📄 Session closing — Monday, February 6, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\6\SESSION-CLOSING.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 13 of 167

Session closing

Date: Monday, February 6, 1995 • Utterances: 79
After discharging the witness and recessing the jury, the court held a brief out-of-presence session to address housekeeping matters: Cochran complained about not receiving witness lists three days in advance, Clark previewed exhibits and photographs from the Mezzaluna restaurant for upcoming testimony, Darden pressed for a ruling on the ESPN tape, and the parties discussed logistics for an upcoming jury view of the crime scene. The session ended with a demonstration of a 'telestrator' (point maker) device the prosecution planned to use.
1 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MA'AM, PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE EXCEPT FOR THE LAWYERS ON THE CASE. THAT ORDER IS IN EFFECT UNTIL THE END OF THE TRIAL. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

2 THE WITNESS:

YES.

3 THE COURT:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN. ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER WITNESSES AVAILABLE THIS AFTERNOON?

4 MR. DARDEN:

NO, I DO NOT, YOUR HONOR.

5 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, ONE OF THE HARDEST JOBS OF A TRIAL ATTORNEY IN ANY CASE IS TO DETERMINE HOW LONG A WITNESS' TESTIMONY IS GOING TO TAKE AND HOW LONG THE CROSS-EXAMINATION WILL TAKE BY THE OTHER SIDE, AND OFTEN TIMES WE MISCALCULATE ON THOSE. APPARENTLY THE PROSECUTION DOES NOT HAVE ANY FURTHER WITNESSES TO PRESENT THIS AFTERNOON. SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS AT THIS TIME. SOMETIMES, WE'LL HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH WITNESSES AND SOMETIMES WE WON'T HAVE ENOUGH. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE DAY. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T LET ANYBODY TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T PERFORM ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. ALL RIGHT. HAVE A PLEASANT EVENING TODAY AND SEE YOU TOMORROW MORNING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS.

6 MR. COCHRAN:

JUDGE, I WANTED TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE RECORD.

7 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
8 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THE JURY HAS WITHDRAWN FROM THE COURTROOM. COUNSEL, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO PUT ON THE RECORD?

9 MR. COCHRAN:

YES. I JUST WANTED TO PUT ON THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, THAT WE'VE HAVING A LITTLE PROBLEM WITH GETTING THREE DAYS' NAMES OF WITNESSES. I WAS JUST TALKING TO MISS CLARK ABOUT IT. WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IT CLEAR WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY AND THURSDAY. I KNOW THESE THINGS CHANGE, BUT WE NEED TO KNOW WHO THESE WITNESSES ARE BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY BOOKS AND REPORTS TO THIS CASE, WE DON'T WANT TO GET CUT SHORT. WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO DO IS WRITE THEM OUT SO I UNDERSTAND WHO THEY'RE GOING TO CALL ON TUESDAY, WHO THEY'RE GOING TO CALL ON WEDNESDAY AND THURSDAY AND BE PREPARED TO BRING IT DOWN HERE THE NEXT DAY.

10 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. I THOUGHT I MADE THAT ORDER AND I THOUGHT I MADE IT CLEAR TO BOTH SIDES.

11 MR. COCHRAN:

YES, YOU DID, BUT IT'S NOT WORKING QUITE AS WELL AS IT COULD. PERHAPS MISS CLARK --

12 MS. CLARK:

I'LL WRITE THEM DOWN RIGHT NOW.

13 MR. COCHRAN:

AS FAR AS YOU CAN GO.

14 MS. CLARK:

YEAH.

15 MR. DARDEN:

I THOUGHT IT WORKED QUITE WELL WITH MY WITNESS LIST, DIDN'T IT?

16 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, YOU RAN OUT, BUT --

17 MR. DARDEN:

UNTIL I RAN OUT. BUT THEY KNEW I WAS GOING TO RUN OUT. THE COURT EARLIER ORDERED THE DEFENSE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE ESPN TAPE. WOULD THE COURT ORDER THEM TO LOOK AT THE TAPE BEFORE THEY LEAVE TODAY, THE ENTIRE 30-MINUTE TAPE, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO SO THAT I CAN FINALLY PERHAPS PLAY IT IN FRONT OF THE JURY IN THIS CASE?

18 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN, YOU'LL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY THIS EVENING TO LOOK AT THE TAPE?

19 MR. COCHRAN:

WHEN HAVE I HAD TIME TO DO IT? I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO.

20 MR. DARDEN:

ANOTHER THING, MR. COCHRAN KEEPS PICKING ON ME. I KNOW HE LOVES ME, LOVES ME LIKE A SON, BUT I'M GETTING TIRED OF THIS STEP DAD THING.

KEY QUOTE
21 MR. COCHRAN:

JUDGE, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY -- I'LL DEAL WITH HIM LATER ON, YOUR HONOR, BUT I'M GLAD TO WATCH THE VIDEO. I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE YET, BUT HE HAS -- DO YOU HAVE THE ENTIRE TAPE HERE?

22 MR. DARDEN:

I GAVE YOU A COPY THIS MORNING.

23 MR. COCHRAN:

BUT I DON'T HAVE A VCR IN MY BRIEFCASE, BUT I WILL WATCH IT THIS EVENING AND CALL MR. DARDEN.

24 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

25 MR. DARDEN:

I'M PLAYING IT TOMORROW. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

26 MS. CLARK:

YOUR HONOR, I HAVE SOME EXHIBITS TO SHOW TO COUNSEL THAT I WOULD LIKE TO USE TOMORROW AND --

27 THE COURT:

THIS IS IN THE NATURE OF SHOW AND TELL?

28 MS. CLARK:

THAT'S RIGHT.

29 THE COURT:

SHOW THEM TO COUNSEL.

30 MS. CLARK:

I WILL. AND I'M APPRISING THE COURT SO WE HAVE IT ON THE RECORD.

31 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

32 MS. CLARK:

ALSO, I ASKED COUNSEL TO ALLOW ME TO ADD ONE WITNESS TO THE LIST OF WITNESSES THAT WILL BE COMING UP TOMORROW AND THE NEXT DAY, VERY BRIEF WITNESS. SHE IS NOT REALLY PERCIPIENT TO ANYTHING, BUT SHE DOES KIND OF EXPLAIN HOW THE OFFICERS GOT THERE AND COUNSEL IS AWARE OF HER STATEMENT. IT'S VERY, VERY BRIEF. HER NAME IS ELSI TISTAERT, T-I-S-T-A-E-R-T. I BELIEVE COUNSEL INDICATED THAT THERE WOULD BE NO OBJECTION TO HER ADDITION.

33 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT WITNESS. AND I WILL REMIND MISS CLARK THAT I DIDN'T OBJECT. IT MAY COME UP ON OUR SIDE AT ONE POINT, AND I WANT THE COURT TO REMEMBER THAT.

34 MS. CLARK:

IF IT'S A WITNESS OF THIS MINOR SIGNIFICANCE, THEN WE WON'T.

35 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

36 MS. CLARK:

DOES THE COURT WANT TO SEE THE EXHIBITS?

37 THE COURT:

WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? WHY DON'T YOU SHOW THEM TO COUNSEL; AND IF THERE'S ANY OBJECTION, THEN I'M AVAILABLE TO RULE ON ANY OBJECTIONS.

38 MS. CLARK:

WE ALSO HAVE THE TELESTRATOR THAT WE WANTED TO SHOW TO THE COURT AND COUNSEL.

39 MR. DARDEN:

POINT MAKER.

40 MS. CLARK:

IT'S A POINT MAKER.

41 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. WHAT ARE THOSE, MISS CLARK?

42 MS. CLARK:

THESE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS -- MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

43 THE COURT:

SURE.

44 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MS. CLARK AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)
45 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK, WHY DON'T YOU USE THE PODIUM SO THE COURT REPORTER CAN HEAR YOUR COMMENTS.

46 MS. CLARK:

THOSE EIGHT BY TEN'S THAT I'VE JUST SHOWN TO COUNSEL, THEY WILL BE ON BIG BOARDS.

47 MR. COCHRAN:

THESE?

48 MS. CLARK:

YES. YEAH. THAT'S JUST A SMALL REPRESENTATION OF THEM, AND THERE WILL BE ICONS ON THE MAP OF THE BUNDY AREA, ICONS SHOWING WHERE EVERYBODY IS.

49 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, CAN I SEE THOSE IN THE MORNING? I MEAN I'M TRYING TO VISUALIZE.

50 MS. CLARK:

JUST LITTLE HOUSES.

51 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
52 MR. COCHRAN:

I WAS TRYING TO REACH A STIPULATION TO SAVE SOME COURT TIME.

53 MS. CLARK:

IT WON'T TAKE VERY LONG. IT WILL BE VERY BRIEF. THE PEOPLE WHO WILL IDENTIFY THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR, WILL BE NON-RELATIVES. THEY WILL BE PEOPLE FROM THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT WHO SAW THEM ON THIS DATE. SO THESE ARE THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THE PEOPLE PROPOSE TO USE OF THE VICTIMS.

54 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. ANY OBJECTION, OBJECTIONS TO THESE EXHIBITS, MR. COCHRAN?

55 MR. COCHRAN:

NO. NOT AT THIS POINT, YOUR HONOR. I WOULD LIKE TO RESERVE OVERNIGHT, BUT WE'RE WILLING TO STIPULATE TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS. COUNSEL ASSURES ME THAT THESE WILL BE FROM SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT RELATED. BUT WE ARE WILLING TO STIPULATE THAT THOSE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS IN LIFE AND THERE'S NO QUESTION NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON AND MR. RONALD GOLDMAN ARE THE VICTIMS IN THIS CASE, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, AND MISS CLARK WILL THINK ABOUT THAT OVERNIGHT TO SAVE SOME TIME.

56 MS. CLARK:

BUT I THINK MAYBE THERE'S SOME OTHER USE, THAT THEY WERE AT THE MEZZALUNA AND THEY IDENTIFIED THESE PERSONS AS HAVING BEEN THERE. THAT'S THE OFFER RATHER THAN THE IDENTITY OF THE VICTIMS. THAT'S A DIFFERENT PURPOSE THAN THE NORMAL STIPULATION TO THE IDENTITY OF THE VICTIMS. SO THAT'S WHY THEY'RE BEING IDENTIFIED BY THOSE PARTICULAR PEOPLE.

57 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

58 MS. CLARK:

THAT'S IT FOR TOMORROW. I'M GOING TO TRY TO HAVE EVERYTHING, ALL OF THE EXHIBITS THAT I INTEND TO USE READY TO SHOW COUNSEL TOMORROW, AND THAT SHOULD BE FOR THE BALANCE OF THE WITNESSES THAT I WILL BE CALLING FOR THE NEXT WEEK OR SO.

59 MR. COCHRAN:

WHAT TIME WILL THAT BE, WILL YOU GET HERE?

60 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK, ARE WE ABOUT TO START EXAMINING THE EVENTS OF JUNE THE 12TH --

61 MS. CLARK:

YES, WE ARE.

62 THE COURT:

-- IN THE MID P.M. HOURS?

63 MS. CLARK:

YES, WE ARE, YOUR HONOR. WE WILL BEGIN TOMORROW WITH THE WITNESSES FROM THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT AND PROCEED THEN TO WITNESSES WHO HEARD DOGS BARKING AND MOVE INTO THE FIRST OFFICERS AT THE CRIME SCENE. IT'S HARD FOR ME TO KNOW HOW LONG COUNSEL WILL TAKE ON CROSS-EXAMINATION WITH ANY OF THESE PARTICULAR WITNESSES. I CAN ANTICIPATE CERTAIN THINGS, BUT IT'S REAL HARD TO KNOW FOR SURE. BUT IT'S PROBABLY A FAIR ESTIMATE THAT WE WOULD GET TO A JURY VIEW ON THURSDAY. I HAVE AN ITINERARY THAT HAS BEEN TYPED UP, AND I INTEND TO SUBMIT IT TO THE COURT WITH SOME IDEAS FOR DIRECTIONS TO THE JURY SO THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THE EVIDENCE WAS LOCATED, AND WE SHOULD PROBABLY BROACH THAT TOMORROW.

64 MR. COCHRAN:

I WOULD LIKE A LIST, YOUR HONOR. I THINK MISS CLARK SAID SHE WOULD GIVE US A LIST.

65 THE COURT:

I HAD ASKED FOR AN ITINERARY, AND OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE OF THE LOGISTICS INVOLVED IN A JURY SCENE VIEW, I NEED A LITTLE MORE LEAD TIME THAN, OH, BY THE WAY, LET'S DO IT THURSDAY. LET ME TALK TO COUNSEL WITHOUT THE COURT REPORTER.

66 (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)
67 THE COURT:

COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO PUT ON THE RECORD BEFORE WE TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE AFTERNOON?

68 MR. COCHRAN:

NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

69 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK?

70 MS. CLARK:

NO, YOUR HONOR.

71 MR. BAILEY:

DID YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE TELESTRATOR?

72 MS. CLARK:

PERHAPS THE COURT WANTED TO LOOK AT THE TELESTRATOR, SEE HOW THAT WORKS. BUT ALSO, ARE WE GOING TO TAKE UP THE ISSUE TOMORROW MORNING OF THE BOB BLAISER AND MARK HARMON ARGUMENT?

73 THE COURT:

I ASSUME SO. BUT THAT DEPENDS. MR. BLAISER INDICATED THAT HE WAS GOING TO FILE SOMETHING WITH ME EITHER LATE THIS AFTERNOON OR FIRST THING TOMORROW MORNING. IF IT'S FIRST THING TOMORROW MORNING, THEN I HAVE GOT TO OBVIOUSLY TAKE SOME TIME TO READ WHAT HE SUBMITS. I DON'T KNOW. SO I HOPE TO GET THIS RESOLVED THOUGH TOMORROW BECAUSE WE NEED TO GET THIS STUFF ON ITS WAY.

74 MS. CLARK:

RIGHT.

75 THE COURT:

OKAY.

76 MR. BAILEY:

YOUR HONOR, I STAYED OVER THE LUNCH HOUR WHILE THEY WERE SETTING UP THIS PIECE OF EQUIPMENT. I EXPECT WE WILL HAVE NO OBJECTION TO ITS USE. IT WAS INTRODUCED TO AMERICA BY JOHN MADDEN, WHO IS GENERALLY A SECOND-GUESS QUARTERBACK. I WONDERED IF THAT'S WHY THE PROSECUTION WAS GOING TO USE IT FOR THIS CASE.

77 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS AND THE COURT WILL OBSERVE A DEMONSTRATION OF THAT AND WE'LL SEE IF THERE'S ANY PROBLEM WITH IT. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE --

78 MR. FAIRTLOUGH:

YOUR HONOR, IT WILL TAKE ABOUT 15 MINUTES TO GET IT TECHNICALLY SET UP.

79 (AT 4:20 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (3)

Christopher Darden
ANOTHER THING, MR. COCHRAN KEEPS PICKING ON ME. I KNOW HE LOVES ME, LOVES ME LIKE A SON, BUT I'M GETTING TIRED OF THIS STEP DAD THING.
Rare moment of levity between opposing counsel, revealing the informal dynamic between Darden and Cochran.
F. Lee Bailey
IT WAS INTRODUCED TO AMERICA BY JOHN MADDEN, WHO IS GENERALLY A SECOND-GUESS QUARTERBACK. I WONDERED IF THAT'S WHY THE PROSECUTION WAS GOING TO USE IT FOR THIS CASE.
Bailey gets in a dig at the prosecution's use of the telestrator, injecting humor into an otherwise routine session.
Marcia Clark
IT'S PROBABLY A FAIR ESTIMATE THAT WE WOULD GET TO A JURY VIEW ON THURSDAY.
Signals the prosecution is moving into the core timeline of June 12th, with Mezzaluna witnesses, dog-barking witnesses, and first officers at the scene next up.

Evidence (3)

Informal
ESPN tape (30-minute tape the prosecution wants to play for the jury)
discussed; Cochran ordered to review it overnight
Informal
8x10 photographs of victims Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, to be mounted on large boards with Bundy area map and icons
previewed to counsel; stipulation to identity discussed
Informal
Telestrator / 'point maker' device for courtroom presentation
demonstrated to court and counsel after session

Notable Exchanges (3)

Johnnie CochranChristopher Darden
Cochran complained Darden's witness list compliance was imperfect since he ran out of witnesses; Darden countered that counsel knew he was going to run out, then followed with his 'step dad' quip.
light
Marcia ClarkJohnnie Cochran
Clark offered to stipulate to victim identity in photographs; Cochran accepted but noted the Mezzaluna purpose was different from a straight identity stipulation, and both agreed to think it over overnight.
strategic
Lance A. ItoMarcia Clark
Judge expressed mild irritation at being told the jury view might happen Thursday with insufficient lead time, calling for more advance planning on logistics.
tense

Light Moments (3)

Christopher Darden
Darden complained Cochran 'keeps picking on me' and called the dynamic a 'step dad thing'
F. Lee Bailey
Bailey joked that the telestrator was introduced to America by John Madden 'who is generally a second-guess quarterback' and implied that's why the prosecution was using it
Lance A. Ito
Judge Ito called Clark's exhibit preview 'in the nature of show and tell'

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 4753 • 79 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 FEB 6, 1995 📄 Session closing
FEB 6, 1995 KRT DvH TD