Direct examination of Ron Shipp (morning, part 4)

📄 Direct examination of Ron Shipp (morning, part 4) — Wednesday, February 1, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\1\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RON-SHIP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 10 of 167

◀ Sidebar: photograph evidence foundation Recess ▶

Witness: Ron Shipp
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, February 1, 1995 • Utterances: 166

Ronald Shipp testifies about showing OJ Simpson a batterer's profile and discussing the January 1, 1989 domestic violence incident. Simpson minimized the incident as self-defense and an 'isolated incident,' admitted he might be 'pathologically jealous,' and was primarily worried about losing his Hertz endorsement — then asked Shipp to get Nicole to sign off the police report and not press charges. Shipp, an LAPD officer at the time, took a non-prosecution document to Nicole (she refused to sign it) and also contacted the supervising detective on the case.

# 1

THE COURT: GO BACK. THANK YOU. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 2 THE COURT:

THANK YOU, MADAM REPORTER. MR. DARDEN.

# 3 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT YOU SAW, SIR, OF NICOLE BROWN'S LEFT ARM AND THIGH, DID YOU NOTE ANY INJURY ON THOSE AREAS OF HER BODY?

# 4 A:

YES, I DID.

# 5 Q:

WHAT DID YOU SEE?

# 6 A:

THEY WERE LIKE BRUISES. BRUISES, YOU KNOW, DARKISH KIND OF BLUISH COLOR.

# 7 Q:

WHY DID SHE SHOW YOU THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 8 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

# 9 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 10 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DO YOU KNOW WHY SHE SHOWED YOU THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 11 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, BASED ON HEARSAY.

# 12 THE COURT:

PROBABLY. SUSTAINED.

# 13 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU WERE HAVING A DISCUSSION, THOUGH, ABOUT THE BATTERER'S PROFILE; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 14 A:

CORRECT.

# 15 Q:

WAS IT DURING THAT DISCUSSION THAT SHE SHOWED YOU THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 16 A:

YES, IT WAS.

# 17 Q:

AND DURING YOUR DISCUSSION OF THE BATTERER'S PROFILE DID YOU AND NICOLE BROWN AGREE ON A SPECIFIC COURSE OF ACTION?

# 18 A:

UMM, YES, WE DID. THAT IS WHEN --

# 19 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION. HE HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

# 20 THE COURT:

CORRECT. NEXT QUESTION.

# 21 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU INTEND TO PURSUE THE MATTER FURTHER?

# 22 A:

YES, I DID.

# 23 Q:

WHAT DID YOU TELL NICOLE BROWN YOU WERE GOING TO DO?

# 24 A:

THAT I WOULD MEET WITH O.J.

# 25 Q:

FOR WHAT REASON?

# 26 A:

TO DISCUSS THE BATTERER'S PROFILES.

# 27 Q:

AND DID YOU MEET WITH THE DEFENDANT?

# 28 A:

YES, I DID.

# 29 Q:

DID YOU SHOW HIM THE BATTERER'S PROFILE?

# 30 A:

YES, I DID.

# 31 Q:

AND THAT PROFILE DOES LIST CERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS OF A BATTERER; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 32 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 33 Q:

NOW, DURING THAT DISCUSSION DID YOU DISCUSS WITH HIM THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 1, 1989?

# 34 A:

YES, I DID.

# 35 Q:

RELATE TO US THE CONTENT OF THAT CONVERSATION, PLEASE.

# 36 A:

UMM, O.J. HAD SAID THAT THEY HAD GONE OUT THAT NIGHT, HE AND NICOLE, MARCUS AND KATHY, AND THEY HAD HAD A PRETTY GOOD TIME, THAT THEY HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK, THEY WERE PARTYING TOO MUCH, AND WHEN THEY GOT BACK, THEY GOT IN AN ARGUMENT.

# 37 Q:

DID HE SAY WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT?

# 38 A:

YEAH. I MEAN, HE SAID THAT THEY HAD BEEN KIND OF INTIMATE AND THEN THAT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT THEY STARTED ARGUING FOR THE MOST PART.

# 39 Q:

WHAT DO YOU MEAN "THEY WERE KIND OF INTIMATE AND IN THE MIDDLE OF IT THEY STARTED ARGUING"?

# 40 A:

WELL, THEY WERE --

# 41 Q:

TELL US WHAT --

# 42 A:

FROM WHAT HE TOLD ME, THEY WERE MAKING LOVE AND I GUESS NICOLE HAD WANTED TO STOP, FOR WHATEVER REASONS, AND THEY BEGAN TO ARGUE.

# 43 Q:

DID HE TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 44 A:

I BELIEVE AT THE TIME HE TOLD ME THAT NICOLE WAS THE AGGRESSOR AND CAME AFTER HIM AND THAT HE WAS ACTING IN SELF-DEFENSE.

# 45 Q:

WHAT DID HE SAY WHAT HE DID TO NICOLE IN SELF-DEFENSE?

# 46 A:

HE HAD TOLD ME WHAT HE HAD -- AT THE TIME THAT HE HAD -- WAS DEFENDING HIMSELF AND THEN PUSHED HER AWAY AND HE DIDN'T REALLY HIT HER.

# 47 Q:

HE SAID THAT ALL HE DID WAS PUSH HER AWAY?

# 48 A:

AT THE TIME.

# 49 Q:

DID HE SAY WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

# 50 A:

UMM, I THINK HE SAID, YOU KNOW, SHE GOT HYSTERICAL AND CALLED THE POLICE ON HIM.

# 51 Q:

DID YOU ASK THE DEFENDANT IF HE BEAT HER UP?

# 52 A:

NO, I DIDN'T. NOT AT THAT TIME I DIDN'T.

# 53 Q:

OKAY. CONTINUE ON THEN WITH YOUR CONVERSATION YOU WERE HAVING WITH THE DEFENDANT REGARDING THE BATTERER'S PROFILE.

# 54 A:

OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED THEN IS WE WERE TALKING, AND AFTER HE EXPLAINED TO ME WHAT HAPPENED, THEN I TOLD HIM WHAT NICOLE SAID HAD HAPPENED, AND I TOLD HIM NICOLE HAD ADVISED ME THAT HE HAD HIT HER AND THAT AFTER LOOKING AT THE PROFILE SHE FELT THAT THEY ALL FIT HIM TO THE "T".

# 55 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 56 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED. HOLD ON. THE JURY IS TO DISREGARD ANY COMMENTS BY THE WITNESS AS TO WHAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON SAID. MR. DARDEN.

# 57 MR. DOUGLAS:

CAN THE WITNESS BE ADMONISHED, YOUR HONOR?

# 58 THE COURT:

NO.

# 59 MR. DARDEN:

WELL, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED AS TO WHAT IS IN AND WHAT IS OUT NOW. MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT?

# 60 THE COURT:

SURE.

# 61 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 62 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, DID THE COURT EXCLUDE EVERYTHING NICOLE BROWN SAID OR JUST THE END OF THE SECOND HALF OF IT?

# 63 THE COURT:

JUST THAT PORTION FROM THE PART "I TOLD HIM WHAT NICOLE SAID HAD HAPPENED AND I TOLD HIM WHAT NICOLE HAD ADVISED," THAT IS ALL STRICKEN. ANYTHING THIS WITNESS JUST SAID THAT WAS SAID BY NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON IS STRICKEN AS HEARSAY.

# 64 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 65 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WITHOUT TELLING US WHAT NICOLE TOLD YOU AND WHAT YOU TOLD THE DEFENDANT, WHAT WAS THE DEFENDANT'S REACTION?

# 66 A:

AT THE TIME, AFTER WE WENT OVER ALL THE PROFILES, HE DENIED THAT ANY OF THOSE WERE HIM EXCEPT FOR MAYBE ONE.

# 67 Q:

AND WHICH ONE WAS THAT?

# 68 A:

THE JEALOUS. HE SAID "MAYBE I MIGHT BE A LITTLE JEALOUS" AND THAT WAS IT.

# 69 Q:

READ TO US EXACTLY WHAT THE PROFILE SAYS ABOUT JEALOUS.

# 70 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. SAME OBJECTION AS BEFORE.

# 71 THE COURT:

LET ME SEE THAT.

# 72 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 73 THE COURT:

THANK YOU.

# 74 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 75 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN. AND DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THIS, COUNSEL?

# 76 MR. COCHRAN:

NO, WE DON'T HAVE A COPY OF THAT, YOUR HONOR.

# 77 MR. DOUGLAS:

WE DON'T HAVE A COPY.

# 78 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, THAT WAS TURNED OVER IN DISCOVERY TO THE DEFENSE.

# 79 THE COURT:

WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE A COPY HERE.

# 80 MR. COCHRAN:

WE DON'T HAVE A COPY HERE, YOUR HONOR.

# 81 (BRIEF PAUSE.)

# 82 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN, I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF YOU ASKED THE WITNESS ONE ADDITIONAL FOUNDATIONAL QUESTION REGARDING WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS ACTUALLY DISCUSSED, THE SECOND ITEM.

# 83 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU.

# 84 Q:

MR. SHIPP, SHOWING YOU PAGE 2 OF THE DOCUMENT AND DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION SPECIFICALLY TO LINES 3 AND 4, DID YOU AND THE DEFENDANT DISCUSS SPECIFICALLY THOSE TWO LINES?

# 85 A:

JUST THE PATHOLOGICALLY JEALOUS.

# 86 Q:

IS THAT WHAT THE PROFILE SAYS, "PATHOLOGICALLY JEALOUS"?

# 87 A:

YES, IT DOES.

# 88 Q:

YOU AND HE DISCUSSED THAT?

# 89 A:

THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT THE DEFENDANT SAID I MIGHT BE A LITTLE. HE JUST SAID MAYBE. HE DIDN'T REALLY SAY I AM JEALOUS. HE SAID "MAYBE A LITTLE BIT THAT ONE."

# 90 Q:

HE SAID HE MAY BE PATHOLOGICALLY JEALOUS; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 91 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 92 Q:

DID HE EXPRESS TO YOU AT ALL THAT HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT NICOLE BROWN'S PHYSICAL WELL-BEING?

# 93 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 94 Q:

WHAT DID HE SAY?

# 95 A:

WELL, YOU KNOW, HE SAID HE LOVED NICOLE AND HE WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING TO HURT HER, AND IT WAS JUST -- IT WAS JUST AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.

# 96 Q:

NOW, AT THAT POINT -- I'M SORRY, HE SAID WHAT?

# 97 A:

HE SAID IT WAS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.

KEY QUOTE

# 98 Q:

NOW, HAD YOU READ ANYTHING IN THE NEWSPAPERS UP TO THAT POINT, THAT IS, ABOUT THE JANUARY 1, '89, INCIDENT?

# 99 A:

IN THE NEWSPAPERS?

# 100 Q:

YEAH.

# 101 A:

NO. IT HADN'T BEEN MADE PUBLIC THEN.

# 102 Q:

AT SOME POINT WAS IT MADE PUBLIC?

# 103 A:

YEAH. I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS A WEEK OR TWO WEEKS. IT WASN'T UNTIL LIKE A WEEK AND A HALF LATER AFTERWARDS.

# 104 Q:

WELL, AFTER IT WAS MADE PUBLIC, DID YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH THE DEFENDANT AGAIN?

# 105 A:

NO. IT WAS -- IT WAS -- YES, I DID. I'M SORRY, I DID. I DID AFTERWARDS.

# 106 Q:

AFTER IT BECAME PUBLIC?

# 107 A:

GIVE ME ONE SECOND AND LET ME THINK ABOUT THIS ONE SECOND. NO, IT WAS BEFORE IT WAS MADE PUBLIC I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH HIM, YEAH.

# 108 Q:

OKAY. DID THAT DISCUSSION -- WAS IT IN REGARD TO PUBLICITY?

# 109 A:

YES, IT WAS.

# 110 Q:

WHAT DID THE DEFENDANT SAY ABOUT THAT?

# 111 A:

WELL, AT THE TIME HE WAS VERY UPSET BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THAT HE WAS GOING TO LOSE HERTZ AND HIS IMAGE WAS GOING TO BE TARNISHED AND, UMM, HE WAS JUST ASKING ME TO TELL NICOLE, YOU KNOW, HEY, THIS IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN, AND YOU KNOW, THAT HE LOVED HER.

KEY QUOTE

# 112 Q:

WELL, THE CITY ATTORNEY WAS CONSIDERING FILING CHARGES AT THAT TIME, CORRECT?

# 113 A:

CORRECT.

# 114 Q:

DID HE ASK YOU TO SAY ANYTHING TO NICOLE ABOUT FILING CHARGES?

# 115 A:

YES. HE HAD ASKED ME TO GET A -- TO SEE IF I COULD HAVE HER SIGN OFF -- SIGN OFF THE REPORT, NOT PRESS CHARGES.

KEY QUOTE

# 116 Q:

HE ASKED YOU TO SEE IF YOU COULD GET HER TO SIGN OFF THE REPORT?

# 117 A:

YES, HE DID.

# 118 Q:

AND WHAT DOES SIGNING OFF THE REPORT MEAN?

# 119 A:

MEANING SAYING THAT IF SHE WERE TO SIGN IT THAT SHE WAS NOT AGREEING THAT HE, YOU KNOW, HAD ACTUALLY BATTERED HER, THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT TO GO THROUGH WITH THE ACTUAL CRIME REPORT AND HAVE IT GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

# 120 Q:

DID YOU EVER CONTACT THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ON THE DEFENDANT'S BEHALF?

# 121 A:

NEVER.

# 122 Q:

DID YOU EVER SPEAK TO ANY SUPERVISOR IN THE LAPD ON THE DEFENDANT'S BEHALF?

# 123 A:

YES, I DID.

# 124 Q:

WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

# 125 A:

WELL, HERE ONCE AGAIN I WAS CAUGHT BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE, AND I WAS -- WANTED TO TRY AND HELP O.J. OUT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I FELT THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE OF WHAT I KNEW AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THAT TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP, BUT I DID BRING -- I BROUGHT THE PAPER OVER TO HER.

# 126 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS NONRESPONSIVE.

# 127 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 128 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: DID SOMEONE ASK YOU TO BRING THE PAPER TO NICOLE?

# 129 A:

YEAH, O.J. DID.

# 130 Q:

WHAT IS THIS PAPER THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO?

# 131 A:

WHAT I REMEMBER, IT WAS -- IT WAS A DOCUMENT -- I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE ACTUAL WORDING IS. IT WAS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT, YOU KNOW, I DO NOT WISH TO PRESS CHARGES AT THIS TIME, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I CAN'T REMEMBER.

# 132 Q:

OKAY. BUT YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE LAPD AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

# 133 A:

RIGHT.

# 134 Q:

SWORN POLICE OFFICER?

# 135 A:

RIGHT. YES, I WAS.

# 136 Q:

AND YOU DID TAKE IT TO HER?

# 137 A:

I TOOK IT TO HER.

# 138 Q:

DID SHE SIGN IT?

# 139 A:

NO, SHE DIDN'T.

# 140 Q:

TO GO BACK TO THE ISSUE OF WHETHER YOU CONTACTED ANY SUPERVISORS ON THE DEFENDANT'S BEHALF, DID YOU CONTACT ANY OF YOUR SUPERVISORS AT THE LAPD?

# 141 A:

IT WASN'T MY IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR, BUT IT WAS THE SUPERVISOR THAT WAS HANDLING THE CASE.

# 142 Q:

WHO WOULD THAT BE?

# 143 A:

LEE KINGSFORD.

# 144 Q:

AND WAS HE IN THE DETECTIVE SECTION AT WEST L.A. STATION?

# 145 A:

YES, HE WAS. HE WAS THE DETECTIVE 3.

# 146 Q:

THAT IS THE SUPERVISING DETECTIVE?

# 147 A:

YES. YES, IT IS.

# 148 Q:

OKAY. NOW, DID SOMEONE ASK YOU TO CONTACT THE SUPERVISOR DETECTIVE AT LAPD?

# 149 A:

I WASN'T SPECIFICALLY ASKED TO CONTACT AN INDIVIDUAL. IT WAS JUST, "HEY, RON, CAN YOU GET THIS TAKEN CARE OF?"

# 150 Q:

WELL, DID THE DEFENDANT TELL YOU HOW OR WHAT TO DO TO TAKE CARE OF IT?

# 151 A:

NO, HE DIDN'T.

# 152 Q:

WELL, WHAT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT REQUEST? WHAT DID HE MEAN BY "TAKE CARE OF IT"?

# 153 A:

IF I COULD --

# 154 MR. DOUGLAS:

CALL FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR.

# 155 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 156 RON SHIPP:

IF I COULD TAKE THE -- IF I COULD BRING THE DOCUMENT THAT NICOLE WOULD SIGN, BECAUSE AT THE TIME NICOLE WASN'T SURE WHAT SHE WANTED TO DO.

# 157 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN.

# 158 MR. DARDEN:

YES. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 159 Q:

DID YOU REMAIN FRIENDS WITH THE DEFENDANT?

# 160 A:

YES, I DID.

# 161 Q:

DID YOU REMAIN FRIENDS WITH NICOLE?

# 162 A:

YES, I DID.

# 163 Q:

WERE YOU STILL FRIENDS WITH THE DEFENDANT AND NICOLE ON JUNE 12, 1994?

# 164 A:

YES, I WAS.

# 165 Q:

AT SOME POINT YOU LEARNED THAT NICOLE BROWN WAS DEAD; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 166 A:

YES, I DID.

Temperature

devastating

Key Quotes (5)

Ronald Shipp

HE SAID 'MAYBE I MIGHT BE A LITTLE JEALOUS' AND THAT WAS IT.

OJ's only partial admission from the batterer's profile — specifically acknowledging 'pathologically jealous' while denying all other characteristics.

Ronald Shipp

HE SAID IT WAS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.

OJ's own framing of the 1989 beating, which the prosecution is using to show consciousness of guilt and pattern minimization.

Ronald Shipp

HE WAS VERY UPSET BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THAT HE WAS GOING TO LOSE HERTZ AND HIS IMAGE WAS GOING TO BE TARNISHED.

Shows OJ's primary concern after the 1989 beating was protecting his endorsement deals, not Nicole's welfare.

Ronald Shipp

HE HAD ASKED ME TO GET A -- TO SEE IF I COULD HAVE HER SIGN OFF -- SIGN OFF THE REPORT, NOT PRESS CHARGES.

Establishes that OJ enlisted an LAPD officer to obstruct Nicole from pursuing a domestic violence charge — using Shipp's police access and relationship with Nicole.

Ronald Shipp

I WAS CAUGHT BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE... I DID BRING -- I BROUGHT THE PAPER OVER TO HER.

Shipp admits to an act of police misconduct on OJ's behalf, making him a credible but conflicted witness — he's confessing to something damaging to himself.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Photographs of Nicole Brown Simpson's bruised left arm and thigh

discussed — Shipp confirms he saw bruises described as 'darkish kind of bluish color'

Informal

Batterer's profile document, page 2, lines 3-4 — 'pathologically jealous'

shown to witness and reviewed by judge; OJ admitted to possibly fitting this characteristic

Informal

Non-prosecution document for Nicole to sign ('I do not wish to press charges at this time')

Shipp physically delivered it to Nicole at OJ's request; Nicole refused to sign

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Lance A. Ito•Carl Douglas

After Shipp volunteers what Nicole told him about the batterer's profile fitting OJ 'to the T,' the judge sustains a hearsay objection and strikes the testimony. Darden then asks for clarification on exactly what was stricken, leading to an off-record conference.

procedurally consequential

Lance A. Ito•Johnnie Cochran•Carl Douglas•Christopher Darden

Dispute over the batterer's profile document — defense says they don't have a copy in court; Darden insists it was turned over in discovery. Judge reviews the document himself and asks Darden to lay additional foundation before reading from it.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Ronald Shipp

Shipp describes OJ's version of the January 1, 1989 incident: Nicole wanted to stop during sex, they argued, Nicole was 'the aggressor,' and OJ claimed self-defense — he 'just pushed her away.' Darden methodically draws out the minimization.

revealing

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Ronald Shipp

self-incrimination / implied bias

Defense objections (nonresponsive, speculation) appear designed to limit Shipp's elaborations; Shipp's own admission of taking Nicole a non-prosecution document while an LAPD officer is potentially impeachable, though here it serves the prosecution's narrative of OJ's control over Shipp

Witness Demeanor

(BRIEF PAUSE) — witness hesitates and self-corrects when asked if he had a second conversation with OJ after the 1989 incident became public, initially saying no, then yes, then reverting to no after a moment of reflection

Objections

7 objections (4 sustained, 2 overruled)

Proceeding 4524 • 166 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103