MISS CLARK, REDIRECT.

THANK YOU.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, YESTERDAY, MR. COCHRAN WAS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SPECIAL ORDER 21. DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF IT, SIR?

YES.

I'M GOING TO PUT IT ON THE ELMO SO THE JURY CAN SEE IT TOO.

FIRST, COULD YOU -- JONATHAN, CAN YOU SHOW THE TOP?

BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THAT'S THE ORDER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT; IS THAT RIGHT?

YES.

AND THE SUBJECT MATTER IS NOTIFICATIONS TO THE CORONER.

YES.

ALL RIGHT. NOW, DROPPING DOWN TO THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH -- HOLD STILL. OKAY -- WHERE IT SAYS: "THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER AT THE SCENE OF A DEATH WHICH REQUIRES NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER SHALL MAKE NOTIFICATION IMMEDIATELY UPON DETERMINING THAT THE DEATH FALLS WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CORONER'S OFFICE." FIRST OF ALL, SIR, TELL US, DOES THIS MEAN ONLY HOMICIDES?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. HE CAN TELL US WHAT IT MEANS. IT WAS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE THE WAY IT WAS PHRASED.

WITHDRAWN. COUNSEL IS RIGHT.

REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IT MEANS, WHAT IT REFERS TO?

THIS REFERS TO ANY SCENE OF ANY DEATH THAT COMES WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CORONER'S OFFICE.

OKAY. DOES -- AND WHAT DOES THAT INCLUDE, SIR?

INCLUDES DEATHS WHERE DOCTORS DO NOT SIGN CERTIFICATES WITHIN 20 DAYS AND INCLUDES SUICIDES, INCLUDES HOMICIDES, INCLUDES ACCIDENTALS. WHENEVER AN OFFICER GOES OUT AND COMES ACROSS A DEATH.

WHETHER IT'S BY CRIMINAL AGENCY OR NOT?

UNTIL WE DETERMINE WHETHER IT IS OR NOT, YES.

OKAY. SO IN ALL THOSE CASES, THERE'S A REQUIREMENT TO NOTIFY THE CORONER?

YES.

NOW, DROPPING DOWN TO THE SECOND PART OF THAT PARAGRAPH -- ACTUALLY, LET ME BACK UP. IT SAYS: "SHALL MAKE THE NOTIFICATION IMMEDIATELY UPON DETERMINING THAT THE DEATH FALLS WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CORONER'S OFFICE," BUT THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY: "IF THE CORONER IS NOT IMMEDIATELY NEEDED AT THE SCENE"?

YES.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

WELL, WHAT THIS PARAGRAPH IS TELLING YOU IS THAT THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER, WHO MAY NOT ALWAYS BE A DETECTIVE -- THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER AT A SUICIDE MAY NOT BE A DETECTIVE. IT MAY BE A PATROL OFFICER WHO CAME ACROSS AN OBVIOUS SUICIDE. IT MAY BE A NATURAL DEATH THAT THE DOCTOR DOESN'T WANT TO SIGN A DEATH CERTIFICATE. AND WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE DETECTIVES ROLL ON THOSE CALLS. SO THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER AT ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WOULD BE THE PATROL OFFICER WHO IS INVESTIGATING THAT CALL OR INVESTIGATING THAT DEATH SCENE. AND WHAT THEY'RE TELLING YOU IS THAT UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, TO NOTIFY THE CORONER'S OFFICE TO HAVE THE CORONER'S OFFICE COME OUT AND REMOVE THE BODY. AND IF THE CORONER IS NOT IMMEDIATELY NEEDED, THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER SHALL ADVISE THE CORONER OF AN APPROXIMATE TIME WHEN THE CORONER MAY BE NEEDED.

OKAY. AND WHEN WOULD IT BE A SITUATION WHERE THE CORONER WOULD NOT IMMEDIATELY BE NEEDED?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. IT'S IRRELEVANT AND IMMATERIAL. THIS IS NOT A SUICIDE. THESE OTHER THINGS ARE IRRELEVANT.

OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

WHAT WAS THE QUESTION AGAIN?

BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF A SITUATION WHERE THE CORONER WOULD NOT IMMEDIATELY BE NEEDED?

WELL, IT MAY BE A SUICIDE THAT THE OFFICERS MAY HAVE TO DO A SMALL AMOUNT OF INVESTIGATION TO SEE THAT IT WASN'T -- WAS A SUICIDE OR WASN'T A SUICIDE. THERE MAY BE SOME INVESTIGATING, TALKING TO FAMILY MEMBERS OR TRYING TO GET AHOLD OF A DOCTOR TO SEE IF A DOCTOR WANTED TO SIGN THE CERTIFICATE IF WE CAN FIND THAT CORRECT DOCTOR. SO NOT IMMEDIATELY MEANS IT MAY TAKE THOSE PATROL OFFICERS WHO ARE THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS AN HOUR TO GET THAT INFORMATION ALL PUT TOGETHER.

WHAT ABOUT THE SITUATION WHERE IT'S A HOMICIDE?

HOMICIDE IS A DIFFERENT SITUATION ALTOGETHER.

AND WHY IS THAT?

BECAUSE A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION REQUIRES THE SERVICES OF A SPECIALIZED DETECTIVE, THE HOMICIDE DETECTIVE TO COME OUT TO THAT CRIME SCENE.

OKAY. AND IN THAT SITUATION, IF IT IS A HOMICIDE, IS THAT AN EXAMPLE ALSO WHERE A CORONER IS NOT IMMEDIATELY NEEDED?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

BY MS. CLARK: IS THE -- IS A HOM -- IN THE CASE OF A HOMICIDE, IS THAT A CASE WHERE THE CORONER WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY NEEDED?

NO.

AND WHY IS THAT?

YOU HAVE SEVERAL THINGS YOU HAVE TO DO AT A CRIME SCENE FIRST. YOU HAVE TO, NUMBER ONE, TALK TO ALL THE OFFICERS, FIND OUT WHAT YOU HAVE. YOU HAVE TO EXAMINE THE CRIME SCENE. YOU HAVE TO MEASURE YOUR CRIME SCENE OFF. YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CRIME SCENE SKETCH. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN OF THAT CRIME SCENE. YOU MAY HAD FINGERPRINTS NEEDED TO BE TAKEN OF THAT CRIME SCENE. SEVERAL THINGS NEED TO BE DONE BEFORE YOU BRING THE CORONER'S OFFICE IN AND ATTEMPT TO MOVE THE BODIES.

SO IT SAYS IN THAT EVENT: "WHEN THE CORONER IS NOT IMMEDIATELY NEEDED, THAT THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER SHALL ADVISE THE CORONER OF AN APPROXIMATE TIME WHEN THE CORONER'S DEPUTY CAN RESPOND; AND IF NO TIME CAN BE ESTIMATED, THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER SHALL ARRANGE TO MAKE SECOND NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER WHEN THE RESPONSE IS APPROPRIATE."

THAT'S WHERE WE GET OUR FIRST CALL AND SECOND CALL.

AND IS THAT WHAT YOU DID IN THIS CASE?

YES.

YOU MADE FIRST NOTIFICATION AT WHAT TIME?

6:50.

AND THEN YOU MADE THE SECOND NOTIFICATION TO TELL THEM TO COME STRAIGHT OUT AT WHAT TIME?

8:08.

AND IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH, SIR: "WHEN CIRCUMSTANCES INDICATE THAT THE INVESTIGATION OF THE DEATH REQUIRES THE EXPERTISE OF A SPECIALIZED INVESTIGATOR, FOR EXAMPLE, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER SHALL BE MADE BY THE CONCERNED --"

I'M SORRY. I RELUCTANTLY OBJECT. IS THIS A QUESTION? WE CAN READ THE DOCUMENT ITSELF.

IT IS FOUNDATIONAL.

ALL RIGHT.

BY MS. CLARK: "-- BY THE CONCERNED SPECIALIZED INVESTIGATOR WHO RESPONDS TO THE SCENE OF THE INCIDENT." CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT PASSAGE?

WELL, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH THERE EXPLAINS THAT THIS COULD BE ANY TYPE OF DEATH THAT EVEN A PATROL OFFICER MAY BE INVESTIGATING. IT'S NATURAL OR WHATEVER. THEN THEY'RE TELLING YOU WHEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES INDICATE THAT IT IS A HOMICIDE AND YOU NEED THE EXPERTISE OF A HOMICIDE DETECTIVE. THEY'RE TELLING THAT PATROL OFFICER OR THAT OFFICER THAT'S INVESTIGATING THAT HOMICIDE OR TRAFFIC COLLISION, WHATEVER IT IS, DO NOT NOTIFY THE CORONER'S OFFICE, LET THE ASSIGNED HOMICIDE DETECTIVE WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THE CASE MAKE THE NOTIFICATION BECAUSE HE HAS ALL THIS WORK TO DO WHEN HE GETS THERE.

SO WHY IS IT IMPORTANT WHO MAKES NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER; FIRST OFFICER OR THE HOMICIDE DETECTIVE WHO EVENTUALLY IS ASSIGNED TO THE CASE?

IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE CORONER'S OFFICE IS THEN NOT LEFT STANDING AROUND DOING NOTHING WHEN THEY COULD BE GOING TO OTHER CALLS TO PICK UP OTHER DECEASED. IT KIND OF LETS THEM MAKE THEIR ARRANGEMENTS. AS AN EXAMPLE, IF --

NO, SIR. THE QUESTION I'M ASKING IS, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT WHO MAKES NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER, THE DETECTIVE VERSUS THE PATROL OFFICER WHO FIRST SHOWS UP?

BECAUSE THE DETECTIVE, WHEN HE SHOWS UP, HE CAN EVALUATE THE CRIME SCENE. HE CAN TELL HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO TAKE HIM -- WITH HIS EXPERIENCE AND HIS KNOWLEDGE, HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO TAKE HIM TO DO THIS CRIME SCENE TO GET IT READY FOR THE CORONER'S OFFICE TO COME. A PATROL OFFICER WOULD HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO TAKE THAT DETECTIVE TO FINISH HIS CRIME INVESTIGATION. SO FOR HIM TO MAKE A ESTIMATE OF TIME WOULD BENEFIT NOBODY.

UH-HUH. SO CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHAT IS THE OVERALL PURPOSE OF THIS SPECIAL ORDER NUMBER 21?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS THE CHIEF'S ORDER. I'M NOT SURE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WITH HIS RELATIVE EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST ONE TO GIVE US THIS. THIS IS NOT THE WITNESS I DON'T THINK --

WELL, DOESN'T IT PRETTY MUCH SPEAK FOR ITSELF?

YOUR HONOR, NO. WHAT I WANT TO KNOW FROM THIS WITNESS IS WHAT HE UNDERSTANDS -- HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT'S BEING ADDRESSED IN THIS SPECIAL ORDER AND IT DOESN'T SPEAK FOR ITSELF IN THAT REGARD BECAUSE IT WAS ADDRESSING A SPECIFIC PROBLEM, AND THAT IS THE ISSUE.

IT CROSS-REFERENCES THE MANUAL WHICH IS MODIFIED, WHICH IT SAYS MODIFIED, WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN TOLD TO THE JURY.

AND THAT DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ITSELF. IF I CAN BE PERMITTED TO ELICIT THIS ANSWER, THE COURT WILL SEE.

BRIEFLY.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

BY MS. CLARK: WHAT IS THE OVERALL PURPOSE FOR THE ISSUANCE OF THIS ORDER? WHAT PROBLEM WAS IT SEEKING TO ADDRESS?

WELL, YOUR HONOR, OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT PARTICULAR QUESTION. THAT'S NOT WHAT SHE SAID SHE WAS GOING TO DO. WHAT WAS IN THE CHIEF'S MIND WHEN HE ISSUED THIS ORDER IS NOT RELEVANT IN THIS CASE.

OVERRULED.

YOUR HONOR --

WELL, WHAT IT ATTEMPTS TO DO IS TO ELIMINATE THE DOWNTIME OF THE CORONER'S OFFICE STANDING AROUND AT ONE CRIME SCENE FOR FOUR OR FIVE HOURS WHEN THEY COULD BE DOING SOMETHING ELSE AT ANOTHER AREA THAT IS READY FOR THEM SO WE DON'T HAVE BODIES AND CRIME SCENES BEING BACKED UP ALL OVER THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES. WHY HAVE THE CORONER'S OFFICE SITTING AROUND FOR FOUR OR FIVE HOURS AT ONE CRIME SCENE WHERE HE COULD BE PICKING UP -- I DON'T MEAN TO BE GROSS -- BUT PICKING UP TWO OR THREE NATURAL DECEASED AND WHILE HE'S STANDING AROUND WAITING FOR ONE CRIME SCENE TO BE DONE.

BY MS. CLARK: AND IF THE CORONER IS STANDING AROUND AT ONE CRIME SCENE WAITING, JUST WAITING TO BE ALLOWED INTO IT TO REMOVE THE BODIES, WHAT HAPPENS TO OTHER OFFICERS ON OTHER HOMICIDE SCENES WHO ARE WAITING FOR THE CORONER?

CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR. SHE SAID BRIEFLY.

OVERRULED.

WELL, THEN THOSE CRIME SCENES WOULD BEGIN TO BACK UP. WE WOULD HAVE OFFICERS STANDING AROUND WAITING FOR CORONERS TO SHOW UP AND IT WOULD JUST BECOME A DOMINO EFFECT. THIS WHOLE IDEA IS SO THAT WE HAVE RAPID RESPONSE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE; THEY CAN DO THEIR JOB, GET OUT AND GET TO ANOTHER AREA WHERE THEY'RE NEEDED, WHERE OTHER DETECTIVES OR OTHER OFFICERS ARE WAITING FOR A CORONER TO SHOW UP AT THAT LOCATION.

BY MS. CLARK: NOW, SIR, ON THE CORONER'S TAPE, WHEN YOU WERE SPEAKING TO MR. WILLIS, YOU TOLD HIM THAT IT WAS MR. SIMPSON IN THAT CONVERSATION. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

YES.

WHY? WHY DID YOU TELL HIM?

WELL, BECAUSE I DID, NUMBER ONE. BUT NUMBER TWO IS, IF I WERE TO TELL THEM THAT WE HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE IN THE BRENTWOOD AREA, IT'S GOING TO CAUSE A NEWS MEDIA EVENT REGARDLESS OF WHO IS INVOLVED. IT'S JUST WE DON'T HAVE DOUBLE HOMICIDES IN THE BRENTWOOD AREA VERY OFTEN. AND SO BY TELLING HIM WHAT WE HAD AND ASKING HIM FOR HIS COOPERATION IN KEEPING IT QUIET, WE WOULD ELIMINATE THE PRESS FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. TRYING TO MAKE A POINT TO HIM.

UH-HUH. TO LET HIM KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS?

YES.

THAT'S LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR, THE LAST STATEMENT.

SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

WITHDRAWN.

BY MS. CLARK: SIR, YOU INDICATED I THINK ON CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT THERE'S A MOONLIGHTING JOB THAT YOU AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN BOTH DID?

USED TO DO, YES.

USED TO DO AT ONE TIME. WERE YOU WORKING TOGETHER WHEN YOU DID THAT?

NO.

YOU AND HE WOULD GO TO THE JOB TOGETHER, COME HOME TOGETHER?

NO, SIR. NO, MA'AM. THAT'S TWO.

IT IS TWO. THAT'S OKAY. BUT YOU WOULD -- YOU DIDN'T SEE EACH OTHER THEN ON THE JOB THERE?

NO.

LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

OVERRULED. I THINK YOU COVERED THAT AS WELL ON THE DIRECT.

I THOUGHT SO.

ON DIRECT?

EXCUSE ME. ON CROSS. IT WAS COVERED ON CROSS, THAT THEY WORK THE SAME JOB, THEY DID NOT WORK AT THE SAME TIME. WHAT'S THE JOB?

I WANT TO DO IT TOO. I AM SORRY. I'M GETTING VERY PUNCHY.

IT'S BEEN A LONG WEEK.

IT HAS.

BY MS. CLARK: ARE THERE OTHER OFFICERS OR DO OTHER OFFICERS ALSO WORK THAT SAME JOB, SIR?

YES. I BELIEVE THERE WAS PROBABLY 15 OF US THAT WORKED THAT LOCATION, DIFFERENT SHIFTS. IT WAS 24 HOURS AROUND THE CLOCK.

PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, YOUR HONOR?

71? PEOPLE'S 71.

THANK YOU. IF WE COULD MARK THIS AS PEOPLE'S 71, YOUR HONOR.

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU -- CAN YOU SEE THAT ON THE MONITOR, SIR?

YES.

ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S BEING SHOWN THERE?

IT LOOKS LIKE THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THE JEEP THAT WAS PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY.

OKAY. NOW, WAS THERE ROOM TO WALK BETWEEN THE JEEP AND THE FENCE?

YES.

WAS THERE ROOM TO PARK IN THE ALLEY BEHIND THE JEEP?

YES.

AND WAS THERE ROOM TO PARK BEHIND THE FERRARI IN THE DRIVEWAY?

YES.

NOW --

CAN YOU CUT THE FEED FOR THIS ONE, PLEASE?

I HAVE NOT SEEN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR.

COUNSEL HAS SEEN THEM.

BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN THEM TODAY.

I BELIEVE THIS IS --

MISS CLARK.

THANK YOU.

THIS WILL BE MARKED NEXT IN ORDER, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 72.

ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 72.

BY MS. CLARK: SIR, YOU INDICATED DURING CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT YOU SAW A MENU. DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING TO THAT?

YES. MR. COCHRAN SHOWED ME SOMETHING ABOUT A PIZZA MAN MENU ON A STATEMENT WRITTEN BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

OKAY. NOW, IN THAT STATEMENT THAT HE SHOWED YOU --

HAS THAT BEEN MARKED, YOUR HONOR?

THE STATEMENT? I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

THE REPORT?

I THINK IT'S FOUR PAGES.

D-1023.

BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS D-123, SIR, THE SECOND PAGE AFTER ITEM NO. 5, IT SAYS --

YOUR HONOR, OBJECT TO THIS.

ARE YOU USING THIS TO REFRESH HIS RECOLLECTION ON JUST TO POINT OUT SOMETHING?

I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT SOMETHING.

IT'S HEARSAY OTHERWISE. HAVE HIM READ IT TO HIMSELF.

WHY DON'T YOU HAVE HIM READ IT TO HIMSELF AT THIS POINT.

OKAY.

YES.

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. NOW, BASED ON YOUR READING OF THIS, DOES THIS REFER TO ONE OR TWO ITEMS?

TWO ITEMS.

OKAY. AND ONE IS FOUND WHERE ACCORDING TO THIS NOTE?

ON AN UPSTAIRS COFFEE --

YOUR HONOR, I'M RELUCTANT TO OBJECT. THIS IS BEING USED FOR MEMORY REFRESHING. SHE'S NOT JUST REFERRING TO HIS NOTE. THAT'S HEARSAY.

NO, YOUR HONOR.

CORRECT.

I'M CLEARING UP WHAT WAS DEALT WITH ON CROSS-EXAMINATION.

YOU NEED TO --

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. LET'S WORK IT OUT.

ALL RIGHT.

MISS CLARK.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. THERE'S A REFERENCE TO A NOTE ON AN UPSTAIRS COFFEE TABLE. DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT?

NO.

DID YOU EVER SEE SUCH A NOTE ON A COFFEE TABLE?

NO.

OKAY. THEN DOWN HERE, THERE'S REFERENCE TO A MENU. IT SAYS, "PIZZA MENU BY FEMALE VICTIM'S LEFT LEG." DO YOU SEE THAT?

WELL, I SAW A MENU BY HER LEFT LEG. AND AFTER LOOKING AT THIS, I THOUGHT IT WAS A PIZZA MENU. BUT I REMEMBER NOW THAT IT WAS AN ORIENTAL MENU FROM SOME ORIENTAL TYPE RESTAURANT. IT WASN'T A PIZZA MENU.

AND LOOKING AT THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S NOW BEEN MARKED PEOPLE'S 72 --

YES.

-- DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, SIR?

YES. THAT WAS THE ORIENTAL MENU THAT I WAS REFERRING TO THAT I INADVERTENTLY THOUGHT THAT WAS REFERRING TO.

WHEN YOU SAY "THAT", YOU'RE REFERRING TO D-1023, THE PASSAGE WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT, PARAGRAPH 5?

YES.

ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU SAW THE DOG KATO AT THE -- AT THE BUNDY SCENE I THINK YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER?

YES.

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WAY TO CHECK A DOG'S TEETH TO SEE IF IT HAD BITTEN SOMEONE FOUR HOURS EARLIER?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. ARGUMENTATIVE. IT CALLS FOR SCIENCE THAT'S OUTSIDE WITHOUT FURTHER FOUNDATION. IT'S OUTSIDE THE EXPERTISE OF THE OFFICER.

OVERRULED.

I AM SORRY?

ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY WAY TO TEST A DOG'S TEETH FOR HAVING BITTEN SOMEBODY RECENTLY?

NO, THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION.

I LIKE THAT QUESTION BETTER.

OF COURSE. CAN I TRY AGAIN, YOUR HONOR?

I LIKE MY QUESTION.

SHOULD I ANSWER YOURS?

WELL, I'M NOT THE LAWYER. WE'LL TRY -- I TRY TO LET THE LAWYERS TRY THEIR OWN CASES. I AM SORRY. MISS CLARK, ASK YOUR QUESTION.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. APPRECIATE IT.

MUCH AS I'D LIKE TO.

GO AHEAD.

NO. YOU DO YOUR JOB.

ALL RIGHT.

BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WAY TO CHECK A DOG'S TEETH TO SEE IF IT HAD BITTEN SOMEONE FOUR HOURS EARLIER?

NO.

DID IT OCCUR TO YOU TO GO AND CHECK EMERGENCY ROOM MEDICAL RECORDS TO SEE IF A PERSON WHO HAD JUST KILLED TWO PEOPLE WENT AND CHECKED HIMSELF INTO AN EMERGENCY ROOM FOR A DOG BITE HE HAD GOTTEN DURING A KILLING?

NO, I DID NOT.

NOW, DID YOU TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE SOLES OF THE SHOES OF THE FIRST OFFICERS THAT WERE ON THE SCENE?

YES, I DID.

YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS I HAVE SHOWN TO COUNSEL. IT WOULD BE EIGHT, 12 -- 30, 30 PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR, OF SOLES OF SHOES.

ALL RIGHT. I AM GOING TO HAVE MISS ROBERTSON GET A BLACK BINDER SO WE CAN PUT THOSE IN.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ALL RIGHT. I TAKE IT YOU WANT THESE COLLECTIVELY AS PEOPLE'S 73?

YES, YOUR HONOR, THANK YOU.

MAY I APPROACH?

YOU MAY.

BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU THE ITEMS THAT HAVE NOW BEEN COLLECTIVELY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 73 --

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

BY MS. CLARK: -- DO YOU RECOGNIZE --

THAT WAY, WE CAN PUT THEM IN A SINGLE ORDER AND THEN FLIP THROUGH THEM.

YES, I DO.

BY MS. CLARK: AND HOW DO YOU RECOGNIZE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?

I TOOK THE PHOTOGRAPHS AT WEST LOS ANGELES DETECTIVES.

AT THE WEST LOS -- AT THE DETECTIVES AREA?

YES.

CAN YOU TELL US WHEN THESE POLAROIDS WERE TAKEN?

THEY WERE TAKEN OVER A PERIOD OF SEVERAL DAYS. ALL THE OFFICERS OBVIOUSLY DON'T WORK THE SAME SHIFT, THE SAME DAY ALL AT THE SAME TIME. SO I LEFT WORD IN THE WATCH COMMANDER'S OFFICE THAT THESE PARTICULAR OFFICERS THE NEXT TIME THEY REPORTED TO WORK, TO COME UP AND SEE ME, AND THEN I CAME IN EARLY TO MEET THEM. I THEN TOOK THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THEIR SHOES. SO IT WAS OVER A PERIOD OF DAYS.

BUT WAS IT WITHIN A WEEK OF THE HOMICIDES?

YES.

IS THERE SOME WAY WE CAN SHOW THESE TO THE JURY?

CAN YOU ELMO THEM ONE PAGE AT A TIME? THE ONLY PROBLEM IS, THE PROTECTIVE COVERS ON THOSE THINGS HAVE A BAD REFLECTIVE --

HAS A GLARE.

LET'S TRY IT.

WE NEED TO WORK HALF PAGES AT A TIME.

ALL RIGHT. IS IT POSSIBLE YOU CAN JUST MOVE THE REFLECTIVE COVER JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF ELMOING, I MEAN JUST OPEN UP THE FLAP? YEAH. BETTER. ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, HOW ABOUT IF WE HAVE MR. FAIRTLOUGH JUST RUN THROUGH THEM, SHOW THEM A BRIEF SHOT OF EACH ONE OF THESE.

THAT'S GREAT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

ALL RIGHT. LET'S SEE THE NEXT SET.

THIS IS PAGE 543.

ALL RIGHT.

PAGE 544, FIRST HALF. PAGE 547. PAGE 545, FIRST HALF. PAGE 545, SECOND HALF. PAGE 546, FIRST HALF. PAGE 546, SECOND HALF. PAGE 640, FIRST HALF. PAGE 640, SECOND HALF. PAGE 861, TWO PRINTS. PAGE 862, TWO PRINTS ONLY. PAGE 1010, TWO PRINTS ONLY. PAGE 1011, TWO PRINTS ONLY. PAGE 1174, TWO PRINTS ONLY.

BY MS. CLARK: THOSE ARE THE ONES?

YES.

SIR, HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A FLAVOR OF ICE CREAM CALLED CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIE DOUGH?

YES.

AND DID YOU CHECK THE ICE CREAM THAT YOU FOUND IN THE BEN AND JERRY'S CUP INSIDE OF 875 BUNDY TO SEE IF THERE WERE CLUMPS OF CHOCOLATE COOKIE DOUGH IN IT?

NO.

WHEN YOU WENT INTO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION, SIR, YOU SAID YOU WENT IN THROUGH THE REAR DOOR --

YES.

-- WITH ARNELLE? DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER SHE WENT TO PUNCH IN AN ALARM KEYPAD WHEN YOU FIRST ENTERED?

NO, I DIDN'T.

DOES THAT MEAN SHE DIDN'T DO IT?

I DIDN'T SEE HER DO IT. I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER SHE DID IT OR NOT.

SHE COULD HAVE. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW?

I DON'T KNOW.

YOU INDICATED I THINK, SIR, THAT THERE WERE LIKE -- YOU COUNTED 28 POLICE OFFICERS AT THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY, DIFFERENT NAMES?

THERE WERE 28 NAMES ON A LOG THAT SAID AT SOME TIME OR ANOTHER, THEY ARRIVED.

UH-HUH. DOES THAT MEAN THAT THERE WERE 28 OFFICERS AT THAT SCENE AT THE SAME TIME?

COULD BE. I HAVE NO IDEA. I WASN'T KEEPING TRACK OF EVERY SINGLE OFFICER'S MOVEMENTS AND HOW MANY WERE THERE AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME.

LET ME ASK YOU THIS, SIR. WAS THERE A -- DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY THE TERM "SHIFT CHANGE"?

YES.

WAS THERE A CHANGE OF SHIFT FROM THE TIME THAT YOU FIRST WENT TO THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY AT APPROXIMATELY 2:10 A.M. UNTIL 10:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING?

YES.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

THE MORNING WATCH SHIFT --

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

-- GETS OFF AT ABOUT 7:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING AND THE DAY WATCH SHIFT COMES ON, HAS THEIR ROLL CALL 6:30 IN THE MORNING AND USUALLY HITS THE STREET BETWEEN 7:00 AND 7:15 IN THE MORNING. SO THAT'S WHEN THAT CHANGE WOULD OCCUR, AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME.

UH-HUH. SO SOME OFFICERS LEAVE AT 7:15, GO OFF DUTY AND OTHERS COME ON?

YES.

AND THAT OCCURRED BETWEEN 2:00 AND 10:00 IN THE MORNING ON JUNE THE 13TH?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. IN THIS CASE, THEY MAY NOT HAVE BEEN DONE. THEY MAY HAVE WORKED OVERTIME. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.

WHY DON'T YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

OKAY.

BY MS. CLARK: THEN WAS THERE A SHIFT CHANGE BETWEEN 2:00 IN THE MORNING AND 10:00 IN THE MORNING ON JUNE 13TH?

YES.

COULD I --

BY MS. CLARK: LET ME FIRST ASK YOU SOMETHING, SIR. DID YOU LOOK AT THE CRIME SCREEN LOG BEFORE COMING TO COURT TODAY?

NOT TODAY, NO.

BEFORE COMING TO COURT YESTERDAY?

I BELIEVE I SAW IT YESTERDAY.

OKAY. DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER IT SHOWED OFFICERS COMING AND GOING FROM THAT CRIME SCENE?

WELL, THERE'S A TIME IN AND A TIME OUT ON THE CRIME SCENE LOG, YES.

SO WHEN YOU WERE COUNTING ALL OF THE NAMES ON THE LIST -- LET ME SHOW IT TO YOU AND ASK YOU.

MISS CLARK.

I THINK WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE CHECKED IN AND OUT OF THE CRIME SCENE.

YES.

BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU WERE COUNTING ALL THE NAMES ON THE LIST, SIR, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY WERE ALL THERE TOGETHER --

I OBJECT.

BY MS. CLARK: DOES THAT NECESSARILY MEAN THEY WERE ALTOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME?

NO.

THIS IS A DEFENSE EXHIBIT?

1027, YOUR HONOR.

BY MS. CLARK: REGARDING THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, DO YOU RECALL THAT THERE WAS A PALM TREE AT THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

YES.

NOW, THE FEMALE WHO IS IN THE WHITE SHIRT LOOKING AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER SHE'S STANDING OUT ON THE SIDEWALK OR ON THE GRASS?

WELL, SHE'S EITHER ON THE SIDEWALK OR THE GRASS BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT SHE'S OUTSIDE OF THAT PLANTED AREA THAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER.

UH-HUH. AND THE GENTLEMAN WHO'S -- LET ME USE THE LASER. CAN YOU SEE WHERE I'M POINTING WITH THE LASER, SIR? SEE THE GENTLEMAN WHOSE SHOULDER IS HERE (INDICATING)?

YES.

OKAY. CAN YOU TELL IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHETHER HE'S STANDING ON THAT WALKWAY WITH THE BLOOD ON IT OR WHETHER HE'S STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK AREA?

I CAN'T BE POSITIVE, BUT I WOULD SAY IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S PROBABLY STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK.

OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. MOVE TO STRIKE.

OVERRULED.

BY MS. CLARK: IT LOOKS TO YOU LIKE HE'S STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK YOU SAY?

OBJECT TO THAT AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

SUSTAINED.

BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY SIR?

ASKED AND ANSWERED.

OVERRULED. COUNSEL CAN ASK CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE WITNESS IS TURNED AWAY TALKING THE OTHER DIRECTION, WHICH I DIDN'T HEAR EITHER.

BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU SAY, SIR?

I SAID IT APPEARS AS IF HE'S STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK, BUT FROM THIS ANGLE, I CAN'T BE SURE EXACTLY WHERE HE'S STANDING.

UH-HUH. THIS PHOTOGRAPH, DO YOU THINK IT'S A CLEAR PHOTOGRAPH IN TERMS OF THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE CRIME SCENE.

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT, CRITICIZING THE PHOTOGRAPH.

SUSTAINED. MAYBE WE CAN HAVE SOME EXPERT FROM OUR TELEPHOTO LENSES BACK HERE AS TO DISTORTION BY VARIOUS LENSES.

BY MS. CLARK: WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS. YOU WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE, RIGHT?

YES.

AND YOU KNOW THE DISTANCES BETWEEN THINGS, RIGHT?

ROUGHLY.

DOES THIS COMPORT WITH YOUR MEMORY OF THE DISTANCES THAT YOU SAW WHEN YOU WERE THERE BETWEEN THE GATE, THE SIDEWALK, THE WALKWAY, THE PALM TREE?

YOUR HONOR, THAT'S VAGUE AND THAT'S COMPOUND AND THAT'S AN UNINTELLIGIBLE QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, IT IS A COMPOUND QUESTION AND WE DID HAVE A VIEW OF THE SCENE BY THE JURORS. THEY DID VIEW IT FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME FROM ACROSS THE STREET AND I THINK THEY KNOW THE PERSPECTIVES. I THINK THEY KNOW -- THEY TOOK NOTE OF WHERE THE PALM TREE WAS.

I WOULD LIKE TO ELICIT TESTIMONY, YOUR HONOR, SO I HAVE SOMETHING IN THE RECORD SO I CAN REFER BACK TO LATER.

WELL, YOU CAN REFER BACK TO THE VIEW OF THE SCENE.

BUT WITH RESPECT TO THIS PARTICULAR TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK SOME PARTICULAR QUESTIONS ABOUT --

THE COURT'S ALREADY RULED.

IT'S ALSO NOON.

CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION THEN BEFORE WE BREAK?

ONE MORE.

THANK YOU.

BY MS. CLARK: SEE THESE OFFICERS DOWN HERE, SIR?

YES.

WHERE DO THEY APPEAR TO BE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE PALM TREE?

AGAIN, THE DEPTH PERCEPTION IS VERY BAD, BUT I WOULD SAY THEY WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF THE PALM TREE PROBABLY SOMEWHERE AROUND THE CURB OR IN THE STREET ITSELF.

ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE NOON HOUR. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU, DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU REGARDING THE CASE. WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE AT 1:30. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, YOU'RE EXCUSED AND ORDERED TO RETURN AT 1:30.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. LET ME SEE COUNSEL JUST BRIEFLY.

BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL THE PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US? DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE'VE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND.

RONALD PHILLIPS, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

GOOD AFTERNOON, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

GOOD AFTERNOON, YOUR HONOR.

YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. AND, MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONCLUDE YOUR REDIRECT.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MS. CLARK:

YOU RECALL WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS SHOWN TO YOU BY THE DEFENSE I THINK MARKED D-127?

YES.

ALL RIGHT. I THINK WHEN YOU LEFT OFF, YOU WERE INDICATING THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS SHOWN IN THE RIGHT-HAND --

MAY I GET DOWN, YOUR HONOR?

YES. SORRY ABOUT THAT. YOU WERE INDICATING THAT THESE POLICE OFFICERS I'VE INDICATED WITH LASER LIGHT YOU BELIEVE WERE STANDING ON -- EITHER ON THE STREET OR ON THE CURB IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

WELL --

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. I THINK HE CAN TELL US WHAT HE SAW WITHOUT RECAPITULATING AFTER LUNCH.

OVERRULED.

WITH THE DEPTH PERCEPTION, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL WHERE THEY ARE STANDING. BUT IN RELATION TO THE PALM TREE, I'D SAY EITHER ON THE CURB OR POSSIBLY IN THE STREET, AT LEAST ON THIS SIDE OF THE WALKWAY FOR SURE (INDICATING).

BY MS. CLARK: UH-HUH. AND YOU INDICATED -- LET ME ASK YOU THEN, THIS WAS THE PERSON THAT YOU INDICATED WAS WHERE?

WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT PERSON IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PALM TREE PROBABLY ON THE SIDEWALK AREA. BUT AGAIN, DEPTH PERCEPTION, I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S STANDING IN THE GRASS OR ON THE SIDEWALK.

IT'S HARD TO TELL ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS IT?

IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL.

UH-HUH. AND THIS PERSON YOU INDICATE AS ROKAHR WAS PHOTOGRAPHER ROKAHR?

YES.

AND CAN YOU TELL WHERE HE IS, WHETHER HE'S IN THE SHRUBBERY OR ON THE SIDEWALK?

I CAN'T TELL WHERE HE'S STANDING.

NOW, THIS PERSON IS THE PHOTOGRAPHER THAT TOOK PICTURES AT THE CRIME SCENE?

YES.

AND DOES A PHOTOGRAPHER HAVE TO GET -- WALK INTO THE CRIME SCENE IN ORDER TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE EVIDENCE?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, WHAT HE HAS TO DO. CONCLUSION, SPECULATION.

SUSTAINED.

BY MS. CLARK: HOW DOES A PHOTOGRAPHER GET INTO A CRIME SCENE? HOW DOES A PHOTOGRAPHER GET TO TAKE PICTURES OF THE EVIDENCE?

WELL, AS THE EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED, THE DETECTIVE IN CHARGE OF THE INVESTIGATION WILL ASK HIM TO TAKE CERTAIN PHOTOGRAPHS AS THE INVESTIGATION IS TAKING PLACE. HE'LL STAND IN THE AREA OR STAND OUTSIDE THE AREA UNTIL SOME EVIDENCE OR SOMETHING THAT THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER WANTS TO BE PHOTOGRAPHED COMES ALONG, AND THEN HE'LL CALL HIM IN TO PHOTOGRAPH THAT PARTICULAR PIECE OF EVIDENCE OR ITEM AND THEN HE'LL BACK OFF AGAIN. HE'S READY TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS ALL ALONG THE CRIME SCENE.

SO IS THIS A PERSON THAT HAS AUTHORITY TO BE IN THE CRIME SCENE?

AT THE DIRECTION OF THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER, YES.

OKAY. AND THEN THE PERSON HERE THAT YOU INDICATED -- AND HERE THAT YOU INDICATED ARE CORONER'S INVESTIGATORS?

YES.

DO CORONER'S -- WHAT DO CORONER'S INVESTIGATORS HAVE TO DO WITH RESPECT TO THE BODIES?

WELL, THEY HAVE TO PREPARE THE BODIES TO BE MOVED FROM THE LOCATION. THEY HAVE TO BE IN THE AREA.

UH-HUH. SO DO THEY HAVE AUTHORITY TO BE INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE?

YES.

AND WHAT ABOUT THIS PERSON HERE YOU INDICATED, DENNIS FUNG, THE CRIMINALIST?

YES.

WHAT DOES THE CRIMINALIST DO AT A CRIME SCENE?

COLLECT AND BOOK, PREPARE EVIDENCE. HE'S IN A CRIME SCENE UNDER THE DIRECTION OF AN INVESTIGATING OFFICER OR ON HIS OWN DIRECTION AS HE GOES ALONG THE CRIME SCENE.

AND DOES HE HAVE TO BE ALLOWED INTO THE CRIME SCENE IN ORDER TO DO THAT?

YES.

SO THE FOUR PEOPLE THAT WE SEE HERE, THE PHOTOGRAPHER, THE CRIMINALIST, THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATORS THAT APPEAR TO BE IN THE CRIME SCENE ALL GENERALLY HAVE AUTHORITY TO BE THERE?

YES, AT THE PROPER TIME.

UH-HUH. THANK YOU, SIR. HAVE A -- GO AHEAD AND HAVE A SEAT.

BY MS. CLARK: NOW, WHO IS PERMITTED TO TOUCH THE BODY OR DO ANYTHING ASSOCIATED CLOSELY WITH THE BODY OF A HOMICIDE VICTIM?

WELL, THE CORONER'S OFFICE IS THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO TOUCH THE BODY AND ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THE POCKETS OF THE BODY AND PULL ANYTHING OUT OF THE POCKETS OR OFF THE BODY, OF THE DECEASED. HOMICIDE DETECTIVES DON'T DO THAT. WE DON'T MOVE THE BODIES UNTIL THE CORONER'S OFFICE ARRIVES, AND THEY ACTUALLY DO THE MOVING OF THE BODY.

AND THEY'RE THE ONLY ONES ALLOWED TO MOVE THE BODY, AREN'T THEY?

YES.

YOUR HONOR, CAN WE CUT THE FEED? PEOPLE'S 46.

BY MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU SEE THIS SCENE AS YOU'VE IDENTIFIED IT BEFORE; IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?

YES.

SEE THE PALM TREE THERE?

YES.

AND THAT PALM TREE, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE IN THE SAME LOCATION AS THE ONE SHOWN IN THE EARLIER PHOTOGRAPH?

YES.

SO SOMEONE -- THAT'S ALL. NOW, LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING, SIR.

YOU WERE SHOWN A PICTURE OF A SPEED DIALER INSIDE OF NICOLE BROWN'S CONDOMINIUM UPON WHICH WAS MARKED "DADDY"?

YES. YES.

COULD YOU TELL IF THAT "DADDY" REFERRED TO HER FATHER OR THE CHILDREN'S FATHER?

THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR.

IF YOU CAN TELL FROM THE PHOTOGRAPH.

I DIDN'T HEAR WHAT YOU SAID.

IF HE CAN TELL FROM THE PHOTOGRAPH. BUT HE SAID HE HAD NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE.

THAT'S RIGHT.

SO -- NO. IT'S OVERRULED. IF HE CAN TELL FROM THE PHOTOGRAPH. CAN YOU TELL FROM THE PHOTOGRAPH WHO "DADDY" IS?

NO, SIR.

BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU HAD KNOWN THAT THAT WAS MR. SIMPSON'S PHONE NUMBER, WOULD YOU HAVE DIALED IT?

NO.

WHY NOT?

BECAUSE I WANTED TO TRY AND MAKE THE NOTIFICATION IN PERSON.

SIR, WHEN YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM, HOW LONG DID YOU INTEND TO SPEND THERE?

YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT'S --

THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL, YOUR HONOR.

OVERRULED.

AS SHORT A TIME AS POSSIBLE. I MEAN WE WENT THERE --

HE'S ANSWERED THAT, YOUR HONOR.

HE HASN'T.

SUSTAINED. ASK THE NEXT QUESTION.

BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU WENT THERE WHY?

WELL, I WENT THERE TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION AND TO ASSIST MR. SIMPSON IF HE NEEDED ANY ASSISTANCE WHATSOEVER. I NEEDED TO HAVE HIS CHILDREN PICKED UP AT WEST L.A. STATION. I WAS GOING TO OFFER HIM THAT SERVICE. I WAS ALSO GOING TO ASK HIM TO TRY TO MAKE EFFORTS TO NOT GO TO THE BUNDY LOCATION TO SEE THAT SCENE.

WAS IT YOUR INTENTION TO RETURN TO THE BUNDY SCENE?

AFTER ROCKINGHAM?

YES.

NO.

NOW, DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WHETHER THE CORONER'S REPRESENTATIVES STAYED AROUND AFTER THE BODIES OF RON AND NICOLE WERE MOVED?

NO, I DON'T.

DO YOU KNOW -- THE PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN TO YOU BY DEFENSE COUNSEL, D-1027, DO YOU RECALL THAT PHOTOGRAPH, THE ONE I JUST SHOWED YOU BEFORE THE LAST ONE?

YES.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THAT PICTURE WAS TAKEN?

NO, I DON'T.

ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU SPOKE TO CATHY RANDA ON THE TELEPHONE, SIR?

I SPOKE TO A CATHY. I DON'T KNOW HER LAST NAME.

BEFORE YOU SPOKE TO HER, WHEN YOU ASKED ARNELLE WHERE HER FATHER WAS AND SHE TOLD YOU THAT SHE DIDN'T KNOW, WAS THAT --

OBJECTION. THIS QUESTION IS OBJECTIONABLE, CALLS FOR HEARSAY.

THIS IS WHAT WAS EARLIER TESTIFIED TO. BASED UPON HIS SUBSEQUENT ACTION.

IT'S NOT CLEAR.

TALKED ABOUT IT ON DIRECT AND CROSS, YOUR HONOR.

AFTER HE SPOKE TO ARNELLE, WHAT'S THE QUESTION?

I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FINISH IT.

WHAT'S THE QUESTION. AFTER HE SPOKE TO ARNELLE, WHAT?

AFTER HE SPOKE TO ARNELLE AND AFTER YOU ASKED ARNELLE WHERE HER FATHER WAS AND SHE TOLD YOU SHE DIDN'T KNOW, DID YOU GO --

OBJECT TO THIS PART AS HEARSAY.

AFTER HE SPOKE TO ARNELLE.

OKAY. WHEN -- YOUR HONOR, THIS IS A SUBJECT MATTER HE'S TESTIFIED TO ON DIRECT AND ON CROSS BEFORE.

I REALIZE THAT, BUT THERE'S AN OBJECTION AT THIS POINT. HE SPOKE TO ARNELLE, THEN WHAT?

BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID ARNELLE TELL YOU ABOUT WHERE HER FATHER WAS?

HEARSAY.

THIS EXPLAINS SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT.

OVERRULED.

ARNELLE NEVER TOLD ME WHERE HER FATHER WAS.

BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID SHE INDICATE TO YOU?

ARE YOU TALKING OUTSIDE THE HOUSE OR AFTER WE CAME INSIDE THE HOUSE?

YES. OUTSIDE THE HOUSE.

SHE -- I ASKED HER IF SHE KNEW WHERE HER FATHER WAS AND SHE MADE SOME GESTURE TOWARD THE HOUSE AND SAID, " IS HE IN THE HOUSE," OR, "ISN'T HE THERE?" I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. AT THAT TIME, PHIL VANNATTER BEGAN TALKING TO HER AND I DIDN'T TALK TO HER ANYMORE.

THEN INSIDE THE HOUSE, DID YOU HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATIONS WITH HER ABOUT WHERE HER FATHER WAS?

I ASKED HER IF SHE COULD FIND OUT WHERE HER FATHER WAS AT AND THEN SHE TOLD ME CATHY, HIS SECRETARY, WOULD KNOW WHERE HER FATHER WAS AT AND THAT SHE WOULD CALL HER.

AND THEN SHE MADE A PHONE CALL?

YES.

WHEN YOU -- AND THEN YOU SPOKE TO CATHY. IS THAT WHAT YOU TESTIFIED TO EARLIER?

YES.

WHEN YOU SPOKE TO CATHY, DID YOU TELL HER THE DEFENDANT'S EX-WIFE HAD BEEN KILLED?

I MENTIONED -- I BELIEVE I MENTIONED -- NOT TO CATHY, NO.

ALL RIGHT. THEN YOU INDICATED THAT YOU CALLED THE DEFENDANT IN CHICAGO?

YES.

NOW, AFTER YOU ADVISED HIM THAT HIS EX-WIFE HAD BEEN KILLED, YOU INDICATED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT HE SAID, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHE'S BEEN KILLED? OH, MY GOD, NICOLE IS DEAD." DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY?

YES.

WAS THERE ANY PAUSE BETWEEN HIS QUESTION, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHE'S BEEN KILLED," AND, "OH, MY GOD, NICOLE IS DEAD"?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. HE'S ALREADY DESCRIBED THIS BEFORE. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. IT'S IMPROPER.

YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO COUNSEL'S SPEAKING OBJECTIONS.

WAIT. OVERRULED.

BY MS. CLARK: WAS THERE ANY PAUSE AFTER THIS STATEMENT, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHE'S BEEN KILLED"?

NO.

DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO OFFER ANY INFORMATION OR INTERJECT?

OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR CONCLUSION. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION.

OVERRULED.

NO.

BY MS. CLARK: DID HE EVER REPEAT, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHE'S BEEN KILLED," AFTER THAT, THAT ONE TIME?

DID HE EVER ASK ABOUT THE CHILDREN BEFORE YOU BROUGHT UP THAT SUBJECT ABOUT WHERE THEY WERE?

NO. EVENTUALLY WHEN I GOT HIS ATTENTION AGAIN IS WHEN I MENTIONED THE CHILDREN. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, THIS CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE VERY QUICKLY. HE WAS TALKING AND I WAS TALKING AND EVERYBODY WAS A LITTLE BIT EXCITED.

UH-HUH. BUT YOU WERE THE ONE THAT BROUGHT UP THE CHILDREN FIRST?

WELL, I TOLD HIM, I SAID, "MR. SIMPSON, TRY TO GET AHOLD OF YOURSELF. I HAVE YOUR CHILDREN AT THE POLICE STATION."

OKAY. AND AT THAT POINT, HE ASKED YOU WHY ARE THEY AT THE STATION?

YES.

AND WAS IT AFTER THAT POINT THAT HE TOLD YOU HE WOULD TAKE THE NEXT FLIGHT?

YES.

AND YOU THEN -- AT SOME POINT, YOU OFFERED HIM YOUR PAGER NUMBER AS YOU TESTIFIED. WHEN WAS THAT?

THAT WAS TOWARDS THE END OF THE CONVERSATION WHEN I SAID, "IF YOU NEED SOMETHING, TAKE MY PAGER NUMBER DOWN AND MY OFFICE NUMBER DOWN AND GIVE ME A CALL IF I CAN DO ANYTHING FOR YOU." AND THEN WHEN I GOT BACK TO THE STATION LATER ON THAT DAY, THERE WAS A MESSAGE THAT HE HAD CALLED.

SO HE DID TAKE YOUR PAGER NUMBER DOWN WHEN YOU GAVE IT TO HIM?

OBJECT TO THAT, YOUR HONOR. THAT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

SUSTAINED.

BY MS. CLARK: BUT AFTER YOU GAVE THE PAGER NUMBER, HE DID IN FACT PAGE YOU?

AS I SAID, I GAVE HIM MY PAGER NUMBER AND MY OFFICE NUMBER. HE DID NOT PAGE ME. HE CALLED ME AT THE OFFICE, LEFT A MESSAGE THROUGH THE DESK PERSONNEL AT THE OFFICE, AND THAT'S THE PINK SLIP I GOT AS A MESSAGE THAT MR. SIMPSON HAD CALLED. AND SO HE DID NOT CALL ME ON MY PAGER.

AND WAS IT AFTER -- AND DID HIS REQUEST TO SPEAK TO ARNELLE CONCLUDE YOUR CONVERSATION?

YES. I DID NOT TALK TO HIM AGAIN.

NOW, COUNSEL WAS SHOWING YOU YOUR REPORT. I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU -- I BELIEVE MR. COCHRAN ENDED AT THE END OF PAGE 1. LET'S GO ON TO PAGE 2, AT THE END OF YOUR REPORT, ASK YOU TO READ THAT.

TO HIMSELF.

YES, AS HE'S DOING.

YES. I DIDN'T DO THAT.

RIGHT AFTER LUNCH.

BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AT THE END OF YOUR REPORT, SIR, WHAT WAS THE -- WHAT DID YOU PUT DOWN?

OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. HE READ THE REPORT AND TESTIFIED. IMPROPER QUESTION.

HEARSAY. SUSTAINED.

ALSO BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED, ALSO IMPROPER.

IT HAS NOT BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

I ALREADY SUSTAINED IT. IT'S HEARSAY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

BY MS. CLARK: SIR, DID YOU -- WHEN YOU INFORMED THE DEFENDANT THAT HIS EX-WIFE HAD BEEN KILLED, DID YOU SAY SHE HAD BEEN MURDERED?

NO. I SAID SHE HAD BEEN KILLED.

DID HE ASK YOU IF IT WAS IN A TRAFFIC ACCIDENT?

YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION. THIS IS IMPROPER DIRECT EXAMINATION -- IMPROPER REDIRECT EXAMINATION. THIS IS IMPROPER REDIRECT EXAMINATION.

OVERRULED.

NO.

BY MS. CLARK: AND DID YOU FIND THAT TO BE UNUSUAL, SIR?

OBJECT TO THAT, YOUR HONOR, UNUSUAL. OBJECT TO THAT. THERE'S NO STANDARD.

SUSTAINED.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

BY MS. CLARK: HAVE YOU MADE ANY NOTIFICATIONS --

COUNSEL, WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE SLOPPY ON SPEAKING OBJECTIONS ON BOTH SIDES HERE. SO -- NO. TRUST ME. ON BOTH SIDES. SO AT THIS POINT, MAKE YOUR OBJECTION, STATE ONE OF 12 RECOGNIZED LEGAL GROUNDS TO OBJECT. I'LL RULE. IF I NEED AN EXPLANATION, I'LL ASK FOR IT. THANK YOU. PROCEED.

BY MS. CLARK: HOW MANY NOTIFICATIONS OF DEATH HAVE YOU MADE TO NEXT OF KIN IN YOUR YEARS AS A POLICE OFFICER AND DETECTIVE?

I DON'T KNOW. FAR TOO MANY I'M SURE. COUPLE HUNDRED.

AND WAS IT COMMON IN YOUR EXPERIENCE FOR NEXT OF KIN TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE HOMICIDE HAD OCCURRED?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. OBJECT TO THE FROM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, AND I WOULD BE GLAD TO EMBELLISH IT.

OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION YES OR NO.

THE QUESTION AGAIN, PLEASE?

IS IT COMMON IN YOUR EXPERIENCE FOR THE NEXT OF KIN TO ASK QUESTIONS AS TO HOW THE DEATH OCCURRED?

USUALLY OCCURS THAT WAY, YES.

BY MS. CLARK: AND SO DID YOU FIND THE DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO BE UNUSUAL IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?

OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.

SUSTAINED. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

HIS BELIEF ABOUT HIS OWN --