Johnnie Cochran cross-examines Detective Ron Phillips on the civil trial stand, pressing him on the timeline of crime scene photographer Rokahr's arrival, what he told detectives Lange and Vannatter upon their arrival (particularly regarding OJ's domestic violence history), and critical failures to document or photograph key evidence inside the Bundy residence. Phillips repeatedly falls back on pure memory, having written no report and taken no notes, and disputes that he ever told Lange and Vannatter about the domestic violence history — even as Cochran reads from Lange's own follow-up report.
# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) # 2 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU MAY RESUME.
# 3 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
# 4 Q: NOW, YOU HAVE NOW READ THIS SECOND PARAGRAPH, HAVEN'T YOU, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
# 6 Q: AND DOES THIS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO WHAT TIME THE PHOTOGRAPHER ROLF ROKAHR ARRIVED AT THE SCENE THAT NIGHT?
# 8 Q: THAT DOESN'T HELP YOU AT ALL?
# 9 A: NO. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CRIME SCENE LOG TO ASK WHAT TIME HE GOT THERE.
# 10 Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET ME SHOW YOU THE CRIME SCENE LOG AND LET'S SEE TOGETHER WE CAN -- READ THAT TO YOURSELF ALSO.
# 11 THE COURT: THAT IS DEFENSE 1006.
# 12 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE OTHER HAS NOT BEEN MARKED YET?
# 13 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS: KIND OF HARD TO -- KIND OF HARD TO READ. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT TIME IS. IT IS 03 SOMETHING AND 0315 I AM GUESSING.
# 14 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: HARD TO READ; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 16 Q: NOW, BETWEEN THESE TWO DOCUMENTS, ONE INDICATING HE ARRIVED AT MIDNIGHT AND THE OTHER AT ABOUT --
# 17 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. OBJECTION.
# 18 THE COURT: SUSTAINED. HEARSAY.
# 19 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT.
# 20 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT --
# 21 MS. CLARK: THERE WILL BE A MOTION TO STRIKE COUNSEL'S QUESTION FROM THE RECORD.
# 22 THE COURT: THE OBJECTION IS SUSTAINED. THERE IS NO ANSWER.
# 23 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE PHOTOGRAPHER CAME THERE AT TWELVE O'CLOCK AND ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION BEFORE YOU AND FUHRMAN ARRIVED THERE?
# 24 A: I DON'T SEE HOW HE COULD HAVE DONE THAT.
# 25 Q: ALL RIGHT. CAN I ASK YOU THEN TO READ THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH TO YOURSELF.
# 26 A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.) YES, SIR.
# 27 Q: HAVE YOU READ THAT?
# 29 Q: DOES THAT IN ANY WAY REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
# 30 A: WELL, I THINK IF I WERE READING THAT PARAGRAPH I WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME THAT HE HAD MYSELF AND FUHRMAN MIXED UP WITH VANNATTER AND LANGE.
# 31 Q: WELL, VANNATTER AND LANGE DIDN'T ARRIVE AT THE LOCATION BEFORE YOU DID, DID THEY?
# 32 A: VANNATTER AND LANGE ARRIVED AFTER THE PHOTOGRAPHER AND HE IS REFERRING TO THAT PARAGRAPH AS TO BEING TOLD TO TAKE OVERALL SCENES.
# 34 A: I TOLD HIM TO TAKE THOSE OVERALL SCENES AND I DIDN'T GET THERE UNTIL 2:10 IN THE MORNING, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW HE COULD HAVE SAID THAT BEFORE I ARRIVED.
# 35 Q: BUT WHEN HE SAID EARLIER THAT HE HAD ARRIVED AT MIDNIGHT AND YOU PUT THE TWO TOGETHER, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?
# 36 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.
# 37 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
# 38 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, AS YOU SIT THERE RIGHT NOW, DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME THE PHOTOGRAPHER ARRIVED?
# 39 A: THE PHOTOGRAPHER ARRIVED AFTER I DID. I THOUGHT HE ARRIVED AFTER THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING BECAUSE HE WALKED UP TO ME AND TALKED TO ME AND HE ASKED ME IF IT WAS OUR CASE AND I TOLD HIM IT HAD BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM US, IT WAS NOW ROBBERY/HOMICIDE'S CASE, AND HE SAID, "DO YOU MIND IF I GO AHEAD AND DO THE OVERALL PHOTOGRAPHS?" AND I SAID, "IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CRIME SCENE, IT WOULD SAVE SOME TIME. WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND DO THE OVERALL PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE STREETS, STREET SIGNS AND ALLEYS AND SO FORTH." I DIRECTED THAT PHOTOGRAPHER TO DO THAT.
# 40 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR THAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT YOU AND FUHRMAN, WHEN YOU WENT OVER TO ROCKINGHAM THE FIRST TIME, DID YOU TAKE THE PHOTOGRAPHER WITH YOU?
# 42 Q: YOU NEVER SAID TO THE PHOTOGRAPHER TO FOLLOW US OVER TO ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU WENT OVER TO GET GIVE THIS NOTIFICATION?
# 43 A: NO. FUHRMAN ASKED THE PHOTOGRAPHER TO GO BACK WITH HIM AFTER WE CAME BACK TO BUNDY AND THEN WE WENT -- HE WENT BACK TO ROCKINGHAM. FUHRMAN ASKED THE PHOTOGRAPHER TO GO WITH HIM AND THEN I MADE A NOTIFICATION TO SID TO SEND US OUT ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPHER BECAUSE WE HAD TWO CRIME SCENES.
# 44 Q: OKAY. THAT IS ALL FINE. MY QUESTION IS BEFORE YOU WENT OVER TO ROCKINGHAM, DID YOU EVER SAY TO THE PHOTOGRAPHER, ROKAHR, TO FOLLOW US OVER TO ROCKINGHAM ROAD BECAUSE THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL VICTIMS THERE? DID YOU EVER MAKE THAT STATEMENT TO HIM?
# 45 A: I NEVER MADE THAT STATEMENT TO HIM, NO.
# 46 Q: DID FUHRMAN EVER MAKE THAT STATEMENT TO HIM IN YOUR PRESENCE?
# 48 Q: ALL RIGHT. AT ANY RATE, WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THIS ICE CREAM, WHAT TIME WAS IT?
# 49 A: I WOULD SAY SOMEWHERE AROUND 2:20, 2:25 THE FIRST TIME WE WALKED THROUGH THE RESIDENCE.
# 50 Q: ALL RIGHT. IT WAS SOMETIME AFTER THAT, IN YOUR ESTIMATION, THAT THERE WERE PHOTOGRAPHERS ON THE SCENE THERE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 51 A: WELL, AGAIN, I CAN'T TELL YOU THE EXACT TIME, BUT IT WAS AFTER THREE O'CLOCK WHEN THE PHOTOGRAPHER ARRIVED AND I ASKED HIM TO DO THE OVERALL PHOTOGRAPHS.
# 52 Q: WHEN YOU ASKED HIM TO DO THESE OVERALL PHOTOGRAPHS, DID YOU EVER ASK HIM TO PHOTOGRAPHER THE INTERIOR OF THAT RESIDENCE?
# 53 A: THAT IS PART OF THE CRIME SCENE. I DIDN'T ASK HIM TO DO THAT.
# 54 Q: YOUR ANSWER IS NO?
# 55 A: I DID NOT ASK HIM TO DO THAT.
# 56 Q: BUT WHILE YOU WERE THERE AND BEFORE YOU LEFT TO GO OVER TO ROCKINGHAM, YOU NEVER ASKED MR. ROKAHR OR ANY OTHER PHOTOGRAPHER TO TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THE INTERIOR OF THAT RESIDENCE; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?
# 58 Q: AND SPECIFICALLY YOU NEVER ASKED HIM TO PHOTOGRAPH THE ICE CREAM CUP, DID YOU?
# 59 MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION. THIS WITNESS HAS ALREADY TESTIFIED THIS WAS NOT HAS CRIME SCENE, NOT HIS JOB TO DO. IT IS IRRELEVANT.
# 60 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 61 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU UNDERSTAND THE LAST QUESTION?
# 62 A: I DID NOT DIRECT THE PHOTOGRAPHER TO TAKE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS INSIDE THAT RESIDENCE.
# 63 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, ONCE YOU GOT INSIDE THE RESIDENCE, YOU WENT THROUGH THE KITCHEN; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 65 Q: AND ONCE YOU GOT INTO THE KITCHEN, YOU BECAME AWARE, DID YOU NOT, THAT A PHONE CALL HAD BEEN MADE FROM THE INTERIOR OF THAT RESIDENCE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 66 A: I DIDN'T -- WAS NOT MADE AWARE OF THAT UNTIL HOURS LATER.
# 67 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU KNEW, BY THE TIME YOU ENTERED THE RESIDENCE, DID YOU NOT, THAT THIS WAS THE HOME OF O.J. SIMPSON'S EX-WIFE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 68 A: AT THE TIME I ENTERED THE RESIDENCE THE FIRST TIME?
# 70 A: I DID NOT KNOW THAT.
# 71 Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN DID YOU BECOME AWARE OF THAT?
# 72 A: I CAN TELL YOU THAT I ASSUMED THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE CASE BECAUSE OF WHAT I WAS TOLD BY SERGEANT ROSSI, THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON MAY BE ONE OF THE VICTIMS. AS I WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE I NOTICED PHOTOGRAPHS. NEVER HAVING SEEN NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BEFORE, I WASN'T SURE IT WAS HER, BUT I DID SEE PHOTOGRAPHS OF O.J. SIMPSON WITH A FEMALE.
# 73 Q: YOU SAW HIS PICTURE INSIDE THE HOUSE, DIDN'T YOU?
# 75 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID THAT HELP YOU THINK THAT WAS MRS. O.J. SIMPSON OR MRS. NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE?
# 76 A: I WOULD HAVE HAD TO ASSUME IT WAS PROBABLY HER RESIDENCE, YES.
# 77 Q: NOW, IT IS TRUE, IS IT NOT, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, THAT UPON ARRIVAL AT THE CRIME SCENE, YOU MET LANGE AND VANNATTER AND YOU TOLD THEM THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON WAS THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON THE WELL-KNOWN ATHLETE ACTOR? YOU TOLD THEM THAT?
# 78 A: SOMEONE HAD TOLD ME THAT EARLIER IN THE EVENING.
# 79 Q: THE QUESTION IS DID YOU TELL THEM THAT WHEN THEY ARRIVED?
# 81 Q: THAT IS THE QUESTION. YOU ALSO TOLD THEM AT THAT TIME THAT MR. SIMPSON AND MRS. NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON HAD BEEN EMBROILED IN PREVIOUS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATIONS, ONE OF THESE RESULTING IN MR. SIMPSON HAVING TO GO TO COURT? YOU TOLD THEM THAT, TOO, DIDN'T YOU?
# 82 A: I NEVER TOLD HIM THAT.
# 83 Q: SO IF DETECTIVE LANGE SO INDICATES IN HIS REPORT HE IS WRONG?
# 84 A: IF HE TELLS YOU THAT I TOLD HIM THAT, HE MAY HAVE LEARNED THAT FROM DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, BUT HE DIDN'T GET THE INFORMATION FROM ME. I NEVER KNEW THAT.
# 85 MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
# 87 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS: SURE.
# 88 MR. COCHRAN: YOU BOTH GAVE ME PERMISSION. MAY I MARK THIS, YOUR HONOR?
# 89 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS: I'M SORRY?
# 91 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 92 MR. COCHRAN: I THINK I SHOULD MARK THIS YOUR HONOR, REFERRING TO THIS, AND I THINK THIS IS D-1021.
# 94 MR. COCHRAN: 1021. I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH AND I HAVE SHOWN THIS TO COUNSEL, IF I MIGHT.
# 95 (DEFT'S 1021 FOR ID = 1-PG REPORT) # 96 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT YOU TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS AFTER YOU READ THIS TO YOURSELF. I WANT YOU TO READ TWO PARAGRAPHS, PARAGRAPH 2 AND THE NEXT TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH, THAT ONE, TO YOURSELF, FIRST OF ALL.
# 97 A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.) THIS PARAGRAPH HERE, (INDICATING)?
# 98 Q: YES, SIR, THAT ONE.
# 99 A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.) OKAY.
# 100 Q: NOW, YOU HAVE READ THOSE TWO?
# 102 Q: I WANT TO ASK YOU THEN, DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION, SIR, THAT YOU IN FACT TOLD DETECTIVE LANGE ABOUT THIS PREVIOUS INCIDENT INVOLVING MR. SIMPSON AND HIS EX-WIFE RESULTING IN HIM GOING TO COURT AND THAT MR. SIMPSON RESIDED AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM PLACE IN BRENTWOOD?
DO YOU REMEMBER TELLING LANGE AND LANGE AND/OR VANNATTER THAT WHEN THEY ARRIVED ON THE SCENE?
# 103 A: I NEVER KNEW THAT, SIR, SO I COULDN'T POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN THE ONE THAT TOLD HIM.
KEY QUOTE # 104 Q: IF LANGE PUTS THAT IN HIS REPORT HE IS ALL WRONG, RIGHT?
# 105 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT MISSTATES WHAT COUNSEL HAS READ IN. HE INDICATES HERE BY REFERENCE, WHAT COUNSEL IS TRYING TO INDICATE, THEY WERE INFORMED UPON ARRIVAL.
# 106 MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT AN OBJECTION? THIS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
# 107 MS. CLARK: IT IS MISLEADING.
# 108 MR. COCHRAN: I WILL BE GLAD TO READ IT IN.
# 109 THE COURT: LET ME SEE THE DOCUMENT.
# 110 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. MAY I APPROACH?
# 111 THE COURT: YOU MAY.
# 113 THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
# 114 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. CAN YOU READ THE NEXT TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH ALSO. THERE WILL BE SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING THAT.
# 115 THE COURT: YES, I READ IT.
# 116 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. MAY I PROCEED?
# 117 THE COURT: YOU MAY.
# 118 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR ON THIS, DID YOU EVER SAY TO DETECTIVES LANGE AND/OR VANNATTER THAT WHEN THEY FIRST ARRIVED AT THE SCENE YOU WERE -- THEY WERE MET BY YOU? YOU ARE DETECTIVE 3 RON PHILLIPS, RIGHT?
# 119 (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) # 120 Q: IS THAT CORRECT?
# 122 Q: THE WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION HOMICIDE COORDINATOR; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 124 Q: "PHILLIPS STATED THAT VICTIM BROWN WAS THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON, THE WELL-KNOWN ATHLETE ACTOR." DID YOU EVER SAY THAT?
# 126 Q: WELL, DIDN'T YOU TELL US YOU FOUND THAT OUT AT SOME POINT, SOMEBODY ELSE TOLD YOU THAT?
# 127 A: SOMEONE TOLD ME THAT LATER THAT NIGHT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT BEFORE I GOT THERE.
# 128 Q: OKAY. BUT THIS IS AFTER THEY ARRIVED, SO IT IS AFTER YOU WERE THERE FOR A WHILE AND THEN ARRIVED AT 4:10.
# 130 Q: BY THAT TIME DID YOU KNOW IT?
# 131 A: I KNEW IT AFTER SOMEONE HAD TOLD ME I ARRIVED, YES.
# 132 Q: WHAT TIME WAS THAT?
# 133 A: SOME TIME BETWEEN 2:10 AND 4:30.
# 134 Q: OKAY. DID YOU KNOW IT BY THE TIME THAT LANGE AND VANNATTER ARRIVED?
# 135 A: I KNEW ABOUT HER BEING THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON, YES.
# 136 Q: DID YOU TELL LANGE OR VANNATTER THAT?
# 137 A: I DON'T RECALL TELLING VANNATTER AND LANGE THAT THIS WAS -- I BELIEVE ANOTHER DETECTIVE DID. I DON'T BELIEVE I DID.
# 138 Q: DOES THIS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT YOU TOLD HIM THAT?
# 139 A: WELL, MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT I DIDN'T.
# 140 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, VAGUE. TOLD HIM WHAT?
# 141 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
# 142 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DOES THIS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?
# 143 A: MY RECOLLECTION, SIR, AFTER READING THAT AND BEFORE READING THAT, IS THAT I DID NOT GIVE THAT INFORMATION TO VANNATTER OR LANGE.
# 144 Q: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. "ADDITIONALLY, PHILLIPS STATED THAT MR. SIMPSON AND VICTIM 1 HAD BEEN EMBROILED IN PREVIOUS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATIONS, ONE OF THESE RESULTING IN THE ARREST OF MR. SIMPSON." DID YOU TELL HIM THAT?
# 146 Q: "MR. SIMPSON RESIDED AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM PLACE IN BRENTWOOD APPROXIMATELY TWO MILES FROM THE CRIME SCENE." DID YOU TELL HIM THAT?
# 147 A: I DID NOT TELL HIM THAT. THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AS WE MADE OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT GOING UP TO ROCKINGHAM BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AFTER TALKING TO OFFICER RISKE.
# 148 Q: BUT YOUR ANSWER IS NOT ALL ANOTHER STUFF? YOU NEVER TOLD HIM THAT; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 149 A: WELL, THESE THINGS CAME UP. AS FAR AS THE ADDRESS ON ROCKINGHAM CAME UP IN A DISCUSSION THERE AND ABOUT O.J. SIMPSON BEING THE EX-HUSBAND OF NICOLE BROWN CAME UP, BUT NOTHING I RECALL CAME UP ABOUT ANY DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OR THE FACT THAT THEY WENT TO COURT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT UNTIL IN THIS CASE WAS LONG ON ITS WAY.
# 150 Q: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN NEVER TOLD YOU THAT HE RESPONDED TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION BACK IN 1985 AND HAD WRITTEN A REPORT IN 1989 FOUR YEARS LATER ABOUT THAT INCIDENT IN '85?
# 151 A: AFTER THIS CASE HE TOLD ME ABOUT IT, YES.
# 152 Q: I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT MORNING. HE DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT THAT MORNING, JUNE 13?
# 154 Q: HE NEVER TOLD YOU THAT?
# 156 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND NOW, SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, THIS DOCUMENT THAT I HAVE HERE -- MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
# 158 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS A FOLLOW-UP BY ONE OF THE DETECTIVES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 160 MR. COCHRAN: IT SAYS -- SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR, IT SAYS, "MURDER FOLLOW-UP," YOUR HONOR, "DR 94-0817431/32, PAGE 2."
# 161 Q: AND THAT IS DEFENDANT'S 1021; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?
# 163 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU ALSO INFORM THE DETECTIVES THAT MISS SIMPSON -- STRIKE THAT. WERE YOU ALSO INFORMED BY ARNELLE SIMPSON THAT HER FATHER WAS IN CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, AFTER LEAVING THE L.A. AREA LATE THE NIGHT BEFORE? DID SHE TELL YOU THAT?
# 164 A: SHE DID NOT TELL ME THAT. CATHY, AND I DON'T REMEMBER HER LAST NAME, IS THE ONE THAT TOLD ME THAT OVER THE TELEPHONE.
# 165 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID MISS SIMPSON TELL YOU, ARNELLE SIMPSON, THAT SHE HAD RETURNED HOME AT APPROXIMATELY ONE O'CLOCK AFTER ATTENDING THE MOVIES IN WESTWOOD?
# 166 A: SHE DIDN'T TELL ME THAT. I NEVER ASKED HER THAT QUESTION.
# 167 Q: OKAY. NOW, WHILE YOU WERE INSIDE THE HOUSE, DID YOU HEAR -- DID YOU GO IN THE LIVING ROOM AREA AT SOME POINT?
# 169 Q: AND DID YOU HEAR ANY MUSIC PLAYING IN THE LIVING ROOM?
# 171 Q: AND WHERE WAS THAT MUSIC EMANATING FROM?
# 172 A: WELL, I DIDN'T EXACTLY GO OVER AND LOOK AND SEE. I BELIEVE IT WAS COMING FROM A STEREO IN THE LIVING ROOM SOMEWHERE.
# 173 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU SEE SOME CANDLES SOME WHERE IN THE LIVING ROOM AREA OR DOWNSTAIRS AREA?
# 174 A: YEAH. THEY WERE ON A COFFEE TABLE OR SOME TYPE OF TABLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM.
# 175 Q: AND HOW MANY CANDLES DID YOU SEE?
# 176 A: THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER HOW MANY THERE WERE.
# 177 Q: ANY PICTURES EVER TAKEN OF THESE CANDLES?
# 178 A: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. I DIDN'T DIRECT ANYBODY TO TAKE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS.
# 179 Q: TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE DID VANNATTER AND LANGE EVER DIRECT ANYBODY TO TAKE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THESE CANDLES?
# 180 A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR. I HAVE NEVER ASKED.
# 181 Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY?
# 182 A: NO, I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS AT ALL.
# 183 Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU THEN WENT UPSTAIRS IN THIS CURSORY LOOK; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 185 MR. COCHRAN: BEFORE YOU WENT UPSTAIRS, I WANT TO SHOW YOU AN AREA IN THE KITCHEN, IF I MIGHT. YOUR HONOR, MAY I CUE THAT UP AND SHOW THIS TO HIM?
# 187 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT TO SHOW YOU AN AREA IN THE KITCHEN -- AND YOUR HONOR, I SUPPOSE -- HOW SHALL WE MARK THIS? 1022?
# 188 THE COURT: CAN WE HAVE FREEZE FRAME AND PRINT THAT?
# 189 MR. HARRIS: I HAVE DONE THAT ALREADY.
# 190 MR. COCHRAN: I DO HAVE A FREEZE FRAME OF IT.
# 191 THE COURT: THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE BETTER WAY TO DO IT.
# 192 MR. COCHRAN: OKAY, YOUR HONOR. I WOULD LIKE TO CUE THIS UP IF WE CAN.
# 193 MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR --
# 194 THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
# 195 MS. CLARK: PERHAPS WE COULD ASK THE FOUNDATIONAL QUESTION TO SEE IF IT IS RELEVANT.
# 196 MR. COCHRAN: WE COVERED THIS AREA.
# 197 THE COURT: I THOUGHT WE DEALT WITH THIS ALREADY.
# 198 MR. COCHRAN: WE COVERED THIS.
# 199 Q: PROCEED. IF YOU CAN LOOK AT THE MONITOR, PLEASE. I WILL ASK HIM TO --
# 200 MS. CLARK: HOW COME HE CUED THIS UP?
# 201 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CUT IT. CUT IT.
# 202 MR. HARRIS: IT WOULDN'T STAY, YOUR HONOR.
# 203 THE COURT: IT PROBABLY HAS ONE OF THOSE GIZMOS THAT AFTER IT HAS PAUSED SO THE HEADS DON'T FLAP OR THE ROLLERS. CAN WE GO BACK TO THAT LOCATION?
# 204 MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THEY HAVE A STILL PHOTO. WHY NOT JUST USE IT?
# 205 MR. COCHRAN: BECAUSE IT IS NOT AS CLEAR AS THE -- I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TRY MY CASE, IF I COULD.
# 206 MS. CLARK: ME, TOO.
# 207 MR. COCHRAN: I CAN TELL.
# 208 THE COURT: COUNSEL, WHY DON'T WE AT LEAST PROCEED WITH THE STILL PHOTO. I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY DISPUTE AS TO WHAT THOSE ITEMS ARE THERE.
# 209 MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY. MAYBE HE COULD GET IT CUED UP. I WOULD LIKE TO --
# 210 THE COURT: MR. HARRIS, YOU HAVE A SMALL MONITOR THERE ALREADY, DON'T YOU?
# 211 MR. HARRIS: UNFORTUNATELY THE VCR IS NOT CONNECTED TO ANY OF THOSE DEVICES.
# 212 THE COURT: TERRIFIC. OKAY.
# 213 MR. COCHRAN: PUT IT ON THIS MONITOR DOWN HERE, FIRST.
# 214 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S CUT THE BIG SCREEN.
# 215 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 216 THE COURT: CUT THE BIG SCREEN.
# 217 MR. DARDEN: ON THE JURY'S MONITOR?
# 218 THE COURT: IS THERE ANYTHING ON THE JURY'S MONITOR, SMALL MONITOR? ALL RIGHT. NO. ANYTHING ON THE SMALL MONITOR? JUROR NO. 8: NO.
# 219 THE COURT: THANK YOU.
# 220 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. BACK IT UP. BACK IT UP, NOW WE WOULD LIKE TO START AT THIS POINT, YOUR HONOR.
# 221 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PUT IT UP ON THE BIG SCREEN.
# 223 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, CAN YOU SEE THAT PHOTOGRAPH OF A TELEPHONE IN THE KITCHEN AREA OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY AVENUE? CAN YOU SEE THAT?
# 224 A: I CAN SEE THE PICTURE OF A TELEPHONE.
# 225 Q: YES. CAN YOU SEE THAT?
# 227 Q: OKAY. DO YOU SEE THE NAME -- DO YOU SEE THOSE DIALS AT THE TOP THERE? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE?
# 228 A: WELL, I THINK SO. I THINK THEY ARE SPEED DIALS.
# 229 Q: OKAY. I'M JUST ASKING. YOU HAVE TO TESTIFY. THOSE ARE SPEED DIALERS AND WHAT NAMES DO YOU SEE OPPOSITE THOSE SPEED DIALERS?
# 230 A: THE ONLY ONE I CAN MAKE OUT IS DADDY.
# 231 Q: DO YOU SEE DADDY ON THERE?
# 232 A: I CAN'T READ THE SECOND ONE.
# 233 Q: DO YOU SEE THE NAME DIITA, D-I-I-T-A, DASH, OPA, O-P-A?
# 235 Q: DO YOU SEE AFTER THAT CORA, C-O-R-A?
# 237 Q: DO YOU SEE ROBIN?
# 239 Q: AND THEN PAM. DO YOU SEE THOSE?
# 240 A: YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU WALKED THROUGH THAT KITCHEN AREA -- AND NOW I WOULD LIKE, YOUR HONOR, TO MARK I THINK THIS IS D-1022?
# 242 (DEFT'S 1022 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) # 243 MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THIS AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THIS UP CLOSE AND PERSONALLY TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, YOUR HONOR.
# 244 Q: WHEN YOU WERE IN THE KITCHEN AREA, OR IN THE LIVING ROOM AREA OR ANY ROOM WHERE THEY HAD PHONES, DID YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO GO OVER TO THE PHONES AND LOOK AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A SPEED DIALER WITH ANY INDICATION OF ANY NAMES CLOSE TO THE SPEED DIALER?
# 246 Q: SO LATER ON IN THE MORNING, WHEN YOU WERE LOOKING, TRYING TO REACH O.J. SIMPSON BY PHONE, IF YOU HAD LOOKED AT THAT SPEED DIALER, YOU COULD HAVE DETERMINED RIGHT OFF THAT PHONE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 247 A: IF I HAD KNOWN ABOUT IT.
KEY QUOTE # 248 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, OBJECTION. THAT MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. HE WASN'T TRYING TO REACH MR. SIMPSON BY PHONE, YOUR HONOR.
# 249 THE COURT: OVERRULED. NO, HE WAS --
# 250 MS. CLARK: HE WAS IN ORDER TO SEE HIM PERSONALLY. MISLEADING.
# 251 THE COURT: RIGHT. OVERRULED. ALL RIGHT. BUT I THINK WE HAVE ABOUT EXHAUSTED THIS.
# 252 MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. WELL, I WAS INTERRUPTED, BUT LET ME ASK ONE LAST QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
# 253 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
# 254 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU NEVER LOOKED AT ANY OF THE PHONES IN THE HOUSE TO DETERMINE WHETHER DADDY'S PHONE NUMBER WAS RIGHT THERE ON THE SPEED DIALER, DID YOU?
# 256 Q: NOW, WHEN YOU GOT UP THE STAIRS --
# 257 THE COURT: THANK YOU, MR. HARRIS.
# 258 MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
# 259 Q: WHEN YOU GOT UP THE STAIRS, YOU WENT TO THE MASTER BEDROOM YOU DESCRIBED FOR US; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 261 Q: YOU SAW THAT THE BED APPEARED MUSSED OR MESSED UP; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 263 Q: UNMADE. AND YOU SAW MORE CANDLES BURNING AROUND THE BATHTUB AREA?
# 264 A: IN THE MASTER BATHROOM, YES.
Q MASTER BATHROOM. AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CANDLES THERE WERE LIT IN THE MASTER BATHROOM AREA?
# 265 A: THERE WAS MORE THAN -- PROBABLY A COUPLE OR MORE.
# 267 A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR.
# 269 A: TWO OR THREE MAYBE.
# 270 Q: HAVE YOU SEEN ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THOSE SINCE THAT TIME?
# 271 A: I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY PHOTOGRAPHS AT ALL.
# 272 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU SEE ANY BATH WATER IN THE BATHTUB IN THE MASTER BEDROOM?
# 273 A: I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING ANY WATER IN THE MASTER BATHTUB.
# 274 Q: YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF THAT?
# 276 Q: DID YOU WRITE A REPORT IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR OBSERVATIONS INSIDE THAT RESIDENCE?
# 278 Q: YOU DID NOT WRITE A REPORT AT ALL?
# 280 Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY NOTES?
# 282 Q: SO WHAT YOU ARE TESTIFYING ABOUT TODAY IS PURELY AND SIMPLY YOUR MEMORY FROM JUNE 13 EARLY MORNING HOURS; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 283 A: THAT IS ALL I HAVE GOT TO GO WITH.
KEY QUOTE # 284 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND NOW, DID YOU LOOK INTO THIS -- THE TWO OTHER BEDROOMS UPSTAIRS THAT BELONGED TO THE CHILDREN WHILE YOU WERE THERE?
# 285 A: JUST BRIEFLY, YES.
# 286 Q: HAD THE CHILDREN BEEN TAKEN OUT AT THAT POINT?
# 288 Q: INSIDE THAT RESIDENCE DID YOU -- STRIKE THAT. DID YOU SEE A TELEVISION ON IN THE MASTER BEDROOM?
# 289 A: YES, I DID, SIR.
# 290 Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ELSE IN THAT MASTER BEDROOM WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT YET?
# 292 Q: ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU COMPLETED YOUR TOUR OF THE INTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE, YOU CAME BACK OUTSIDE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 294 Q: AND HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU GO ON TOURS, IF CAN CALL THEM THAT, OF THE EXTERIOR OF THAT PARTICULAR RESIDENCE THAT MORNING, BEFORE YOU FINALLY LEFT?
# 295 A: I BELIEVE I WENT ON THREE, POSSIBLY FOUR.
# 296 Q: THREE, PERHAPS FOUR?
# 297 A: I THINK IT WAS THREE.
# 298 Q: ALL RIGHT. LET'S TAKE THE FIRST ONE.
# 299 A: I WENT WITH RISKE.
# 300 Q: THE FIRST ONE, IS THAT WENT YOU WENT UP THROUGH THE FRONT?
# 302 Q: THROUGH THE KIND OF FOLIAGE AREA THERE WHERE THE PLANTS ARE?
# 304 Q: RISKE LED YOU THROUGH THAT WAY, DID HE?
# 306 Q: WHEN YOU WENT UP BY THE CALL BOX?
# 308 Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE -- BY THE WAY, DID YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHECK TO SEE HOW THAT CALL BOX WORKED?
# 310 Q: DID YOU SEE ANY OFFICERS THERE CHECK THAT CALL BOX TO SEE HOW IT WORKED THAT MORNING?
# 311 A: I DON'T RECALL ANYBODY CHECKING THAT CALL BOX.
# 312 Q: YOU NEVER SAW LANGE OR VANNATTER DO THAT EITHER?
# 313 A: I KNOW THAT I OVERHEARD A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHO WAS DOING IT.
# 314 Q: WELL, DID YOU EVER SEE ANYBODY DO IT? THAT IS THE QUESTION.
# 315 A: I MAY HAVE GONE OUT AT ONE TIME TO LISTEN FOR A CLICK, MUCH LATER ON IN THE DAY. I THINK I DID THAT ONCE.
# 317 A: WELL, AS I SAY, IT WAS MUCH LATER IN THE DAY.
# 319 A: I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE TIME, SIR. IT WOULD BE LATER -- IN FACT, IT MAY NOT EVEN HAVE BEEN THAT DAY.
# 320 Q: DID YOU HAVE A REPORT ON THAT?
# 322 Q: IT IS NOT ON YOUR LOG? YOU LEFT AT TEN O'CLOCK, RIGHT?
# 323 A: WELL, THAT IS ONE OF THE TIMES I LEFT THERE AT TEN O'CLOCK, AND AS I SAID, IT MAY NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT DAY THAT I AM REFERRING TO, BUT I REMEMBER LISTENING TO THAT CLICK SOMETIME DURING THIS INVESTIGATION AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT DAY IT WAS.
# 324 Q: BUT WEREN'T YOU OFF THE CASE AFTER THAT MORNING? WHY WERE YOU BACK OUT THERE LISTENING TO A CLICK?
# 325 A: OH, THERE WAS TIMES WHEN THEY CALLED US UP TO ASSIST, TO GO OUT AND ASSIST THEM IN DOING STUFF OR --
# 326 Q: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, IF YOU LISTENED TO A CLICK AND YOU HEARD A CLICK, CAN YOU SHOW ME A REPORT WHERE YOU WROTE THAT DOWN OR YOU TOLD SOMEBODY ABOUT THAT?
# 327 A: I DIDN'T WRITE ANYTHING DOWN.
# 328 Q: WHAT ELSE DID YOU GO BACK OUT AND DO THAT YOU HAVE NOT WRITTEN DOWN?
# 329 A: THAT WOULD BE IT.
# 330 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THE QUESTION WAS, THOUGH, DID YOU SEE ANY DETECTIVES THAT MORNING CHECKING THAT CALL BOX OUT AND SEEING HOW IT WORKED FROM INSIDE THE RESIDENCE?
# 331 A: I DON'T RECALL SEEING ANYBODY DO THAT.
# 332 Q: OKAY. WHILE YOU WERE THERE, IN ADDITION TO CALLING THE CORONER, IT IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT, IS IT NOT, TO CALL THE CRIMINALIST OUT SO THEY CAN START TRYING TO COLLECT EVIDENCE. THAT IS IMPORTANT ALSO, ISN'T IT?
# 333 A: THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BY THE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO THE SCENE.
# 334 Q: LISTEN TO MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT, IS IT NOT, TO CALL THE CRIMINALIST EARLY TO THE SCENE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 336 Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DURING THE TIME THAT YOU WERE IN CHARGE, BETWEEN 2:10 TO 2:38, DID YOU EVER CALL THE CRIMINALIST?
# 338 Q: DO YOU KNOW THE NAMES OF THE CRIMINALISTS WHO ULTIMATELY CAME TO THIS PARTICULAR CASE?
# 339 A: I ONLY KNOW OF ONE. I THINK THAT WAS FONG.
# 344 Q: DID MR. FUNG COME TO THE SCENE PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT?
# 346 Q: THE BUNDY SCENE?
# 347 A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME MR. FUNG GOT TO THE BUNDY SCENE. I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM.
# 348 Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT I'M ASKING YOU YOUR RECOLLECTION. YOU WENT BACK TO BUNDY?
# 349 A: I DON'T RECALL HIM COMING TO THAT LOCATION.
# 350 Q: WELL, YOU WERE THERE WHEN THE CORONERS GOT THERE ABOUT 9:10 IN THE MORNING, RIGHT?
# 352 Q: WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT THE CORONERS CAME BEFORE THE CRIMINALIST CAME?
# 353 A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR.
# 354 Q: WELL, IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT THE LOG, WOULD THAT HELP YOU AGAIN?
# 355 A: IT WOULD TELL ME WHAT TIME THEY GOT THERE, BUT IT STILL WOULDN'T REFRESH MY MEMORY AS TO ME SEEING THEM THERE.
# 356 Q: YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF SEEING HIM AT ALL AT BUNDY?
# 357 A: NO, I DON'T, NOT THAT MORNING.
# 358 Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU SEE HIM AT ROCKINGHAM?
# 359 A: LATER ON IN THE DAY, YES.
# 360 Q: I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THE MORNING NOW. DID YOU SEE HIM IN THE MORNING?
# 362 Q: WHAT IS THE CRIMINALIST'S JOB?
# 363 A: TO OBTAIN THE EVIDENCE, TO BOOK IT, TO OBTAIN IT.
# 364 Q: AND THEY ARE CALLED USUALLY BY THE INVESTIGATING DETECTIVES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 366 Q: AND YOU KNOW, DO YOU NOT, THAT THE CRIMINALISTS ARE ON 24-HOUR CALL, AREN'T THEY?
# 367 A: WELL, SURE THEY ARE.
# 368 Q: JUST LIKE YOU ARE AS THE DETECTIVE?
# 370 Q: YOU NEVER CALLED FOR THE CRIMINALIST AND AS FAR AS YOU KNOW YOU NEVER HEARD LANGE OR VANNATTER CALL FOR THE CRIMINALIST TO COME OUT TO BUNDY, AT LEAST WHILE YOU WERE THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 371 A: WELL, I'M NOT SAYING THEY DIDN'T CALL WHILE I WAS THERE.
# 372 Q: I'M ASKING DID YOU EVER HEAR THEM CALL WHILE YOU WERE THERE, SIR? THAT IS ALL I'M ASKING.
# 373 A: I DID NOT HEAR THE CALL GO OUT TO CALL THEM, YES.
# 374 Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE, RIGHT?
# 375 A: WHILE I WAS THERE.
# 376 Q: OKAY. NOW, WE HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS. FIRST WHEN YOU TOOK THE FIRST EXTERIOR TOUR WITH RISKE, YOU DIDN'T GO INSIDE THE HOUSE AT THAT POINT, RIGHT?
# 378 Q: YOU WENT INSIDE?
# 379 A: WELL, AT SOME TIME DURING THAT FIRST INITIAL CURSORY WALK THROUGH OF THE CRIME SCENE OFFICER RISKE WALKED US THROUGH THE HOUSE.
# 380 Q: I THOUGHT ON THE FIRST ONE, WHEN YOU WALKED UP IN THE KIND OF FOLIAGE AREA, I THOUGHT YOU WALKED UP TO THE CALL BOX. DID YOU GO IN THE HOUSE AT THAT POINT?
# 381 A: WELL, WE WALKED UP TO WHERE THE BODIES WERE AT.
# 383 A: THEN WE BACKTRACKED OUT.
# 385 A: THEN WALKED AROUND SOUTHBOUND OVER TO THE ALLEY, WALKED INTO THE GARAGE, WALKED INTO THE HOUSE, WALKED OUT AND VIEWED THE BODIES, WALKED DOWN THE DRIVEWAY -- THE SIDEWALK AREA, THE WALKWAY AREA OUT TO THE BACK, WALKED BACK INTO THE HOUSE AND TOOK A CURSORY LOOK THROUGH THE HOUSE.
# 386 Q: WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN THIS SIDEWALK AREA -- AND MISS CLARK ASKED YOU, MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES ABOUT YOU BEING CAREFUL; IS THAT CORRECT, WHERE YOU STEPPED?
# 388 Q: AS AN EXPERIENCED HOMICIDE DETECTIVE YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE TIMES WHERE YOU CANNOT ALWAYS SEE FOOTPRINTS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 389 A: YOU MAY NOT SEE ALL THE FOOTPRINTS, YES.
# 390 Q: YOU KNOW THAT FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 392 Q: SO IF YOU DIDN'T SEE IT, SOMETIMES YOU STEP IN THINGS WHERE YOU CAN'T SEE IT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 393 A: THAT WOULD BE POSSIBLE.
# 394 Q: HOW MANY -- AS YOU WERE TAKING THESE VARIOUS AND SUNDRY TRIPS, HOW MANY OFFICERS WERE THERE WALKING WITH YOU AND RISKE AS YOU WALKED ON THIS PATHWAY YOU JUST DESCRIBED? WAS IT YOU AND FUHRMAN AND RISKE AND WHO ELSE?
# 395 A: I BELIEVE THAT WAS ALL THERE WAS.
# 396 Q: THREE OF YOU; IS THAT RIGHT?
# 398 Q: THEN LATER, WHEN LANGE AND VANNATTER CAME, AND YOU SHOWED THEM, THEY WALKED THOSE SAME ROUTES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
# 400 Q: DID LIEUTENANT ROGERS ALSO WALK AND LOOK THIS ROUTE OVER ALSO?
# 401 A: I DON'T KNOW IF LIEUTENANT ROGERS WALKED AND LOOKED THROUGH IT OR NOT.
# 402 Q: HE WAS CERTAINLY THERE AT ONE POINT WHEN YOU WENT OVER TO ROCKINGHAM, WASN'T HE?
# 404 Q: SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE DID?
# 405 A: I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE DID.
# 406 Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE DID YOU SEE SERGEANT COON THERE?
# 407 A: WHEN I FIRST ARRIVED, YES.
# 408 Q: AND DID HE STAY THERE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME?
# 409 A: I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG HE STAYED THERE OR WHEN HE LEFT.
# 410 Q: DID YOU SEE HIM WALK AT ALL DURING -- IN THIS WALKWAY OR -- THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE, SERGEANT COON?
# 411 A: I DID NOT SEE SERGEANT COON WALK THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE.
# 412 Q: NOW, ON YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION THERE WAS MENTION, I BELIEVE -- STRIKE THAT.
DID YOU LEARN THAT OFFICER RISKE TOUCHED MR. GOLDMAN'S THAT WAS PARTIALLY OPENED AT SOME POINT? DID YOU HEAR THAT?
# 414 Q: YOU NEVER HEARD THAT?
# 416 Q: YOU KNEW AT ONE POINT THAT OFFICER RISKE WENT AROUND TO THE NORTH OF THE PROPERTY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE? YOU KNEW ABOUT THAT; IS THAT CORRECT?
# 417 A: HE TOOK ME AROUND THERE.
# 418 Q: HE WALKED AROUND THERE, SO YOU SAW THAT?
# 420 Q: WITH REGARD TO THIS WALKWAY AREA, DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT THE WALKWAY WAS -- WAS VERY STAINED WITH BERRIES FROM A TREE THAT HAD DROPPED DOWN? DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING THAT AT ALL?
# 421 A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS.
# 422 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. IF WE COULD FIND, YOUR HONOR, I WANT TO TRY AND GET A COUPLE OF PICTURES WHICH I THINK DEMONSTRATE THAT. THERE ARE SO MANY PHOTOGRAPHS. LET'S SEE.
# 424 MR. COCHRAN: LET'S TRY 45-B, C, D, E IF WE CAN.
# 425 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 426 MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY PHOTOGRAPHS, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO CUT THE FEED BECAUSE WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL WE ACTUALLY SEE. WE ARE LOOKING FOR PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT AND I WANT TO SHOW THE WITNESS.
# 427 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 428 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 45-A.
# 429 MR. COCHRAN: YOU CAN MOVE ON. NOT THAT ONE.
# 430 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 45-B, 45-C.
# 431 MR. COCHRAN: YOU CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE.
# 432 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 45-D.
# 434 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 45-E.
# 435 MR. COCHRAN: JUST STOP THERE. STOP AT THAT ONE. WHAT NUMBER IS THAT, JOHN?
# 436 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THAT IS 45-E.
# 438 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: I'M SORRY, 45-D.
# 439 MR. COCHRAN: 45-D, YOUR HONOR.
# 440 Q: CAN YOU SEE IT ON THE MONITOR, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
# 442 Q: I THINK YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH REGARDING SOME ALLEGED BLOODY FOOTPRINT OR WHATEVER. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
# 444 Q: DO YOU SEE THOSE SHOES THERE? CAN YOU SEE THOSE -- A PAIR OF WHITE SHOES OR LIGHT SHOES AND ALSO A PAIR OF DARK SHOES UP THERE?
# 446 Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO THOSE SHOES BELONG TO?
# 448 Q: WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT YOU REMEMBER THE PHOTOGRAPHER ROKAHR THAT MORNING WAS WEARING SOME LIGHT-COLORED SHOES LIKE THOSE SHOES THERE AN IN THE BOTTOM PHOTOGRAPH?
# 449 A: I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT KIND OF SHOES MR. ROKAHR WAS WEARING.
# 450 Q: YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF THAT?
# 452 Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DON'T RECALL WHOSE SHOES THOSE ARE?
# 454 Q: THE SHOES AT THE TOP, YOU CAN'T TELL US WHOSE SHOES THOSE ARE?
# 458 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THESE -- THESE FOOTPRINTS OR SHOEPRINTS YOU WERE ASKED ABOUT, DO YOU RECALL THAT AS YOU LOOKED DOWN THIS PARTICULAR ROUTE WHERE THESE SHOEPRINTS WERE SUPPOSEDLY GOING TOWARD THE ALLEYWAY, THAT THERE CAME A TIME THAT YOU SAW TWO SHOEPRINTS THAT WERE FACING PARALLEL TOWARD THE HOUSE -- PERPENDICULAR TO THE HOUSE? DO YOU REMEMBER TWO SHOEPRINTS THAT WENT RIGHT TOWARD THE HOUSE?
# 460 Q: YOU DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THOSE?
# 462 Q: ANYBODY EVER SHOWED YOU THOSE?
# 464 Q: AND YESTERDAY, WHEN MISS CLARK WAS ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BLOOD DROPS -- MAY I HAVE JUST A SECOND, YOUR HONOR?
# 465 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 466 MR. COCHRAN: I AM TRYING TO SAVE SOME TIME, YOUR HONOR, AND ASKING HER FOR A PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH.
# 467 MS. CLARK: I WILL LOOK.
# 468 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 469 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 470 MR. COCHRAN: WHICH NUMBER IS THIS, JOHN?
# 471 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THIS IS 45-F.
# 472 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET'S --
# 473 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) # 474 MR. COCHRAN: LET'S TRY 45-G.
# 475 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 45-G.
# 476 MR. COCHRAN: NO. TRY THE NEXT ONE.
# 478 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 45-H.
# 480 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 45-I.
# 481 THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO THE 48 SERIES.
# 482 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 48. 48-A.
# 483 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YES, I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THEM.
# 484 Q: NOW, DETECTIVE, IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH IT IS A LONGER VIEW, IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING -- DO YOU SEE THAT 112 UP THERE?
# 486 Q: DOES THAT PURPORT TO BE SOME KIND OF A BLOOD DROP?
# 487 A: I THINK 112 WAS A BLOOD DROP. I CAN'T SEE THAT FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH.
# 488 Q: OKAY. COULD YOU TELL US HOW FAR THE NEAREST FOOTPRINT WAS FROM THAT ALLEGED BLOOD DROP?
# 490 Q: WHILE YOU WERE OUT THERE THAT MORNING, WHAT IS YOUR BEST ESTIMATE?
# 491 A: I WOULD NOT -- I DON'T RECALL.
# 492 Q: FOUR FEET, FIVE FEET, SIX FEET?
# 493 A: I COULDN'T EVEN GUESS, SIR.
# 494 Q: YOU CAN'T EVEN GUESS?
# 495 A: I DID NO MEASUREMENTS, I DID NO CRIME SCENE EVALUATION, I DID NO CRIME SCENE SKETCH.
KEY QUOTE # 496 Q: YOU JUST SAW YOUR CURSORY LOOK, CORRECT?
# 497 A: I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE DISTANCE IS.
# 498 MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. FINE. JOHN, THE NEXT ONE.
# 499 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 48-B.
# 500 MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. MOVE ON.
# 501 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 48-C.
# 502 MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. MOVE ON.
# 503 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 48-D.
# 504 MR. COCHRAN: MOVE ON.
# 505 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 48-E.
# 506 MR. COCHRAN: MOVE ON.
# 507 MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 48-F.
# 508 MR. COCHRAN: RIGHT.
# 509 Q: NOW, YOU SEE 48-F THERE?
# 511 Q: CAN YOU SEE THAT? I WANT YOU TO LOOK -- FIRST OF ALL, CAN YOU SEE -- CAN YOU STEP OUT AND CAN YOU SEE UP ON THIS BANISTER, THIS WHITE BANISTER?
# 513 Q: YOU SEE WHAT APPEARS TO BE SOME LITTLE BERRIES OR WHATEVER THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM THE TREES ABOVE? CAN YOU SEE THAT?
# 514 A: I RECALL THEM AS BEING SOME TYPE OF BERRY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YES.
# 515 Q: REDDISH IN COLOR?
# 518 A: PURPLE, REDDISH, BROWNISH.
# 521 Q: ALL RIGHT. SOME KIND OF COLORED BERRY. ALL RIGHT. NOW, I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THOSE STAIRS THERE AS DEPICTED IN 48-F. DO YOU SEE HOW THE STAIRWAYS ARE STAINED? DO YOU SEE ALSO THAT THERE IS APPARENTLY SOME BERRY RESIDUE ON THOSE PARTICULAR STAIRS? DO YOU SEE THAT?
# 522 MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR.
# 523 MR. COCHRAN: THE PICTURE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. I AM ASKING --
# 524 THE COURT: YOU ARE TESTIFYING THAT IT IS BERRY RESIDUE. WE DON'T KNOW THAT.
# 525 MR. COCHRAN: LET ME REPHRASE IT IN ANOTHER WAY. PERHAPS BERRY RESIDUE IS A BAD CHOICE OF WORDS.
# 526 Q: WHAT IS THAT ON THOSE STEPS THAT LOOKS LIKE THOSE BERRIES COMING FROM THOSE TREES? IS THAT -- DO YOU REMEMBER -- I WILL -- I'M GOING TO STRIKE THAT QUESTION.
# 527 THE COURT: WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU?
# 528 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS: I'M NOT A HORTICULTURIST. I HAVE NO IDEA.
KEY QUOTE # 529 Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I KNOW. I KNOW. I WANT TO MAKE THAT AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE. LOOK AT THAT PHOTOGRAPH. WHAT DO YOU SEE IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH ON THOSE STEPS?
# 530 A: I SEE DEBRIS ON THOSE STEPS.
# 531 Q: WHAT KIND OF DEBRIS?
# 532 A: BROWNISH-RED PURPLEISH BERRIES.
# 533 Q: THEY ARE GOING UP THE STAIRS AND THOSE ARE THE STEPS GOING UP THE BACK WAY?
# 534 THE COURT: THERE IS A LOT OF IT.
# 535 MR. COCHRAN: A LOT OF IT?
# 536 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS: YES, SIR.
# 537 MR. COCHRAN: WOULD THIS BE A GOOD TIME?
# 538 THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A RECESS SO WE CAN SWITCH COURT REPORTERS AT THIS TIME. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, FORMS ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE. DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO SPEAK WITH YOU ABOUT THE CASE. DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S TAKE THEM UPSTAIRS. DEPUTY MAGNERA: YES, YOUR HONOR.
# 539 THE COURT: COUNSEL, WE WILL RESUME AT 25 MINUTES AFTER 3:00. DETECTIVE, YOU MAY STEP DOWN.
# 540 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS: THANK YOU, SIR.