Arnelle Simpson, OJ's eldest daughter, testified about the morning of June 13, 1994, describing three phone conversations with her distraught father (who was in Chicago), picking up her half-siblings Sydney and Justin from police custody, and being forced to leave the Rockingham residence. She also testified about OJ's devastated emotional state when she saw him that evening — numb, crying, holding his mother's hand — and described Ron Shipp sitting at the bar drinking for roughly an hour. The examination concluded with Arnelle denying she ever saw OJ wear a dark blue or black cotton sweatsuit.
# 1 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
# 2 THE COURT: Talking about describing the three TV's in the TV room.
# 3 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
# 4 MR. COCHRAN: The conversation, this second conversation you had with your dad was in the TV room, there is a phone therein?
# 6 MR. COCHRAN: You were on your way back to your room when the phone rang and you then picked it up?
# 8 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You described his demeanor. Now, you can't tell us what he said but did you tell--what did you tell your dad at that time with regard to what the police had told you?
# 9 MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay.
# 10 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 11 MR. COCHRAN: Let me ask it another way: Did you say something to your dad during this conversation?
# 13 MR. COCHRAN: And in the course of talking to your dad did you tell your dad--
# 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay.
# 15 MR. COCHRAN: I can't finish the question.
# 16 MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell your dad what the police had told you? You can answer that yes or no.
# 18 MR. COCHRAN: And you can't tell us what he said. Did you tell him everything the police had told you?
# 20 MR. COCHRAN: And after you finished talking with your dad and telling him what the police had told you, he was upset and distraught as you have described?
# 22 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, how long did this conversation last, this second conversation with your dad?
# 23 MS. SIMPSON: It was five to ten minutes.
# 24 MR. COCHRAN: And on this occasion did he talk to any detectives at all, if you know?
# 26 MR. COCHRAN: Did he remain distraught throughout the entire conversation?
# 28 MR. COCHRAN: Were you able to ascertain, during that conversation, when your dad was coming home?
# 30 MR. COCHRAN: You knew he was out of town at that point?
# 32 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you become aware at some point that he was coming home immediately?
# 34 MR. COCHRAN: And when was that?
# 35 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, later on that morning.
# 36 MR. COCHRAN: All right. All right. So then after this conversation with your dad, this second one, did you then--that conversation was concluded at some point; is that right?
# 38 MR. COCHRAN: Where did you next go?
# 39 MS. SIMPSON: I went into my room to change and I made some phone calls.
# 40 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you went back to your room?
# 42 MR. COCHRAN: And did you change clothes?
# 44 MR. COCHRAN: And who did you call at that point?
# 45 MS. SIMPSON: I called A.C., Al Cowlings. I called my mother. I called my brother and I called a friend.
# 46 MR. COCHRAN: All right. These calls you all made from your room; is that correct?
# 48 MR. COCHRAN: That was your phone?
# 50 MR. COCHRAN: When you talked to your dad this second time, had the subject matter of the children and their whereabouts, had that come up at all?
# 52 MR. COCHRAN: So the two of you talked about that?
# 54 MR. COCHRAN: Again, with regard to the children, did you share with your dad what the police had told you about the location of the children?
# 56 MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell your dad that you were going to get the kids?
# 58 MR. COCHRAN: And so when you went back to your room you made these phone calls you have described for us; is that right?
# 60 MR. COCHRAN: And you mentioned calling a Mr. Cowlings; is that correct?
# 62 MR. COCHRAN: And why did you call him?
# 63 MS. SIMPSON: Because I wanted him to go with me to go pick up Justin and Sydney.
# 64 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you talk to your brother, Jason?
# 66 MR. COCHRAN: And you mentioned talking to a friend named Joana?
# 68 MR. COCHRAN: Weren't you talking to a friend at that point?
# 70 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, at some point after you finished these conversations, you were dressed, what happened after that?
# 71 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I came back inside the house and at that time A.C. was on his way in. A.C. spoke with two of the detectives and then the detectives told A.C. where the kids were and then him and I went to go pick up Sydney and Justin.
# 72 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So now that we are clear, A.C. is Mr. Allan Cowlings that you have described for us; is that correct?
# 74 MR. COCHRAN: He did arrive and about what time was it that he arrived?
# 75 MS. SIMPSON: It had to have been around 6:30, a quarter to 7:00.
# 76 MR. COCHRAN: All right. To the best of your recollection what time did the police first come to your door, if you know?
# 77 MS. SIMPSON: Between 5:00 and 5:30.
# 80 MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you left the kitchen area on the way through the family room area and had this second conversation with your dad, did you see any other police officers in the house at that time?
# 82 MR. COCHRAN: When you went back to your room did you see any police officers outside at that point?
# 84 MR. COCHRAN: Describe for the jury what you saw and where they were located.
# 85 MS. SIMPSON: I saw Fuhrman and Kato.
KEY QUOTE # 86 MR. COCHRAN: Where were they?
# 87 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, standing a little bit further from the room that Kato was staying in.
# 88 MR. COCHRAN: In which direction, Miss Simpson?
# 89 (No audible response.) # 90 MR. COCHRAN: You can step all the way down if you need to.
# 91 MS. SIMPSON: (Witness complies.) Right here, (Indicating).
# 92 MR. COCHRAN: She is now indicating an area, your Honor, near the stairs and near the area depicting the stairs, partially in the patio area.
# 93 THE COURT: Appears to be in the southern most portion of the pool patio area.
# 95 MR. COCHRAN: They were standing at that location?
# 97 MR. COCHRAN: Did they still appear to be talking?
# 99 MR. COCHRAN: They were still outside; is that right?
# 101 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you see Detective Vannatter?
# 103 MR. COCHRAN: All right. When you left out of the house did you leave Lange and Phillips inside your father's house?
# 105 MR. COCHRAN: Was there anybody else at home at that time?
# 107 MR. COCHRAN: All right. How long were you out in your room getting ready and making these phone calls?
# 108 MS. SIMPSON: Ten to fifteen minutes.
# 109 MR. COCHRAN: After you got dressed and finished the phone calls, you came back inside the house?
# 111 MR. COCHRAN: And what route did you take coming back into the house, if you recall?
# 112 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, through the back door.
# 113 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Had you opened that back door yourself when you went out?
# 115 MR. COCHRAN: After you finished the conversation with your dad in the family room, you went out through the back door?
# 117 MR. COCHRAN: Can you point on the diagram again, People's 66, where that back door is?
# 118 MS. SIMPSON: Right here, (Indicating).
# 119 MR. COCHRAN: All right. She is indicating, your Honor, again on the eastern most part of the residence, an area which I presume appears to be a door leading from the residence.
# 121 MR. COCHRAN: So at that point there were only two officers left in the house?
# 123 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, after you finished and you came back in after ten or fifteen minutes, where did you go before you met Mr. A.C. Cowlings?
# 124 MS. SIMPSON: Back to the kitchen.
# 125 MR. COCHRAN: Back in the kitchen area?
# 127 MR. COCHRAN: When you got back there, who was present?
# 128 MS. SIMPSON: Nobody was in the kitchen.
# 129 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Where were the detectives at that point, if you know?
# 130 MS. SIMPSON: I didn't know.
# 131 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You just went back in the kitchen by yourself at this point?
# 133 MR. COCHRAN: Did you see Lange?
# 135 MR. COCHRAN: Did you see Phillips?
# 137 MR. COCHRAN: Where was Fuhrman at that point, if you know?
# 138 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, in the back speaking with Kato.
# 139 MR. COCHRAN: Still in that same area that you described there?
# 141 MR. COCHRAN: Where was Vannatter at that point?
# 142 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I don't know.
# 143 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And then how long did you stay in the kitchen before you became aware of Mr. Cowling's presence?
# 144 MS. SIMPSON: Very shortly, right after that.
# 145 MR. COCHRAN: He appeared?
# 146 MS. SIMPSON: In the kitchen.
# 147 MR. COCHRAN: And you saw him in the kitchen?
# 149 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you go and find a detective at that point?
# 150 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, no.
# 151 MR. COCHRAN: Or did a detective come in there? What happened?
# 152 MS. SIMPSON: One of the detectives came back inside the kitchen.
# 153 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Do you remember which one it was? Can you describe him?
# 154 MS. SIMPSON: I believe it was Lange.
# 155 MR. COCHRAN: All right. When he came back in, was there a brief conversation between Detective Lange and Mr. A.C. Cowlings?
# 157 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did the subject matter of that conversation deal with picking up the children?
# 159 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then how much time past before you left the Rockingham residence that morning to go and try to pick up your brother and sister?
# 160 MS. SIMPSON: Between fifteen and twenty minutes.
# 161 MR. COCHRAN: All right. About what time was it then by now that you were about ready to leave?
# 162 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, it I had to have been around seven o'clock, 7:15.
# 163 MR. COCHRAN: Again these are your best estimates?
# 165 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you and Mr. Cowlings leave at that point?
# 167 MR. COCHRAN: And did you go to the police station?
# 169 MR. COCHRAN: And did you arrange to pick up the children?
# 171 MR. COCHRAN: You did pick them up?
# 173 MR. COCHRAN: After you picked the children up, what did you do then?
# 174 MS. SIMPSON: We went back to 360 north Rockingham.
# 175 MR. COCHRAN: To your home, Rockingham?
# 177 MR. COCHRAN: Keep your voice up.
# 178 MS. SIMPSON: Thanks.
# 179 MR. COCHRAN: So do you know about what time it was that you actually left Rockingham to go pick up the children?
# 180 MS. SIMPSON: It had to have been around seven o'clock, maybe 7:15.
# 181 MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you left you've already described for us that the housekeeper was not there at that point; is that right?
# 183 MR. COCHRAN: Was there any other adult, other than Kato Kaelin, in and around 360 north Rockingham at the time that you left, other than the police officers?
# 185 MR. COCHRAN: And when you left were there four police officers there and Mr. Kato Kaelin was somewhere around there; is that right?
# 187 MR. COCHRAN: Did you see the four detectives and where they were when you left?
# 189 MR. COCHRAN: So now when you returned back to Rockingham, about what time is it now?
# 190 MS. SIMPSON: Between 7:15 and 7:30.
# 191 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when you come back, is it you, the children and Mr. Cowlings?
# 193 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Where did you go when you come back in?
# 194 MS. SIMPSON: To the kitchen.
# 195 MR. COCHRAN: Do you see anybody inside the kitchen?
# 197 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you see the detective when you get back?
# 198 MS. SIMPSON: Not right away, no.
# 199 MR. COCHRAN: All right. At some point after you get there do you see some or all of them?
# 201 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Tell us when you first observe a detective or detectives after you return from picking up the children at the police station?
# 202 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was in the kitchen and one of the detectives had come through the kitchen.
# 203 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were in there with the children?
# 205 MR. COCHRAN: And with A.C. Cowlings?
# 207 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Which detective was it, if you recall?
# 208 MS. SIMPSON: I don't recall.
# 209 MR. COCHRAN: All right. It was one of them?
# 211 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Did you have some conversation with him?
# 213 MR. COCHRAN: Did you see other detectives while you were back in the kitchen?
# 215 MR. COCHRAN: And when was that?
# 216 MS. SIMPSON: In the period that we were--I was trying to entertain the kids.
# 217 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were trying to keep the children occupied, were you?
# 219 MR. COCHRAN: And what were you doing?
# 220 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, Sydney had fallen asleep on the couch and Justin was playing Nintendo so I was playing with him.
# 221 MR. COCHRAN: There had been no mention of the tragedy that happened, obviously?
# 223 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So what happened after that as you tried to entertain Justin?
# 224 MS. SIMPSON: One of the detectives, I don't recall which one it was, told us that we had to leave the house.
# 225 MR. COCHRAN: You had to leave your own house?
# 227 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You don't recall which one it was?
# 229 MR. COCHRAN: Where were you when he told you you had to leave?
# 230 MS. SIMPSON: In the kitchen.
# 231 MR. COCHRAN: And when you were told that, what did you do at that time, if anything?
# 232 MS. SIMPSON: At that point, umm, I went to speak with A.C.
# 233 MR. COCHRAN: All right.
# 234 MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Cowlings.
# 235 MR. COCHRAN: Mr. Cowlings was somewhere in the house?
# 237 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you have a conversation with him?
# 239 MR. COCHRAN: Where did you have that conversation?
# 240 MS. SIMPSON: In the kitchen.
# 241 MR. COCHRAN: After that was some decision made with regard to the children?
# 243 MR. COCHRAN: Had you at some point that morning received a call from Miss Juditha Brown?
# 245 MR. COCHRAN: She called you back?
# 247 MR. COCHRAN: When was that?
# 248 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, after we had picked up the kids and during the period that we were just in the kitchen.
# 249 MR. COCHRAN: So you were back at the location?
# 251 MR. COCHRAN: She called?
# 253 MR. COCHRAN: You talked to her on the phone?
# 255 MR. COCHRAN: Did the subject matter of the children come up during that conversation?
# 257 MR. COCHRAN: And there was a conversation with you and Juditha Brown?
# 259 MR. COCHRAN: At some point that morning was a decision made to transport the children out to Juditha Brown's home in Orange County?
# 261 MR. COCHRAN: And who was to do that?
# 262 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, Mr. Cowlings.
# 263 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did he do that at some point?
# 265 MR. COCHRAN: Was this after the police had said you had to leave the house?
# 267 MR. COCHRAN: So he then left; is that right?
# 269 MR. COCHRAN: When you got back home from the police station and picking up the children, did you see Kato Kaelin at that point?
# 271 MR. COCHRAN: Where was he?
# 272 MS. SIMPSON: He was in the bar area.
# 273 MR. COCHRAN: In the bar area is generally where? And you might use the diagram again and use your pointer in making the relation to the TV room that we just previously described and the kitchen.
# 274 MS. SIMPSON: (Indicating).
# 275 MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, she is again indicating an area in the southern most portion of the residence, the bar area, not far where that door is that you go out.
# 276 THE COURT: Thank you.
# 277 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
# 278 MR. COCHRAN: What was Mr. Kaelin doing as he was seated in that bar area, if you recall?
# 279 MS. SIMPSON: Speaking with a detective.
# 280 MR. COCHRAN: Which detective was he speaking with, if you recall?
# 281 MS. SIMPSON: I believe it was Vannatter.
# 282 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you hear what they were saying?
# 284 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So Mr. Cowlings leaves with the children. You are there now and Kato is there; is that right?
# 286 MR. COCHRAN: And the four detectives are still somewhere around there; is that right?
# 288 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. What happens after that?
# 289 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, A.C. took the kids and took them to Laguna and I went into my room.
# 290 MR. COCHRAN: You went back to your room?
# 292 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Once you got to your room, what did you do then, if anything?
# 293 MS. SIMPSON: I was gathering my things and the phone rang.
# 294 MR. COCHRAN: You got another phone call?
# 296 MR. COCHRAN: Was your brother Jason there by this time?
# 298 MR. COCHRAN: Was it your brother on the phone?
# 300 MR. COCHRAN: Who called you then?
# 301 MS. SIMPSON: My father.
# 302 MR. COCHRAN: You talked to your father again?
# 304 MR. COCHRAN: This is now--this would be the third conversation with your dad that morning; is that right?
# 306 MR. COCHRAN: Again you can't tell us about that conversation, but in talking to your father and hearing his voice would you describe for the Court and jury again his demeanor, how he seemed and how he appeared to you at that point.
# 307 MS. SIMPSON: Upset, out of control, distraught, emotional.
KEY QUOTE # 308 MR. COCHRAN: Had you ever in your life ever heard him like that before?
# 310 MR. COCHRAN: Again, without telling us about that conversation, did the subject matter of that conversation concern when he was coming back to California?
# 312 MR. COCHRAN: Is that when you found out when he was coming back?
# 314 MR. COCHRAN: Did you ascertain he would be coming back very--as soon as possible?
# 316 MR. COCHRAN: On that date, June 13th?
# 318 MR. COCHRAN: It was in that conversation that you found that out?
# 320 MR. COCHRAN: How long did that conversation last?
# 321 MS. SIMPSON: Five to ten minutes.
# 322 MR. COCHRAN: Were you able to tell him during that conversation anything with regard to the kids, the children, because you now have the children, right?
# 324 MR. COCHRAN: Did that subject matter come up?
# 326 MR. COCHRAN: And would I be correct in assuming in that conversation he was still in Chicago, was he?
# 328 MR. COCHRAN: Your dad? Was there any one else present during that conversation, other than you?
# 330 MR. COCHRAN: After that conversation did you then get ready to leave the premises?
# 332 MR. COCHRAN: Had you made some arrangements for some place to go?
# 334 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what time was it by now, if you recall?
# 336 MR. COCHRAN: Your best recollection?
# 337 MS. SIMPSON: A quarter to 8:00, eight o'clock.
# 338 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what happened after that, after you--did you then leave the premises in your own car?
# 340 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Did somebody come and pick you up or take you?
# 342 MR. COCHRAN: Somebody else came then?
# 344 MR. COCHRAN: Who was that?
# 345 MS. SIMPSON: My brother Jason.
# 346 MR. COCHRAN: That is the gentleman we described earlier? That is your sibling; is that correct?
# 348 MR. COCHRAN: You are the oldest of the children?
# 350 MR. COCHRAN: And he is next in line to you, correct?
# 352 MR. COCHRAN: He came--did he come in the house also?
# 354 MR. COCHRAN: You went outside to where he was?
# 356 MR. COCHRAN: He did not come inside?
# 358 MR. COCHRAN: And with regard to your car, did you--did you try to take your car?
# 360 MR. COCHRAN: And what happened when you said you wanted to take your car?
# 361 MS. SIMPSON: They told me that I wasn't allowed to take my car.
# 362 MR. COCHRAN: So although you had to leave, you couldn't take your car; is that right?
# 363 MS. SIMPSON: Right.
# 364 MR. COCHRAN: So how did you finally leave the premises?
# 365 MS. SIMPSON: With my brother Jason.
# 366 MR. COCHRAN: So when Jason came he was going to take you someplace; is that correct?
# 368 MR. COCHRAN: Where did you go?
# 369 MS. SIMPSON: I went over to a friend's house.
# 370 MR. COCHRAN: And how long did you stay at this friend's house, if you recall?
# 371 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, the majority of the day.
# 372 MR. COCHRAN: Now, did there come a time when you had occasion to also speak with your mother, Miss Marguerite Thomas, on that date?
# 374 MR. COCHRAN: Did you talk to her at all while you were still at the Rockingham residence?
# 376 MR. COCHRAN: And where were you when you talked to her and made that call?
# 377 MS. SIMPSON: In my room.
# 378 MR. COCHRAN: Was that just before you left or at some earlier time?
# 379 MS. SIMPSON: Some earlier time.
# 380 MR. COCHRAN: It was the time before you went to get the children?
# 382 MR. COCHRAN: You told her what had happened?
# 384 MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion to talk to her later on when you went to your friend's house?
# 386 MR. COCHRAN: Did you stay at your friend's house all day?
# 387 MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
# 388 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 389 MS. CLARK: These are all leading questions.
# 390 THE COURT: Well, then you need to object in a timely manner. Proceed.
# 391 MR. COCHRAN: Tell us what you did after you were at your friend's house.
# 392 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was at my friend's house the majority of the day. I had called Cathy at some point. I fell asleep, woke up. I was watching TV, just talking, crying.
# 393 MR. COCHRAN: All right. How long did you stay at your friend's house, if you recall?
# 394 MS. SIMPSON: Until about 5:30, 6:00.
# 395 MR. COCHRAN: Did the police--when the police told you you had to leave your house, did they tell you when you could come back home?
# 397 MR. COCHRAN: So later in the evening, after 5:30, did you find out whether or not you could come back home?
# 399 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Was it after then that you left your friend's house and did you then come back to the Rockingham residence?
# 401 MR. COCHRAN: And to the best of your recollection, Miss Simpson, what time was it when you got back to Rockingham?
# 402 MS. SIMPSON: Around six o'clock, between 5:30 and six o'clock.
# 403 MR. COCHRAN: 5:30 and six o'clock on Monday, June 13th; is that correct?
# 405 MR. COCHRAN: So we have the time context, you had left about what time in the morning to leave to go to your friend's house?
# 406 MS. SIMPSON: Between 8:00 and 8:30.
# 407 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Before you came back to the house at 5:30, six o'clock in the evening, had you become aware that your dad was back in town?
# 409 MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
# 410 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 411 MR. COCHRAN: Did you become aware that your dad was back in town?
# 412 MS. CLARK: Same objection.
# 413 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 415 MR. COCHRAN: How did you become aware of that?
# 416 MS. SIMPSON: Through TV
# 417 MR. COCHRAN: You saw it on TV?
# 419 MR. COCHRAN: What did you see on TV?
# 420 MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay, irrelevant.
# 421 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 422 MS. SIMPSON: I saw my father walking into the house.
# 423 MR. COCHRAN: And so when you saw it, you knew it was back; is that right?
# 425 MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion that day or that afternoon to have still another conversation with your dad before you went back to Rockingham?
# 427 MR. COCHRAN: Where was he at that time, if you know, at the time of this conversation?
# 428 MS. SIMPSON: He was at his office.
# 429 MR. COCHRAN: And that is--whereabouts is that office?
# 430 MS. SIMPSON: In Brentwood off of San Vicente.
# 431 MR. COCHRAN: And during that conversation--again you can't tell us about the content of that conversation--but with regard to his demeanor, can you describe how he appeared to you as you talked to him on the phone during this conversation in the afternoon hours I guess of June 13th, 1994?
# 432 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he was very quiet. Umm, just still upset, but just--there weren't a lot of words said on his part, but on my part. He was just very emotional.
# 433 MR. COCHRAN: Had you ever seen him so emotional before in that conversation?
# 434 MS. SIMPSON: No, never.
# 435 MR. COCHRAN: All right. After that--after that conversation--about what time was that conversation?
# 436 MS. SIMPSON: Between 4:00 and 5:00.
# 437 MR. COCHRAN: All right. After that conversation, within an hour or so, you came back home; is that right?
# 439 MR. COCHRAN: Were you aware that he would be coming home at or around that time?
# 441 MR. COCHRAN: And was that based upon some discussions you had had with him?
# 442 MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
# 443 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 445 MR. COCHRAN: Did you know what time your dad was going to be coming back home?
# 447 MR. COCHRAN: And did you try to time your arrival so you could get back about the same time?
# 448 MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
# 449 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 450 MR. COCHRAN: All right.
# 451 MR. COCHRAN: How did you time your arrival in getting back home?
# 452 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, to what was said through our conversation.
# 453 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Okay. I want you to describe for the Court and jury again what you saw when you arrived back at Rockingham.
# 454 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, there were a lot of police cars, media, a lot of commotion, just a lot of people in front and inside the house in the grounds of the house.
# 455 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, when you left in the morning hours sometime maybe at around 8:00 or shortly after eight o'clock, did you see many police cars around at that point, if you recall?
# 457 MR. COCHRAN: Can you give an estimate? Can you think back and give us an estimate how many police cars you saw even as early as eight o'clock?
# 458 MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
# 459 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 460 MS. SIMPSON: One or two.
# 461 MR. COCHRAN: Can you characterize that with the number you see when you came back at 5:30 in the evening?
# 462 MS. SIMPSON: There had to be more like four or five.
# 463 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Were you allowed to come on the premises at that time?
# 465 MR. COCHRAN: When you got there, tell us what happened.
# 466 MS. SIMPSON: When I got there, umm, I attempted to go through the gate and the police officer told me that I wasn't allowed to go in and that he would find out when I could go in.
# 467 MR. COCHRAN: Is this a uniformed police officer?
# 469 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then what happened after that?
# 470 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he left and then came back and he told me I could go--go in.
# 471 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So then you came inside the residence?
# 473 MR. COCHRAN: And where did you go at that point?
# 474 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I went into the house, I went into the kitchen and then into the TV room.
# 475 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when you got inside the TV room did you see some people therein?
# 477 MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, so we are clear, what time was this, approximately?
# 478 MS. SIMPSON: 6:00, 6:30.
# 479 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when you got in there in the TV room which you had previously described, would you describe for the jury again whom you saw there.
# 480 MS. SIMPSON: I saw my father, I saw my grandmother, my Aunt Shirley and some of my dad's friends.
# 481 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And your aunt Shirley, that is your brother's sister; is that correct?
# 483 MR. COCHRAN: She stepped out of the courtroom now?
# 485 MR. COCHRAN: And your grandmother is whom, Miss Eunice Simpson?
# 487 MR. COCHRAN: You saw some friends in and around there?
# 489 MR. COCHRAN: Now, this is the first time you saw your dad; is that right, that day?
# 491 MR. COCHRAN: Will you describe for the jury how your dad appeared to you when you saw him, your dad?
# 492 MS. SIMPSON: He was very emotionless, he was numb, he was quiet, just sitting on the couch. He was holding my grandmother's hand. I walked over to him and I hugged him and I asked him if he was okay and he just kind of locked at me and I was just trying to comfort him because I didn't know what else to do.
KEY QUOTE # 493 MR. COCHRAN: A tough time for him?
# 495 MR. COCHRAN: Sitting on the couch close to his mother?
# 497 MR. COCHRAN: They were holding hands?
# 499 MR. COCHRAN: Was he talking to his mother at all?
# 501 MR. COCHRAN: Where were these friends of his at that point, if you recall?
# 502 MS. SIMPSON: Sitting around in the TV room and over at the bar area.
# 503 MR. COCHRAN: And where was Miss Shirley Baker, his sister?
# 504 MS. SIMPSON: She was in the TV room, too.
# 505 MR. COCHRAN: Were the TV's on at that point?
# 507 MR. COCHRAN: Now, after you got there, were there other friends who came by?
# 508 (No audible response.) # 509 MR. COCHRAN: After your arrival, did somebody arrive after--friends arrive after you got there?
# 511 MR. COCHRAN: Do you remember any of the names of any who came by that evening?
# 512 MS. SIMPSON: Joe Stellini, Ron Shipp, Ron Fischman, my Aunt Carmelita.
# 513 MR. COCHRAN: That is Carmelita Durio?
# 515 MR. COCHRAN: And she arrived at some point?
# 517 MR. COCHRAN: Anybody else?
# 518 MS. SIMPSON: I believe that is it.
# 519 MR. COCHRAN: Do you remember at some point that evening that Carmelita's husband came?
# 521 MR. COCHRAN: What is his name?
# 522 MS. SIMPSON: Charles.
# 523 MR. COCHRAN: What about your aunt Shirley's husband, was he there at any time?
# 525 MR. COCHRAN: What is his name?
# 526 MS. SIMPSON: Bennie.
# 527 MR. COCHRAN: At some point that evening did you see them?
# 529 MR. COCHRAN: So many of the family members came; is that correct?
# 531 MR. COCHRAN: Do you remember seeing Ron Shipp there?
# 533 MR. COCHRAN: I want you to describe for the Court and jury--did you know Ron Shipp before this time?
# 535 MR. COCHRAN: How did you know him?
# 536 MS. SIMPSON: Through my father. He would come by the house periodically.
# 537 MR. COCHRAN: When he came by the house, what would you see him doing, if anything?
# 538 MS. SIMPSON: Playing tennis or in the Jacuzzi.
# 539 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, you saw him this particular evening?
# 541 MR. COCHRAN: When you saw him, what was he doing, if anything?
# 542 MS. SIMPSON: He was sitting at the bar.
# 543 MR. COCHRAN: Was he doing anything at the bar? Just sitting there?
# 545 MR. COCHRAN: What was that?
# 546 MS. SIMPSON: He was having a drink.
# 547 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you see him have one drink or more than one drink or what?
# 548 MS. SIMPSON: I saw him have at least one drink.
# 549 MR. COCHRAN: All right. What was he drinking, if you recall?
# 550 MS. SIMPSON: A beer.
# 551 MR. COCHRAN: Did you talk to him at all?
# 552 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, yes.
# 553 MR. COCHRAN: You had a conversation with him?
# 554 MS. SIMPSON: A short conversation with him.
# 555 MR. COCHRAN: What did he say to you, if anything?
# 556 MS. SIMPSON: He just came over to comfort me.
# 557 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you say much to him or anything to him?
# 558 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, just, you know, thank you and we are going to get through this. "How are you doing?"
# 559 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, did he remain at all times in this same area that you saw him in when you first saw him that evening?
# 561 MR. COCHRAN: And where was that?
# 562 MS. SIMPSON: At the bar area.
# 563 MR. COCHRAN: All right. That is a little bit off the area where the family room is; is that correct?
# 565 MR. COCHRAN: Now, did you continue to stay in the family room with the rest of the family?
# 566 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, off and on, yes.
# 567 MR. COCHRAN: With regard to Shipp, did you ever see him leave or move from that area while you were still there, the area of the bar?
# 569 MR. COCHRAN: He remained there?
# 571 MR. COCHRAN: And how long, from the first time you saw him, to the time you last saw him that evening, did he remain in the bar area?
# 572 MS. SIMPSON: Maybe a little more--an hour, maybe a little over an hour.
# 573 MR. COCHRAN: Do you know if he had been drinking when he arrived there that day?
# 575 MR. COCHRAN: Did you--were you able to tell whether or not he appeared intoxicated or not intoxicated or how did he appear?
# 576 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I couldn't say.
# 577 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You saw him with the one beer; is that right?
# 579 MR. COCHRAN: Now, was he a close friend of your father, if you know?
# 581 MR. COCHRAN: And was he somebody you had seen over there?
# 582 MS. SIMPSON: Sometimes, yes.
# 583 MR. COCHRAN: Now, had you seen him over at the house within the week or so previous to this, Mr. Shipp?
# 585 MR. COCHRAN: He had never been out to dinner with your dad, though, had he?
# 586 MS. SIMPSON: Not to my knowledge, no.
KEY QUOTE # 587 MS. CLARK: Objection. That calls for speculation.
# 588 MR. COCHRAN: If you know.
# 589 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 590 MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to this time that you had seen him over at the house before that, describe what you saw him doing, if anything. This is the week before--
# 592 MR. COCHRAN: --this incident? What did you observe, if anything?
# 593 MS. SIMPSON: He was playing tennis and then later on in that evening he was in the Jacuzzi.
# 594 MR. COCHRAN: Was he with anybody else in the Jacuzzi? Was anybody else in the Jacuzzi with him?
# 596 MR. COCHRAN: Who was that?
# 597 MS. SIMPSON: A lady.
# 598 MR. COCHRAN: Describe her for us.
# 599 MS. SIMPSON: She was tall, blond, like dirty blond.
# 600 MR. COCHRAN: And now, describe for us was this in the evening?
# 602 MR. COCHRAN: And what was he--was he sitting in the Jacuzzi?
# 604 MR. COCHRAN: Was he drinking at all at that point?
# 606 MR. COCHRAN: What was he drinking, if you know?
# 607 MS. SIMPSON: A beer.
# 608 MR. COCHRAN: Did you talk to him at that point?
# 610 MR. COCHRAN: How close did you get to him and this particular lady?
# 611 MS. SIMPSON: I was standing right over the Jacuzzi.
# 612 MR. COCHRAN: You had a conversation?
# 614 MR. COCHRAN: Were you able to ascertain whether or not he appeared to be intoxicated at that point?
# 615 MS. CLARK: Objection?
# 617 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 618 MR. COCHRAN: All right. This conversation that you had with him, how long did it last?
# 619 MS. SIMPSON: Five minutes.
# 620 MR. COCHRAN: Did you talk to the lady?
# 622 MR. COCHRAN: Do you know whether or not your father was home at that time when he was using the Jacuzzi with this lady?
# 624 MR. COCHRAN: Was your father at home?
# 626 MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever see your father out there in the Jacuzzi area where he was?
# 628 MR. COCHRAN: May I have just a moment, your Honor?
# 629 THE COURT: Certainly.
# 630 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.) # 631 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel and the Defendant.) # 632 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
# 633 MR. COCHRAN: Now, going back to the family room where everybody was gathered after you came back in the house, how long did you stay in the family room before you had occasion to go some other place, if you recall?
# 634 MS. SIMPSON: Maybe twenty minutes.
# 635 MR. COCHRAN: And about what time was it--would it be by that time? What time would it be?
# 636 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, between 7:30 and 8:00.
# 637 MR. COCHRAN: And then where did you go?
# 638 MS. SIMPSON: To my room, to the kitchen.
# 639 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you would go in other part of the house?
# 641 MR. COCHRAN: And would you come back in?
# 643 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And so off and on you would leave the room and would you come back in; is that right?
# 645 MR. COCHRAN: And what time did you last see your dad that evening, if you know approximately what type was it?
# 646 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, after eight o'clock.
# 647 MR. COCHRAN: And when you saw him the last time, did he leave the room or did you leave the room?
# 648 MS. SIMPSON: He left the room.
# 649 MR. COCHRAN: You were still there when he left the room?
# 651 MR. COCHRAN: And you described for us before that he had been seated on the couch holding his mother's hand, right--
# 653 MR. COCHRAN: --when you came back? At a time before he left the room, where was he seated and who was he seated with at that time?
# 654 MS. SIMPSON: He was seated with my grandmother, my aunt Shirley, Bob Kardashian was there and some of his friends were coming and going at that time.
# 655 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So still basically in the family room; is that correct?
# 657 MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to his demeanor and how he appeared, describe again for the jury how he appeared before he left the room to go some other place? How did he appear to you then?
# 658 MS. SIMPSON: He was just very upset. He was crying off and on. We were watching the news and he kept talking to the TV saying, you know, "I can't believe this."
KEY QUOTE # 659 MS. CLARK: Objection, objection.
# 660 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 661 MS. SIMPSON: Sorry.
# 662 MR. COCHRAN: You can't tell us what he said to the TV, but would he make statements?
# 664 MR. COCHRAN: You could hear those statements?
# 666 MR. COCHRAN: Describe his demeanor as he made those statements.
# 667 MS. SIMPSON: In shock, upset, in disbelief, just--just emotional, just--
# 668 MR. COCHRAN: Again, had you ever seen him this way before in your life?
# 670 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you saw him in this--in this condition, and tell us what--what occurred when you prepared to leave at that point.
# 671 MS. SIMPSON: He was tired and, umm, it was suggested that he go upstairs and lie down.
# 672 MR. COCHRAN: And when he left the room, did he leave with anyone at that point?
# 674 MR. COCHRAN: And who did he leave with at that point?
# 675 MS. SIMPSON: Bob Kardashian.
# 676 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You saw he and Bob leave?
# 678 MR. COCHRAN: Did you see either one of your aunts go with him?
# 680 MR. COCHRAN: Which aunt went with him?
# 681 MS. SIMPSON: My aunt Shirley.
# 682 MR. COCHRAN: As they left the room, in which direction did they go?
# 683 MS. SIMPSON: Toward the front of the house.
# 684 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you go with him at that point?
# 686 MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you saw Kardashian and your aunt Shirley leave and they left out of your sight; is that correct?
# 687 MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh.
# 688 THE COURT: Is that yes?
# 690 MR. COCHRAN: Are the bedrooms of that house located upstairs, up some stairs?
# 692 MR. COCHRAN: Is the carpet very, very light, almost white?
# 693 MS. CLARK: Objection, your Honor, leading.
# 694 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 695 MR. COCHRAN: At that date back on June 13th, 1994, what color was the carpeting on the stairs and going up the stairs into your father's bedroom?
# 696 MS. SIMPSON: White.
# 697 MR. COCHRAN: And the carpet in his bedroom was what color?
# 698 MS. SIMPSON: Like an off-white.
# 699 MR. COCHRAN: You came in that doorway that morning, let those police officers in after turning the alarm off. Did you ever see any blood spots in the foyer area of that residence?
# 701 MR. COCHRAN: You were out and around the driveway area that day, were you?
# 703 MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever see any blood spots in the driveway area?
# 705 MR. COCHRAN: So did you remain in the family room after your father had left?
# 707 MR. COCHRAN: Where did you go?
# 708 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was in and out the house, my room, the kitchen, upstairs.
# 709 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were there when your father left and then you had occasion to leave that area yourself; is that right?
# 711 MR. COCHRAN: When you--after your father left with your aunt and with Bob Kardashian, was Ron Shipp still in that bar area?
# 713 MR. COCHRAN: Was he still--had a beer before him at that point?
# 714 MS. SIMPSON: I believe so.
# 715 MR. COCHRAN: You were still there?
# 716 MS. SIMPSON: Pardon me?
# 717 MR. COCHRAN: Were you still downstairs there?
# 719 MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever see him leave?
# 721 MR. COCHRAN: He was still there when you left; is that correct?
# 723 MR. COCHRAN: Now, ultimately that night did you go back to your room?
# 725 MR. COCHRAN: Do you know about what time that was?
# 726 MS. SIMPSON: Around between 10:00 and 11:00.
# 727 MR. COCHRAN: And before going to your room did you have occasion to ever go upstairs to your dad's room at all?
# 729 MR. COCHRAN: When was that that you went upstairs to your dad's room?
# 730 MS. SIMPSON: Shortly after he had gone upstairs and then before I went to my room.
# 731 MR. COCHRAN: You went up to see your dad?
# 733 MR. COCHRAN: When you got upstairs, describe for the Court and jury what you saw when you got upstairs.
# 734 MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he was lying down and, umm, my aunt Shirley was putting a face towel, cold face towel over his forehead.
# 735 MR. COCHRAN: And he was lying in his bed?
# 737 MR. COCHRAN: So you saw Miss Shirley Baker in the bedroom?
# 739 MR. COCHRAN: Did you see anyone else up there at that point?
# 740 MS. SIMPSON: My uncle Bennie, Ron Fischman.
# 741 MR. COCHRAN: Is he a doctor?
# 743 MR. COCHRAN: All right. And your uncle Bennie is married to your aunt Shirley; is that correct?
# 745 MR. COCHRAN: And when you were up there at that point did you have any further conversation with your dad?
# 747 MR. COCHRAN: And again, you can't tell us about that conversation, but how did your father appear or seem to you this time when you saw him laying in his bed where he had the washcloth across his forehead?
# 748 MS. SIMPSON: Very tired, umm, kind of lifeless. He was just--so hard to explain because there was so much going on and it was so emotional, and I was just trying to comfort him because he just seemed like he didn't know what to do.
# 749 MR. COCHRAN: All right. You had never seen him that way before?
# 750 MS. SIMPSON: No, never.
# 751 MR. COCHRAN: The time that you saw Shipp until the last time you saw him that evening, did he always have a drink in his hand?
# 752 MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
# 753 THE COURT: Sustained.
# 754 MS. CLARK: Misstates the testimony.
# 755 MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever see Mr. Shipp that evening when he didn't have a beer with him?
# 756 MS. CLARK: Objection, misstates the testimony.
# 757 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 758 MS. CLARK: Leading.
# 759 MS. SIMPSON: I can't say.
# 760 MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, how long did you stay with your dad when you were upstairs in the bedroom?
# 761 MS. SIMPSON: Ten to fifteen minutes.
# 762 MR. COCHRAN: Did his demeanor, the way he appeared to you, remain pretty much the same during that period of time?
# 764 MR. COCHRAN: Then did you have occasion to leave?
# 766 MR. COCHRAN: And then where did you go at that point?
# 767 MS. SIMPSON: Back downstairs.
# 768 MR. COCHRAN: At some point you went back to your room?
# 770 MR. COCHRAN: And you did not see him any more that night?
# 771 MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
# 772 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 773 MR. COCHRAN: Did you see him any more that night?
# 774 THE COURT: Overruled.
# 776 MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
# 777 MR. COCHRAN: Now, your dad has a--you have had occasion to go into your dad's closet, have you not?
# 779 MR. COCHRAN: On occasions? Many occasions?
# 781 MR. COCHRAN: And you described for us how you moved back in March of `93 or thereabouts. And you have seen how your father dresses on occasion, have you not?
# 783 MR. COCHRAN: Have you ever seen your father wear a dark blue cotton like sweatsuit at any point?
# 785 MR. COCHRAN: At any time during that time frame that you moved back, from March, `93 through June of `94, did you ever see him so dressed in a blue, dark blue or black cotton like sweatsuit at all?
# 787 MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to--I would like to back up for a moment to make sure that I'm not confused. With regard to the time when Miss Nicole Brown Simpson lived on Gretna Green, you remember that?
# 789 MR. COCHRAN: You have been to that location, have you?
# 791 MR. COCHRAN: When--what dates do you recall that she lived at the Gretna Green location?
# 792 MS. SIMPSON: She lived there from the time that I moved back home, which was in `92, until the end--the beginning of `94.
# 793 MR. COCHRAN: The beginning of `94?
# 795 MR. COCHRAN: She moved from Gretna Green to where?
# 796 MS. SIMPSON: To Bundy.