Direct examination of Ron Shipp (morning, part 3)

📄 Direct examination of Ron Shipp (morning, part 3) — Wednesday, February 1, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\FEB\1\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RON-SHIP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 10 of 167

◀ Sidebar: Evidence Code 1107 domestic violence Sidebar: photograph evidence foundation ▶

Witness: Ron Shipp
Examiner: Christopher Darden
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Wednesday, February 1, 1995 • Utterances: 142

Ronald Shipp testifies about visiting Nicole Brown Simpson twice in the days after the January 1, 1989 beating — first spending four to five hours with her, then returning with copies of a domestic violence lesson plan. He describes reviewing the batterer and victim profiles with Nicole, noting she focused primarily on the batterer's profile, and that she asked him to confront OJ about it. Three Polaroid photographs of Nicole (People's 9-11) are introduced, but Shipp clarifies these are not the photographs Nicole showed him — she showed him different photos depicting injuries to her left arm and upper thigh.

# 1 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

# 2 THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LET ME JUST REMIND YOU THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE HEARING REGARDING THE 1989 INCIDENT IS LIMITED. THIS TESTIMONY IS LIMITED TO THAT PARTICULAR TESTIMONY AT THIS TIME.

# 3 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN.

# 4 MR. DARDEN:

CAN I HAVE THE LAST QUESTION READ BACK, YOUR HONOR? IT HAPPENED A WHILE AGO.

# 5 THE COURT:

I THINK YOU ASKED MR. SHIPP TO TELL US ABOUT THE CHARACTERISTICS ON THE LIST.

# 6 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: YOU JUST READ THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A BATTERER -- A VICTIM?

# 7 A:

I GOT HALF WAY.

# 8 MR. DARDEN:

OKAY. SHALL WE START AT THE TOP FROM THE BEGINNING OR SHALL WE START MIDWAY, YOUR HONOR?

# 9 THE COURT:

WELL, READING THE DOCUMENT IS REALLY NOT WHAT IS AT ISSUE.

# 10 MR. DARDEN:

PARDON ME?

# 11 THE COURT:

ISN'T IT AT ISSUE HIS DISCUSSIONS WITH THE VARIOUS PARTIES?

# 12 MR. DARDEN:

SURE. ABSOLUTELY.

# 13 Q:

CONTINUE READING, PLEASE.

# 14 MR. DOUGLAS:

WELL, YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO HIM READING THE DOCUMENT, YOUR HONOR.

# 15 THE COURT:

READING THE DOCUMENT IS IRRELEVANT TO THE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PARTIES AT THIS TIME, ISN'T IT?

# 16 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

# 17 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

# 18 Q:

OKAY. BUT YOU HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH NICOLE BROWN AT THE HOUSE A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER JANUARY 1, CORRECT?

# 19 A:

YES, I DID.

# 20 Q:

OKAY. NOW, DID YOU HAVE THAT TEACHING PLAN WITH YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 21 A:

THE FIRST TIME I WENT OVER THERE?

# 22 Q:

YES.

# 23 A:

NO, I DID NOT.

# 24 Q:

OKAY. WAS THE DEFENDANT PRESENT THAT FIRST TIME YOU WENT OVER?

# 25 A:

NO, HE WAS NOT.

# 26 Q:

HOW LONG WERE YOU AT THE HOUSE THAT DAY, THAT FIRST TIME?

# 27 A:

THE FIRST TIME I WAS THERE PROBABLY I THINK MAYBE FOUR -- MAYBE FOUR, MAYBE FIVE HOURS, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

# 28 Q:

OKAY. AND DID YOU RETURN TO THE HOUSE AGAIN?

# 29 A:

THE NEXT DAY, YES, I DID.

# 30 Q:

OKAY. DID YOU BRING ANYTHING WITH YOU AT THAT TIME?

# 31 A:

YES, I DID.

# 32 Q:

WHAT DID YOU BRING WITH YOU?

# 33 A:

I MADE COPIES OF A PORTIONS OF THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LESSON PLAN.

# 34 Q:

YOU MADE COPIES OF THE LESSON PLAN IN FRONT OF YOU?

# 35 A:

YES, I DID.

# 36 Q:

AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE HOUSE WAS NICOLE BROWN THERE?

# 37 A:

YES, SHE WAS.

# 38 Q:

WAS THE DEFENDANT THERE?

# 39 A:

NO, HE WASN'T.

# 40 Q:

DID YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH NICOLE BROWN?

# 41 A:

YES, I DID.

# 42 Q:

DID YOU SHOW HER THE PROFILE OF THE BATTERED WOMAN?

# 43 A:

YES, I DID.

# 44 Q:

THE VICTIM'S PROFILE?

# 45 A:

YES, I DID.

# 46 Q:

DID YOU DISCUSS IT WITH HER?

# 47 A:

YES, I DID.

# 48 Q:

DID YOU DISCUSS WITH HER EACH OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE VICTIM'S PROFILE?

# 49 A:

YEAH. I SHOWED THEM TO HER AND JUST WENT DOWN, YOU KNOW, AND WE READ THEM TOGETHER.

# 50 Q:

DID YOU ASK HER WHICH CHARACTERISTICS SEEMED TO APPLY TO HER?

# 51 A:

YOU KNOW, I REALLY CAN'T REMEMBER IF SHE ACTUALLY -- IF SHE ACTUALLY CAME OUT AND SAID, WELL, YEAH, THIS IS ALL ME. I REALLY CAN'T REMEMBER THAT. I DON'T RECALL HER ACTUALLY SAYING, YEAH, THIS FITS ALL ME. IT WAS -- IT WAS THE BATTERER'S THING THAT SHE FOCUSED THE MOST ON.

# 52 Q:

SO SHE FOCUSED MAINLY ON THE BATTERER'S PROFILE?

# 53 A:

RIGHT.

# 54 Q:

AND DID SHE ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT BATTERER'S PROFILE?

# 55 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, I ASK IT BE ANSWERED YES OR NO.

# 56 THE COURT:

YES.

# 57 MR. DARDEN:

THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE.

# 58 THE COURT:

NO, IT IS AN OBJECTION, BUT THE QUESTION CALLS FOR A YES OR NO ANSWER.

# 59 RON SHIPP:

AM I ANSWERING IT?

# 60 THE COURT:

YOU MAY.

# 61 RON SHIPP:

YES, SHE DID.

# 62 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: AND DID YOU DO WHAT SHE ASKED YOU TO DO?

# 63 A:

YES, I DID.

# 64 Q:

WHEN WAS THE NEXT TIME THAT YOU SAW THE DEFENDANT?

# 65 A:

IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN LATER ON THAT WEEK.

# 66 Q:

OKAY.

# 67 A:

I'M PRETTY SURE IT WAS.

# 68 Q:

DO YOU RECALL WHERE HE WAS WHEN YOU SAW HIM?

# 69 A:

AT THE HOUSE.

# 70 Q:

WERE YOU ALSO AT THE HOUSE?

# 71 A:

YES, I WAS.

# 72 Q:

AND HAD YOU GONE TO THE HOUSE FOR A SPECIFIC REASON THAT DAY?

# 73 A:

YES, I DID.

# 74 Q:

AND WHAT WAS THAT REASON?

# 75 A:

TO TALK TO O.J. ABOUT THE PROFILES, AT NICOLE'S REQUEST.

KEY QUOTE

# 76 Q:

BY THE WAY, THE SECOND TIME THAT YOU VISITED NICOLE THAT WEEK, DID SHE SHOW YOU ANYTHING?

# 77 A:

YES, SHE DID.

# 78 Q:

WHAT DID SHE SHOW YOU?

# 79 A:

SHE SHOWED ME SOME PICTURES.

# 80 MR. DARDEN:

YOUR HONOR, I HAVE IN MY HAND THREE POLAROID PHOTOGRAPHS. MAY THEY BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 9, 10 AND 11?

# 81 THE COURT:

YES.

# 82 (PEO'S 9 THRU 11 FOR ID = POLAROID PHOTOS OF NBS)

# 83 MR. DARDEN:

SHOWING THEM TO DEFENSE COUNSEL.

# 84 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 85 MR. DARDEN:

MAY I CONTINUE WITH OTHER QUESTIONS WHILE WE WAIT FOR DEFENSE COUNSEL?

# 86 MR. DOUGLAS:

NO, YOUR HONOR. I'M ANALYZING THE PICTURES.

# 87 (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

# 88 THE COURT:

MR. DARDEN.

# 89 MR. DARDEN:

THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

# 90 THE COURT:

YOU MAY.

# 91 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: MR. SHIPP, LET ME HAND YOU PEOPLE'S 9 FOR IDENTIFICATION. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 92 A:

NO, I DON'T.

# 93 Q:

YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT PHOTOGRAPH BEFORE?

# 94 A:

NO, I HAVE NOT.

# 95 Q:

WHO WAS THE PERSON DEPICTED IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, IF YOU KNOW?

# 96 MR. DOUGLAS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

# 97 THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

# 98 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: WHO IS THE PERSON IN THE PHOTOGRAPH?

# 99 A:

NICOLE, NICOLE BROWN.

# 100 Q:

THAT IS NICOLE BROWN?

# 101 A:

YEAH, THERE'S NICOLE BROWN.

# 102 Q:

THAT PICTURE WASN'T SHOWN TO YOU ON -- DURING THAT FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY, 1989?

# 103 A:

NO, IT WAS NOT.

# 104 Q:

SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 10 FOR IDENTIFICATION, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 105 A:

NO, I DO NOT.

# 106 Q:

WAS THAT PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN TO YOU?

# 107 A:

NO, IT WAS NOT.

# 108 Q:

SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 11, WHO IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

# 109 A:

NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.

# 110 Q:

WAS THAT PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN TO YOU?

# 111 A:

NO, IT WAS NOT.

# 112 Q:

YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS BEFORE?

# 113 A:

NO, THOSE WEREN'T THE ONES THAT SHE SHOWED ME.

KEY QUOTE

# 114 Q:

THESE ARE NOT THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON SHOWED YOU DURING THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY, 1989?

# 115 A:

NO.

# 116 MR. DOUGLAS:

ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR, THREE TIMES.

# 117 THE COURT:

OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND.

# 118 Q:

BY MR. DARDEN: SO THAT THE RECORD IS CLEAR, EACH OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS DEPICT NICOLE BROWN; IS THAT RIGHT?

# 119 A:

THAT'S CORRECT.

# 120 Q:

BUT YOU WERE SHOWN SOME PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 121 A:

I WAS SHOWN SOME PHOTOGRAPHS.

# 122 Q:

AND WERE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS, PHOTOGRAPHS OF NICOLE?

# 123 A:

YES, THEY WERE.

# 124 Q:

HOW MANY PHOTOGRAPHS DID SHE SHOW YOU?

# 125 A:

APPROXIMATELY FOUR, MAYBE FIVE.

# 126 Q:

WERE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS POLAROID PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 127 A:

I REALLY -- I THINK -- I CAN'T REMEMBER. I THINK THEY MAY HAVE BEEN. NO, SHE TOLD ME SHE TOOK THEM OF HERSELF, SO I CAN'T REALLY REMEMBER IF THEY WERE POLAROID OR NOT.

# 128 Q:

DO THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS DEPICT NICOLE'S FACE?

# 129 A:

THEY WEREN'T REALLY THAT CLOSE UP. THEY WERE MORE -- IF I REMEMBER, THEY WERE MORE OF HER BODY, THE ONES THAT I SAW.

# 130 Q:

OKAY. WHAT PARTS OF HER BODY WERE DEPICTED IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 131 A:

I REMEMBER HER LEFT ARM STANDS OUT AND ALSO HER -- IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, HER LEFT -- LEFT UPPER THIGH.

KEY QUOTE

# 132 Q:

ANY OTHER PARTS OF HER BODY THAT YOU RECALL?

# 133 A:

THAT IS ALL I CAN REMEMBER.

# 134 Q:

AND DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ON HER LEFT ARM AND ON HER UPPER THIGH, THAT IS, AS SHOWN IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

# 135 A:

UMM --

# 136 MR. DOUGLAS:

YOUR HONOR, BEST EVIDENCE RULE. OBJECTION.

# 137 THE COURT:

OVERRULED ON THAT BASIS.

# 138 MR. DOUGLAS:

NO FOUNDATION.

# 139 RON SHIPP:

NO.

# 140 THE COURT:

SUSTAINED.

# 141 RON SHIPP:

THE PHOTOS SHE SHOWED ME WERE FROM THE PAST.

# 142 THE COURT:

HOLD ON. LET ME SEE COUNSEL AT THE SIDE BAR.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Ronald Shipp

IT WAS -- IT WAS THE BATTERER'S THING THAT SHE FOCUSED THE MOST ON.

Nicole's attention to the batterer profile — not her own victim profile — suggests she was processing OJ's behavior, not just her own situation. Damaging to the defense.

Ronald Shipp

TO TALK TO O.J. ABOUT THE PROFILES, AT NICOLE'S REQUEST.

Establishes that Nicole actively enlisted Shipp to confront Simpson about the domestic violence patterns — she recognized the problem and sought help.

Ronald Shipp

NO, THOSE WEREN'T THE ONES THAT SHE SHOWED ME.

Reveals that the photographs Nicole actually showed Shipp — documenting her injuries — are not among the exhibits introduced. Creates a gap in the documentary record and raises the question of where those photos are.

Ronald Shipp

I REMEMBER HER LEFT ARM STANDS OUT AND ALSO HER -- IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, HER LEFT -- LEFT UPPER THIGH.

Shipp's description of injury photographs Nicole took of herself — bruising on the arm and thigh — corroborates physical abuse from the 1989 incident without the photos themselves being in evidence.

Evidence (5)

People's 9

Polaroid photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson

Introduced for ID; Shipp confirms it depicts Nicole but was not one of the photos she showed him

People's 10

Polaroid photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson

Introduced for ID; Shipp confirms it was not shown to him by Nicole

People's 11

Polaroid photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson

Introduced for ID; Shipp confirms it was not shown to him by Nicole

Informal

Domestic violence lesson plan with batterer and victim profiles — copies made by Shipp and brought to Nicole's house

Discussed; Shipp describes reviewing it with Nicole and her focus on the batterer's profile

Informal

Approximately four to five photographs of Nicole's injuries (left arm, upper thigh), taken by Nicole herself — not the People's 9-11 exhibits

Described by Shipp from memory; not introduced as exhibits; testimony cut off at sidebar before details fully elicited

Notable Exchanges (3)

Christopher Darden•Carl Douglas

Douglas attempts to limit Shipp's answer to yes/no on whether Nicole asked him to do something with the batterer's profile. Darden calls the maneuver 'inappropriate.' Ito sides with Douglas on form but allows the answer.

strategic

Christopher Darden•Ronald Shipp

Darden introduces three Polaroid photos expecting Shipp to identify them as the ones Nicole showed him — but Shipp clearly states they are not the same photographs. An apparent evidentiary gap is exposed mid-examination.

revealing

Carl Douglas•Lance A. Ito

Douglas raises best evidence rule and lack of foundation when Darden asks Shipp to describe what was visible in the photos Nicole showed him. Foundation objection sustained; Shipp begins to answer anyway ('THE PHOTOS SHE SHOWED ME WERE FROM THE PAST') before Ito calls a sidebar.

strategic

Witness Demeanor

Witness answers carefully and hedges on memory ('I really can't remember,' 'I think they may have been')

Witness attempts to answer after foundation objection sustained ('THE PHOTOS SHE SHOWED ME WERE FROM THE PAST') before being cut off by Ito

Objections

6 objections (1 sustained, 3 overruled)

Proceeding 4522 • 142 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103