📄 Lunch recess — Monday, August 28, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\28\LUNCH-RECESS.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 143 of 167

Lunch recess

Date: Monday, August 28, 1995 • Utterances: 32
After the lunch recess, the prosecution (Goldberg) presents a composite diagram (People's 593) combining the Bodziak crime scene walkway diagram, a close-up of the 'caged-in area' showing body outlines, and defense photographs. Scheck objects that only the footprint/walkway portion is actually drawn to scale, making the rest of the diagram misleading to the jury. Judge Ito overrules the objection, noting he has personally visited the scene and reviewed all photographs and does not find the chart misleading.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. All parties are again present. The jury is not present. Counsel, anything we need to take up before we launch back into it?

3 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, there was the issue of the use of the scale diagram, your Honor. And the diagram that we brought to court today is a combination basically of three exhibits. It has part of the exhibit that we used with Bill Bodziak of the Bundy walk.

4 THE COURT:

Let me see the diagram.

5 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, is it okay if I put the board here?

6 THE COURT:

Why don't you put it on the jury box rail so I can see the diagram portion.

7 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, basically this is a combination of three diagrams. Part of the diagram is the Bundy walk diagram that was testified to by Bill Bodziak, which is to scale, and the tiles are approximately 11 and a half inches, and also the scale is the same as in the Bodziak diagram. So that's part of it. Then we also combined it with another diagram that just shows the close-in on the caged-in area, which the court will probably recall with the outline of Ron Goldman's body and Nicole's body. And then of course, we combined the Defense diagram on here with all the photographs. So that's all this is, is a compilation.

8 THE COURT:

All right. Any--

9 MR. GOLDBERG:

What?

10 THE COURT:

All right. Any further comment on that, on the scale objection?

11 MR. GOLDBERG:

No. That's the scale.

12 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I take it--Mr. Goldberg, before you take that down--the--the feet then refers to the Bodziak diagram. Is that--I mean, the scale, where did that come from? Is that the Bodziak--

13 MR. GOLDBERG:

The scale is from the Bodziak diagram.

14 MR. SCHECK:

See, I think the problem I have with this is, your Honor--a few of them. No. 1, I don't hear Mr. Goldberg making any representation that those bodies are drawn to scale in relation to the first--as Mr. Goldberg refers to it--the first plain walkway area and the closed-in area, nor is Mr. Goldman's body as depicted in that diagram necessarily in scale in relation to the tree or the rest of the closed-in area. And the problem that I think we've had with Dr. Lee and these photographs is, he was being asked to draw lines, is that in our photographs, he did everything by pole placements, and then we have different photographs of Mr. Goldman's body in relation to these things. They're taken from different angles, and frankly, it seems to me that it's already misleading. Dr. Lee has indicated, as he was drawing the various--extending the tape, what some of these limitations were. But my concern at the end of the morning and frankly my concern now is that I had thought that somehow those bodies were drawn to scale. I wasn't too sure what the purpose of this was initially. But now it's apparent to me that it is misleading in terms of trying to place the beeper in relation to the body over the shoulder and the poles. I think that there's no foundation whatsoever that we can do that through this diagram. In fact, the photographic evidence seems to be in contradiction to the way that this is drawn.

15 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, then this is a different objection than the one he made, which was simply to the scale. Does the court want me to address that?

16 THE COURT:

Well, the objection is to the scale of the bodies.

17 MR. SCHECK:

And the closed-in areas.

18 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, the scale of--first of all, the scale of Nicole is irrelevant basically for the purpose for which this is shown. But see, some of these things, your Honor, can be handled through independent evidence that's already been introduced.

19 THE COURT:

No. The simple question is, was there an attempt made to place the depiction of Ron Goldman's body--was that--any attempt to keep that in scale?

20 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yes. And I'm telling--what I'm telling your Honor is that the only way that that can be done, to try to accurately to do that, is by looking at the crime scene photographs to figure out where he was placed, and we already have extensive crime scene photographs showing that. If the court and counsel want me to introduce every crime scene photograph on Ron Goldman with this witness so that we can make sure this is proper, I'll do it, but I don't think that is what Mr. Scheck wants. I don't think that is in anyone's interest here, and the jury can simply look at the crime scene photographs we have and say yeah, that's about right; his foot was about there, his head is up against the stump.

21 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, my point--this--I have a proposal for resolving this, and that is that I think the pictures speak for themselves in terms of what they show. My problem is that now it's clear to us that the closed-in area and the bottom walkway area and the bodies and where they're placed there in are not drawn to scale whereas this diagram with its scale at the bottom seems to give the impression that the entire thing is drawn to scale when in fact all that's drawn to scale are the placement of the footprints and essentially the lifting of the Bodziak diagram. What I would request of the court is that there's an agreement of the parties that that is the only part of this diagram that is drawn to scale.

22 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, that's just not true. I mean, the whole thing--

23 THE COURT:

Well, don't interrupt his comment.

24 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, he was finished.

25 MR. SCHECK:

I'm only trying to listen very carefully to the proffer, and the proffer as I understand it is that the walkway diagram which shows the footprints is drawn to scale and the rest of it is not drawn to scale and the depictions of the bodies in relation to those locations is--has not in any scientific way been drawn to scale.

26 MR. GOLDBERG:

Everything is to scale and the only issue is the bodies, your Honor, and the bodies are based on photographs.

27 THE COURT:

All right.

28 MR. GOLDBERG:

That's the only way of doing it.

29 THE COURT:

All right. I'm going to overrule the objection at this time on foundational grounds. Court has seen all of the photographs that have been involved in this case plus been to the scene itself on numerous occasions, and the depiction on this chart, which is I believe People's exhibit 593, I don't find it to be misleading. All right. Let's proceed. Let's have the jury please.

30 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, do you want us to replace this as the jury is coming in or after?

31 THE COURT:

Why don't you place it--do you have much more with this diagram?

32 MR. GOLDBERG:

Oh, no.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (3)

Barry Scheck
it's already misleading. Dr. Lee has indicated, as he was drawing the various--extending the tape, what some of these limitations were... I think that there's no foundation whatsoever that we can do that through this diagram. In fact, the photographic evidence seems to be in contradiction to the way that this is drawn.
Scheck's core objection: the diagram falsely implies full-scale accuracy when only the Bodziak footprint walkway is actually to scale, potentially misleading the jury about body placement relative to evidence.
Hank Goldberg
the jury can simply look at the crime scene photographs we have and say yeah, that's about right; his foot was about there, his head is up against the stump.
Goldberg argues the bodies' placement is adequately supported by already-admitted crime scene photos, not requiring precise scientific scale.
Lance A. Ito
Court has seen all of the photographs that have been involved in this case plus been to the scene itself on numerous occasions, and the depiction on this chart, which is I believe People's exhibit 593, I don't find it to be misleading.
Ito's basis for overruling — his own personal familiarity with the crime scene, an unusual judicial rationale.

Evidence (3)

People's 593
Composite diagram combining Bodziak's to-scale Bundy walkway diagram, a close-up of the caged-in area showing Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson body outlines, and defense photographs
discussed, objection overruled, admitted for use with jury
Informal
Bodziak walkway diagram (previously admitted), used as source for scale and footprint placement in the composite
referenced as foundation for scale
Informal
Crime scene photographs of Ron Goldman's body showing foot placement near stump
cited by Goldberg as foundation for body depiction accuracy

Notable Exchanges (2)

Barry ScheckHank Goldberg
Scheck attempts to pin down exactly what portions of the diagram are to scale, eventually proposing a stipulation that only the Bodziak footprint section is to scale. Goldberg resists, insisting 'everything is to scale' except the bodies, which are based on photographs.
strategic
Hank GoldbergLance A. Ito
Goldberg interrupts Scheck mid-sentence; Ito admonishes him ('don't interrupt his comment'); Goldberg defensively replies 'he was finished.'
tense

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)
Proceeding 7448 • 32 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 28, 1995 📄 Lunch recess
AUG 28, 1995 KRT DvH TD