📄 Scene walk logistics and preparation — Sunday, February 12, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\12\SCENE-WALK-LOGISTICS-AND-PREPA.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 17 of 167

Scene walk logistics and preparation

Date: Sunday, February 12, 1995 • Utterances: 77
Judge Ito presides over a pre-scene-walk logistics session on a Sunday, working through the ground rules for the jury's view of both the Bundy crime scene and Simpson's Rockingham estate. Key issues resolved include OJ's waiver of his right to be present at Bundy, how long jurors can linger in the trophy room, whether sympathy-inducing photos and a Simpson statue at Rockingham need to be covered, and whether the prosecution can place markers or photos at Bundy showing where the victims' bodies were found. Ito ultimately denies the prosecution's request for body-location markers but asks Goldberg to bring crime scene photos to the scene in case interpretation issues arise.
1 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL.

2 MR. COCHRAN:

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

3 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. LET'S GET STARTED ON THIS MATTER. FIRST OF ALL, COUNSEL, I'M GOING TO ASK BOTH SIDES FOR A STIPULATION PURSUANT TO CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE SECTION 134 INDICATING THAT THE COURT MAY, UPON STIPULATION OF THE PARTIES, CONDUCT A SESSION ON A SUNDAY. TECHNICALLY, ACCORDING TO THE CODE, SUNDAYS ARE COURT HOLIDAYS. THE COURT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN SESSION. OBVIOUSLY WE ARE IN SESSION. STIPULATION FROM THE PEOPLE?

4 MR. DARDEN:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

5 THE COURT:

STIPULATION FROM THE DEFENDANT?

6 MR. COCHRAN:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

7 THE COURT:

I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS AN OBJECTION FROM THE BROWN FAMILY REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF MR. SIMPSON ON THE PROPERTY. MR. COCHRAN, YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE?

8 MR. COCHRAN:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

9 MR. DARDEN:

CAN WE APPROACH ON THAT MATTER?

10 MR. COCHRAN:

YOUR HONOR, AT NO TIME HAS MR. SIMPSON EVER DESIRED TO GO TO OR BE AT THE BUNDY SCENE. IT'S AS PAINFUL FOR HIM AS IT IS FOR THE BROWN FAMILY. ACCORDINGLY, HE PLANS TO STAY IN THE VEHICLE AT THAT LOCATION.

11 THE COURT:

SO HE IS NOT EXERCISING HIS RIGHT OR DEMAND TO ASSERT HIS RIGHT TO SEE THE SAME VIEW AS THE JURY SEES DURING THE COURSE OF THAT WALK THROUGH?

12 MR. COCHRAN:

NO, YOUR HONOR. HE'S NOT EXERCISING HIS RIGHT IN THAT REGARD. HIS COUNSEL WILL DO THAT, HOWEVER.

13 MS. LEWIS:

YOUR HONOR, WOULD THE COURT TAKE A PERSONAL CONFIRMATION FROM MR. SIMPSON?

14 THE COURT:

YES, I WILL. MR. SIMPSON, THIS IS A COURT PROCEEDING THAT WILL BE CONDUCTED IN THE FIELD. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE PRESENT AT ANY TIME WHEN THE JURY IS RECEIVING EVIDENCE. ACTUALLY, VIEWING THE CRIME SCENE OBVIOUSLY IS RECEIPT OF EVIDENCE SINCE THEY WILL BE SEEING LOCATIONS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO THIS CASE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO WAIVE AND GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO BE PRESENT AT THE BUNDY ADDRESS WHILE THE JURY IS CONDUCTING A VIEW OF THE SCENE.

15 THE DEFENDANT:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

16 THE COURT:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, I HAD GIVEN YOU THE ITINERARY PREVIOUSLY OF OUR SCHEDULED VISIT. WE AGREED TO POST SIGNS AT THE RELEVANT LOCATIONS SO THAT THE BAILIFF HIMSELF WILL NOT BE UNDER AN OBLIGATION TO CONDUCT TOURS SO TO SPEAK, SPEAKING TOURS, AND THAT THE BAILIFF'S FUNCTION WILL BE TO MERELY MAKE SURE THAT THE SECURITY IS MAINTAINED OF EACH SCENE. ANY COMMENT AS TO THAT? AND THERE WILL BE A SIGN BOTH FRONT AND BACK, AND MY LAW CLERK, PAUL TYLER, WILL GO THROUGH WITH COUNSEL TO POST THE SIGNS WHEN WE GET THERE. ALL RIGHT.

17 MS. LEWIS:

YOUR HONOR, THERE IS ONE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION. THE GREEN CHAIN LINK FENCING THAT IS AROUND ROCKINGHAM, THE JURORS NEED TO BE TOLD AT SOME POINT THAT THAT WAS NOT PRESENT ON JUNE 12TH. AND IF YOU WILL RECALL, IT EXTENDS TO AROUND THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.

18 THE COURT:

WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT LATER. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE CAN HANDLE DURING THE COURSE OF THEIR CASE IN CHIEF BECAUSE THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ROCKINGHAM SCENE THE DAY OF THE INCIDENT DO NOT HAVE THAT. THEIR VIEW DOES. YOU CAN ASK THE DETECTIVES WAS THAT THERE AT THE TIME.

19 MS. LEWIS:

THE COURT --

20 THE COURT:

I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE COURT TO INSTRUCT. THAT IS THE POINT I'M MAKING.

21 MS. LEWIS:

I WASN'T GOING TO ASK THE COURT TO DO THAT. I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE BAILIFF TO BREAK THE CODE OF SILENCE FOR THAT ONE PURPOSE.

22 THE COURT:

NO, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. AND IN ANY EVENT, THAT OUTSIDE AROUND THE ROCKINGHAM PROPERTY IS REALLY INCONSEQUENTIAL BECAUSE NOBODY TALKS ABOUT ANYTHING GOING ON THE LAWN THERE.

23 MS. LEWIS:

THE ACCESS TO THE SIDE OF THE WALKWAY OF MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY HOWEVER IS GOING TO BE VIEWED AND WHICH DOES HAVE THAT RESTRICTED ACCESS SOMEWHAT.

24 THE COURT:

IT'S A NON-ISSUE AT THIS POINT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE TALK WITH THE JURORS?

25 MS. LEWIS:

MAY I HAVE A MOMENT?

26 (BRIEF PAUSE.)
27 MS. LEWIS:

THERE ARE A FEW THINGS TO RESOLVE I BELIEVE, YOUR HONOR, BASED ON MY MEETING WITH MR. DOUGLAS YESTERDAY OUT AT BOTH SCENES. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING WITH REGARD TO THE DEFENDANT'S TROPHY ROOM THAT THE COURT'S ORDER WAS THAT THE JURORS BE TAKEN THROUGH IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM THE ENTRANCE TO THE FAMILY ROOM, THEY BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN THERE, DO A 360 SO TO SPEAK AND CONTINUE ON, AND THAT WAS THE ONE PERHAPS EXCEPTION TO THE NOTION OR TO THE IDEA THAT THE JURORS ARE ALLOWED TO REMAIN IN ANY ONE LOCATION AS LONG AS THEY WANT BASICALLY. I BELIEVE MR. DOUGLAS' POSITION YESTERDAY WAS THAT HE FELT THEY COULD REMAIN AS LONG AS THEY WANTED. THAT SEEMED TO BE A COMPROMISE RULING ON THE COURT'S PART, AND I WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW STRENUOUSLY WE HAVE OBJECTED AND DID OBJECT IN CHAMBERS I BELIEVE ON FRIDAY TO HAVING THEM VIEW THE DEFENDANT'S TROPHY ROOM AT ALL BECAUSE IT'S A SHRINE TO THE DEFENDANT, IT DOES HAVE OBVIOUS POTENTIAL OF APPEALING TO SYMPATHY AND PITY FOR THE DEFENDANT, WHICH CALIFORNIA LAW SAYS THE JURORS MUST NOT DO IN EVALUATING THE EVIDENCE IN A CASE. SO IT IS OUR POSITION THAT TROPHY ROOM IS HIGHLY PREJUDICIAL TO THE PEOPLE. AND I RESPECT THE COURT'S RULING AND I'M NOT ASKING THE COURT TO RECONSIDER THAT RULING. I JUST NEED A CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE COURT'S RULING, THAT THEY ARE NOT TO LINGER IN THAT AREA.

28 THE COURT:

MR. DOUGLAS, YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE?

29 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, THE COURT HAD MADE IT CLEAR THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE TOUR, THE JURORS WILL BE ALLOWED TO WALK AND TO VIEW FOR AS LONG AS THEY FEEL APPROPRIATE. I DID NOT DISCERN --

30 THE COURT:

WITHIN REASON.

31 MR. DOUGLAS:

CORRECT. I DID NOT DISCERN ANY DISTINCTION WITH EITHER LOCATION. AND MISS LEWIS SEEMS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS IN FACT AN UNSPOKEN UNDERSTANDING THAT JURORS SHOULD BE PUSHED THROUGH THE TROPHY ROOM, WHICH I DID NOT GATHER FROM OUR CONVERSATION IN CHAMBERS ON FRIDAY. CERTAINLY, THEY CANNOT LINGER INORDINATELY, BUT I DID NOT THINK THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE ANY SPECIFIC DIRECTION THAT THEY BE HURRIED THROUGH THAT PORTION OF THE TOUR.

32 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. IT WAS THE COURT'S INTENTION IN MAKING THAT RULING THAT THE JURORS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO DIRECTLY INTO THE TROPHY ROOM. IT WAS MY INTENTION THAT THEY WALK FROM THE KITCHEN DOOR IN A STRAIGHT LINE TO THE FRENCH DOOR WHICH LEADS OUT TO THE POOL AREA SO THAT THEY COULD THEN GO TO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM AND SEE ITS RELATIONSHIP TO ARNELLE SIMPSON'S ROOM. I AM NOT GOING TO PLACE A TIME LIMIT OR REQUIRE THEM TO BE HURRIED ALONG. HOWEVER, THERE'S ONLY THREE RELEVANT THINGS IN THAT ROOM, THE FAMILY ROOM; THE T.V. SETUP, THE BAR SETUP AND THE PROXIMITY TO THE TROPHY ROOM. THEY ARE ENTITLED TO SEE THE TROPHY ROOM SINCE MR. SHIPP DID TESTIFY AS TO THE MAGNETISM OF THAT PARTICULAR ROOM. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO GO DOWN INTO IT. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO TAKE A TOUR OF IT. THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT WILL ALLOW THEM TO STAY THERE A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME. THEY WILL NOT BE FORCED TO MARCH THROUGH. THEY WILL BE ALLOWED TO STOP, DO A 360, LOOK AND SEE WHAT'S THERE. BUT THE BAILIFFS WILL BE UNDER DIRECTIONS FROM THE COURT TO MOVE THEM ALONG AT A REASONABLE PACE AT ALL LOCATIONS, NOT JUST THIS LOCATION.

33 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, IF I MAY. MR. SIMPSON HAS JUST REMINDED ME THAT THERE WAS SOME SUGGESTION IN PERHAPS SOME OF THE COMMENTS OF COUNSEL, PROSECUTION COUNSEL, THAT THE ONLY WAY INTO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM THE OUTSIDE.

34 THE COURT:

WE CAN HANDLE THAT BY A DIAGRAM.

35 MR. DOUGLAS:

VERY WELL. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

36 MS. LEWIS:

YOUR HONOR, I'M SORRY. I KNOW YOU REALLY WANT TO GET STARTED. THERE ARE A FEW OTHER ISSUES TO RESOLVE, SOME OF THEM RATHER MINOR. EXCUSE ME. AT THE BUNDY LOCATION, THE FIRST BEDROOM UPSTAIRS OF THE CHILDREN'S ROOMS IS JUSTIN'S, AND WE HAD THOUGHT IT WAS REVERSE. THAT LAST ONE IS SIDNEY'S. IN ADDITION, YOUR HONOR, THERE ARE, AS THE COURT I'M SURE NOTED, THROUGHOUT ROCKINGHAM PHOTOGRAPHS NOW, WHICH NOW APPEAR THERE OF SIDNEY AND JUSTIN THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE INCLUDING IN THE MASTER BEDROOM. THERE'S ALSO A LARGE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE DEFENDANT AND PAULA BARBIERI IN ONE OF THE FORAYS. WE HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY OBJECTED TO THAT, AND I'M GOING TO JUST SUBMIT THAT TO THE COURT'S DISCRETION. I BELIEVE IT'S HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE TO HAVE THESE ITEMS, WHICH AGAIN, WOULD ATTRACT SYMPATHY FOR THE DEFENDANT AND IMPLIEDLY GIVE IMPLIED TESTIMONY IN REGARD TO THAT. OF EVEN GREATER CONCERN TO ME, HOWEVER, IS THAT WITHIN THE GARAGE OF THAT LOCATION IS ALMOST A LIFE-SIZE STATUTE OF MR. SIMPSON IN APPARENT FOOTBALL ATTIRE, WHICH AS OF YESTERDAY WAS PLACED RIGHT IN THE LINE OF THE JURORS TO THE GARAGE DOOR.

37 THE COURT:

WE CAN TOSS A SHEET OVER THAT. THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. THAT'S NOT RELEVANT TO WHY WE'RE GOING IN THE GARAGE.

38 MS. LEWIS:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. ON THE COURT'S ITINERARY, I THOUGHT THE END OF OUR DISCUSSION IN CHAMBERS ON FRIDAY, WE DISCUSSED THAT THERE WOULD BE A SIGN SAYING ICE CREAM CUP.

39 THE COURT:

THAT'S CORRECT. SAYS BANISTER.

40 MS. LEWIS:

OKAY. THANK YOU. AND FINALLY, YOUR HONOR, THERE ARE --

41 MR. COCHRAN:

BANISTER WHERE THE ACTUAL CUP WAS FOUND?

42 THE COURT:

NO. IT SAYS BANISTER.

43 MS. LEWIS:

I BELIEVE MISS DOMINIQUE DUNN IS PRESENT IN COURT.

44 THE COURT:

NO. MISS DOMINIQUE BROWN.

45 MS. LEWIS:

BROWN. I'M SORRY. MR. DUNN I THINK IS ALSO HERE.

46 THE COURT:

HE IS, SEATED NEXT TO HER.

47 MS. LEWIS:

PERHAPS MY CONFUSION. MISS BROWN WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPANY THE D.A. TEAM OUT TO THE SCENE. AND I KNOW THE COURT HAD BEEN CIRCUMSPECT IN THE PEOPLE THAT IT ALLOWED TO GO IN THE MOTORCADE ITSELF. BEFORE THE COURT RULES ON THAT, THERE'S AN ISSUE CERTAINLY OF GREATER INTEREST TO THE PRESS, AND THAT IS THAT THE BROWN FAMILY DOES NOT WANT THE PRESS TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE BUNDY PROPERTY.

48 THE COURT:

NO. I'VE INDICATED TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, HAVING RECEIVED OBJECTIONS FROM BOTH MR. SIMPSON AND FROM THE BROWN FAMILY TO HAVING THE PRESS IN THEIR RESIDENCE THAT THEY WOULD BE KEPT FROM THE PROPERTY.

49 MS. LEWIS:

THANK YOU. IS THE COURT WILLING TO LEAVE IT TO THE D.A.'S DISCRETION OR DOES THE COURT WANT TO MAKE AN ORDER WITH REGARD TO DOMINIQUE BROWN ACCOMPANYING THE PROSECUTION TO THE SCENE?

50 THE COURT:

LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ANY COMMENT BY THE DEFENSE. I'LL GET TO YOU, MISS FORD. MR. COCHRAN.

51 MR. COCHRAN:

I THINK OUR POSITION IS, THIS IS A MATTER -- THIS IS A COURT SESSION AND I THINK THAT -- AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANYONE -- ANY FAMILY MEMBER TO ACCOMPANY US ON OUR SIDE. I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE. I THINK MR. SIMPSON HAS NO DESIRE TO GO INTO THE BUNDY LOCATION. I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP THE FAMILIES KEPT OUT OF IT AND THAT WE SHOULD JUST PROCEED. I THINK WE WANT TO BE SENSITIVE ABOUT THAT, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY REASON FOR THAT. I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE.

52 THE COURT:

I THINK THE BROWN FAMILY THOUGH IS ENTITLED TO HAVE A FAMILY REPRESENTATIVE AT THE BUNDY ADDRESS, PERHAPS NOT THE ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS. SINCE IT IS THEIR PROPERTY, THEY ARE GIVING US THE RIGHT TO ENTER AND VIEW WITH THE JURY, I THINK THEY'RE ENTITLED TO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE PRESENT. AND IF THAT PERSON IS DOMINIQUE BROWN, I THINK SHE'S ENTITLED TO BE THERE.

53 MR. COCHRAN:

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. I THINK MISS LEWIS SAID SOMETHING ABOUT ACCOMPANYING THE A TEAM OR WHATEVER, AND I THINK -- WHATEVER THAT MEANS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE A TEAM IS.

54 MS. LEWIS:

I DIDN'T SAY THAT. D.A. TEAM.

55 MR. COCHRAN:

I AM SORRY. D.A. TEAM. I THOUGHT SHE SAID A TEAM.

56 THE COURT:

WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF LOGISTICS HOWEVER IN THAT IT WILL BE VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR HER, DOMINIQUE BROWN, TO GET INTO AND GET OUT OF OUR CONTAINMENT BECAUSE THE OFFICERS WILL NOT KNOW WHO SHE IS AND WILL NOT KNOW SHE'S AUTHORIZED TO COME INTO THE -- WITHIN THE CONTAINMENT AREA. SO I'M GOING TO DIRECT THAT SHE BE ALLOWED TO ACCOMPANY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS TO THE BUNDY SCENE IN THEIR SEPARATE VAN. HOWEVER, SHE IS TO STAY ON THE VAN WHEN WE GET TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION.

57 MR. COCHRAN:

THAT'S FINE.

58 THE COURT:

OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE?

59 MR. COCHRAN:

NO, YOUR HONOR.

60 THE COURT:

I HAVE A MOTION HERE FROM --

61 MS. LEWIS:

SORRY, YOUR HONOR. CAN WE HAVE JUST A MOMENT?

62 (BRIEF PAUSE.)
63 MS. LEWIS:

YOUR HONOR, I AM SORRY. ONE MORE THING, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE SENT A LETTER TO THE COURT I THINK IT WAS ON FRIDAY AUTHORED BY MR. HANK GOLDBERG WITH REGARD TO ALLOWING THE PROSECUTION TO PLACE PHOTOGRAPHS AT THE CRIME SCENE, PARTICULARLY THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE TO ENABLE THE JURY TO MAKE A COMPARISON THEN AND THERE OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW THINGS APPEARED IN THE PHOTOS AND HOW THEY APPEARED AT THE CRIME SCENE. THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE, AS I'M SURE WAS EVIDENT TO THE COURT WHEN WE WERE OUT THERE, THAT CRIME SCENE, ESPECIALLY THE LITTLE SMALL LOCATION WHERE THE MURDERS THEMSELVES TOOK PLACE, IS MUCH SMALLER THAN IT APPEARS IN THE PHOTOGRAPH; AND FOR THE JURORS TO BE ABLE TO ADEQUATELY MAKE THAT DETERMINATION, IT REALLY IS IMPERATIVE THEY HAVE SOME GUIDANCE WITH REGARD TO THAT AREA. NOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LONG AND VIGOROUSLY IN CHAMBERS AND I WANT TO SUPPLY THE COURT WITH AN ALTERNATIVE PROPOSAL AT THIS TIME. AND THAT IS THAT WE AT LEAST HAVE SIGNS PLACED WHERE THE VICTIMS' BODIES WERE, IF THE COURT IS INCLINED TO DISALLOW PHOTOGRAPHS THEMSELVES, WHICH WE FEEL ARE CRITICAL. BUT AT LEAST TO ALLOW THE JURORS TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT INDEED IS WHERE THE MURDERS TOOK PLACE. OTHERWISE, FRANKLY, YOUR HONOR, THEY DON'T HAVE INFORMATION BESIDES THE PHOTOGRAPHS. BUT TO PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE CRIME SCENE IS NOT ALL THAT EASY AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LOCATION WHERE RON GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS DISCOVERED, IT'S NOT ALL THAT CLEAR WHERE THAT IS. AND IN FACT, IF I MAY TAKE THE LIBERTY, WHEN THE COURT FIRST ARRIVED AT THE SCENE, THE COURT ASKED FOR CONFIRMATION, IF THAT WAS INDEED WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND. SO THAT'S A NATURAL -- THE NATURAL FIRST QUESTION OF ANY OF THESE JURORS TO ASK. AND THERE CAN BE NO PREJUDICIAL EFFECT WHATSOEVER TO HAVE SIMPLY THE NAME OF THE PERSON ON A PIECE OF PAPER TO INDICATE WHERE IT WAS THAT THEY WERE FOUND AND IT CAN ONLY HELP IN THE ASCERTAINMENT OF TRUTH AS TO THE EXACT CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CASE.

64 THE COURT:

MR. COCHRAN.

65 MR. COCHRAN:

ONCE AGAIN, YOUR HONOR, YOU'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT, YOU'VE SPENT TIME, BEEN UP TO THE SCENE. THE PEOPLE NEVER STOP. YOU LET THIS BE ARGUED AND HERE THEY'RE STILL WHINING AND MOANING ASKING AGAIN. THE IDEA AS I UNDERSTOOD IT WAS TO MAKE THE SCENE AS PRISTINE AS POSSIBLE. THESE JURORS ARE VERY INTELLIGENT AS YOU MENTIONED WITH THE DIAGRAM ABOUT THERE'S TWO WAYS TO GET TO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM. THERE WILL BE A LOT OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE THAT WILL COME ALONG. WE WILL HAVE DIAGRAMS LATER. WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER JURY VIEW AT SOME POINT.

66 THE COURT:

MAYBE.

67 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF TROUBLE AND YOU MAY BE HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS.

68 THE COURT:

THIRD, FOURTH AND FIFTH THOUGHTS.

KEY QUOTE
69 MR. COCHRAN:

WELL, PERHAPS SO, YOUR HONOR. BUT AT ANY RATE, AS YOU MADE THE SCENE, YOU'VE BEEN FAIR TO BOTH SIDES THROUGHOUT THIS ITEM. THE RULES ARE ALREADY SET. CARL DOUGLAS HAS EXPLAINED THE RULES TO US. WE ALL UNDERSTOOD AND ACCEPTED THEM. AT THIS POINT, WE ARE READY TO GO ON THIS LONG SAGA. THEY ALWAYS WANT TO DELAY EVERYTHING. I THINK I WOULD JUST ASK YOU TO KEEP THE RULING THE WAY IT IS AND MOVE ON. WE ARE READY TO PROCEED. THERE'S NO REASON TO CHANGE --

70 MS. LEWIS:

MAY I MAKE ONE FURTHER OBSERVATION SINCE IT WAS OUR MOTION SO TO SPEAK?

71 THE COURT:

YOUR OBSERVATION? SURE.

72 MS. LEWIS:

THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE IS NOT ONLY PRISTINE, IT'S STERILE. BECAUSE BEING A VACANT HOUSE, THE INTERIOR HAVING BEEN APPARENTLY REPAINTED AND SO FORTH BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS ON THE MARKET, IT IS ABSOLUTELY STERILE. AND WE HAVE THAT STERILE LOCATION IN CONTRAST TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME AT ROCKINGHAM WHICH HAS THESE VARIOUS SYMPATHY-INDUCING PHOTOGRAPHS THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE AS WELL AS OF COURSE THE TROPHY ROOM WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT. SO THIS ALREADY STERILE AND PRISTINE CRIME SCENE CERTAINLY WOULD NOT BE MADE ANY LESS SO BY HAVING SIMPLY THE NAMES OF THE VICTIMS AND LOCATIONS WHERE THEY WERE FOUND.

KEY QUOTE
73 THE COURT:

ISN'T IT EQUALLY AS STUNNING FOR THE JURY TO SEE A COMPLETELY VACANT HOME KNOWING THAT THAT HAD ONCE BEEN THE HOME OF A VIBRANT PERSON AND CHILDREN? I MEAN ISN'T THAT STUNNING AS WELL?

74 MS. LEWIS:

WELL, NOT UNLESS YOUR HONOR PUTS NICOLE'S NAME SOMEWHERE IN THE HOUSE AND CHILDREN. THAT HAS A MUCH MORE SUBTLE EFFECT ON A PERSON THAN TO SEE A FULLY, YOU KNOW, EMBELLISHED HOUSE WITH ALL THE PHOTOGRAPHS. THAT'S MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE FOR THAT PURPOSE, FOR GENERATING SYMPATHY THAN THE VACANT BUNDY HOUSE IS.

75 THE COURT:

THE COURT'S PURPOSE IN GOING HERE IS TO ALLOW THE JURORS TO SEE THE SCENE AS CLOSE TO REALITY AS IS POSSIBLE WITHOUT ANY INTERPRETATION PUT ON IT BY EITHER PARTY, AND I WILL TRUST THE EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE OF TRIAL COUNSEL ON BOTH SIDES TO EXPLAIN TO THE JURY DURING THEIR PRESENTATION OF THE CASE TO MAKE WHATEVER IT IS THEY FEEL NEEDS TO BE MADE CLEAR CLEARER. HOWEVER, I WOULD ASK THAT, MR. GOLDBERG, IF YOU WOULD -- DO YOU HAVE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, DISCUSSED IN CHAMBERS?

KEY QUOTE
76 MR. GOLDBERG:

I HAVE SOME OF THEM DONE RIGHT NOW.

77 THE COURT:

WHY DON'T YOU BRING THEM WITH US TO THE SCENE IN CASE THERE'S AN INTERPRETATION ISSUE THAT ARISES WHILE WE ARE AT THE SCENE. ALL RIGHT. I HAVE A MOTION FROM FRANCIS PIZZULLI REPRESENTING ONE OF THE NEWS HELICOPTER ORGANIZATIONS. ALL RIGHT. NO APPEARANCE. THE MATTER IS OFF CALENDAR. MISS FORD, YOU HAD SOME COMMENT?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

O.J. Simpson
YES, YOUR HONOR.
Simpson personally waives his right to be present during the jury's view of the Bundy crime scene, with Cochran explaining it is 'as painful for him as it is for the Brown family.'
Johnnie Cochran
THE PEOPLE NEVER STOP. YOU LET THIS BE ARGUED AND HERE THEY'RE STILL WHINING AND MOANING ASKING AGAIN.
Cochran's unusually blunt characterization of the prosecution's continued lobbying for body markers at Bundy, showing irritation at last-minute advocacy.
Lance A. Ito
THIRD, FOURTH AND FIFTH THOUGHTS.
Ito's candid admission that the jury scene walk — a major logistical undertaking — had given him serious second thoughts, delivered with dry humor.
Lance A. Ito
THE COURT'S PURPOSE IN GOING HERE IS TO ALLOW THE JURORS TO SEE THE SCENE AS CLOSE TO REALITY AS IS POSSIBLE WITHOUT ANY INTERPRETATION PUT ON IT BY EITHER PARTY.
Clear statement of the court's governing principle for the scene walk, used to deny both prosecution's request for markers and to address sympathy concerns about Rockingham.
Cheri Lewis
THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE IS NOT ONLY PRISTINE, IT'S STERILE. BECAUSE BEING A VACANT HOUSE, THE INTERIOR HAVING BEEN APPARENTLY REPAINTED AND SO FORTH BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS ON THE MARKET.
Lewis argues the Bundy house's vacancy and repainting — the property was listed for sale — created an unfair asymmetry versus the emotionally rich Rockingham home.

Evidence (6)

Informal
Crime scene photographs of Bundy, particularly showing the small area where the murders took place and Ron Goldman's body location
Prosecution requests permission to bring to scene for juror comparison; Ito allows Goldberg to bring them in case interpretation issues arise
Informal
Photographs of Sidney and Justin Simpson and a large photograph of OJ Simpson and Paula Barbieri throughout Rockingham
Lewis flags as sympathy-inducing; submitted to court's discretion
Informal
Near-life-size statue of Simpson in football attire in the Rockingham garage
Ito orders a sheet thrown over it as irrelevant to the garage visit
Informal
Green chain-link fencing around Rockingham not present on June 12th
Lewis raises as a juror confusion issue; Ito says prosecution can address it through detective testimony during case-in-chief
Informal
Ice cream cup / banister sign at Rockingham
Confirmed in itinerary signage; Cochran asks for clarification on exact location
Informal
OJ Simpson's trophy room at Rockingham
Disputed; Ito rules jurors may stop and do a 360-degree look but may not enter or tour; bailiffs to move them along at reasonable pace

Notable Exchanges (4)

Cheri LewisCarl DouglasLance A. Ito
Dispute over how long jurors can linger in the trophy room. Lewis argues the court had implicitly ordered them 'pushed through'; Douglas says he heard no such distinction. Ito clarifies: jurors may stop and look but not descend into or tour the room.
strategic
Cheri LewisJohnnie CochranLance A. Ito
Prosecution pushes to place victim-body-location markers (or photographs) at Bundy; Cochran calls it 'whining and moaning' and urges the court to keep its ruling; Ito denies the request but asks Goldberg to bring photos to the scene as a contingency.
tense
Lance A. ItoCheri Lewis
Ito asks whether the sight of a completely vacant home — knowing it 'once been the home of a vibrant person and children' — is not itself emotionally powerful, pushing back on Lewis's framing of Bundy as disadvantageously sterile.
revealing
Lance A. ItoJohnnie Cochran
When Cochran jokes that the judge 'may be having second thoughts' about the scene walk, Ito deadpans 'Third, fourth and fifth thoughts' — the only levity in an otherwise dense logistics session.
light

Light Moments (3)

Johnnie Cochran
Cochran mishears 'D.A. team' as 'A team' when Lewis describes Dominique Brown accompanying prosecutors.
Lance A. Ito
Ito responds to Cochran's joke about 'second thoughts' with 'Third, fourth and fifth thoughts.'
Lance A. Ito
Ito's solution to the life-size Simpson football statue blocking the garage path: 'We can toss a sheet over that. That's not a problem.'

Witness Demeanor

(BRIEF PAUSE.) — twice, while Lewis confers with co-counsel between agenda items

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 4769 • 77 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 FEB 12, 1995 📄 Scene walk logistics and prepa
FEB 12, 1995 KRT DvH TD