📄 DNA testing — Thursday, February 2, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\2\DNA-TESTING.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 11 of 167

DNA testing

Date: Thursday, February 2, 1995 • Utterances: 51
A brief jury-absent session covering three administrative matters: rescheduling the Marguerite Simpson subpoena hearing to February 8th, negotiating the logistics of defense DNA retesting at Dr. Wolf's Albany laboratory (with the prosecution raising unresolved objections to unsupervised testing), and previewing the next day's witnesses including Denise Brown, who will testify about OJ Simpson's relationship with Nicole.
1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
2 THE COURT:

BACK ON THE RECORD. MR. COCHRAN, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS PROCEEDING, TO CONTINUE THE HEARING AS TO MARGUERITE SIMPSON OVER, DO YOU WANT TO WAIVE YOUR CLIENT'S PRESENCE TO PICK ANOTHER DATE?

3 MR. COCHRAN:

YEAH, I WILL DO THAT, YOUR HONOR. WE CAN -- I WILL MAKE SURE HE'S AWARE OF THAT. WE CAN PICK A DATE, WHATEVER DATE.

4 THE COURT:

MR. JONES, YOU HAVE THE COURT'S SINCERE APOLOGIES. OUR SCHEDULE KEEPS CHANGING. A COUPLE OF THINGS HAPPENED THAT CAUSED US TO RESCHEDULE. THIS HAPPENS FROM TIME TO TIME. I APPRECIATE YOUR DILIGENCE TO THE COURT.

5 MR. JONES:

YOUR HONOR, WE HAD BEEN USING 4:00 P.M. BECAUSE OF MY TRIAL. BUT WE DO HAVE A WINDOW HERE WEDNESDAY THE 8TH. SO I CAN APPEAR ANY TIME DURING THAT DATE.

6 THE COURT:

HOW ABOUT FIRST THING IN THE MORNING WEDNESDAY?

7 MS. JONES:

VERY WELL.

8 THE COURT:

WEDNESDAY 9:00 A.M. FOR SURE. MISS CLARK, YOU WILL HAVE YOUR FOLKS HERE READY TO GO?

9 MS. CLARK:

FOLKS?

10 THE COURT:

WELL, I MEAN, IT'S A HEARING TO QUASH THE SUBPOENA. WHOEVER IT IS THAT YOU HAVE ON THAT MOTION. MR. DOUGLAS.

11 MR. DOUGLAS:

UNRELATED.

12 THE COURT:

OKAY. THEN THE BODY ATTACHMENT ISSUED FOR MARGUERITE SIMPSON WILL CONTINUE TO BE HELD UNTIL THE 8TH OF MARCH AT -- EXCUSE ME -- 8TH OF FEBRUARY, 9:00 A.M. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

13 MS. JONES:

YOUR HONOR, FOR PLANNING, I THINK WE AGREED THE HEARING WOULD TAKE APPROXIMATELY 20, 25 MINUTES.

14 THE COURT:

I FIGURED HALF AN HOUR.

15 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, I HAVE BEEN REMISS AND I HAVE BEEN REMINDED BY BOTH MR. BLASIER AND MR. SCHECK IN MY OFFICE OF OUR NEED IF POSSIBLE TO RESOLVE THIS.

16 THE COURT:

THE LETTER IS ON MY DESK. LET ME GET IT.

17 (BRIEF PAUSE.)
18 THE COURT:

MR. DOUGLAS, YOU'RE MAKING REFERENCE TO THE LETTER FROM YOUR OFFICE DATED JANUARY 30, 1995 SIGNED BY MR. BLASIER?

19 MR. DOUGLAS:

THAT'S CORRECT, YOUR HONOR.

20 THE COURT:

PAGE 2 LISTS THE ITEMS IN NUMERICAL ORDER YOU WISH TO SECURE FOR EXAMINATION, INSPECTION AND TESTING, CORRECT?

21 MR. DOUGLAS:

THIS IS CORRECT, YOUR HONOR. I THINK WE HAVE AGREED THAT IT CAN BE SENT TO ALBANY AND TO DR. WOLF'S LAB. I THINK THAT WE HAVE AGREED THAT -- AND I'M NOT SURE ON THIS PART -- THAT THE PROTOCOL THAT WAS EMPLOYED AT CELLMARK WOULD BE THE STANDARD PROTOCOL THAT WOULD BE USED WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT ONCE A SPLIT IS TAKEN, THAT THERE WOULD BE PRIVILEGED TESTING SO THAT WE MAY CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN BOTH ATTORNEY-CLIENT AND WORK PRODUCT RESULTS. THERE IS AN ISSUE THAT I BELIEVE THERE IS AN INTEREST THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE IN VIDEOTAPING SOME PORTION OF THIS PROCEDURE. I SIMPLY SAY FOR THE RECORD THAT WE HAD SOUGHT SUCH A CONDITION WHEN WE WENT TO CELLMARK, AND THAT WAS REFUSED. SO I THINK IN FAIRNESS, I WILL OBJECT TO THAT PORTION BECAUSE IT WAS NOT THE BENEFIT THAT WE WERE LIKEWISE GIVEN. GIVEN THE EXPECTATION, YOUR HONOR, THAT WE WILL BE GETTING INTO THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE PORTION OF THE CASE SOMETIME NEXT WEEK, I WOULD LIKE THAT THE COURT CAN ARRANGE FOR THIS TRANSFER SOON. I WOULD ASK THAT WE HAVE -- AND I'M NOT SURE OF THE NUMBER OF ITEMS TO KNOW -- BUT A MINIMUM OF THREE DAYS, I THINK WORK DAYS FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO TEST. IF IT'S NECESSARY THAT IT BE DONE IN SHIFTS, THAT WOULD BE AGREEABLE. I DON'T WANT TO UNDULY BURDEN THE PEOPLE, BUT I DO WANT TO HAVE MY EXPERTS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK THEM OVER AND PHYSICALLY TEST THINGS.

22 THE COURT:

MISS CLARK.

23 MS. CLARK:

WE NEED TO HAVE THE RELEVANT LAWYERS PRESENT FOR THIS, YOUR HONOR. I CAN'T MAKE AN AGREEMENT CONCERNING THE PROCEDURES. MY UNDERSTANDING DOES NOT MATCH UP TO COUNSEL'S UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE PROCEDURES ARE.

24 THE COURT:

WELL, WE'RE AGREED THAT THESE MATTERS -- THESE ITEMS WILL BE SENT TO DR. WOLF'S LABORATORY IN ALBANY, CORRECT?

25 MS. CLARK:

YES.

26 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. AND WE ARE AGREED THAT YOU MAY HAVE A PERSON, AN EXPERT OF YOUR CHOICE PRESENT AT ANY TIME ANY EXAMINATION, SPLIT OF THE SAMPLE IS MADE; IS THAT CORRECT?

27 MS. CLARK:

YES.

28 THE COURT:

AND WE ARE AGREED THAT THEY CAN CONDUCT THEIR OWN TESTING AS THEY SEE FIT IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR LABORATORY, CORRECT?

29 MS. CLARK:

NO.

30 THE COURT:

NO?

31 MS. CLARK:

WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE COURT ON THAT. MR. HARMON AND MR. CLARK HAVE TO ADDRESS VERY SERIOUS CONCERNS WITH THAT PROCEDURE, AND WE NEED TO -- WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THEM IN ON ONE MORNING, BUT WE HAD TO PROCEED WITH TRIAL. THEY WERE HERE YESTERDAY WAITING TO PRESENT TO THE COURT, AND WE DIDN'T FOR SOME REASON ADDRESS THE MATTER. AND WE NEED TO DO THAT. SO --

32 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THEN WE'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE MR. BLASIER HERE AND MR. CLARK AND MR. HARMON. WHEN WILL THEY BE AVAILABLE?

33 MS. CLARK:

I BELIEVE THEY CAN BE AVAILABLE TOMORROW MORNING.

34 THE COURT:

I ALREADY TOLD THE JURY 9:00 O'CLOCK. HOW ABOUT 1:30, BRING THE JURY BACK FROM LUNCH AT 2:00. WHY DON'T WE DO THAT. THAT WILL TAKE ABOUT HALF AN HOUR TO RESOLVE.

35 MS. CLARK:

FINE. YES, THANK YOU.

36 THE COURT:

THEN, MR. DOUGLAS, JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, THE ITEMS THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR SPECIFICALLY ARE THESE ITEMS LISTED HERE ON PAGE 2?

37 MR. DOUGLAS:

YES, YOUR HONOR. I DO NOT WANT TO MISLEAD THE COURT AND SAY THAT THAT IS THE EXCLUSIVE OR THE ENTIRE LIST.

38 THE COURT:

WELL, THIS IS THE FIRST BATCH THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO GET STARTED?

39 MR. DOUGLAS:

ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU.

40 MR. DARDEN:

SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR, TOMORROW, WE ARE PLANNING TO CALL OFFICER LERNER AND SERGEANT LALLY, AND THEIR TESTIMONY WILL RELATE TO THE TAPE THE COURT HEARD JUST PRIOR TO THIS AFTERNOON'S ADJOURNMENT. WE WILL ALSO BE CALLING DENISE BROWN TO THE STAND. AND I DON'T KNOW IF COUNSEL CAN GIVE AN INDICATION AS TO HOW LONG THEY THINK MISS BROWN'S TESTIMONY MAY TAKE, BECAUSE I KNOW WE ADJOURN ON FRIDAY AT 3:00 O'CLOCK AND --

41 MR. COCHRAN:

WE DO?

42 MR. DARDEN:

AND SHE MAY BE THE LAST WITNESS OF THE DAY. MAYBE I CAN DIRECT THE QUESTION TO MR. SHAPIRO. DO YOU THINK OFFICER LERNER, SERGEANT LALLY AND DENISE BROWN WILL CONSUME PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE DAY TOMORROW?

43 MR. SHAPIRO:

IT'S PRETTY DIFFICULT TO SAY. IT'S GOING TO BE BASED ON DIRECT EXAMINATION.

44 THE COURT:

ARE YOU BRINGING IN DENISE BROWN TO TESTIFY TO THE '93 INCIDENT OR A RANGE OF OTHER INCIDENTS?

45 MR. DARDEN:

A RANGE OF OTHER INCIDENTS. SHE WILL BE TESTIFYING TO THE NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DEFENDANT, THE DEFENDANT HAD WITH HER SISTER AS WELL. SO --

46 THE COURT:

I THINK IT WILL BE QUITE A WHILE.

47 MR. SHAPIRO:

YOUR HONOR --

48 THE COURT:

ALTHOUGH I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT SERGEANT LALLY AND THE OTHER PATROL OFFICER WOULD BE THAT LONG, I HOPE.

49 MR. SHAPIRO:

IT'S VERY, VERY HARD TO PREDICT. CROSS-EXAMINATION WILL IN LARGE PART DEPEND ON THE DIRECT EXAMINATION.

50 THE COURT:

BUT I HAVE A FEELING GIVEN THE NUMBER OF INCIDENTS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, IT COULD BE EXTENSIVE. OKAY. 9:00 O'CLOCK. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

51 (AT 4:20 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Carl Douglas
I THINK WE HAVE AGREED THAT -- AND I'M NOT SURE ON THIS PART -- THAT THE PROTOCOL THAT WAS EMPLOYED AT CELLMARK WOULD BE THE STANDARD PROTOCOL THAT WOULD BE USED WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT ONCE A SPLIT IS TAKEN, THAT THERE WOULD BE PRIVILEGED TESTING SO THAT WE MAY CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN BOTH ATTORNEY-CLIENT AND WORK PRODUCT RESULTS.
Reveals the defense's core demand: independent DNA testing with results shielded from the prosecution under work-product privilege.
Carl Douglas
WE HAD SOUGHT SUCH A CONDITION WHEN WE WENT TO CELLMARK, AND THAT WAS REFUSED. SO I THINK IN FAIRNESS, I WILL OBJECT TO THAT PORTION BECAUSE IT WAS NOT THE BENEFIT THAT WE WERE LIKEWISE GIVEN.
Defense invokes reciprocity argument against the prosecution's demand to videotape testing, noting Cellmark refused the same condition when defense requested it.
Marcia Clark
MR. HARMON AND MR. CLARK HAVE TO ADDRESS VERY SERIOUS CONCERNS WITH THAT PROCEDURE.
Signals the prosecution has substantive scientific or chain-of-custody objections to unsupervised defense DNA testing, teeing up a future contested hearing.
Christopher Darden
WE WILL ALSO BE CALLING DENISE BROWN TO THE STAND.
Announces a high-profile emotional witness — Nicole's sister — who will testify about the nature of OJ's relationship with Nicole, setting expectations for powerful domestic violence testimony.

Evidence (3)

Informal
Letter from defense office dated January 30, 1995, signed by Mr. Blasier, listing items for examination, inspection, and DNA testing
discussed as basis for defense retesting request
Informal
DNA evidence items to be sent to Dr. Wolf's laboratory in Albany for defense retesting
transfer and testing protocol negotiated
Informal
Audio tape heard prior to afternoon adjournment (related to upcoming Officer Lerner and Sergeant Lally testimony)
referenced as context for next day's witnesses

Notable Exchanges (3)

Lance A. ItoMarcia Clark
Ito walks through agreed DNA testing conditions one by one — Albany lab, prosecution observer present, defense testing in privacy — and Clark agrees to the first two but flatly refuses the third, revealing an unresolved dispute about unsupervised testing that must be briefed the following day.
strategic
Christopher DardenJohnnie Cochran
Darden previews tomorrow's witnesses and mentions the court adjourns at 3:00 on Fridays; Cochran's interjection — 'WE DO?' — suggests he was unaware of the Friday schedule.
light
Lance A. ItoMr. Jones
Ito offers sincere apologies to Jones for the repeatedly shifting schedule around the Marguerite Simpson subpoena hearing, acknowledging the inconvenience.
cordial

Light Moments (2)

Marcia Clark
Clark responds to Ito's reference to 'your folks' with a single puzzled word — 'Folks?' — prompting Ito to clarify he meant whoever was handling the motion to quash.
Johnnie Cochran
Cochran appears genuinely surprised to learn the court adjourns at 3:00 PM on Fridays, responding 'WE DO?' mid-Darden statement.

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)
Proceeding 4619 • 51 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 FEB 2, 1995 📄 DNA testing
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