Direct examination of Gretchen Stockdale

📄 Direct examination of Gretchen Stockdale — Tuesday, August 8, 1995

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\8\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-GRETCHEN.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 131 of 167

◀ Answering machine tape recording Cross-examination of Gretchen Stockdale ▶

Witness: Gretchen Stockdale
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Prosecution • Date: Tuesday, August 8, 1995 • Utterances: 291

Gretchen Stockdale, a longtime acquaintance of OJ Simpson, testifies about a voicemail he left her at 7:35 PM on June 12, 1994 — the night of the murders — in which he described himself as 'totally, totally unattached with everybody.' The bulk of the examination concerns the chain of custody of the tape recording: Stockdale saved it, gave it to Defense investigator William Pavelic in September 1994, and then intentionally recorded over her own backup copy in March or April of 1995 without informing anyone. This is a 402 hearing to establish admissibility of the tape and its provenance.

# 1 THE COURT:

All right. Miss Clark.

# 2 MS. CLARK:

Thank you. People call Gretchen Stockdale.

# 3 THE COURT:

All right. Miss Stockdale.

Gretchen Stockdale (402), called as a witness by the People, pursuant to evidence code section 402, was sworn and testified as follows:

# 4 THE COURT:

All right. Miss Stockdale, face the clerk, please.

# 5 THE CLERK:

Raise your right hand, please. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

# 6 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes, I will.

# 7 THE CLERK:

Please have a seat in the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

# 8 MS. STOCKDALE:

My name is Gretchen, G-R-E-T-C-H-E-N, Stockdale, S-T-O-C-K-D-A-L-E.

# 9 THE CLERK:

Thank you.

# 10 THE COURT:

Miss Clark.

# 11 MS. CLARK:

Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK

# 12 MS. CLARK:

Good afternoon, Miss Stockdale.

# 13 MS. STOCKDALE:

Good afternoon, Miss Clark.

# 14 MS. CLARK:

Thanks for coming in.

# 15 MS. STOCKDALE:

Sure.

# 16 MS. CLARK:

Were you acquainted with the Defendant back in 1994, ma'am?

# 17 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 18 MS. CLARK:

And as of June 12th, 1994, had you been dating him for some period of time?

# 19 MS. STOCKDALE:

No. I wouldn't characterize it as dating.

# 20 MS. CLARK:

When had you met?

# 21 MS. STOCKDALE:

Oh, in 1988 casually at a charity event.

# 22 MS. CLARK:

And then had you seen him again after that?

# 23 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yeah. We ran into each other several times over the years.

# 24 MS. CLARK:

And at what point did you--well, did you at some point begin a dating relationship?

# 25 MS. STOCKDALE:

Like I said, I wouldn't characterize our relationship as dating. We had a good communicative friendship. And in 1993, around the fall, I contacted him to actually ask his advice on an investment issue.

# 26 MS. CLARK:

Okay. At some--what kind of contact had you had? Did you ever meet for dinner?

# 27 MR. UELMEN:

Your Honor, we'll object as irrelevant.

# 28 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 29 MR. UELMEN:

For this issue.

# 30 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 31 MS. STOCKDALE:

Could you be more specific, what are you--

# 32 MS. CLARK:

By MS. CLARK: Yeah. Between 1988 and 1994, did you ever meet him for dinner?

# 33 MS. STOCKDALE:

No. Actually I--

# 34 THE COURT:

Counsel, all I'm really interested in is the flavor, the nature of the relationship. So let's not go too far with this.

# 35 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Were there any intimate dinners that you had--

# 36 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 37 MS. CLARK:

--during the scope and time that you saw each other?

# 38 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 39 MS. CLARK:

Did you ever see each other in person?

# 40 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes. As I said, I ran into him several times on different occasions, NFL functions, charity events. I actually did run into him in a restaurant one time, and he was on a date with Paula and I joined them briefly.

# 41 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Then at some point in the year of 1994, did that relationship become more intimate?

# 42 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 43 MS. CLARK:

Never at any point?

# 44 MS. STOCKDALE:

Well, yeah. I think our communication increased around `93, as I stated, around the time I called and asked him for some advice.

# 45 MS. CLARK:

And that was business advice?

# 46 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 47 MS. CLARK:

All right. And then 19--did you continue then to have regular phone conversations after that point in time in 1993?

# 48 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes, I would say so.

# 49 MS. CLARK:

And those business--were those conversations all regarding business?

# 50 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 51 MS. CLARK:

They became more personal?

# 52 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes. We developed a friendship.

# 53 MS. CLARK:

And did you discuss with him the nature of his relationship with Paula Barbieri?

# 54 MR. UELMEN:

Objection, your Honor. Irrelevant.

# 55 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 56 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Did you discuss with him the nature of his relationship with Nicole Brown Simpson?

# 57 MR. UELMEN:

Same objection.

# 58 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 59 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes, periodically.

# 60 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And when did you begin to have those conversations concerning Nicole with the Defendant?

# 61 MS. STOCKDALE:

Around the fall of `93.

# 62 MS. CLARK:

Did you continue to have those conversations with him through 1994?

# 63 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 64 MS. CLARK:

When you had those conversations with him about Nicole, was that in person or on the telephone?

# 65 MS. STOCKDALE:

Both.

# 66 MS. CLARK:

And when you had those conversations with him in person, where did they take place?

# 67 MS. STOCKDALE:

Oh, a number of different places. At his home, at my home, at a restaurant.

# 68 MS. CLARK:

Okay. How many times would you say in the year of 1994 did you have conversations with him about Nicole in his home on Rockingham?

# 69 MS. STOCKDALE:

I'm not really sure. I couldn't give you a number.

# 70 MS. CLARK:

Can you give me an estimate like--

# 71 MS. STOCKDALE:

How many times we spoke about Nicole?

# 72 MS. CLARK:

In 1994?

# 73 MS. STOCKDALE:

Specifically at his home.

# 74 MS. CLARK:

Yeah.

# 75 MS. STOCKDALE:

Is that what you're asking me? Oh, three times.

# 76 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And when in 1994 was it that you had those conversations about her in his home?

# 77 MR. UELMEN:

Your Honor--

# 78 THE COURT:

Counsel, I think our focus here is the tape though. That's what we're interested in, correct?

# 79 MS. CLARK:

Yes, your Honor.

# 80 THE COURT:

All right.

# 81 MS. CLARK:

All right. Can you tell us how many times you visited him in his home in 1994?

# 82 THE COURT:

Counsel, let's move on to the tape.

# 83 MS. CLARK:

Okay.

# 84 MS. CLARK:

By June the 12th, 1994, did--had you formed a more intimate relationship with him in terms of personal discussions and involvement?

# 85 MS. STOCKDALE:

In terms of communication, yes.

# 86 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Had you made any--had he made any overtures to you about becoming his girlfriend?

# 87 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 88 MR. UELMEN:

Your Honor--

# 89 THE COURT:

Overruled. The answer will stand. Let's move on to the tape and the whereabouts of the tape, please.

# 90 MS. CLARK:

All right.

# 91 MS. CLARK:

On June the 12th, 1994, at some point, did you leave your home?

# 92 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 93 MS. CLARK:

And did you come back and retrieve a message?

# 94 MS. STOCKDALE:

Not on the 12th, no.

# 95 MS. CLARK:

Okay. When did you retrieve that message?

# 96 MS. STOCKDALE:

I retrieved a message on the 13th, but not from my home.

# 97 MS. CLARK:

All right. Did you have an answering machine or message service?

# 98 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes. It's an answering service, telephonic answering service.

# 99 MS. CLARK:

Can you tell us how that works?

# 100 MS. STOCKDALE:

It's my voice on the machine and you can leave a private message on that machine. Then I call in and enter a code and retrieve my messages.

# 101 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Is that like voice mail?

# 102 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 103 MS. CLARK:

And did you retrieve some voice mail on June the 13th?

# 104 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 105 MS. CLARK:

And was that message from the Defendant?

# 106 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 107 MS. CLARK:

Did you have an accurate recording of the time on your voice mail?

# 108 MS. STOCKDALE:

It states the time on my voice mail, what time the message comes in.

# 109 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And do you--if you know, as of June the 12th, 1994, in the evening hours, was the time stamp on your voice mail accurate?

# 110 MS. STOCKDALE:

As far as I know, yes.

# 111 MS. CLARK:

You had not made an independent check?

# 112 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 113 MS. CLARK:

All right. When you retrieved the message, did it indicate that the message from the Defendant came in at 7:35 P.M. on the night of June the 12th?

# 114 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes, it did.

# 115 MS. CLARK:

And I'm going to read to you a quote from the New York daily news. I'm going to ask you to tell me whether or not this seems to replicate the message that you recall being left for you, okay--

# 116 MS. STOCKDALE:

Okay.

# 117 MS. CLARK:

--on the night of June the 12th at 7:35 P.M., okay?

# 118 MS. STOCKDALE:

Okay.

# 119 MS. CLARK:

Quote, "Hey, Gretchen, sweetheart, it's Orenthal James who is finally at a place in his life where he is like totally, totally unattached with everybody, ha, ha." And, "Uh, in any event, umm, I've got a Sunday evening and I'd love--I guess I'm catching a red eye at midnight or something to Chicago, but I'll be back Monday night. Uh, if you'll leave me a message, leave it on 310--" and then a number, and then, "That's 310--" and then the number repeated again. Do you recall what I've just stated to you as being the message left for you by the Defendant on the night of June the 12th, 1994?

KEY QUOTE

# 120 MS. STOCKDALE:

I can't recall verbatim, but it appears close, yes.

# 121 MS. CLARK:

It sounds right?

# 122 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 123 MS. CLARK:

If I showed you this and let you read it, would that help you to state whether or not this is an actual rendition of the message you got?

# 124 MS. STOCKDALE:

You could show it to me. But again, I haven't heard it for quite some time. So I don't know if word for word it's correct, but the--it's basically what I remember.

# 125 MS. CLARK:

Okay. I'll let you look at it in a minute and see if that helps you anymore.

# 126 MS. STOCKDALE:

Okay.

# 127 MS. CLARK:

But then you picked up that message on June the 13th; is that right?

# 128 MS. STOCKDALE:

That's correct.

# 129 MS. CLARK:

From your voice mail?

# 130 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 131 MS. CLARK:

Did you preserve that message in some manner?

# 132 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes, I did.

# 133 MS. CLARK:

And how did you do that?

# 134 MS. STOCKDALE:

Just by pressing the number that indicates "Save" on my machine.

# 135 MS. CLARK:

And you saved the message on--was that a regular tape or a microcassette?

# 136 MS. STOCKDALE:

Well, I'm not sure what they have at the answering service. It's whatever they have in their building. I'm not sure what--how they use it, maybe computer or disk.

# 137 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Now, the statement that he makes in here that he said he's finally in a place in his life where he's totally unattached and he said he'd love to--"Evening, I'd love--I guess I'm catching a red eye. I'd like to get together Monday night," was this the first time that he had made such a statement to you about being free and available?

# 138 MR. UELMEN:

Objection. Irrelevant, your Honor.

# 139 THE COURT:

Sustained. I'm interested in where the tape is.

# 140 MS. CLARK:

All right. You pressed the button "Save"?

# 141 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 142 MS. CLARK:

Then what did you do? Did you ever retrieve that tape physically?

# 143 MS. STOCKDALE:

At a later date. I asked for a copy.

# 144 MS. CLARK:

Okay. From your answering service?

# 145 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 146 MS. CLARK:

And they gave it to you?

# 147 MS. STOCKDALE:

They mailed it to me.

# 148 MS. CLARK:

And was it a microcassette or a regular cassette.

# 149 MS. STOCKDALE:

It was on a regular size cassette.

# 150 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And then when was it that you got that cassette physically in your possession?

# 151 MS. STOCKDALE:

That one I received on--I don't know--a week or so after the message was left.

# 152 MS. CLARK:

Okay. So that would have been the 19th of June?

# 153 MS. STOCKDALE:

Or the--around the 20th.

# 154 MS. CLARK:

And when you got that cassette in your physical custody, what did you do with it?

# 155 MS. STOCKDALE:

Put it away.

# 156 MS. CLARK:

In--

# 157 MS. STOCKDALE:

Just in my closet I think.

# 158 MS. CLARK:

Okay. At some point in time, did you have a conversation with a Defense investigator by the name of William Pavelic?

# 159 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 160 MS. CLARK:

And when was it that you had that conversation with him?

# 161 MS. STOCKDALE:

It was sometime September, October--I can't remember clearly--of that year.

# 162 MS. CLARK:

And in--do you recall having a conversation with D.A. investigator by the name of Dana Thompson on June the 21st, 1995?

# 163 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 164 MS. CLARK:

And do you recall telling him that you turned over that tape to William Pavelic, the Defense investigator, in September of 1994?

# 165 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 166 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And does that seem to the best of your recollection at this time an accurate time for when you gave Mr. Pavelic that tape?

# 167 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 168 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And then when you had the conversation with Mr. Pavelic, you at that time physically gave him possession of that tape?

# 169 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 170 MS. CLARK:

And did you tell him what was contained on the tape?

# 171 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 172 MS. CLARK:

Did he tell you what he intended to do with it?

# 173 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 174 MS. CLARK:

What did he tell you?

# 175 MS. STOCKDALE:

That he would take it and listen to it and pass it on to other members of the Defense.

# 176 MS. CLARK:

All right. Did he tell you whether or not he intended to present it in evidence?

# 177 MS. STOCKDALE:

At that time, he didn't say one way or the other what he planned to do with it.

# 178 MS. CLARK:

At that time, did he tell you whether or not he thought that they would call you as a witness for the Defense?

# 179 MS. STOCKDALE:

No, he didn't.

# 180 MS. CLARK:

Okay. You had no conversation about that at all?

# 181 MS. STOCKDALE:

No. He--

# 182 MS. CLARK:

I'm sorry?

# 183 MS. STOCKDALE:

We didn't.

# 184 MS. CLARK:

Did you expect to be called as a witness for the Defense?

# 185 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 186 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Did you expect to--

# 187 THE COURT:

Are there any copies of this tape anywhere? Did you make any copies before you gave it to Mr. Pavelic?

# 188 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes. There was another copy made.

# 189 THE COURT:

All right. How did you do that?

# 190 MS. STOCKDALE:

I held up a cassette recorder to the telephone, the actual telephone.

# 191 THE COURT:

And what happened to that copy?

# 192 MS. STOCKDALE:

That has been taped over.

# 193 THE COURT:

When did you notice that it had been--when did you realize or discover that it had been taped over?

# 194 MS. STOCKDALE:

Well, I didn't realize it. I did it several months ago.

# 195 THE COURT:

All right. What is the name of the telephone answering company that provides the service for you.

# 196 MS. STOCKDALE:

Prestige voice mail.

# 197 THE COURT:

And where are they located?

# 198 MS. STOCKDALE:

Lomita.

# 199 THE COURT:

Miss Clark, anything else?

# 200 MS. CLARK:

Yes. Thank you, your Honor.

# 201 MS. CLARK:

Can you tell us, ma'am, how many times you've visited Mr. Simpson in the jail?

# 202 MR. UELMEN:

Objection, your Honor. Irrelevant.

# 203 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 204 MS. CLARK:

Can you tell us how many times you visited the Defendant in jail since June 21st, 1995?

# 205 MR. UELMEN:

Same objection.

# 206 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 207 MS. STOCKDALE:

I haven't.

# 208 MS. CLARK:

You had no visits?

# 209 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 210 THE COURT:

Wait, wait, wait. Let's move on to something else. Has to do with the location of the tape, where it went, whose got it. Was this tape ever returned to you by Mr. Pavelic?

# 211 MS. STOCKDALE:

No, it wasn't.

# 212 THE COURT:

All right.

# 213 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Did you play the tape for Mr. Pavelic?

# 214 MS. STOCKDALE:

No, I didn't. He brought a tape recorder along, but it was a microcassette. And as I stated, it was on a regular size tape recorder. So he took it with him.

# 215 MS. CLARK:

Now, you were interviewed by a reporter from the New York daily news, correct?

# 216 MS. STOCKDALE:

That's incorrect.

# 217 MS. CLARK:

You were not interviewed?

# 218 MS. STOCKDALE:

No. I was never interviewed.

# 219 MS. CLARK:

You did not have any conversation then with Michelle Caruso of the Daily News?

# 220 MS. STOCKDALE:

Absolutely not.

# 221 MS. CLARK:

Did you ever play that tape recording for anyone?

# 222 MS. STOCKDALE:

No, I certainly did not.

# 223 MS. CLARK:

You didn't play it for Michelle Caruso of the daily news?

# 224 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 225 MS. CLARK:

Did you play it for any of your friends?

# 226 MS. STOCKDALE:

No, I didn't.

# 227 MS. CLARK:

Did you play it for any members of the Defense team?

# 228 MS. STOCKDALE:

I didn't personally play it. I don't know what Mr. Pavelic did, but I didn't.

# 229 MS. CLARK:

What about the--why did you make the additional copy after you gave the first copy to Mr. Pavelic?

# 230 MS. STOCKDALE:

I didn't make it afterwards. I made it at the same time I requested the copy from the voice mail.

# 231 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And why did you make that extra copy?

# 232 MS. STOCKDALE:

In case the one from the voice mail got lost or it didn't work or I didn't get it, I would still have one.

# 233 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And you did not give that extra copy to Mr. Pavelic?

# 234 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 235 MS. CLARK:

Do you recall being--when you were interviewed by Dana Thompson from the D.A.'s office on June 21st, 1995, do you recall telling him about that second copy, the copy you made yourself from the telephone?

# 236 MS. STOCKDALE:

No. He didn't ask me if there was a second copy.

KEY QUOTE

# 237 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Would you do me a favor, please, and review this statement here.

# 238 MS. STOCKDALE:

Okay.

# 239 MS. CLARK:

That is a report of your conversation with Dana Thompson, and tell us if the information contained in that is accurate.

# 240 MS. STOCKDALE:

(The witness complies.) It's incorrect.

# 241 MS. CLARK:

And in what respect is that?

# 242 MS. STOCKDALE:

The portion of the sentence that says "And gave him her only copy of the above tape." He just asked me if I gave a copy.

# 243 MS. CLARK:

All right. And in this interview report, it states that you told him on June 21st, 1995, that you gave Mr. Pavelic the only copy of that tape in September of 1994. That's what it states here; is that correct?

# 244 MS. STOCKDALE:

That's what it states.

# 245 MS. CLARK:

And your testimony now is that that's incorrect?

# 246 MS. STOCKDALE:

Correct. That's incorrect.

# 247 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Now, do you also recall that you, through your lawyer, demanded a retraction of a portion of the story that was run in the U.S. Daily News concerning this tape?

# 248 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes. That is why I initially retained legal counsel, is because I wanted formal papers filed demanding a retraction that I was trying to sell this tape, absolutely a false assertion.

KEY QUOTE

# 249 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And that portion of the article that asserted that you were trying to sell this tape was in fact retracted at your request, correct?

# 250 MS. STOCKDALE:

You bet it was.

# 251 MS. CLARK:

Okay. But the rest of the article which details the quotation that I've read to you, you did not demand a retraction as to that, correct?

# 252 MS. STOCKDALE:

No, I didn't.

# 253 MS. CLARK:

And I'm going to ask you to review what's highlighted here. It shows the date, the time and the substance of the conversation that was recorded, and ask if that is correct and accurate to the best of your recollection.

# 254 MS. STOCKDALE:

It's close to what I remember.

# 255 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 256 MS. CLARK:

And the Court has already elicited the statement as to what the name of the service is?

# 257 THE COURT:

You know, most of these voice mail systems are actually computer disks. Digital.

# 258 MS. CLARK:

Yeah, we hope.

# 259 MS. CLARK:

That seems to be an actual rendition to you?

# 260 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yeah. As I said, I don't remember word for word what it said.

# 261 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And then it's your testimony how--

# 262 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 263 MS. CLARK:

Can you remember at this time who it was that you asked at your answering service, the name of the person you spoke to when you asked for a copy of the tape?

# 264 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 265 MS. CLARK:

Shall we say that--can you tell us?

# 266 MS. STOCKDALE:

His name is Bruce Humiston.

# 267 MS. CLARK:

Can you spell the last name?

# 268 MS. STOCKDALE:

I'm speculating. H-U-M-I-S-T-O-N.

# 269 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Well, we'll look for something close. Did--when was it that it came to your attention that the other copy that you kept was no longer useful?

# 270 MS. STOCKDALE:

After I recorded over it.

# 271 MS. CLARK:

And when did that happen?

# 272 MS. STOCKDALE:

Oh, several months ago. March, April.

# 273 MS. CLARK:

March, April of this year?

# 274 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 275 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And did you--when you were recording over it, did you know that you were recording over it?

# 276 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 277 MS. CLARK:

Okay. You intentionally did that?

# 278 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes. It was no longer of any importance to me.

KEY QUOTE

# 279 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Did you check with anyone on the Defense team before you did that to make sure that it would be okay to erase it basically?

# 280 MS. STOCKDALE:

No.

# 281 MS. CLARK:

Did you inform anyone on the Defense team that you had done so?

# 282 MS. STOCKDALE:

No. Not at the time I did it.

# 283 MS. CLARK:

When was the first time you informed anyone that you had erased that other copy?

# 284 MS. STOCKDALE:

The first time I told anyone?

# 285 MS. CLARK:

Yeah.

# 286 MS. STOCKDALE:

When the issue arose in the New York daily news when I was speaking with my lawyers.

# 287 MS. CLARK:

Okay. And that was back in May of 1995?

# 288 MS. STOCKDALE:

Yes.

# 289 MS. CLARK:

May I have a moment, your Honor?

# 290 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

# 291 MS. CLARK:

Nothing further.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Marcia Clark

Hey, Gretchen, sweetheart, it's Orenthal James who is finally at a place in his life where he is like totally, totally unattached with everybody, ha, ha.

The content of OJ's 7:35 PM voicemail on the night of the murders — he describes himself as 'totally unattached,' suggesting fixation on his newly single status and potentially on Nicole, on the night she was killed.

Gretchen Stockdale

Yes. It was no longer of any importance to me.

Her explanation for intentionally recording over her backup copy of the tape in early 1995 — raises questions about evidence preservation.

Gretchen Stockdale

No. He didn't ask me if there was a second copy.

She contradicts the DA investigator's report which stated she gave Pavelic 'her only copy,' revealing the report was inaccurate and that a second copy existed and was later destroyed.

Gretchen Stockdale

That is why I initially retained legal counsel, is because I wanted formal papers filed demanding a retraction that I was trying to sell this tape, absolutely a false assertion.

Establishes her motive for demanding a partial retraction from the NY Daily News — she objected to being portrayed as selling the tape, but did not dispute the tape's content as published.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Voicemail tape recording of OJ Simpson's message to Gretchen Stockdale, left at 7:35 PM on June 12, 1994, from Prestige Voice Mail (Lomita), copied to a standard cassette

discussed, chain of custody established; original given to Defense investigator Pavelic; backup copy intentionally erased by witness in March/April 1995

Informal

DA investigator Dana Thompson's interview report of Stockdale from June 21, 1995

used to confront witness; she disputed the accuracy of the phrase 'only copy'

Informal

New York Daily News article by Michelle Caruso containing a quote of the voicemail message

used by Clark to read the message content into the record; Stockdale confirmed it was 'close' to what she remembered

Notable Exchanges (3)

Lance A. Ito•Gretchen Stockdale

Ito took over questioning directly from Clark to pin down the chain of custody of the tape — asking about copies, the answering service name and location, and what happened to each copy.

focused, judicial

Marcia Clark•Gretchen Stockdale

Clark established that Stockdale intentionally erased her backup copy of the tape in March/April 1995, did not inform the Defense beforehand or after, and only disclosed this when the NY Daily News story surfaced.

revealing

Marcia Clark•Gretchen Stockdale

Stockdale flatly denied ever speaking with NY Daily News reporter Michelle Caruso or playing the tape for anyone, raising unresolved questions about how the message content ended up in print.

strategic

Light Moments (1)

Lance A. Ito / Marcia Clark

After Stockdale described the answering service, Ito mused 'You know, most of these voice mail systems are actually computer disks. Digital.' Clark replied 'Yeah, we hope.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Gretchen Stockdale

prior inconsistent statement

Clark confronted Stockdale with DA investigator Dana Thompson's June 21, 1995 report stating she gave Pavelic 'her only copy' of the tape; Stockdale disputed this, saying Thompson never asked about a second copy.

Witness Demeanor

Careful and guarded — consistently resisted Clark's framing of the relationship as 'dating' or 'intimate'

Matter-of-fact when disclosing she intentionally erased the backup tape

Emphatic ('You bet it was', 'Absolutely not') when denying she sold or played the tape

Objections

8 objections (3 sustained, 5 overruled)

Proceeding 7231 • 291 utterances • Prosecution witness

Criminal Trial

Department 103