the meeting or the discussion about what you were to do that you haven't told us about thus far?

# 163 MS. COLLINS:

Not that I can think of.

# 164 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. Now, you described for us that Miss Barbieri had some concern about the bathroom. What didn't she like about the bathroom if you recall?

# 165 MS. CLARK:

Objection. Relevancy.

# 166 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 167 MS. COLLINS:

Well, she didn't care for the wallpaper. She just didn't really like the style of it. It didn't seem to relate to the bedroom.

# 168 MR. COCHRAN:

Was it--was it--now, which bathroom was it that she was particularly concerned about if you recall?

# 169 MS. COLLINS:

It--it was part of the master bedroom, but it was off--at the end of the hallway.

# 170 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And whose bathroom had that been?

# 171 MS. COLLINS:

Nicole's.

# 172 MR. COCHRAN:

And is that a bathroom area that as you walk into the bedroom, it's off to the left?

# 173 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 174 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And were you aware that there was another bathroom that Mr. Simpson used primarily?

# 175 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 176 MR. COCHRAN:

Miss Barbieri's concerns were directed towards the bathroom as you first walked into the room; is that right?

# 177 MS. COLLINS:

That's right.

# 178 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, did you have occasion to discuss budget with Mr. Simpson?

# 179 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 180 MR. COCHRAN:

And did you arrive at a figure of what this budget for this work would cost generally?

# 181 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 182 MR. COCHRAN:

And thereafter, did--were you paid some sort of a retainer--

# 183 MS. COLLINS:

Yes, I was.

# 184 MR. COCHRAN:

--by Mr. Simpson or his business office?

# 185 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 186 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. And--

# 187 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor--counsel?

# 188 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

# 189 MR. COCHRAN:

Your Honor, I would like at this point to mark I think it's Defendant's 1248.

# 190 THE COURT:

I think 1228.

# 191 MR. COCHRAN:

Is it 28? All right. I'll put a 1228 in the upper right-hand corner.

# 192 (Deft's 1228 for id = check)

# 193 THE COURT:

And I take it we're about to wind it up with this?

# 194 MR. COCHRAN:

I take it we are, your Honor. Yes, we are. Thank you. May I approach the witness?

# 195 THE COURT:

You may.

# 196 MR. COCHRAN:

Now, I'm going to show you what purports to be a check made payable to Collins and Collins in the amount of $1,000 from O.J. Simpson, care of Leroy B. Taft, made payable to Collins and Collins, signed apparently by Leroy B. Taft. Is that a check that you received on or about June 7th of 1994?

# 197 MS. COLLINS:

Yes.

# 198 MR. COCHRAN:

And what does that check purportedly represent?

# 199 MS. COLLINS:

It was the retainer to start the job.

# 200 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Thank you very kindly. That's all I have at this point, your Honor.

# 201 THE COURT:

All right. Is that all you have?

# 202 MR. COCHRAN:

At this point, yes, your Honor.

# 203 THE COURT:

No. Are you finished?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Mary Collins

She was looking at samples of the choices I brought and they were discussing with each other which they preferred, and they seemed to be agreeing pretty much on the same things.

Establishes Barbieri as an active, invested presence in Simpson's home — behaving as a domestic partner — one week before the murders.

Mary Collins

Nicole's.

Identifying the bathroom Paula Barbieri wanted redecorated as Nicole's — subtle evidence of Barbieri asserting herself in the space Nicole had occupied.

Johnnie Cochran

I presume that Kato Kaelin was not going to retain your services to decorate Mr. Simpson's house though, was he?

Light moment establishing Kaelin's presence without giving it weight.

Mary Collins

It was late in the day. It seemed like it was sometime after 6:30.

Places Simpson at Rockingham in a domestic planning context on June 6 — timeline evidence.

Evidence (1)

Defendant's 1228

$1,000 retainer check from O.J. Simpson (signed by Leroy B. Taft) payable to Collins and Collins, dated on or about June 7, 1994

introduced

Notable Exchanges (2)

Johnnie Cochran•Mary Collins

Collins identifies the bathroom Paula Barbieri wanted renovated as 'Nicole's' — Cochran draws this out methodically by asking which bathroom and whose it had been.

strategic

Johnnie Cochran•Mary Collins

Collins describes Barbieri's idea about a hydraulic TV console she'd seen at a hotel, framing Barbieri as engaged and planning a future in Simpson's home.

revealing

Light Moments (2)

Johnnie Cochran

Cochran jokes that Kato Kaelin presumably was not going to hire Collins to redecorate Simpson's bedroom.

Johnnie Cochran

Cochran and Judge Ito banter about whether to continue past 5:00 PM — 'Shall I be your guest?'

Objections

2 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 6703 • 203 utterances • Defense witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103