Sidebar: interpreter and camera setup

📄 Sidebar: interpreter and camera setup — Monday, February 27, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\27\SIDEBAR-INTERPRETER-AND-CAMERA.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 26 of 167

◀ Readiness for conditional examination In chambers: Rosa Lopez statement review ▶

Date: Monday, February 27, 1995 • Utterances: 87

A brief sidebar during the criminal trial concerning logistical matters: waiting for a Salvadoran Spanish interpreter to arrive for witness Rosa Lopez, discussing camera setup arrangements for recording the testimony, and debating the permissible scope of cross-examination. The attorneys also sparred over discovery issues related to a defense investigator's report on Lopez that the prosecution claimed was incomplete.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

# 2 THE COURT:

MR. COCHRAN.

# 3 MR. COCHRAN:

I JUST WANT TO FIND OUT IF THE INTERPRETER IS HERE, IF THE SALVADORIAN INTERPRETER IS HERE.

# 4 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 5 THE COURT:

DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO TALK TO THE WITNESS WITH THE INTERPRETER?

# 6 MR. COCHRAN:

IS SHE HERE?

# 7 THE COURT:

SHE SAID SHE WAS ON HER WAY DOWN.

# 8 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

# 9 MR. COCHRAN:

CAN WE MAKE ANOTHER CALL?

# 10 THE COURT:

MRS. ROBERTSON IS WAY AHEAD OF YOU.

# 11 MR. COCHRAN:

THE OTHER POINT IS WHILE WE ARE UP HERE, AND I HAD ASKED BEFORE ABOUT THIS QUESTION OF SCOPE OF CROSS, AND THAT IS WHY I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THAT, AND THE THIRD THING, I SEE THERE ARE TWO CAMERAS. THE D.A.'S HAVE A CAMERA AND THE COURT CAMERA?

# 12 THE COURT:

ACTUALLY WE HAVE -- SCOTT SHULMAN IS DOING IT FOR THE COURT.

# 13 MR. COCHRAN:

THE D.A.'S OFFICE --

# 14 THE COURT:

FOR THE COURT. THE D.A.'S OFFICE INDICATED THEY WANTED THEIR OWN PERSON TO TAKE ONE SO THAT THEY IMMEDIATELY HAVE A COPY. I WILL MAKE YOU A COPY.

# 15 MR. COCHRAN:

OF YOURS AND THEIRS, TOO?

# 16 THE COURT:

WE WILL ALSO HAVE THE COURT T.V. COPY, SO THERE WILL BE THREE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THIS.

# 17 MS. CLARK:

GREAT.

# 18 MR. DARDEN:

WHAT ABOUT THE SECURITY CAMERA UP THERE?

# 19 THE COURT:

THE SECURITY CAMERA UP THERE DOESN'T ACCURATELY RECORD THE QUESTIONS OF THE WITNESSES. I MEAN OF THE QUESTIONER.

# 20 MS. CLARK:

AND THE ANGLE, IS IT -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF ANGLE IT GIVES ON THE WITNESS, THE SECURITY CAMERA. IS IT GOOD?

# 21 THE COURT:

WELL, THAT IS IT RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

# 22 THE COURT:

THE REASON I ASKED SHULMAN TO SET UP IN THE JURY BOX WAS BECAUSE THAT IS THE VIEW THE JURY WOULD SEE.

KEY QUOTE

# 23 MS. CLARK:

UH-HUH, UH-HUH.

# 24 MR. SHAPIRO:

MAKES SENSE.

# 25 THE COURT:

SO I MEAN, IF WE HAD AN EMPTY COURTROOM, IF ALL THINGS WERE PERFECT, WE COULD DO EVERYTHING.

# 26 MR. COCHRAN:

SO, JUDGE, WHILE WE ARE WAITING ON THE INTERPRETER, WHAT ABOUT THE SCOPE OF CROSS ON THIS SITUATION?

# 27 THE COURT:

HOLD ON.

# 28 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 29 THE COURT:

BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM FROM MY SENSE IS THAT THE WITNESS WAS LISTENING TO THE ENGLISH QUESTION AND SIMULTANEOUSLY LISTENING TO THE SPANISH INTERPRETATION.

# 30 MS. CLARK:

THE PROBLEM, THOUGH, THAT WE WERE AWARE OF, IS THE TRANSLATOR WAS INTERPRETING INSTEAD OF TRANSLATING WHAT SHE WAS SAYING AND CHANGING WORDS AND CLEANING UP HER LANGUAGE, NOT EVEN INTERPRETING SOME OF THE THINGS SHE WAS SAYING AT ALL.

# 31 MR. DARDEN:

ESPECIALLY SOME OF THE THINGS SHE WAS SAYING ABOUT MARCIA.

# 32 MS. CLARK:

RIGHT, RIGHT. REALLY. I KNOW.

# 33 MR. COCHRAN:

YOU MEAN ABOUT EVIL EYE? YOU MEAN THE EVIL EYE? SHE SAID YOU WERE GIVING HER THE EVIL EYE.

# 34 MS. CLARK:

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

# 35 MR. COCHRAN:

I DON'T KNOW, MARCIA. YOU ARE GIVING IT TO ME RIGHT NOW, I WANT THE RECORD TO REFLECT.

I DON'T KNOW IF SHE FEELS COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO DO IT IN ENGLISH.

# 36 THE COURT:

NO. I WILL ASK HER THAT. I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE FRAUGHT WITH PROBLEMS.

# 37 MR. DARDEN:

I DON'T KNOW. I HEAR SHE SPEAKS VERY GOOD ENGLISH.

# 38 THE COURT:

WELL, WE CAN ASK.

# 39 MR. COCHRAN:

SHE SPEAKS ENGLISH, BUT IT ISN'T HER NATIVE TONGUE.

# 40 MR. DARDEN:

DON'T LET CARL ASK HER ANY QUESTIONS. HE DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH WELL HIMSELF.

KEY QUOTE

# 41 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN, PLEASE.

# 42 MR. DARDEN:

I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR.

# 43 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 44 MR. COCHRAN:

WE ARE GOING TO BE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES. CAN WE GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND ASK HER ABOUT THIS AND THE SCOPE OF CROSS? AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT ... REQUEST, IF YOU FORMULATED ANY PLAN.

# 45 THE COURT:

I WAS HOPING TO TAKE CARE OF BOTH ... AND ... TODAY, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE GOT SIDETRACKED, BUT I WANT TO BRING THEM IN INDIVIDUALLY AND TALK TO BOTH OF THEM.

# 46 MR. DARDEN:

HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT IS -- YOUR DIRECT IS GOING TO BE?

# 47 THE COURT:

AND THE JUROR NUMBERS SHOULD BE DELETED IN THE TRANSCRIPT.

# 48 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

# 49 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD. ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO TAKE UP?

# 50 MR. SHAPIRO:

SHE FEELS MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE IN SPANISH.

# 51 THE COURT:

I ASSUMED SO.

# 52 MR. COCHRAN:

I THINK WE SHOULD CHECK ON THAT. CAN WE GET SOME IDEA OF WHERE WE ARE ON THE SCOPE OF CROSS, YOUR HONOR?

# 53 THE COURT:

WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY ASK. IT IS KIND OF HARD TO SAY AT THIS POINT. YOU KNOW, 220, I ASSUME THAT THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO COME AFTER HER ABOUT THE EQUIVOCATION OF WHEN SHE WAS GOING TO LEAVE OR NOT, AND 220 DOES TALK ABOUT YOUR ATTITUDE ABOUT GIVING TESTIMONY AND PARTICIPATING AS A WITNESS, SO I MEAN THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS COVERED IN 220, BUT I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO IT AD INFINITUM. THAT IS WORTH FIVE MINUTE'S WORTH OF QUESTIONS.

# 54 MR. COCHRAN:

I DOUBT IF IT IS WORTH MUCH, BUT I JUST WANT TO GET A SENSE OF HOW FAR -- SINCE YOU RULED THAT SHE IS ALLOWED TO TESTIFY, HOW RELEVANT DOES ALL THAT BECOME?

I WILL MAKE THE APPROPRIATE OBJECTION, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE COURT TO HAVE THAT IN MIND WITH REGARD TO WHERE THE DIRECT GOES AND WHAT THE CROSS IS ABOUT.

# 55 THE COURT:

DON'T FORGET, TOO, THAT THIS IS SORT OF A DRY RUN, BUT IT IS STILL SUBJECT TO OBJECTION AND WHATEVER. I MADE THE POINT ON THE RECORD THAT I'M SITTING AS A MAGISTRATE AT THIS POINT DURING THE 1335 AND YOU CAN STILL LODGE OBJECTIONS AT THE PRESENTATION AT TRIAL. SO I ALSO RAISE THE ISSUE ON 770 AS TO HOW MUCH YOUR INVESTIGATION HAS UNCOVERED, BECAUSE EITHER THE PERSON HAS TO STILL BE AVAILABLE AS A WITNESS OR HAVE BEEN CONFRONTED WITH IT.

# 56 MS. CLARK:

RIGHT.

# 57 THE COURT:

SO IT IS A FOUNDATION. THAT IS WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION.

# 58 MS. CLARK:

I UNDERSTAND.

# 59 MR. COCHRAN:

WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY DISCOVERY FROM THEM ABOUT ANY -- ANYTHING OF THIS NATURE, SO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT PUTS US IN A -- YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN US ANY REPORTS OF ALL THIS INVESTIGATION YOU GUYS HAVE DONE ON ROSA. I HAVEN'T SEEN IT.

# 60 MR. DARDEN:

THAT IS TRUE.

# 61 MR. COCHRAN:

SO MINDFUL OF THAT.

# 62 THE COURT:

I AM MINDFUL OF THAT, BUT THEN INFORMATION THAT YOU GET TO IMPEACH -- DIRECTLY IMPEACH THE OTHER SIDE'S WITNESS IS NOT NECESSARILY DISCOVERABLE UNTIL THAT TIME COMES AROUND, ALTHOUGH THAT SHOULD BE SHORTLY.

# 63 MS. CLARK:

YEAH.

# 64 MR. DARDEN:

VERY SHORTLY.

# 65 MS. CLARK:

VERY SHORTLY.

# 66 MR. COCHRAN:

WE ARE NOT THE ONES RUNNING FROM IT. TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT.

KEY QUOTE

# 67 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 68 MR. DOUGLAS:

THE RECORD IS CLEAR THAT WE HAD TURNED OVER AN AUGUST REPORT OF MISS LOPEZ, AND MAY I HAVE A COPY OF THAT?

# 69 MS. CLARK:

THE REPORT YOU GUYS TURNED OVER?

# 70 MR. COCHRAN:

YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT, RIGHT?

# 71 MS. CLARK:

YES, UH-HUH. IT DOESN'T REFLECT WHAT YOU REPRESENTED IN YOUR OPENING STATEMENT, BUT WE HAVE ONE.

KEY QUOTE

# 72 MR. DARDEN:

IN FACT, THE --

# 73 MR. COCHRAN:

PROBABLY REFLECTS MORE THAN WHAT I REPRESENTED.

# 74 MR. DARDEN:

THE "MORE" IS INCOMPLETE.

# 75 MR. COCHRAN:

THERE IS MORE TO IT.

# 76 MS. CLARK:

IT IS INCOMPLETE.

# 77 MR. DARDEN:

YOU KNOW, IT CUTS OFF IN THE MIDDLE OF SENTENCES AND DOT, DOT, DOT, AND PICKS UP LATER. YOU KNOW, WHERE IS REST OF IT?

# 78 MR. COCHRAN:

I PRESUME YOU GOT WHAT WE GOT. I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DISCOVERY. I ASSUME YOU GOT WHAT WE GOT. INCOMPLETE DOT, DOT, DOT? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

# 79 MS. CLARK:

SENTENCES TRAIL OFF, THEY DON'T END AND IT DOT, DOT, DOT, DOT, AND THEN PICKS UP AGAIN. IT IS A STYLE I ASSUME OF THE INVESTIGATOR WHO WROTE IT.

# 80 MR. DARDEN:

HE IS EDITING.

# 81 MR. COCHRAN:

WHO DO YOU WANT TO BLAME FOR THAT?

# 82 MR. DARDEN:

WE JUST WANT DISCOVERY.

# 83 MS. CLARK:

CALL HIM, I GUESS.

# 84 MR. COCHRAN:

AND SAID WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY DOT, DOT, DOT?

# 85 MS. CLARK:

YEAH. WHERE IS THE REST OF THE SENTENCE?

# 86 MR. COCHRAN:

GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. SHOW ME A COPY OF THAT.

# 87 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. LET'S CONCLUDE THIS. ALL RIGHT.

Temperature

light

Key Quotes (5)

Johnnie Cochran

YOU ARE GIVING IT TO ME RIGHT NOW, I WANT THE RECORD TO REFLECT.

Cochran playfully puts Marcia Clark's alleged 'evil eye' on the record after witness Rosa Lopez reportedly complained Clark was intimidating her — a light moment that reveals trial tensions around Lopez's cooperation.

Christopher Darden

DON'T LET CARL ASK HER ANY QUESTIONS. HE DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH WELL HIMSELF.

An off-color jab at co-counsel Carl Douglas that earned a rebuke from Judge Ito, illustrating the informal and occasionally caustic atmosphere at sidebar.

Johnnie Cochran

WE ARE NOT THE ONES RUNNING FROM IT. TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT.

Cochran's defiant response to the prosecution's hints that they had damaging impeachment material on Rosa Lopez coming 'very shortly.'

Marcia Clark

IT DOESN'T REFLECT WHAT YOU REPRESENTED IN YOUR OPENING STATEMENT, BUT WE HAVE ONE.

Clark signals that the defense's own investigative report on Lopez contradicts the promises Cochran made to the jury in opening statements — a credibility attack on the defense's alibi witness strategy.

Lance A. Ito

THE REASON I ASKED SHULMAN TO SET UP IN THE JURY BOX WAS BECAUSE THAT IS THE VIEW THE JURY WOULD SEE.

Ito explains the camera positioning rationale — capturing the jury's perspective of Rosa Lopez's testimony, which will be played at trial.

Evidence (1)

Informal

Defense investigator's August report on Rosa Lopez, turned over in discovery

disputed — prosecution claims it is incomplete with sentences trailing off ('dot, dot, dot'), defense claims they turned over what they had

Notable Exchanges (4)

Johnnie Cochran•Marcia Clark

Cochran teased Clark about Rosa Lopez's complaint that Clark was giving her 'the evil eye,' prompting Clark to ask 'how do you do that?' — both sides laughing before returning to procedural matters.

light

Christopher Darden•Johnnie Cochran•Marcia Clark

Back-and-forth over the completeness of the Lopez investigative report, with prosecution saying sentences literally trail off mid-word and defense saying they turned over everything they received.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito

Darden made a crack about co-counsel Carl Douglas's English, drawing a sharp 'Mr. Darden, please' from Ito and an immediate apology.

heated

Johnnie Cochran•Lance A. Ito

Cochran pressed repeatedly for a ruling on the scope of cross-examination of Rosa Lopez; Ito acknowledged Evidence Code sections 220 and 770 would govern but declined to rule in advance, noting this was a '1335 hearing' functioning as a dry run.

strategic

Light Moments (3)

Johnnie Cochran

Rosa Lopez reportedly told the interpreter that Marcia Clark was giving her 'the evil eye'; Cochran put it on the record and said Clark was doing the same to him right then.

Christopher Darden

Darden quipped that Carl Douglas shouldn't question the Spanish-speaking witness because Douglas 'doesn't speak English well himself,' drawing a rebuke from the judge.

Marcia Clark

When Cochran asked for 'dot, dot, dot' explained, Clark deadpanned 'Call him, I guess' — referring to the defense investigator who wrote the report.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Rosa Lopez

prior inconsistent statement / impeachment

Prosecution hinted they had investigation material on Lopez coming 'very shortly' that would impeach her; Clark also noted the defense's own August report on Lopez 'doesn't reflect what you represented in your opening statement.'

⚔ Defense investigation report

incomplete discovery

Prosecution claimed the Lopez report turned over by the defense had sentences that trailed off mid-word with ellipses, suggesting material had been edited or withheld. Cochran denied any intentional omission.

Witness Demeanor

(BRIEF PAUSE.) — interpreter not yet present

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.) — multiple off-record discussions

Robert Shapiro: SHE FEELS MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE IN SPANISH — relayed after off-record check with Lopez

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 4969 • 87 utterances

Criminal Trial

Department 103